Kick us when we are down -- Ryanair

Acapella

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0908/breaking56.html

I know its technically in Clare, but without a doubt it is going to have a major impact on Limerick people. Paris route gone!! Stansted and Gatwick drastically reduced!! Cannot believe the authorities in charge of the region are allowing such a thing to happen....O'Leary is a muppet the best of time but you can hardly blame him when the DUBLIN AIRPORT AUTHORITY have increased charges in Shannon by 33%.

Sick to my stomach thinking of the future of the Mid-West

highlydebased

Not as drastic as you think- He's getting rid of Paris, cutting one flight off Gatwick and two off Stansted a week. What he didnt mention is Gran Canaria and Lanzarote are back for the winter. Because as he said himself "the aircraft needs somewhere to go"..

Limerick_Lass

It could be worse, IMO these routes aren't going to affect too many travelling.

People were booking flights thinking they were flying into Paris, whereas Beauvais is over 65 miles away!

georgem25

Palma, Malaga, Edinburgh and Nantes are also gone - hopefully back in March but no guarantees!

munstergirl

Don't know why DUBLIN is in charge of shannon airport, all they care about is DUBLIN.

Don't blame ryanair at all, they should let ryanair fly for FREE, and the airport could make money from passengers spending money in shops, cafes. resturants, car parking.

As soon as us soldiers stop flying through shannon, don't think there will be a shannon airport anymore.

Jofspring

If Shannon where to give Ryanair the airport for free they would definitely make up the money if not make more money than adding extra charges to Ryanair. The DAA are just being awkward because they don't care what happens below in Shannon Airport. It must be very disheartening for the few shops that are actually out in the airport knowing passenger numbers are going to drop again.

In saying that i will be happy if the flights to the Canaries are back on. They where full anytime i was on them last year so don't see why they ever stopped.

phog

munstergirl wrote: »

Don't know why DUBLIN is in charge of shannon airport, all they care about is DUBLIN.

Don't blame ryanair at all, they should let ryanair fly for FREE, and the airport could make money from passengers spending money in shops, cafes. resturants, car parking.
As soon as us soldiers stop flying through shannon, don't think there will be a shannon airport anymore.

That's part of the problem, there was a time that you had to be in the airport 2 hours before your flight, once the check-in online and print your own boarding pass came on stream, the waiting time at airport dropped then Rynyair enforced the one bag carry on and the "duty free" gets a wallop too, it must have made it very difficult to make money at airports after that, hardly enough to pay the current landing charges and still make the profit (if any that they are currently making).

I think if he was allowed to land for next to free he'd find something to argue about and find fault with, it's his nature and was to be expected, he has done it if not in all then most of the airports he has used to land his planes.

bazz26

I was out in Shannon airport recently and it was a ghost town. You could actually find a parking space in the long term car park in front of the Departure Terminal. I don't blame Ryan Air, I blame the DAA idots who run the airport and raise the cost for airlines to use it when business is down, and this muppet of a Government who slap a tax of €10 for tourists to fly into it when tourism numbers are down.

I really dread the day when we all will be left with no choice but to drive to Dublin or Cork to fly to all our destinations despite a perfectly good airport on our door step left to decay.

krudler

Or Kerry, which is where I go to fly to Alicante, its only 80 mins drive or so but still, bah.

heyjude

Acapella wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0908/breaking56.html

Cannot believe the authorities in charge of the region are allowing such a thing to happen.....

Just wondering, what could the authorities do to stop such a thing happening, when it seems that even abolishing the travel tax wouldn't seem to be enough to get Ryanair to reconsider.

Dublin Airport are having to fund the new terminal and therefore there is no possibility of a cross subsidy from Dublin(nor should there be) and if Shannon Airport is losing money, what do you propose if you reject the increase in charges at Shannon ? You're are hardly suggesting, with all the financial drains on the government, that they should allow the DAA to run at a loss ?

jbkenn

Shannon Airport has it's own board comprising

Brian O'Connell (Chairman)
Brian O' Connell is Bob the ****ing builder, and obviously knows nothing about about the Airline business, he built the white elephant known as Westpark in Shannon.
Quote from Limerick Leader 12/11/2009
"It is understood that Mr O'Connell had been lobbying for the role of chairman at the SAA in recent weeks and political and industry sources have told the Leader the job is his if he wants it."
Like the dog chasing the car trying to catch the wheel...., well he finally caught it and now he does'nt have a clue what to do with it.
Director's fees €21,600 p.a., also on the board of the D.A.A. for which he collects no fee.

