Modified Motors Discussion on Newstalk

Gary ITR

Daragh from Newstalks MotorMouth show (see the sticky for more info) has kindly invited me onto the show next week to discuss car modifying and the scene that surrounds it. Now I'm by no means an expert but what I'll talk for Ireland and I am modifying my own car (slowly) and have modified cars in the past. What I'm really there for is to get your view as boards people across. I would like to show the listeners that all guys that modify cars aren't irresponsible teens who plonk a Halford's backbox onto a civic and race it around industrial estates until the car dies.

I want to put it out there that there are guys like me who, I believe are going the right way about modifying cars, who just simply love their car and want to improve it and make it something unique.


Anyway that's enough out of me for now so the floor is open until Thursday then this thread will be locked until the Monday evening just to give us a chance to go through it in detail.


Thanks

Gary

djimi

For the love of god repeat ad nauseum the distinction between boy racers and genuine car enthusiasts! If only the general public would get into their heads that just because someone is driving a performance car does not mean they are a brainless moron behind the wheel of it, the world would be a better place...

Seth Brundle

Onkle wrote: »

I want to put it out there that there are guys like me

No No No - surely you want to send out a positive image

Gary ITR

2 replies and the comedians are out already :pac:

Wibbs

djimi wrote: »

For the love of god repeat ad nauseum the distinction between boy racers and genuine car enthusiasts! If only the general public would get into their heads that just because someone is driving a performance car does not mean they are a brainless moron behind the wheel of it, the world would be a better place...

This.

Gary ITR

I hope to get this across, there is a big difference between a modded car and a tarted up POS

Most folks in tarted up PsOS go on to drive modded cars though. The only difference between me in a lowered Celica with a cat back exhaust etc and a 17 year old in a lowered 1.0 Corsa with a Halfords backbox is that I could insure a Celica.

projectgtr

Hhhhhmmmmmm tempting but can only imagine been ripped apart like a lamb to the slaughter, doesnt seem anything can be done to change public perception charity events, proper organised legal events nothing like that gets any coverage. Mind if i spread the word to try find someone?

Gary ITR

projectgtr wrote: »

Hhhhhmmmmmm tempting but can only imagine been ripped apart like a lamb to the slaughter, doesnt seem anything can be done to change public perception charity events, proper organised legal events nothing like that gets any coverage. Mind if i spread the word to try find someone?

I don't follow?

I'm going on the show, you guys put your thoughts and opinions here

Gary ITR

RoverJames wrote: »

Most folks in tarted up PsOS go on to drive modded cars though. The only difference between me in a lowered Celica with a cat back exhaust etc and a 17 year old in a lowered 1.0 Corsa with a Halfords backbox is that I could insure a Celica.

A nice car can be modified and driven badly too, the problem is we are all tarred with the one brush. The stereotype is awful and for the genuine guys out there it's really unfair

projectgtr

Onkle wrote: »

I don't follow?

I'm going on the show, you guys put your thoughts and opinions here

Dont mind me i totally read it wrong, damn Xfactor in the background, let me have a think:D

Bonito

Excellent. I remember last year there was a topic about performance and modified cars on Adrian Kennedy and all him and his listeners did was whinge and moan.

His argument was "Why should a male in his mid twenties be allowed drive a 2.5 Subaru Impreza. These young males are hazzards on our roads. I know everything. bla bla bla bla."

Obviously didn't have a clue. He should be allowed because 1. He can afford it. 2. Maybe he loves his car. 3. If he can afford it, it's cost him a bucket load and you can be sure he's not going to be acting the bollox in it on public roads. Pretty sure there's lads out there who would rank damaging their performance and modified cars that they love as being worse than hitting anyone else or anyone elses car.

So explain to average Joe and Mary Soap why we love our cars and why we love looking after them and making them in to our own.

Atomic Pineapple

Onkle wrote: »

A nice car can be modified and driven badly too, the problem is we are all tarred with the one brush. The stereotype is awful and for the genuine guys out there it's really unfair

Exactly, anyone that drives a Japanese sports car or modified car gets tarred as being the same as the brain dead morons that would frequent Ballymount on a Sunday night.

These guys drive everything from 1litre 206's up to Evo's and Impreza's so there is no denying that these idiots have their hands on nice and highly modified cars these days as well as the balls of ****e you'd normally assume they drive.

But its the fact that the general public automatically assume you are one of these idiots because of the car you drive thats the problem.

