Burn A Koran Day

Fanny Cradock

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11223457

I'm sure that most people have heard about this planned stunt by now.

It appears that the surge of anti-Muslim sentiment which followed in the slipstream of the planes that crashed into the Twin Towers is enjoying a resurgence amongst a certain demographic - fearful, white, middle-aged, middle-classed Christians who vote Republican, buy American and place American Flags outside outside their house. They are a scary mix of religion and politics. Of course, the "Christian" label is something that I don't necessarily agree with. As one writer with Patrol Magazine put it:

This national religion-which-is-not-Christianity, has been a long time in the making. It is the religion of “God Bless America” and of the belief that the founding fathers intended the United States to be a “Christian nation.” It is the God of our currency, Pledge of Allegiance, and ultimately our exceptionalism. Certainly it bears a likeness to Christianity but it differs in its priorities. It doesn’t “seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness,” rather it seeks first the kingdom of America. There is no denying that at times these things can align, but where they diverge, this civic religion chooses the latter.

If this nonsense goes ahead I'll be out buying a translation of the Koran (which I have been meaning to do anyway) and reading it. Something these people have probably never managed to do.

PDN

Rednecks really are depressing.

This was featured on Eamon Keane's "Lunchtime" on Newstalk today. He interview an American evangelical woman (whom I would have serious misgivings about as regards other areas not covered by the show - but that's another story). It was really quite funny as he obviously wanted her to come out with some outrageous statement that would justify his stereotypes. Instead she condemned the Quran-burning stunt and said that such an approach was unhelpful, and that Christians should display love and tolerance.

Eamon, evidently not impressed with his plan being thwarted, kept asking her, "But what do you think of the Quran? Do you think it is evil? Do you think it is false?"

She answered very well and very fairly, that the Quran is not for her, as a Christian she prefers the Bible, but that others say they are helped by the Quran. When further pressed by an increasingly frustrated Eamon Keane, she said that she personally couldn't accept the parts of the Quran that urged violence against non-Muslims, but that she would never condone the burning of the book.

Interestingly, the interview was followed by a number of bitter and angry texts demanding why Eamon would have an evangelical on his show since she must, by definition, be a bigot and a moron. One texter even advocating burning all the churches in Ireland for being intolerant - the irony is terrific!

TravelJunkie

If anyone is advocating burning a Koran and proclaim to be a christian then they seriously need to examine themselves and ask, is Jesus in me? Am I living in his ways? Because He wouldn't be burning any books. He commanded us to Love our Neighbour.

Other Christians, more in touch with what it means to be a Christian, in the USA should be campaigning against this.

PDN

TravelJunkie wrote: »

Other Christians, more in touch with what it means to be a Christian, in the USA should be campaigning against this.

They are (even though it might not suit the agenda of British and Irish media outlets to report it). I've received a tweets from Rick Warren saying
"Bookburning is cowardly act by those afraid their beliefs aren't strong enough to attract if people are allowed a choice".

Also the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE) is calling on the Dove World Outreach Center to cancel their Quran-burning event.

"The NAE calls on its members to cultivate relationships of trust and respect with our neighbors of other faiths," it said in a statement. "God created human beings in his image, and therefore all should be treated with dignity and respect.'

The group carrying out the Quran burning is a very small (50 members) independent group who speak for nobody but themselves.

caseyann

Its just a book chill out people not a person.
Thats when i get really annoyed people up in arms about stuff like this who cares bible what ever burn them doesnt hurt me.And completely silly to be protesting.If they went out there and burned a whole load of bibles i wouldnt care.

af_thefragile

But organiser, Pastor Terry Jones said: "We must send a clear message to the radical element of Islam."

That is nothing but a message of war.
"You attacked the twin towers, I'll attack your religion, lets see who wins".

Anyway, the people who are involved in the burning are probably quite small, I just hope the middle-east and the muslim world doesn't respond to this in another stupid rage infuriated way.

Kinda ironic Quran speaks of many Abrahamic prophets quite extensively and so wouldn't burning it be disrespectful to themselves? Though many such people believe the Quran is the work of the devil...