Patrick Blaney
From his website
"Patrick Blaney is the former Chief Executive of GPA Group plc, the Irish based aircraft financing business founded by Dr. Tony Ryan (Ryanair) "
You would think that he might have some relationship with Mickie "no tie" O'Leary and an understanding of his mindset, cut from the same cloth, so to speak.
Director's fees, to his credit, takes no fee

Olivia Loughnane
Shannon Development..., enough said, rest home for the bewildered, living on long past glory
Director's fees €12,600 p.a. on top of Shannon Development Salary

Ray Gray
Chief Financial Officer DAA, now he sure as sh1t ain't going to bite the hand that feeds him.
Director's fees, takes no fee. obviously gets enough of a salary from DAA.

Dr Vincent Cunnane
Shannon Development, see Olivia Loughnane above, refugee from academia, U.L.
Director's fees €12,600 p.a. on top of Shannon Development Salary

Mary Fitzgerald
Woodlands Hotel in Adare, lots of ability in the area of weddings, first communions and Christmas parties.
Director's fees €12,600 p.a.

Mark Nolan
Managing Director, Dromoland Castle, see Mary Fitzgerald above.
Director's fees €12,600 p.a.

Joe Buckley
Worker Director representing IMPACT
From his Linkedin profile
"Airport technical traffic business development & airfreight services development.
Management of Airport terminal operations.
Management of Airport terminal facilities and passenger car park facilities"
Wow, representing the time served arse scratching "workers" in Shannon
Director's fees, no fee.

Audrey Costelloe
Worker Director representing SIPTU, probably representing the "workers" that Joe don't represent.
Director's fees, no fee

Source of Director Fee's
http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2009-12-08.1375.0

So, there you have it, tasked with the responsibility of Shannon Airport and doing a sterling job, worth every penny.

Interestingly, a former Midwest politician sitting on the board of D.A.A. is Gerry "Albert, don't bust up the Party" Collins, uncle, of one of our current crop of Fianna Fail Midwest stalwarts Niall Collins T.D. who inherited his seat.
On top of his €19,579 MEP's pension, a €52,213 Oireachtas pension and a €56,252 ministerial pension, worth a total of €128,044, he gets a Directors fee of €15,750, from D.A.A.

Mickie "no tie" O'Leary, is CEO of one of the biggest and most successful airlines in the world, his duty and responsibility is to his shareholders and board, and nobody else, this he does very well.

Contrast him with the bunch above and you can see why Shannon Airport is going nowhere fast.

Berty

Shannon airport has lost its mind.

The footfall is down in the airport so they double the passenger fee.

It does not take an einstein to work out that to encourage new business you reduce the fees. Its like landlords reducing their rents and offering incentives for people to use their "services".

Acapella

Neon-Circles wrote: »

Not as drastic as you think- He's getting rid of Paris, cutting one flight off Gatwick and two off Stansted a week. What he didnt mention is Gran Canaria and Lanzarote are back for the winter. Because as he said himself "the aircraft needs somewhere to go"..

Because people want to go to Gran Canaria and Lanzarote in the Winter rather than the Summer??! I am not being smart but personally I ain't grateful for Ryanair putting on typically Summer flights in the Winter and downsizing popular routes to major cities ie. London and Paris in the process.

heyjude wrote: »

Just wondering, what could the authorities do to stop such a thing happening, when it seems that even abolishing the travel tax wouldn't seem to be enough to get Ryanair to reconsider.

Dublin Airport are having to fund the new terminal and therefore there is no possibility of a cross subsidy from Dublin(nor should there be) and if Shannon Airport is losing money, what do you propose if you reject the increase in charges at Shannon ? You're are hardly suggesting, with all the financial drains on the government, that they should allow the DAA to run at a loss ?

Its early in the morning so forgive me if I have misunderstood you but are you actually saying they they are justified in increasing the charges so DAA does not run at a loss and therefore aid the funding of the terminal?!?!?!?