For example,

While bringing a female friend on a spin recently I was on a motorway and a EK9 Honda Civic Type R overtook me, she goes "Look at that boy racer speeding", yet when the Civic pulled in ahead of me and a BMW 5 series flew by me and the Civic at well above the speed limit she said nothing!

smash

In fairness Onkle, your avatar says 'Vtec yo' and you have a link to Urban Per4mance in your signature... :P

Matt Simis

If the accusation that our roads are deathtraps due to "young men in modified cars", have some stats from this thread ready:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67744996&postcount=55


Also, point out to them not every modified car is Jap scrap, some of us have nice cars too.




I joke :pac:

smash

Matt Simis wrote: »

If the accusation that our roads are deathtraps due to "young men in modified cars", have some stats from this thread ready:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67744996&postcount=55

Anyone who listened to Anton Savage last week on Newstalk will tell you that it wont hold up. We can deny it all we want but it's not only statistics from our country that point to young men being a problem. And it's not only in cars...

On a sat night it's young men that get in fights, in any sport it's mainly young men that get hurt. The need for adrenalin is built into us in a way, and that's the problem.

I do however think that the 'problem' needs to be handled better than silly radio and TV ads.

As for our roads, most of them are death traps in themselves but that has nothing to do with modified cars.

I'm a car enthusiast, I've had modified cars and will again in the future. However I don't waste my money on tarting up jap scrap with body kits and I certainly don't act the b0llox on public roads.

Fast road cars are fun but ultimately pointless unless you're going to track them, this level of thinking is what has pushed a large number of people into deciding that a cheap road car + dedicated track car is the way forward. I tend to agree.

Matt Simis

steve06 wrote: »

Anyone who listened to Anton Savage last week on Newstalk will tell you that it wont hold up. We can deny it all we want but it's not only statistics from our country that point to young men being a problem. And it's not only in cars...

Without derailing the thread, thats not the point Im trying to make.


a) There is an assertion here that travelling on our roads is more dangerous than is "should be" or elsewhere. That is false, we have a quite safe road network (amazing considering the quality of the actual roads themselves).

b) There is also a separate assertion that young men are in more accidents (and other things as you point out). That is true, though IMO the gap between genders is far smaller than commonly thought.


So its inaccurate to combine the two, that young men make our roads unsafe, as statistically our roads are not unsafe. The few very media highlighted accidents we have may commonly feature young males, but this is not a threat to national road safety. We do not have an issue with road deaths, those we have, are acceptable given our road network and population.



Besides, without being armed with some stats, this conversation about modified cars could go very badly if someone stats on an ill-informed tirade against car enthusiasts.

smash

Matt Simis wrote: »

Besides, without being armed with some stats, this conversation about modified cars could go very badly if someone stats on an ill-informed tirade against car enthusiasts.

As is always the case. Various members of Octane.ie have been on Newstalk to discuss motoring topics and with people like Jim Higgins around it's almost like talking to a brick wall yet with the right person behind the mic it's perfectly clear to see through his nonsense.

Here's a tip, get a car enthusiast behind the mic that's actually an enthusiast and possibly a collector. Not someone with a modified jap sports car.

Atomic Pineapple

steve06 wrote: »

Here's a tip, get a car enthusiast behind the mic that's actually an enthusiast and possibly a collector. Not someone with a modified jap sports car.

Why cant someone with a modified jap sports car not also be an enthusiast?

smash

draffodx wrote: »

Why cant someone with a modified jap sports car not also be an enthusiast?

They can be an enthusiast, but there's more credibility to an argument when you come to them with something that's outside their tunnel vision view of things.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

steve06 wrote: »

They can be an enthusiast, but there's more credibility to an argument when you come to them with something that's outside their tunnel vision view of things.

Don't agree with that at all. Most Joe Soaps out there wouldn't know the difference between a Jap sports car and a Euro sports car so I dont think it makes more difference. They perceive us all to be the same.

smash

Bryn wrote: »

Don't agree with that at all. Most Joe Soaps out there wouldn't know the difference between a Jap sports car and a Euro sports car so I dont think it makes more difference. They perceive us all to be the same.