HurlyBurly

af_thefragile wrote: »

I just hope the middle-east and the muslim world doesn't respond to this in another stupid rage infuriated way.

Why should we have to worry about that. If it was the other way round we'd just be shrugging our shoulders.
But no, we bend over backwards trying not to antagonise or upset the muslims of the world - something seriously wrong there.

Obviously fundementalist christians like these Yanks are just as bad but the heart of the matter is that there are inescapable radical differences between western christian world and the muslim world and it will lead to all out war eventually.

PDN

HurlyBurly wrote: »

Why should we have to worry about that.

Because innocent people get hurt. Nuns get murdered. Minority Christian groups in the Middle East get targeted.

Fanny Cradock

caseyann wrote: »

Its just a book chill out people not a person.
Thats when i get really annoyed people up in arms about stuff like this who cares bible what ever burn them doesnt hurt me.And completely silly to be protesting.If they went out there and burned a whole load of bibles i wouldnt care.

But it doesn't work like that and it never has. Do you not remember the deaths that followed in the wake of the news that a Koran was flushed down a toilet? That it later transpired that this story was a fabrication is neither here nor there. We all understand the weight of symbolism and there is absolutely nothing positive to be gained from book burning, especially when you know that you are going to send people into furious anger.

This idiot wont just be burning books, he'll be stoking fires of hatred. There are more than enough people out there looking for reasons to despise America and this cretin has already gift warped a real whopper even before he has set a page alight.

@ PDN, I think I was listening to the same interview. Was it on Newstalk? I though she was doing OK on the whole "peace and love" thing until she admitted that she hadn't read the Koran and would not advise people to do so. I think a little more knowledge and a little more diplomacy will stand her in good stead.

af_thefragile

HurlyBurly wrote: »

Why should we have to worry about that. If it was the other way round we'd just be shrugging our shoulders.
But no, we bend over backwards trying not to antagonise or upset the muslims of the world - something seriously wrong there.

Obviously fundementalist christians like these Yanks are just as bad but the heart of the matter is that there are inescapable radical differences between western christian world and the muslim world and it will lead to all out war eventually.

The muslim world has always been perceived by the christian world as the enemy and vice versa. Its probably the longest clash of civilisations going on through history. Though now this has become more of a crash of civilisations.
The western world is no longer christian as it used to be while the muslim world is split into moderate muslims who want to be left alone and extremist muslims who want to wage war.

And due to globalisation it can be said there is not as much ignorance about the other faith as there used to be in the past. It is really difficult to predict the future this way.

There is a large and rapidly growing muslim population in the west while the christian population is decreasing. A war in such a situation looks highly unlikely and if it is to break out, it would be devastating.

The only way forward is to respect the differences and accept we live in a global world now where the "us vs. them" ideology will not world and we need to learn to live together accepting our differences.

Overature

As far as i know there is only one church that are planning on doing this. but even still it could drag all of the christian churches down with it. its like poring petrol on a fire.

on the rte news, the paster in charge of the church said it was a good way to send a message to the extremist Muslims. those same extremist send messages which include flying planes into sky scrapers.

its a stupid stupid idea

caseyann

PDN wrote: »

Because innocent people get hurt. Nuns get murdered. Minority Christian groups in the Middle East get targeted.

How very peaceful of them.over paper.Those who have to praise a book praise word of man not god.

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

But it doesn't work like that and it never has. Do you not remember the deaths that followed in the wake of the news that a Koran was flushed down a toilet? That it later transpired that this story was a fabrication is neither here nor there. We all understand the weight of symbolism and there is absolutely nothing positive to be gained from book burning, especially when you know that you are going to send people into furious anger.

This idiot wont just be burning books, he'll be stoking fires of hatred. There are more than enough people out there looking for reasons to despise America and this cretin has already gift warped a real whopper even before he has set a page alight.

@ PDN, I think I was listening to the same interview. Was it on Newstalk? I though she was doing OK on the whole "peace and love" thing until she admitted that she hadn't read the Koran and would not advise people to do so. I think a little more knowledge and a little more diplomacy will stand her in good stead.

