An NCT for Classic Cars

Basil Fawlty

carchaeologist wrote: »

Im a word,yes. And well its known.

Not at all,theres hundreds of original cars out there too.


Yes,some cars do,and they have done.Its not a conspiracy theory.


I wouldnt have a problem with any of my cars having their paperwork and chassis numbers shown. There shouldnt be any issue,should there?


You are missing the point entirely here.


Very true,but it would also have its taxes paid and it would have a registration thats correct for the car. Plus,the plate would probably not match the year of the car.

Is there actually any evidence to prove your theory? You cant just go accusing people of ringing cars.

My car is checked at NCT time, I just dont fancy wasting time at Garda / Customs check points proving that my car is what its meant to be because some people have a theory that hundreds of lads are ringing cars with old irish log books.

Id be all for cars over 1 year old being tested every year. A 3 year old car could have 90,000 miles on it and be a comeplete wreck. People in this country that own new cars have very little respect for them and barely do basic servicing when its due.

Also its up to the owner to make sure the car they are driving is roadworthy whether its meant to be tested or not. You have an accident and you car isnt up to scratch there is a good chance the insurance company wont pay out.

alpina

As mine is an '81, I no longer have a choice about NCTs & will have to go annually. Personally do not have a problem with this as even if it was exempt would bring along every 2 or 3 years anyway for IMO a pretty cheap way of getting a written analysis/report of condition, (can't harm value/resale value). The thing is if you know what you are doing why should you have to undergo an NCT with your classic, but what if you don't know what your doing or what to look out for...then it's possible such car is a danger on the road to all of us. At least once a month I find myself working on or replacing/updating something so I trust my car & NCT reports echo this, however I also know of someone with a pre '80 who is now exempt & has not got a notion about maintenance nor is interested. The car has no brakes worth talking about, has probably put it's own hole in the ozone, dangerously pulls to the right but wen I suggest getting the required bits & bobs & I'll sort out FOC for him he fobs it off... under the excuse of ah sure I hardly use it I'm sure there are more like him & there is the problem....:(

carchaeologist

ciarancapri wrote: »

Is there actually any evidence to prove your theory? You cant just go accusing people of ringing cars.

Im not accusing anyone in particular,but i dont think im too far out in my assumption...am i?

. A 3 year old car could have 90,000 miles on it and be a complete wreck. People in this country that own new cars have very little respect for them and barely do basic servicing when its due.

Yes,i agree,a very valid point. Cars are mostly treated like washing machines,worked untill they stop,then just buy a new one. Sure why not when you get such good deals on scrappage! At least the NCT will pick up on them on the 4th year.

Also its up to the owner to make sure the car they are driving is roadworthy whether its meant to be tested or not. You have an accident and you car isnt up to scratch there is a good chance the insurance company wont pay out.

I also agree fully with this point. I think most people on this forum would keep their cars in good shape?

Sam Russell

ciarancapri wrote: »

Is there actually any evidence to prove your theory? You cant just go accusing people of ringing cars.

If you read the thread about 'bargains I'm not buying' there are plenty of cars that are clearly not as described. I remember an XJS being described IIRC as a 79 'but its all 1993'. Another example, a mini shown as pre 1980 but with clear markers of a much later car. I know someone with a 1992 mini which is registered as a 1978.

Many cars hide under an older, false, identity to be vintage. That and clocking are clearly rife in Ireland.

corktina

"Hundreds " of ringed cars as in more than 200 would be accurate in my view. I know of dozens that I have seen. Have a close look at shows, quite common to see UK numbers etched in glass with original irish numbers on the plates. Check cartell or similar for engine and transmission on some top end "Irish" car you come across....often you will find what appears to be a 2 litre is registered as (for instance) a 1300 automatic.

AN example: A Cortina (cos thats what I know about) bought at a major show in the UK in concours condition and a prize winner and now on Irish plates.; for sale earlier this year and advertised as a prize winner at that show! (when it had UK plates and there are photos to prove it, I was at the show).

Beats me how anyone could cut the chassis number out of a concours car (which I assume they did) or is it still there for anyone to see?. One of many cars Ive seen arrive on UK plates and "disappear"...no VRT paid...lost revenue to the rest of us and genuine Irish devalued a bit more.

Possibly the recent changes in registering where you have to provide evidence of date of import are designed to catch the fall-out of a clampdown on the illegal vehicles already here.