I've tried to find the link but as it's an old segment the podcast is gone. Jim Higgins was on newstalk before about car enthusiasts/boy racers/exhausts/tinted windows/donuts etc. He was pitted against someone who owned an AC Cobra, a Lotus Elise and a Range Rover. He couldn't answer any questions, couldn't link any of what he was saying to reality or to the guest... the reason was that the guest had modified cars and was an enthusiast but wasn't in his teens and didn't have your average modified car in the eyes of joe public i.e. a civic with tin can exhaust, induction kit and tacky body kit.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

steve06 wrote: »

I've tried to find the link but as it's an old segment the podcast is gone. Jim Higgins was on newstalk before about car enthusiasts/boy racers/exhausts/tinted windows/donuts etc. He was pitted against someone who owned an AC Cobra, a Lotus Elise and a Range Rover. He couldn't answer any questions, couldn't link any of what he was saying to reality or to the guest... the reason was that the guest had modified cars and was an enthusiast but wasn't in his teens and didn't have your average modified car in the eyes of joe public i.e. a civic with tin can exhaust, induction kit and tacky body kit.

An average, everyday person who is into cars and into modifying cars does not own cars like listed above. That guy obviously has a fair few quid to spend and most people can't afford to have that kind of cash wrapped up in cars.

Also, bare in mind, the show Onkle will be on next week is about average Joe's who are into cars, and how the public portrays them. The public don't have a problem with people like the gentleman you have outlined above

Henry Ford III

How would an average person differentiate between a boy racer and a genuine car enthusiast though in reality?

The problem I'd suggest is that a modded car can be done tastefully or otherwise, can go like stink or like stock, or be driven by an idiot or by a decent driver, and most of the time they all look similar at least.

I'd also suggest a genuine car enthusiast doesn't necessarily need any mods to his/her car.

It's a thorny subject, and I can see no easy solution. The good guys, for right or wrong will get tarred with the same brush as the bogies.

mecanoman

Its going to be an uphill struggle to change peoples mind as
regards the modified car scene.

Back in my youth i drove XR3i's BMW 3series and even 200sx S13
(great car).

At the moment i'm driving a Ford Focus. When ever i come across
Glanza and Civic drivers most of them seem to have the "Road warrior look" one had on the wheel and lots of rev's, look at me!

Good luck with trying to tackle this subject.

ronanc15

So many things that need saying, not enough time. One key one though which I'd like you to bring up is why nobody e.g RSA has sat down around a table with the owners of the country's modified car websites to share views on the matter and see how their input can help generate fresh methods of tackling the problems. Why exclude the very people they deem to be the root cause of the issue?

Matt Simis

Bryn wrote: »

An average, everyday person who is into cars and into modifying cars does not own cars like listed above. That guy obviously has a fair few quid to spend and most people can't afford to have that kind of cash wrapped up in cars.

The reality is we have no idea what the supposed average everyday enthusiast has. Once you get over 25 and are an enthusiast, then you likely will have cars like the above. Look at Octane.ie, average age is quite high there and the cars many of the members have are not tarted up $hitboxes either. All the real life car enthusiasts I know have fairly high end cars too (and not all German like Im stereotyped).

TBH, thats the same on VagDrivers.net too, although they have an unhealthy obsession with old Golfs, but clearly not tacky rockets.

There is a FastnFurious style Modified Car show around Swords from time to time, pure tack and not the image we (I) do not want to cultivate. Partake if you want, but keep it quiet!

Henry Ford III wrote: »

How would an average person differentiate between a boy racer and a genuine car enthusiast though in reality?

Easy, boy racers drive underpowered and noisy crap boxes like a Ferrari around people to be seen.. while enthusiasts drive overpowered well kept cars on empty roads to be unseen.

Tefral

- Mention that when you open the newspaper and the look at the news, the cars that are wrecked are never modified cars, they are all passats, mondeos etc. I have yet to see an Integra or such in a ball in the news.

- Midnightclub raised €20k with a Charity Drive recently for Crumlin, Boards did another drive and DTD were involved in Charity Events Last year as best i recall.

- A micra and a Honda Integra/Civic can both do 100km/hr, yet which one do you think will pull up faster if they had to slam on the brakes? Yep you guessed it - The Modified Car.

- Roads are so bad, that owning a lowered car means you cant drive with any sort of haste anywhere because you will pull the sump out of your car/ buckle an alloy.

- Most of us wouldnt carry someone in the back seat of the car, normally the most passengers we would have is one person in the passenger seat, i know i have only taken one passenger in the backseat of the car in all the time i own my integra.

- We buy expensive tyres, not cheap ****e or remoulds.