Funny plenty of Muslims i know just call it dumb and unnecessary and childish but wont be out storming the streets over a book of paper,Because they are actually spiritual about their religion and burning a book isnt going to upset or insult them.
Same as if they burned a whole load of bibles none of us would be out on streets killing Muslims and threatening them with death.

PDN

caseyann wrote: »

How very peaceful of them.over paper.Those who have to praise a book praise word of man not god

Well I don't think anyone here is arguing that all Muslims are peaceful, are they?

caseyann

PDN wrote: »

Well I don't think anyone here is arguing that all Muslims are peaceful, are they?

I didnt say you did,made a comment in relation to what you said.
They would argue they are while other hand sword chopping off heads and we in the west are the evil ones.:D

Ush1

caseyann wrote: »

I didnt say you did,made a comment in relation to what you said.
They would argue they are while other hand sword chopping off heads and we in the west are the evil ones.:D

No, in the west we prefer the possibly more painful methods of execution such as electrocution and lethal injection. But hey, nice stereotyping anyway!

caseyann

Ush1 wrote: »

No, in the west we prefer the possibly more painful methods of execution such as electrocution and lethal injection. But hey, nice stereotyping anyway!

What has that anything to do with what i said
I said they call themselves peaceful and then chop a head off of some innocent who happened to be there. And far away from the head chopping off and stoning etc... for merely not been in under control.Compared to people murdering others and having their lives taken for it.
And again my husband is Muslim and is anti any of those who threaten violence in relation to some idiot burning a book.


http://www.speroforum.com/a/36991/Pakistan-Muslim-marauders-target-Christians

As the sun set – the priest told Fides– “a mob of about 2,000 armed Islamic militants launched an attack on the Christian district of Waris pura. The mob was out of control, shops and streets were devastated, there was shooting, looting and torching. Some Christian were hurt, but the outcome could have been much worse ”.
Yesterday was a tragic day for Christians in Faisalabad: two brothers Rashid and Sajid Emmanuel, born to Catholic parents, charged with blasphemy, arrested, tried and then finally acquitted, were barbarously murdered as they left Faisalabad law courts escorted by police officers as free innocent men. Armed men attacked the group killing the two brothers and also wounded one of the accompanying police officers.

Fanny Cradock

caseyann wrote: »

Funny plenty of Muslims i know just call it dumb and unnecessary and childish but wont be out storming the streets over a book of paper,Because they are actually spiritual about their religion and burning a book isnt going to upset or insult them.

Good for these people you know. But this Pastor isn't burning the Koran to rile them. He is doing it to piss of Muslims in the Middle East who dared to attack America - those who are probably as nastily fervent as himself. The silly fool probably wants a Christian (lead by the US, of course) Muslim war. It's nothing more than imperialist crap.

caseyann

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Good for these people you know. But this Pastor isn't burning the Koran to rile them. He is doing it to piss of Muslims in the Middle East who dared to attack America - those who are probably as nastily fervent as himself. The silly fool probably wants a Christian (lead by the US, of course) Muslim war. It's nothing more than imperialist crap.

Let him do it,turn other cheek and get on with their own lives.Easy done.

Fanny Cradock

caseyann wrote: »

Let him do it,turn other cheek and get on with their own lives.Easy done.

It's not easily done. And some people aren't interested in attempting it. That is the point.

Ush1

caseyann wrote: »

What has that anything to do with what i said
I said they call themselves peaceful and then chop a head off of some innocent who happened to be there. And far away from the head chopping off and stoning etc... for merely not been in under control.Compared to people murdering others and having their lives taken for it.
And again my husband is Muslim and is anti any of those who threaten violence in relation to some idiot burning a book.