I don't expect cross subsidy type payments to Shannon, but there is a def conflict of interests with the DAA over Shannon. In my opinion, flights are going to keep decreasing until people from the West have to go to Dublin and use their new terminal which will of course have a positive effect on Dublins accounts. Once the soldiers stop passing through Shannon, its curtains for the place. Unless of course the apes in charge are proactive in keeping it going.

liammur

Neon-Circles wrote: »

Not as drastic as you think- He's getting rid of Paris, cutting one flight off Gatwick and two off Stansted a week. What he didnt mention is Gran Canaria and Lanzarote are back for the winter. Because as he said himself "the aircraft needs somewhere to go"..

Routes like Gran C & Lanz are not important, as these people never visit Ireland. It's all money out, where as londoners and parisians do travel here, hence hotels etc will feel the pinch.

Unfortunately, Govt policy over the last 13 years here is to simply drive the region into the ground, no investment, and no IDA jobs.

source

It doesn't take a whole load of intelligence to figure out that Ireland and all it's major facilities are run by apes.

The same thing happened when the recession hit, countries all over the world reduced taxes to stimulate spending, Here in Ireland the plan was to tax people so much that they couldn't afford to spend, thereby plunging us deeper into recession.

Same theory applies to Shannon Airport. The numbers are low, so instead of lowering charges and taxes to stimulate business, the decision was taken to raise taxes and charges, putting pressure on those travelling into Shannon, making it more expensive and thereby driving numbers down.......bottom line it's being run by idiots.

DAA having a say in Shannon is a bad thing, so much so that i cannot even adequately protray it in words. DAA built a massive new terminal (which some people, including myself, think was a waste of money). Which they now have to fill, if they don't they operate at a loss. In my mind, screw them, they shouldn't have the ability to take it out on Shannon because they made a bad decision.

On Michael O'Leary, Yes i agree that he is doing nothing for the region, however he has no allegiances to the region, and no reason to pump money into the area. He'll still make his money and keep his shareholders happy. The real villains in this little story are the gov't and the directors of the DAA and the board that "runs" Shannon Airport.

Itsdacraic

O'Leary cuts routes but blames everyone other than himself.
Big shock here.

Henry Ford III

Berty wrote: »

Shannon airport has lost its mind.

The footfall is down in the airport so they double the passenger fee.

It does not take an einstein to work out that to encourage new business you reduce the fees. Its like landlords reducing their rents and offering incentives for people to use their "services".

I agree.

p.s. Einstein's maths would suggest that the fees are increasing by 33% (in itself a huge and unwise move at this time) and not 100% as you suggest.

Berty

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I agree.

p.s. Einstein's maths would suggest that the fees are increasing by 33% (in itself a huge and unwise move at this time) and not 100% as you suggest.

Aye but Im obviously using "Media Hype" Calculations.

Im sure I heard that on Clare FM but content to be incorrect.

grenache

O'Leary does love the sound of his own voice but he is right on this issue. Why should he stand idly by and see his profits from Ryanair's Shannon operation dwindle, as a result of stupid levies. Instead blame the DAA. He is 100% right in calling them morons, they haven't got a clue. Quite why a Dublin based authority is running a West of Ireland airport i'll never know. They'll always put Dublin airport's well-being first and have only a secondary concern for Shannon and Cork.

phill106

So. Who do we talk to, to kick the daa out of managing shannon airport?

Berty

phill106 wrote: »

So. Who do we talk to, to kick the daa out of managing shannon airport?

Find somebody who is willing to buy it off them. Im sure they would be glad to get rid of it.

kippy

Doesnt everyone see what is going on here?

By in large, MOST cities are connected to Dublin now Via motorway links - high speed links.
We live in a relatively small country.
We can only invest SO much into the airports in the country.
We are just after investing 600 odd million (with plans for more to build a second runway) in Dublin airport.
Dublin airport is now accessible via Motorway from most major cities with plans to introduce some kind of light rail system also.
The smaller regional airports ARE going to suffer as a result of all this, especially those run by the DAA.

Increasing charges to stem the flow of loses is a very fundamental mistake but personally I think the deathknell for Shannon was signed years ago and the DAA want as many people as possible using Dublin.
Pain in the hole for those in the West.

munstergirl

kippy wrote: »

Doesnt everyone see what is going on here?