- The level of investment in the cars in genuine/aftermarket parts etc is very high.

- We are interested in the mechanics of the cars we drive, therefore we wont drive on when you hear that new rattle or when the wheel starts shaking funny, i know my mother would keep driving away in her Tigra.

smash

Bryn wrote: »

An average, everyday person who is into cars and into modifying cars does not own cars like listed above. That guy obviously has a fair few quid to spend and most people can't afford to have that kind of cash wrapped up in cars.

Rubbish, you'll get an Elise for 10k - most of the lads that people portray as boy racers because of the type of car they drive, and style of driving they choose to subscribe to will spend this on their modified cars.

Bryn wrote: »

Also, bare in mind, the show Onkle will be on next week is about average Joe's who are into cars, and how the public portrays them. The public don't have a problem with people like the gentleman you have outlined above

The gentleman I've mentioned above is an average Joe and is a car enthusiast who likes his modifications... He just has good taste in cars.

So who would you consider to be an average Joe who's into cars?
Your average golf or focus driver who upgrades his alloys from standard spec?
Your average Joe who buys a new BMW and gets an M pack because he likes the M3 but can't afford it?
Or your average 17yr old who wants to learn to drive but is hell bent on getting a Glanza or civic to do so?

I know who the general public would consider the average Joe who's into cars...

Henry Ford III

Matt Simis wrote: »

...Easy, boy racers drive underpowered and noisy crap boxes like a Ferrari around people to be seen.. while enthusiasts drive overpowered well kept cars on empty roads to be unseen.

Can't a car enthusiast drive a standard unmodified car?

smash

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Can't a car enthusiast drive a standard unmodified car?

Yea they can, and that's kind of the point. If a car enthusiast can't afford their dream car they'll still be an enthusiast but they wont go out and buy a tarted up sh!t box to compensate the lack of a supercar.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

steve06 wrote: »

Rubbish, you'll get an Elise for 10k - most of the lads that people portray as boy racers because of the type of car they drive, and style of driving they choose to subscribe to will spend this on their modified cars.


The gentleman I've mentioned above is an average Joe and is a car enthusiast who likes his modifications... He just has good taste in cars.

So who would you consider to be an average Joe who's into cars?
Your average golf or focus driver who upgrades his alloys from standard spec?
Your average Joe who buys a new BMW and gets an M pack because he likes the M3 but can't afford it?
Or your average 17yr old who wants to learn to drive but is hell bent on getting a Glanza or civic to do so?

I know who the general public would consider the average Joe who's into cars...

How many people do you personally know that can afford to own 3 cars and also run them? While also paying for mortgages and everyday bills?
Cos I know I don't know anybody personally who has 3 cars........especially 3 cars that would cost €10K+ each

cpoh1

Steve06 - I get the impression that because you are into Euro cars and drive a few french/italian performance cars you consider yourself above the average car enthusiast because they drive "japscrap" as you call it. Considering the amount of scobes driving novas and 205 gtis in the 90's and later on the clio hot hatch variants, 106's and saxos I wouldnt be too quick to judge. It is quite obvious that no performance car brand is immune from having the wrong type of person drive it.

Jap cars are popular for a reason, they are faster and more reliable for the most part than their european counterparts and cheaper too. There's a reason for example a performance alfa is rare on these shores and its nothing to do with poor taste. They are unreliable, not that fast and despite their lovely leather and quirky features their looks arent everyones cup of tea either. Why pay a premium for an unreliable gtv when you can get a dc2 typeR that not only is cheaper to run, more reliable, faster but handles better too? And no having to mind them and babysit them is not part of the "experience" of owning a performance car in my book. Im not turning this into a euro-jap debate but you really need to get off that horse of yours, owning an alfa or peugoet does not make one more of an enthusiast than someone with a japanese performance car. The public cant tell the difference either.

Back on track, Onkle I would be highlighting the fact that there are bad drivers across all agegroups and all car manufacturers. Beemers have good and bad drivers just like modified cars do. No one group is immune from idiocy on the road.

Matt Simis

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Can't a car enthusiast drive a standard unmodified car?

But I didnt say they drove modified cars exclusively, just "overpowered" (compared to average cars)!? Besides, the question was how does Joe Public use the labels "boy racer" and "enthusiast", not us...

LIGHTNING wrote: »

+1
I was just about to post the same thing. I dont want to be dumped into the car enthuasiast group.