Yes there are violent Muslims, there are violent numbers in most religions.

caseyann wrote: »

http://www.speroforum.com/a/36991/Pakistan-Muslim-marauders-target-Christians

As the sun set – the priest told Fides– “a mob of about 2,000 armed Islamic militants launched an attack on the Christian district of Waris pura. The mob was out of control, shops and streets were devastated, there was shooting, looting and torching. Some Christian were hurt, but the outcome could have been much worse ”.
Yesterday was a tragic day for Christians in Faisalabad: two brothers Rashid and Sajid Emmanuel, born to Catholic parents, charged with blasphemy, arrested, tried and then finally acquitted, were barbarously murdered as they left Faisalabad law courts escorted by police officers as free innocent men. Armed men attacked the group killing the two brothers and also wounded one of the accompanying police officers.

caseyann

Ush1 wrote: »

Yes there are violent Muslims, there are violent numbers in most religions.

Their attack on Christians was called for calm and peace and forgivness and so should there be about the Qur'an been burned.It is just a book.

onlyrocknroll

caseyann wrote: »

Its just a book chill out people not a person.
Thats when i get really annoyed people up in arms about stuff like this who cares bible what ever burn them doesnt hurt me.And completely silly to be protesting.If they went out there and burned a whole load of bibles i wouldnt care.

Have to say that's an unbelievable naive view. Heinirch Heine said of the Spanish Inquisition that "Where they burn books, so too will they in the end burn human beings."

When the Nazis began burning books, many critics of the Nazis repeated Heine's warning, and that was very prophetic. Speaking from historic precedent, the link between book burning and violence is very real.

Book burning displays not just hatred and intolerance, but an open attack on reason and argument. How do you reason with people who have decided to make a point of symbolically destroying the views of others.

Ush1

caseyann wrote: »

Their attack on Christians was called for calm and peace and forgivness and so should there be about the Qur'an been burned.It is just a book.

Not sure I understand most of that post.
If it was just a book, this wouldn't be news story. It's clearly a symbol of Islam and an inciteful act.

caseyann

onlyrocknroll wrote: »

Have to say that's an unbelievable naive view. Heinirch Heine said of the Spanish Inquisition that "Where they burn books, so too will they in the end burn human beings."

When the Nazis began burning books, many critics of the Nazis repeated Heine's warning, and that was very prophetic. Speaking from historic precedent, the link between book burning and violence is very real.

Book burning displays not just hatred and intolerance, but an open attack on reason and argument. How do you reason with people who have decided to make a point of symbolically destroying the views of others.

Em same as i showed above of the people who called for calm and forgiveness when 2 thousand of Muslims marched and attacked a Christian community.And that was people and homes they attacked.Not a book.
It is a small protest of a few oddballs burning a book and yous are letting it freak you out,because people will start killing people over it.Somehow doesnt weigh up.

caseyann

Ush1 wrote: »

Not sure I understand most of that post.
If it was just a book, this wouldn't be news story. It's clearly a symbol of Islam and an inciteful act.

Oh yes it would

af_thefragile

caseyann wrote: »

What has that anything to do with what i said
I said they call themselves peaceful and then chop a head off of some innocent who happened to be there. And far away from the head chopping off and stoning etc... for merely not been in under control.Compared to people murdering others and having their lives taken for it.
And again my husband is Muslim and is anti any of those who threaten violence in relation to some idiot burning a book.


http://www.speroforum.com/a/36991/Pakistan-Muslim-marauders-target-Christians

As the sun set – the priest told Fides– “a mob of about 2,000 armed Islamic militants launched an attack on the Christian district of Waris pura. The mob was out of control, shops and streets were devastated, there was shooting, looting and torching. Some Christian were hurt, but the outcome could have been much worse ”.
Yesterday was a tragic day for Christians in Faisalabad: two brothers Rashid and Sajid Emmanuel, born to Catholic parents, charged with blasphemy, arrested, tried and then finally acquitted, were barbarously murdered as they left Faisalabad law courts escorted by police officers as free innocent men. Armed men attacked the group killing the two brothers and also wounded one of the accompanying police officers.

Firstly, muslims don't chop off innocent people's head and or stone people. Its the extremists (who are just like the nutjob christians if not worse) or people following cultural customs.

Secondly why didn't I hear about that story on any news channel?
I really wouldn't believe anything on some obscure internet website.
And a lot of **** goes on in pakistan anyway which isn't Islamic.


It is not the burning of the book which is going to be insulting to many muslims, it's the act of disrespecting their religion which is going to trouble them.