By in large, MOST cities are connected to Dublin now Via motorway links - high speed links.
We live in a relatively small country.
We can only invest SO much into the airports in the country.
We are just after investing 600 odd million (with plans for more to build a second runway) in Dublin airport.
Dublin airport is now accessible via Motorway from most major cities with plans to introduce some kind of light rail system also.
The smaller regional airports ARE going to suffer as a result of all this, especially those run by the DAA.

Increasing charges to stem the flow of loses is a very fundamental mistake but personally I think the deathknell for Shannon was signed years ago and the DAA want as many people as possible using Dublin.
Pain in the hole for those in the West.

Agree 100%, must remember next time booking flight to add in petrol, tolls, hotel if flying early, long term car park. So about €200 extra.

Haven't flown from shannon much in the last year but before that most of the flights i was on from usa/uk were full!

Anyway the way unemployment is going in limerick, the only people flying anywhere will be people emigrating!

kippy

munstergirl wrote: »

Agree 100%, must remember next time booking flight to add in petrol, tolls, hotel if flying early, long term car park. So about €200 extra.

Haven't flown from shannon much in the last year but before that most of the flights i was on from usa/uk were full!

Anyway the way unemployment is going in limerick, the only people flying anywhere will be people emigrating!

Well, there are ways around all of those costs you mention. Services like citylink and gobus, but not sure if they operate from every city.

Most of the flights I have been out of shannon in the past few years have been full, there are however very few flights flying out of shannon, and perhaps the demand just isnt there and now with the charges increasing airlines are less likely to push services from the airport.
We dont REALLY need so many large regional airports in this small country, what we need are ever improving links between cities which is what we are getting and investment into the main airport.
Sad for Shannon and indeed the other airports but these days thats the harsh reality.

Amazotheamazing

kippy wrote: »

Well, there are ways around all of those costs you mention. Services like citylink and gobus, but not sure if they operate from every city.

Most of the flights I have been out of shannon in the past few years have been full, there are however very few flights flying out of shannon, and perhaps the demand just isnt there and now with the charges increasing airlines are less likely to push services from the airport.
We dont REALLY need so many large regional airports in this small country, what we need are ever improving links between cities which is what we are getting and investment into the main airport.
Sad for Shannon and indeed the other airports but these days thats the harsh reality.

Shannon and maybe Knock are more likely to survive than Kerry, Galway and Sligo imo, it has the facilities and when the new bypass opens will be very close to Galway.

bazz26

Shannon Airport does have a better road network than the likes of Kerry or Knock. It's location and surrounding terrain is also ideal for aviation training exercises by private and commerical airlines.

I remember as a child being brought out to the road at the back of the main runway to watch the Air France Concorde caring out pilot training excersises. Watching the Concorde doing touch and go runs was a great sight to watch on a Sunday afternoon.

kippy

Re: the last two posts.
I agree, however that doesnt appear to be what is happening or what is planned.
Shannon has been on the wan and this fee increase is a serious problem.
Perhaps if the DAA weren't calling the shots it may have a chance. What should be happening is a reduction in fees in the airport.
It is pretty obvious however where the DAA's priorities lay however.

Henry Ford III

Costs should be slashed in Shannon. Primarily wages unfortunately.

L.T.P.

Michael O'Leary runs a BUSINESS. If prices go up making some routes unprofitable he cancels them. Simple mathematics. No room for sentiment in business.

source

L.T.P. wrote: »

Michael O'Leary runs a BUSINESS. If prices go up making some routes unprofitable he cancels them. Simple mathematics. No room for sentiment in business.

Exactly, This is why he has the most profitable airline in Europe. While we see it as being insensitive to the needs of the customer, he is looking after his shareholders. As i said earlier, he owes us nothing, we pay him....he provides a service, that's where the link ends.

I'm sure he would love to be able to fly loads of routes from all Irish airports. But the DAA and Gov't are pricing him out of the market. He's not running a Gov't subsidised airline, so he won't provide loss making routes like Bus Eireann and Irish Rail do.

So while yes it is very inconvenient, for all of us here in the midwest. I really don't blame him for making the moves he is making. He is in business to make money not friends.

kilburn

At the end of the day, DAA has massive debt and someone has to pay for terminal 2.
There are far to many airports in the country with the road network we will soon have Dublin, Cork, Shannon and Knock are more than enough. Kerry, Waterford and Donegal are just a waste of money.
Look at Berlin they have 3 airports and are closing 2 of them.