What do mean, given your profession, I would certainly hope you are a Car Enthusiast.

cpoh1 wrote: »

Steve06 - I get the impression that because you are into Euro cars and drive a few french/italian performance cars you consider yourself above the average car enthusiast because they drive "japscrap" as you call it.

I didnt really get that impression from Steve, just doesnt like the negative imagery certain Car Shows and "lifestyle" choices bring to the table.

Also, I hope you know I was messing with "Japscrap", I just find the term humorous and quaint. Like Panzer Wagon, Rice Rocket/Burner, VTEC Yo etc.

Lord Nikon

Maybe it's just me, but the general consensus is that 99% of boy racers are seen as boy racers because of the Jap car they drive. Also, all cars you hear with a loud exhaust are Jap cars.

I would spend a lot of time on the roads, but i can't really remember seeing many European or American cars tarted up.

Are Jap cars easier to tune, cheap to maintain, cheap on parts. Is that why they are car of choice for boyracers....

My understanding is that Jap cars are the most reliable cars in the world, and it's strange how boy racers love them, and old people love them for going to mass, and farmers love them for dragging around their horseboxes.

Is a boyracer one that likes to drive everwhere fast, no matter what he drives?

Am I a boyracer because I overtake someone, and they see my German reg plates, and 18" alloys. Or am I a car enthusiast because I like cars, like doing work on my own car, ensuring it runs and works perfect all the time, gets it serviced on time, and would prefer to have OEM parts bolted on that Halfords aftermarket rubbish.

cpoh1

steve06 wrote: »

Yea they can, and that's kind of the point. If a car enthusiast can't afford their dream car they'll still be an enthusiast but they wont go out and buy a tarted up sh!t box to compensate the lack of a supercar.

So you should drive a standard corolla unless you can afford a "dream car" or "supercar"? I cant afford to buy or run an E92 M3 or newer M5 but I still manage to fulfill my needs with what i have and neither of my cars are "tarted up" or sh!t boxes. Seriously this is one of the silliest posts ive ever had the pleasure of responding to here.

Viper_JB

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Can't a car enthusiast drive a standard unmodified car?

I'd agree, all depends on what you would class as a modification. I maintain my car and anytime something is due a replacement I'll generally replace it with the best part avaliable to me.
There's no shame in driving a cheap run about car...the problem is when you get these cheap run about cars which have body kits...induction kits...large back boxes etc. I'm not too sure if it's down to lack of knowledge "if it looks and sounds faster then surely it'll be faster" or if it's just down to the backwards baseball cap wearing youths trying to be like all their mates I cannot fathom why anyone would want a Galanza outside of these reasons.

Henry Ford III

Matt Simis wrote: »

But I didnt say they drove modified cars exclusively, just "overpowered" (compared to average cars)!?

What do mean, given your profession, I would certainly hope you are a Car Enthusiast.

Why couldn't a car enthusiast drive an underpowered car though?

I genuinely don't see why an enthusiasts car has to be modified or high powered.

Can't the driver of a mundane shopping car still be an enthusiast?

Viper_JB

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Why couldn't a car enthusiast drive an underpowered car though?

I genuinely don't see why an enthusiasts car has to be modified or high powered.

Can't the driver of a mundane shopping car still be an enthusiast?

Alot of the time for the same price you can buy performance...just slightly older, I would say it'd be pretty out of charater for someone who loves cars to go into a garage and specifically request the most boring car they have in stock.

cpoh1

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Why couldn't a car enthusiast drive an underpowered car though?

I genuinely don't see why an enthusiasts car has to be modified or high powered.

Can't the driver of a mundane shopping car still be an enthusiast?

Would you not say a car enthusiast without a car to enthus over is a strange thing? A bit like a tradesman with no tools? There will always be a time when you dont have a car worth enthusing about whether it be financial or family commitments but to consider yourself a car enthusiast but never own a modified or high powered or even unusual car would be a very strange occurance indeed in my book. Just my 2c.

Matt Simis

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Why couldn't a car enthusiast drive an underpowered car though?
I genuinely don't see why an enthusiasts car has to be modified or high powered.
Can't the driver of a mundane shopping car still be an enthusiast?

The question was how would the average public use the labels.