If I took one of your most prised possession, something you deeply love and/or believe in and burned it in public while making a flamboyant display of it, would you feel happy about it?

Fanny Cradock

Ush1 wrote: »

It's clearly a symbol of Islam and an inciteful act.

The Koran isn't just a symbol of Islam, it is seen as the revelation of God. I think that Muslims have ever right to be outraged.

Ush1

caseyann wrote: »

Oh yes it would

I burnt some old bank statements the other day, strange it didn't make international news if that's the case.

Ush1

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

The Koran isn't just a symbol of Islam, it is seen as the revelation of God. I think that Muslims have ever right to be outraged.

This pastor clearly doesn't see it as they do.

af_thefragile

Ush1 wrote: »

This pastor clearly doesn't see it as they do.

He probably sees it as "a lie from the pit of hell":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPJ9GqwJH34

Ush1

af_thefragile wrote: »

He probably sees it as "a lie from the pit of hell":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPJ9GqwJH34

:pac:
That's a fairly funny clip. Nothing extreme about that Reverend!

caseyann

af_thefragile wrote: »

Firstly, muslims don't chop off innocent people's head and or stone people. Its the extremists (who are just like the nutjob christians if not worse) or people following cultural customs.

Secondly why didn't I hear about that story on any news channel?
I really wouldn't believe anything on some obscure internet website.
And a lot of **** goes on in pakistan anyway which isn't Islamic.


It is not the burning of the book which is going to be insulting to many muslims, it's the act of disrespecting their religion which is going to trouble them.

If I took one of your most prised possession, something you deeply love and/or believe in and burned it in public while making a flamboyant display of it, would you feel happy about it?

While i agree they are extremists nutjobs.
To deeply love a book of scribbles that is not real and take it personal when not removed from your own personal house and a copyright printed by some hungry money book company.I would i am sorry laugh.
It is not disrespectful it is plain childish and for them to retaliate by killing people i am sorry no sympathy if they do.
If you touched one hair on my families head i would not be happy or pictures of my lost family members through death i would not be happy.Anything else in my house or anything i have as prised position is nothing more than a item.

caseyann

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

It's not easily done. And some people aren't interested in attempting it. That is the point.

This is the problem therefore idiotic over a book.

caseyann

Ush1 wrote: »

This pastor clearly doesn't see it as they do.

Tell them to burn a few of his books back then

lmaopml

caseyann wrote: »

Its just a book chill out people not a person.
Thats when i get really annoyed people up in arms about stuff like this who cares bible what ever burn them doesnt hurt me.And completely silly to be protesting.If they went out there and burned a whole load of bibles i wouldnt care.

Caseyann, people are not 'up in arms' over it...they are simply publicly distancing themselves from the pastor. Unfortunately, the pastor got news coverage for his stunt of burning the Qur'an on the anniversary of 9/11 - and in this day and age, and these times of real political tension, it is only right and proper that people respond in kind, through the media outlet to seperate themselves and say, 'As a Christian, not in my name, this pastor doesn't represent me..'

It would be worse if prominent Christian figures in the States were asked to respond and they just shrugged their shoulders and said, 'A sure it's just a book, not a person ye know, so no harm no foul lads, gather round and warm yer hands up, Alleluia'

In the real world there are fundamentalists to deal with....and more than a few idiots like the Pastor in question..

caseyann

lmaopml wrote: »

Caseyann, people are not 'up in arms' over it...they are simply publicly distancing themselves from the pastor. Unfortunately, the pastor got news coverage for his stunt of burning the Qur'an on the anniversary of 9/11 - and in this day and age, and these times of real political tension, it is only right and proper that people respond in kind, through the media outlet to seperate themselves and say, 'As a Christian, not in my name, this pastor doesn't represent me..'

It would be worse if prominent Christian figures in the States were asked to respond and they just shrugged their shoulders and said, 'A sure it's just a book, not a person ye know, so no harm no foul lads, gather round and warm yer hands up, Alleluia'

In the real world their are fundamentalists to deal with....and more than a few idiots like the Pastor in question..