MorrisCooper

I remember being at the Trim show some years back and seeing my own wedding car which I had sold some years previously. Everything was as I sold it except the reg. It had miraculously been transformed from a ZV reg to a Meath reg. When I tracked down the owner, he got a bit of a shock but told me "he did it right and got a new chassis number made up"!

landkeeper

i think you can change from a zv to a 67-mh-1234 type reg
if you want to see ringed vehicles you should study zv rangerovers there is a hive of activity on that one in wicklow amongst other places it's hilarious
a 1994 300tdi soft dash on a zv plate
a 4.2 lse 108" rangerover classic running on a 1975 reg are a couple iv'e seen
as per normal the few have spoilt it for the many

Sam Russell

Looking at the test results from the NCT, only 72% of 4 year old cars pass the test first time (2008, 2009) so a quarter of 4 year old cars are unroadworthy, 96% pass on retest. This would suggest that a significant number of 3 year old cars would fail the NCT, and presumable some two year olds as well.

That would suggest to me that a test for two year olds should be introduced, and proberbly one year old, and three year old while we are at it since these are the cars doing the most miles.

Ali Babba

corktina wrote: »

Possibly the recent changes in registering where you have to provide evidence of date of import are designed to catch the fall-out of a clampdown on the illegal vehicles already here.

How is this going to change anything? People are still going to ring cars, nothing stopping anyone from putting plates off an old car on an import.

gn3dr

Sam Russell wrote: »

Looking at the test results from the NCT, only 72% of 4 year old cars pass the test first time (2008, 2009) so a quarter of 4 year old cars are unroadworthy, 96% pass on retest. This would suggest that a significant number of 3 year old cars would fail the NCT, and presumable some two rearolds as well.

That would suggest to me that a test for two year olds should be introduced, and proberbly one year old, and three year old while we are at it since these are the cars doing the most miles.

I'd say that's fairly unreliable data though - I mean you will fail if you don't take off your hubcaps or have a rear seat belt stuck behind the seat cushion. It would be better to see a breadown of what the fails were.

gn3dr

Sam Russell wrote: »

If you read the thread about 'bargains I'm not buying' there are plenty of cars that are clearly not as described. I remember an XJS being described IIRC as a 79 'but its all 1993'. Another example, a mini shown as pre 1980 but with clear markers of a much later car. I know someone with a 1992 mini which is registered as a 1978.

Many cars hide under an older, false, identity to be vintage. That and clocking are clearly rife in Ireland.

landkeeper wrote: »

i think you can change from a zv to a 67-mh-1234 type reg
if you want to see ringed vehicles you should study zv rangerovers there is a hive of activity on that one in wicklow amongst other places it's hilarious
a 1994 300tdi soft dash on a zv plate
a 4.2 lse 108" rangerover classic running on a 1975 reg are a couple iv'e seen
as per normal the few have spoilt it for the many

I don't doubt that some of this ringing goes on but it is unfair to assume that the XJS mentioned above or the Range Rovers (bar perhaps the LSE) were ringed.

It is perfectly possible and legal to put running gear from a '93 XJS into a '79 bodyshell - as long as it is the original chassis / body. In fact it is an economical way to restore a car if teh old running gear is worn out - you can buy a newer XJS and use everything for cheaper than it would cost to refurb the old stuff.

Likewise with the Range Rovers - perfectly possible to bolt the whole body from a '94 soft dash and put it on a pre 1980 chassis. The registration is linked to the chassis number. Having said that s good way to tell with Range Rovers is to look at the rear shocks - there should be one facing forward and facing back either side of the back axle on a '70's chassis and I have seen a few ZV's that didn't have this.

corktina

Ali Babba wrote: »

How is this going to change anything? People are still going to ring cars, nothing stopping anyone from putting plates off an old car on an import.

"fallout of a clampdown" would (to my mind) allude to their being a purge of some kind on the cards, like perhaps an inspection of the chassis numbers of alll Classics. Were this to happen, lots of people might want to be re-registering their ringed cars to make them legal, but will find now there is an obstacle in their way in that they have to produce evidence of date of purchase and date of import. In other words, theyve shut a loophole.

MorrisCooper

landkeeper wrote: »

i think you can change from a zv to a 67-mh-1234 type reg
if you want to see ringed vehicles you should study zv rangerovers there is a hive of activity on that one in wicklow amongst other places it's hilarious
a 1994 300tdi soft dash on a zv plate
a 4.2 lse 108" rangerover classic running on a 1975 reg are a couple iv'e seen
as per normal the few have spoilt it for the many

True, but you can't legally change from a ZV to a ZN and that's what my old car became.

corktina

landkeeper wrote: »

i think you can change from a zv to a 67-mh-1234 type reg

other way round....

corktina

gn3dr wrote: »

I don't doubt that some of this ringing goes on but it is unfair to assume that the XJS mentioned above or the Range Rovers (bar perhaps the LSE) were ringed.