Still, is someone a Skiiing Enthusiast that mostly drinks coco and hangs about in the kiddies learning area? They may be enthusiastic about Skiiing, but they are not actually a "Skiiing Enthusiast" are they? And yeah, I know you wont like that answer.

cpoh1 wrote: »

So you should drive a standard corolla unless you can afford a "dream car" or "supercar"? I cant afford to buy or run an E92 M3 or newer M5 but I still manage to fulfill my needs with what i have and neither of my cars are "tarted up" or sh!t boxes. Seriously this is one of the silliest posts ive ever had the pleasure of responding to here.

Buy an old M5 and get more kudos then... :cool:

smash

cpoh1 wrote: »

Steve06 - I get the impression that because you are into Euro cars and drive a few french/italian performance cars you consider yourself above the average car enthusiast because they drive "japscrap" as you call it.

And that's where you're wrong. I've had a few Celica's, a Mitsubishi GTO and currently still have an Almera GTi.

cpoh1 wrote: »

It is quite obvious that no performance car brand is immune from having the wrong type of person drive it.

I know that

cpoh1 wrote: »

Jap cars are popular for a reason, they are faster and more reliable for the most part than their european counterparts and cheaper too.

I know all of this but it puts them in a dangerous bracket.

cpoh1 wrote: »

There's a reason for example a performance alfa is rare on these shores and its nothing to do with poor taste. They are unreliable, not that fast and despite their lovely leather and quirky features their looks arent everyones cup of tea either. Why pay a premium for an unreliable gtv when you can get a dc2 typeR that not only is cheaper to run, more reliable, faster but handles better too?

Because it's different, it's a nicer place to be, has more class than your average jap sports car and doesn't lump you into the boy racer category. And it's a road car so while on track an Integra is going to be fun, why bother mention performance unless you're going to apply it to a public road, which you shouldn't do.

cpoh1 wrote: »

Im not turning this into a euro-jap debate but you really need to get off that horse of yours, owning an alfa or peugoet does not make one more of an enthusiast than someone with a japanese performance car. The public cant tell the difference either.

I'm not on a high horse, it doesn't matter where your car is from, you can still be an enthusiast. I'm just pointing out that the only people that get noticed are the young lads in tarted up jap cars. Maybe if they changed the scene a bit they wouldn't get so much attention.

cpoh1 wrote: »

So you should drive a standard corolla unless you can afford a "dream car" or "supercar"?

Don't be stupid.

cpoh1 wrote: »

I cant afford to buy or run an E92 M3 or newer M5 but I still manage to fulfill my needs with what i have and neither of my cars are "tarted up" or sh!t boxes.

Then why are you taking offence?

ianobrien

There is a disinction between modified cars and car enthusiasts. OP you need to get that across. The difference was summed up for me by a member of AGS one night.

I called to a Garda Station in North Cork one night to talk to AGS about a night navigation trial that I was running. I mentioned to him that these can attract a small amount of anti-social elements in usually modified cars (typical boy racer) and I asked him if he wouldn't mind showing up before the event to discourage these people. His reply was interesting.

He stated that there are two groups in the town. One was car enthusiasts that usually meet in a car park and just admire each other's car. They never revv'ed an engine and usually had the stereos at an acceptable level. He said that they had proper cars, and looked after them properly and never caused any hassle.

The other were the stereotypical "boy racer", and it was that group that were the problem.

OP, you'll need to make a proper disinction between car enthusiast and boy racer. The enthusiast will look after his machine and drive usually within the rules of the road. Just because they are loud/powerful/painted doesn't make them a boy racer. I wouldn't dream of putting a bodykit/big wheels with stock mechanicals on a car. I prefer the sleeper look.

To me, car enthusiast would cover people who are interested in cars, whether bodykitted/loud paint jobbes jap spec cars to classic cars to competition vehicles to those who like (and can't afford to buy) supercars.

Also, most car enthusiasts that I know have more than one car. They have a stereotypical family car for everyday use, and the other car for the weekend. I'm currently paying two road taxes and two insurances, and I've another car in storage.

cpoh1

steve06 wrote: »

Because it's different, it's a nicer place to be, has more class than your average jap sports car and doesn't lump you into the boy racer category. And it's a road car so while on track an Integra is going to be fun, why bother mention performance unless you're going to apply it to a public road, which you shouldn't do.


I'm not on a high horse, it doesn't matter where your car is from, you can still be an enthusiast. I'm just pointing out that the only people that get noticed are the young lads in tarted up jap cars. Maybe if they changed the scene a bit they wouldn't get so much attention.