Meaning fear of attack in revenge up in arms lmaopml not the latter sorry should have been more clear.
If they had a march of protest all Muslims in streets and say get lost the majority against the minority.Why hasnt that happened?
Westerners do for them.

LevelSpirit

I hope this idiot is prepared to live the rest of his life like Salman Rushdie.
He's probably too thick to realize what hes about to do to himself.

af_thefragile

caseyann wrote: »

While i agree they are extremists nutjobs.
To deeply love a book of scribbles that is not real and take it personal when not removed from your own personal house and a copyright printed by some hungry money book company.I would i am sorry laugh.
It is not disrespectful it is plain childish and for them to retaliate by killing people i am sorry no sympathy if they do.
If you touched one hair on my families head i would not be happy or pictures of my lost family members through death i would not be happy.Anything else in my house or anything i have as prised position is nothing more than a item.

To muslims the Quran is not just a book of scribbles copyright printed by a book company, its the word of God.

Those last words have very deep implications in the muslim world. Its like the single most precious thing for them.

And the only muslims who'ld be doing any killing will be those nutjobs mentioned earlier. They'ld be killing people anyway with or without religion. Some people are innately screwed up, some are lost.

lmaopml

caseyann wrote: »

Meaning fear of attack in revenge up in arms lmaopml not the latter sorry should have been more clear.
If they had a march of protest all Muslims in streets and say get lost the majority against the minority.Why hasnt that happened?
Westerners do for them.

Sorry caseyann. I would imagine if there were ever any major attacks it would have very little to do with the Pastor in question, and more to do with other political motivations...like what happened almost a decade ago. Lord rest their souls.

The Christians who are more Christian in spirit, and less politically fuelled recognise this and are just lending their voice as Christians through the media outlet in an attempt to seperate the Spirit of Christianity being used as a 'badge' or 'flag' by the pastor himself..

They have every right to do so, and my belief is that the only person the pastor is highlighting is himself as a bigot..and a bit of an idiot to boot..

purple_hatstand

Ush1 wrote: »

:pac:
That's a fairly funny clip. Nothing extreme about that Reverend!

It would be funny alright were he isolated in his opinions. Unfortunately, views like this are becoming more widespread in the USA among so-called Christians.

@PDN - Eamon Keane has not presented the 'Lunchtime' show on Newstalk for several months. Declan Kybert (sp?) is the new/current presenter.

PDN

purple_hatstand wrote: »

@PDN - Eamon Keane has not presented the 'Lunchtime' show on Newstalk for several months. Declan Kybert (sp?) is the new/current presenter.

Is that who it was? Ah well, at least he read out my text.

Fanny Cradock

There was a really interesting debate on Newsnight tonight between a Catholic theologian and Peter Thatchel about how far freedom of speech (in this case speech was burning the Koran) should go the actions of people like Terry Jones could endanger life. Both were scathing of Jones.

Before the debate they had a video short detailing the whole mess of a story. It finished with a shot of the good Pastor sitting at his desk typing away . To the left of his keyboard rested a Glock. WWJD?

Sorry, no links.

PDN wrote: »

Is that who it was? Ah well, at least he read out my text.

I take it you weren't the guy calling for all religious buildings to be demolished? (Maybe that was on Today FM?)

JimiTime

I think its obvious that we all think this guy is a (insert desired derision here). However, if I was a muslim, I would be more concerned with the implications of the furore.

Basically, the fact that the newsagencies want to report it, and many are saying their may be a violent backlash etc makes a statement about what many think is going on in Islam. Muslims have a real PR issue going on with this kind of stuff. While its great that most people condemn the idiocy of this pastor, some of the reasoning against it (Such as it could invoke violence) would be more offensive if I was a muslim. It would make me think of the impression that many non-muslims have of the religion.

I used to work with a very strict muslim, really sound bloke who would always be up for a bit of religion talk . He used to lament the impression people had of muslims since 9/11. His words were, 'Those murderers hijacked more than planes that day, they hijacked my religion'.