Kess73

kilburn wrote: »

At the end of the day, DAA has massive debt and someone has to pay for terminal 2.
There are far to many airports in the country with the road network we will soon have Dublin, Cork, Shannon and Knock are more than enough. Kerry, Waterford and Donegal are just a waste of money.
Look at Berlin they have 3 airports and are closing 2 of them.

I agree about Donegal and Waterford, but I think a solid arguement could be made for keeping Kerry Airport, based on the fact that a number of new all year routes were taken up by the airport this year, including Manchester and Dusseldorf, and a number of summer routes also came online there this year. They have also tied in with a number of tour operators to fly chartered flights direct to there. It also has the advantage of have a working railway station beside it. (I do love having rail options beside airports )

I would love to see the same kind of drive, ambition, and sheer brass neck being shown by the powers that be in Shannon Airport to be honest. I know the guys at Kerry Airport run it as the PLC that it is, but if it is bringing in more money than it is costing, then I think it should stay.

Basil Sheerin and the rest of the team at Kerry airport have done a really good job in recent years there in promoting the airport and getting it to make a profit.

kilburn

Ya true its making money at the cost of Shannon. Three airports beside each other Cork, Kerry and Shannon aint feasible in any ones terms.

liammur

foinse wrote: »

Exactly, This is why he has the most profitable airline in Europe. While we see it as being insensitive to the needs of the customer, he is looking after his shareholders. As i said earlier, he owes us nothing, we pay him....he provides a service, that's where the link ends.

I'm sure he would love to be able to fly loads of routes from all Irish airports. But the DAA and Gov't are pricing him out of the market. He's not running a Gov't subsidised airline, so he won't provide loss making routes like Bus Eireann and Irish Rail do.

So while yes it is very inconvenient, for all of us here in the midwest. I really don't blame him for making the moves he is making. He is in business to make money not friends.

Correct, but o leary is taking things to extremes, e,g, 1 pilot.
He also is bullying airports in a similar fashion to the way tescos etc bully small producers while at the same time he is taking plenty of subsidies (which he conviently keeps quiet about).
He was also very quick to move engineering jobs to prestwick so i'm not sure he has much time for the country, as he said himself, he'd be living abroad were it not for the cheap corporation tax.

Kess73

kilburn wrote: »

Ya true its making money at the cost of Shannon. Three airports beside each other Cork, Kerry and Shannon aint feasible in any ones terms.

Not really. It's biggest money spinners are routes and ideas that Shannon airport either dropped or never did in the first place.

The idea to tie in with the tour operators in such a detailed manner is the type of obvious idea that the brains in Shannon would turn their noses up at. Yet it is working very well.


Kerry does a steady 150,000 to 200,000 passengers a year, so that kind of figure would not make or break Shannon at all, as Shannon still does over 2 million passengers a year, a fair drop on it's peak alright. Shannon Airport in the recent past, through self inflicted means or by external means, has lost carriers who each brought bigger passenger numbers to Shannon than Kerry could ever hope to do in any given year with all it's routes and carriers combined.


For my money, Shannon, Kerry, and Cork should be able to co- exist if all were run in a proper manner.

Also, and this is just my opinion, if Shannon Airport was as well organised and as well run in a business sense as Kerry airport is at present, then it would be Cork airport that would be worried now and not Shannon airport.

liammur

Kess73 wrote: »

Shannon still does over 2 million passengers a year, a fair drop on it's peak alright.
.

Shannon has a huge problem coming down the line. It's biggest customer by a mile is the US army, there will be a massive fall off in this soon, so that 2m figure is grossly inflated.

highlydebased

liammur wrote: »

Shannon has a huge problem coming down the line. It's biggest customer by a mile is the US army, there will be a massive fall off in this soon, so that 2m figure is grossly inflated.

As far as I know military transits are not included? (I could be wrong)

Kess73

liammur wrote: »

Shannon has a huge problem coming down the line. It's biggest customer by a mile is the US army, there will be a massive fall off in this soon, so that 2m figure is grossly inflated.

Yeah the military numbers will be a massive blow when they finally stop.