Class and thinking that inside one car is a nicer place to be over another is all very subjective and down entirely to the individual. I happen to think a set of recaro seats, momo steering wheel and gearknob and interior focussed on driving is a much nicer setup than some fine italian hide and fancy switches. Loads of others do too. Jap performance cars are more popular because they were better made and more reliable, cheaper to buy and run and ultimately faster and feel better to drive than their european equivalent at the lower end of the price range. Their is nothing in the european market for 4k that will get you anything near what a mk2 mx5 1.8 RS or dc2 type r will offer in terms of feel and driving dynamics. Even for 7k bang for buck there is nothing european that is better value than a well setup evo6 or R32 GTR skyline. I could buy an inferior european performance car to be different but that just doesnt make sense to me.

Henry Ford III

cpoh1 wrote: »

Would you not say a car enthusiast without a car to enthus over is a strange thing? A bit like a tradesman with no tools? There will always be a time when you dont have a car worth enthusing about whether it be financial or family commitments but to consider yourself a car enthusiast but never own a modified or high powered or even unusual car would be a very strange occurance indeed in my book. Just my 2c.

I know car enthusiasts who drive for example an unmodified Corolla saloon.

They love cars but just don't feel the need/desire to drive a faster/lower/better handling car than the one they own and love.

TestTransmission

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I know car enthusiasts who drive for example an unmodified Corolla saloon.

They love cars but just don't feel the need/desire to drive a faster/lower/better handling car than the one they own and love.

They're far from being an enthusiast then.

cpoh1

Matt Simis wrote: »

The question was how would the average public use the labels.

Still, is someone a Skiiing Enthusiast that mostly drinks coco and hangs about in the kiddies learning area? They may be enthusiastic about Skiiing, but they are not actually a "Skiiing Enthusiast" are they? And yeah, I know you wont like that answer.

Buy and old M5 and get more kudos then... :cool:

Because my R32 GTR skyline is a better car to drive than an older E34 M5 in my book :cool:

Ill hold out for the big brother when my euromillions ticket comes in

Lord Nikon

...because I don't have recaro seats, or a momo steering wheel, or a shiny alloy gearknob, I'm not a car enthusiast.

I would prefer not to have these in my car, it would only make it feel cheap to me.

Matt Simis

cpoh1 wrote: »

Because my R32 GTR skyline is a better car to drive than an older E34 M5 in my book :cool:

Ill hold out for the big brother when my euromillions ticket comes in

Heh, there is an e39 between the e34 and e60 you know! Buy one to compliment what you have, have your cake and eat it too. :pac:


PS: Did I mention ye olde E34 M5 and E31 (8Series coupe) are both on Classic Insurance now?

cpoh1

neuromancer wrote: »

....because I don't have recaro seats, or a momo steering wheel, or a shiny alloy gearknob, I'm not a car enthusiast.

I would prefer not to have these in my car, it would only make it feel cheap to me.

Nobody said that and you know it, its something I personally like. You do realise that momo and recaro make oem parts for manufacturers like porsche, ferrari and top of the range cars from the middle of the road manufacturers? Taste is a very subjective thing and i personally think recaro make the best seats for cars bar none. Momo also make some outstanding steering wheels that look neither tacky nor cheap.

Taste is a very subjective thing at the end of the day and there is no right and wrong, only what puts a smile on your face!

Viper_JB

cpoh1 wrote: »

Class and thinking that inside one car is a nicer place to be over another is all very subjective and down entirely to the individual. I happen to think a set of recaro seats, momo steering wheel and gearknob and interior focussed on driving is a much nicer setup than some fine italian hide and fancy switches. Loads of others do too. Jap performance cars are more popular because they were better made and more reliable, cheaper to buy and run and ultimately faster and feel better to drive than their european equivalent at the lower end of the price range. Their is nothing in the european market for 4k that will get you anything near what a mk2 mx5 1.8 RS or dc2 type r will offer in terms of feel and driving dynamics. Even for 7k bang for buck there is nothing european that is better value than a well setup evo6 or R32 GTR skyline. I could buy an inferior european performance car to be different but that just doesnt make sense to me.

Bit of a double standard here mate, and sorry but I'd have to disagree, Japan does cheap performance cars very well, I actually own two of them. But for raw power luxary and comfort, you won't beat most european luxo barges, I've driven a few porches, M3's and high powered mercs and they are just in a different league. Different league price wize too, from you're post though I do get that you're giving a very definite ruling on something you don't appear to have ever driven.