The unfortunate thing, is that these murderous types announced themselves to the world that day, and all their publicity has upped their profile, and no matter the context in which they are condemned etc, there are certain people that will be attracted to such groups. So even their 'bad' publicity is good publicity for them. Its like the whole gang culture thing. We can pontificate, and show again and again how awful such things are, but some people are attracted to it. Its why some people can look at a gangter flick and say it promotes or glamourises violence etc, while another can say, 'What are you talking about, it shows the horror of it all.' The fact is, they're both right. Depending on the audience member, it can encourage or discourage such behaviour. One person see's the evil, the pain, the misery. Another may see the fear/respect, the easy money, the glamour.

I personally wish they just ignored this publicity seeking runt, but no, they probably hope there will be some embassy burned down because of it and sell more papers/ad space etc.
Ahh the media. Another example of a potentially honourable and great thing for people, abused and turned into a steaming pile.(I'm thinking the trade union movement as a parallel):rolleyes:

Soul Winner

Maybe the whole point of the stunt is to get a really bad reaction from the Muslims just so that they can be further marginalized in their society. Smart Muslims won't react in the way that these guys obviously want them to.

PDN

Soul Winner wrote: »

Smart Muslims won't react in the way that these guys obviously want them to.

Unfortunately it appears that smart Muslims are in short supply in places like Afghanistan.

I just can't even begin to comprehend the thought processes of someone who says, "If one tiny group of people in America burn a Quran, even though their government condemns it, then that means the entire Western world is against us, and justifies the killing of aid workers from entirely different countries and continents who are trying to help us." Yet that was the consistent message coming from Afghan interviewees on the media last night.

It really made me despair of any reasonable future for that part of the world.

old_aussie

Burn A Koran Day, that's pretty close, it's actually International Burn A Koran Day, see link below.

http://www.news.com.au/world/us-pastor-terry-jones-promises-to-hold-koran-burning/story-e6frfkyi-1225915614362

Terry is just sending a message....

Pastor Jones, who heads the Dove World Outreach Centre in the town of Gainesville, said the burning would take place to mark the September 11 terror attacks and would send a message to Muslim extremists.

"We are taking the general's words very serious," he said before noting he had "firmly made up his mind" to go ahead with burning the Muslim holy book".

"I mean, how long, when does America stand for truth?" he asked..

"Instead of us being blamed for what other people will do or might do, why don't we send a warning to them?

"Why don't we send a warning to radical Islam and say, don't do it. If you attack us, if you attack us, we will attack you," he said.

twinQuins

I suppose you'll beat up a few Muslims for good measure too, yes?

mehfesto

Personally, I'm blaming the media for this one.

A pastor with a congregation of about 50 people, who lets face it is obvious a bit deranged, says he's going to burn a Qur'an and rather than leave him be like the biggot he is - they give him *international* news coverage.

There are idiots like this everywhere, spouting the same nonsense, but they don't get air-time, because it's not news. It's biggotry. The only reason he's getting coverage because of the significance of the date he plans to do it, and because the media need something to write about.

They tried to discuss this on Newstalk late last night, but the interviewer obviously had a vendetta against Islam and rather than make this pastor (who they referred to as Terry Pratchet ) out to be a loon and such, he just spoke about how Christianity was banned in Islamic countries. Pointless.

People are pulling stunts like this all the time. That it's getting coverage is a testament to the heightened anti-muslim sentiment in the US at the moment.

Fanny Cradock

Well said. This guy is clearly enjoying his 15 minutes and the media are happy to give it to him. He won't stop because he is enjoying the limelight too much and the media wont stop because it's too damn juicy a story to ignore. They are both feeding of each other.

Tim Robbins

What's the longest any Christian Church has existed for before being involved in violence or hate speak from one its leaders?

I would suggest it might be one of the newer Protestant Churches that have not been involved in the aformentioned heretofore?

And as a similar question which Christian Church do you think has the best track record and could call itself the most peaceful Christian Church?

Any thoughts?

Tim Robbins

mehfesto wrote: »

Personally, I'm blaming the media for this one.

I agree. Eamon Keane did similar tricks when the English team were about to play Rugby in Croke Park for the first time. Tabloid media always sells.