It is perfectly possible and legal to put running gear from a '93 XJS into a '79 bodyshell - as long as it is the original chassis / body. In fact it is an economical way to restore a car if teh old running gear is worn out - you can buy a newer XJS and use everything for cheaper than it would cost to refurb the old stuff.

Likewise with the Range Rovers - perfectly possible to bolt the whole body from a '94 soft dash and put it on a pre 1980 chassis. The registration is linked to the chassis number. Having said that s good way to tell with Range Rovers is to look at the rear shocks - there should be one facing forward and facing back either side of the back axle on a '70's chassis and I have seen a few ZV's that didn't have this.

Im no Landy expert, but its my understanding its usually the Chassis thats knackered rather than a body needing a new chassis.

corktina

MorrisCooper wrote: »

True, but you can't legally change from a ZV to a ZN and that's what my old car became.

you cant change froma ZV at all in fact

macplaxton

gn3dr wrote: »

It is perfectly possible and legal to put running gear from a '93 XJS into a '79 bodyshell - as long as it is the original chassis / body. In fact it is an economical way to restore a car if teh old running gear is worn out - you can buy a newer XJS and use everything for cheaper than it would cost to refurb the old stuff.

Aye, and in the real world that's extremely unlikely to happen as the '79 bodyshell is more than likely a pile of dust. BL ****e.

I'm sure there's a bit of ringing going on the UK too before they get here to get the right side of the line drawn for Historic Vehicle tax-exempt status.

Basil Fawlty

corktina wrote: »

Im no Landy expert, but its my understanding its usually the Chassis thats knackered rather than a body needing a new chassis.

Not really it just depends. On the car. Inner sills on the body and rear cross member usually go first. Plus its worth your while ( and you dont have to be as tidy ) to repair a chassis.

Its not hard to swap a Range Rover body. You dont even need a ramp. Remember just because you wouldn't / couldnt do it doesnt mean someone else cant.

In saying that it would be nice to get a rotten 190e Cosworth and transfer it all into a nice Irish shell. You'd save 1000s in VRT and have a nice car at the end of it. Granted it would never be worth as much as a genuine car.

landkeeper

theshock/ shock mount is not a give away as it's just bolted to the chassis and would have to be changed if the axle was replaced at the time of the rebuild
on a side note what happens if you replace an old knackered chassis with a nice new shiney galvanised one do you lose the id or can you keep it

gn3dr

corktina wrote: »

Im no Landy expert, but its my understanding its usually the Chassis thats knackered rather than a body needing a new chassis.

No not really always the case. I've a '73 chassis here and am putting an '89 body on it (and I really am doing the body swap) and the '89 chassis has rust in a few places where the '73 is sound. I also have a '73 2 door Range Rover and the chassis on that is perfect and was never restored.
There was an accountancy driven change in the quality of steel used in the late '70's / early '80's Land Rovers I believe which leads to much more rotten later cars in many cases.
EVen if an earlier chassis does have rust it easier to repair a chassis than a body.

gn3dr

landkeeper wrote: »

theshock/ shock mount is not a give away as it's just bolted to the chassis and would have to be changed if the axle was replaced at the time of the rebuild
on a side note what happens if you replace an old knackered chassis with a nice new shiney galvanised one do you lose the id or can you keep it

But the proper shock mount will have tubes running through the chassis - I'd say that most that are moved will just have holes drilled with no tubes but even if that is not the case - you should still be able to see evidence of the old holes.

I'd say that the official line on a chassis change would be that revenue would try to screw some more cash cash out of you. However if you think about it - if the car has already been registered in Ireland then VRT is officially "registration" tax so the Shylocks have already got their pound of flesh.

At the end of day, I think it was said earlier in the thread - there really should be no problem with getting classics NCT'd from a cost or principle perspective - the problem is that the NCT system is a nightmare - they can't manage the current fleet of non classics properly so adding more cars into the system will just make things worse.

At least in the UK you can book an MOT easily and not have huge waiting times. That the MOT is a fairly dodgy piece of paperwork in my opinion anyway is a whole other matter.

Sam Russell

gn3dr wrote: »

At least in the UK you can book an MOT easily and not have huge waiting times. That the MOT is a fairly dodgy piece of paperwork in my opinion anyway is a whole other matter.

Except in Northern Ireland where it is run by a government agency and not by the local garage. No room for ... ehm .... err ......

mamakevf

I'm no Landy expert either, but I thought that they had no Chassis no. stamped on the actual chassis, the no. is only on the chassis plate, which is easily transferred.
This only applies to Landy's up to a date in the late 70's AFAIK.
Any experts to confirm this?
Also I think this goes for a lot of other British cars too.

101sean

Chassis no was always stamped on the chassis as well, usually it's on the front RH corner of the chassis rail above the spring mount. It's often hard to find or even been removed with the inevitable chassis repairs.