A question on the lovely Gineadach

dory

Something I've wondered for a long time.

Are there times when a word or two comes after the gineadach that sort of cancels out the gineadach?

For example - around the school = timpeall na scoile
Around the whole school = timpeall na scoile/an scoil ar fad ??

Also - despite the work = in ainneoin na hoibre
despite all this work = in ainneoin na hoibre/an obair seo go léir??

Anyone with any light to shine on this?
GRMA!

Gael

Yes, there are a number of situations where the genitive does not occur due to the noun being qualified by something following it, usually a adjective. But it generally only happens if there is no definite article involved. This usually occurs after ag + verbal noun or after a compound preposition like le haghaidh, os comhair, de bharr etc.

ag déanamh oibre (standard genitive)
ag déanamh obair mhaith (combination of noun + adjective + no definite article means no genitive following 'ag déanamh')

BUT

Ag déanamh na hoibre maithe (presence of definite article means genitive occurs anyway)

Another example with a compound preposition would be:

ar feadh lá fada

BUT

ar feadh an lae fhada



It's usually the case also that verbal nouns will not go into the genitive when part of the above mentioned contructions. For example:

Ag déanamh athrú (rather than the genitive form athraithe)

Ag pleanáil scaipeadh (instead of the genitive, which is scaipthe)

You can read more about this on pages 94 and 95 (Points 3,4 and 5) in the Caighdeán Oifigiúil.

Krusader

Is this changing with the new recommendations for the CO

Gael

I don't know, but I don't think so. It's not a particularly controversial or contentious point of grammar as far as I know and is a natural element of the spoken language. Though I'm open to correction on that.

dory

Thanks for that! I'll have to dig out this caighdeán and read it before bed.