At present the 2 million figure is not inflated though as that is what is passing through the airport over the last few years. It would be just as easy to big any carrier in Shannon and say that Shannon's figures were inflated by X amount because of that carrier.

I think when the day does come that the military stop using it, then some scary figures will come out that will show up those running the airport and those that are supposed to be driving it as a joke. I don't think that most people realise how big a number the US army makes up for Shannon in terms of passenger numbers.

Grizzly 45

kippy wrote: »

Well, there are ways around all of those costs you mention. Services like citylink and gobus, but not sure if they operate from every city.

You ever used them??They are a fukkin JOKE!! One collects passengers from Shannon and Limerick to Dublin and drops them off in Dublin airport.BUT doesnt RETURN to drop said passengers off in Limerick or Shannon on the return leg.IOW.Yeah they get you up there ,but not back!!!
The other one advertises having internet and broadband etc on its busses.Good job too that they do! They are so slow and stop off at every milk churn for 20 mins.I thought I was going to die of old age before I got home!!!
It took me six hours to get from Dublin airport to Shannon airportonce.After a flight from Rome to Dublin which took exactly 2.5 hours on Ryanair.Say what you like about Ryanair,but they are punctual,if not early.All in all we have a disasterous centralised transport policy in Ireland with everything going to "Doblin".Well and good,but there is no proper modern infrastructure to get you there to the airport to get off this Rock!
In Europe,I can get on a train and be within a half hour in Dublin airport in distance from Limerick.Every half hour!! Here it is once or twice a day,with a convient side show of bus,taxi,Luas to get across Dublin to the airport.
No one in Europe has to put up with this sort of mess.

We dont REALLY need so many large regional airports in this small country, what we need are ever improving links between cities which is what we are getting and investment into the main airport.

What we REALLY need is a small domestic airline that can ferry us from a perfectly good airport to any other main airport [IE Dublin or Cork] to catch a flight to get us out of here,with the least hassle and a fairly regular service,and within a timeframe that allows you plenty of time to check in ,go thru the security strip show etc.This does not even need a fixed wing aircraft,large helicopters would be ideal,and be less costly in landing fees.The idea of the seaplanes which is being tried would be ideal as all our major towns are costal,or river based.That should be encourged more.




Sad for Shannon and indeed the other airports but these days thats the harsh reality.[/QUOTE]

zuroph

The DAA are deliberately killing Shannon off. They can't close it publically, so they'll let it wither and die, and blame the recession.

KevR

I know this is the Limerick forum but City Link have announced that they are stopping their Galway-Shannon bus services. A few more jobs lost. This is a knock on effect of Ryanair cutting Shannon flights; Ryanair did this because the government decided to introduce a travel tax and the airports decided to increase landing charges during the worst recession in living memory.

It's a pity because the new section of M18 will soon be open (bypassing Gort and Crusheen) which would have made Galway-Shannon journeys a lot quicker and more pleasant.

http://www.citylink.ie/serviceupdates.php

Acapella

Came across this online petition in recent days...

http://www.giveshannonwings.com/index.php

If people could sign it and forward onto friends to do the same. May help but either way it takes a few seconds to do and will give weight to citizens arguments.

All the Best,

Acapella

liammur

KevR wrote: »

I know this is the Limerick forum but City Link have announced that they are stopping their Galway-Shannon bus services. A few more jobs lost. This is a knock on effect of Ryanair cutting Shannon flights; Ryanair did this because the government decided to introduce a travel tax and the airports decided to increase landing charges during the worst recession in living memory.

It's a pity because the new section of M18 will soon be open (bypassing Gort and Crusheen) which would have made Galway-Shannon journeys a lot quicker and more pleasant.

http://www.citylink.ie/serviceupdates.php

That's a shame.
One thing I notice about shannon when I arrive in is if someone doesn't hire a car, I don't know how they'll get out of the place - seeing as a lot of the flights get in at around 11:30 pm

zuroph

simply, when the door to door campaigners are about, I'm telling them i'm not voting for any of them until they make a stand to get shannon out from under DAA.

phill106

zuroph wrote: »

simply, when the door to door campaigners are about, I'm telling them i'm not voting for any of them until they make a stand to get shannon out from under DAA.

I am going to do exactly that. I may have a form nearby for them to sign, just so they cant forget about it after too.