The INLA

paky

What motivated people during the troubles to join the INLA as opposed to the IRA?

Wolfe Tone

If I remember correctly what I read they were chucked(or left) out of the OIRA after a ceasefire. Annoyed with reforms or something.

losthorizon

The INLA was a Marxist group. While the Provos were savage imo the INLA scrapped the the bottom of the barrel.

time lord

paky wrote: »

What motivated people during the troubles to join the INLA as opposed to the IRA?

Good question. Where they lived mattered as to who they most likely would join if that way inclined. Why the different groups I don't know.

Wolfe Tone

I do not think that many people actually joined the INLA. Those who were in it were chucked our of the stickies because they rejected the ceasefire and where angry at reforms. There was then a bit of a feud between the IRA and the INLA.

deise go deo

I would say it was more a case of finding your self in it after a split than joining it for most members, As for people who did join it after the split, where they lived, Dislike for the local IRA and ideology would all have been factors.

Snickers Man

The INLA was originally the armed wing of the IRSP which was founded by a group of left wing dissidents mainly from dissatisfied Officials but which also included some prominent socialist republicans (like Bernadette Devlin/McAliskey at the start).

Its main light was Seamus Costello in the early days but he got shot dead by the Officials, who were supposed to have been on ceasefire at the time.

In the late 1970s/early 1980s it earned a certain notoriety largely on the strength of its assassination of Airey Neave and the exploits of Dominic "Mad Dog" McGlinchey who evaded capture for several years, despite a high profile media presence.

In the mid 1970s BBC Northern Ireland ran several features about the "three most wanted men" in the province. They were McGlinchey, Francis Hughes and some character called Milne. I believe the latter is the only one still alive. Francis Hughes died on hunger strike and McGlinchey, having become the first "terrorist" to be extradited from the Republic to the North eventually got topped by some feuding rivals, a few years after they or some other kindred spirits had done in his wife. One of their kids witnessed both murders.

The INLA quickly descended into a bunch of disparate gangs of extortionists, kidnappers and internecine killers famous only for the violence they inflicted on each other.

Why did people join them? Why do people join Mafia families?

Some areas had a history of membership (the Divis flats in Belfast were known as the "Planet of the IRPs" _it had a silent middle "S") but they never came anywhere close in numbers or reputation to the Provos.

Who misses them?

Delancey

The I.N.L.A. ( such as it is nowadays ) is little more than a cover for organised crime / hired guns , etc.

As others have said it was a strongly left-wing grouping . I recall one of their members who died in the 1981 hunger strike was called Michael Devine though in his hometown of Derry he was called ' Red Mickey ' due to his sympathies , other members names were similarly prefixed by ' Red '.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

According to Tim Pat Coogan, it was often influenced by geography with certain Belfast estates being more sympathetic to the INLA.

The Scientician

I'm curious what typically was the relationship between the INLA and the PIRA when they weren't feuding. Did they liaise?

paky

The Scientician wrote: »

I'm curious what typically was the relationship between the INLA and the PIRA when they weren't feuding. Did they liaise?

it seems unlikely. the inla had a habit of indiscriminately murdering civilians which i presume the provos fround upon
whats the current status of the inla anyway? in 2009 they had a press conference which anounced they were finished yet they have members still in prison?

Capt'n Midnight

The Scientician wrote: »

I'm curious what typically was the relationship between the INLA and the PIRA when they weren't feuding. Did they liaise?

Many of the paramilitaries on both nationalist and loyalist sides had agreed turf boundries for their criminal fundraising activities.

paky

heres an INLA propaganda video if anyones interested

PatsytheNazi

The Scientician wrote: »

I'm curious what typically was the relationship between the INLA and the PIRA when they weren't feuding. Did they liaise?

I cannot remember ever hearing of a feud between the Provos and the INLA. They did indeed liase on operations, sharing intelligence etc The enemy of my enemy is my friend, Tim Pat Coogan has some good information in his book The IRA. They also shared the same wings of Long Kesh, Portlaoise etc. In the 1981 hunger strike, 3 INLA men died along with 7 IRA.

Your probably thinking of Eoghan Harris, Eammon Gilmore and Pat Rabbitte's old Stalinist friends in the Stickies or 'Offical' IRA/Sinn Fein of whom were literally deadly enemies of both the IRA and INLA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Irish_Republican_Army

PatsytheNazi

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Many of the paramilitaries on both nationalist and loyalist sides had agreed turf boundries for their criminal fundraising activities.

So why didn't they just join Haughey and Fianna Fail, bribes sorry donations in brown paper bags, same with cheques, cushy state jobs with huge bonus's, been 'friends' with corrupt bankers and property developers etc

Snickers Man

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

So why didn't they just join Haughey and Fianna Fail, bribes sorry donations in brown paper bags, same with cheques, cushy state jobs with huge bonus's, been 'friends' with corrupt bankers and property developers etc

They will.

Not by combination but by imitation. If you want to see what Sinn Fein will be like in 20 years time, just look at Fianna Fail today. Or if not today, in its heyday 10 years ago.

Sinn Fein = Fianna Fail Nua.

I know this takes us out of the realms of History and Heritage and into Politics but then the latter is only a case of history repeating.

PatsytheNazi

Snickers Man wrote: »

They will.

Not by combination but by imitation. If you want to see what Sinn Fein will be like in 20 years time, just look at Fianna Fail today. Or if not today, in its heyday 10 years ago.

Sinn Fein = Fianna Fail Nua.

I know this takes us out of the realms of History and Heritage and into Politics but then the latter is only a case of history repeating.

Well as you say we're going out of the realms of History and Heritage, and indeed I fell out with SF over the ceasefire and Good Friday agreement etc as I thought they were indeed going the way of FF

But my point is, I remember only about 2 1/2 years ago when SF narrowly lost getting 2 European MEP's seats that some were declaring they would go the way of the Stickies ( Workers Party). i.e. into extinction. Whatever their shortcomings, as long as they keep their core rule that a SF TD can only get the average industrial wage (approx €36,000), I think they'll never stoop down to the level of FF.

PatsytheNazi

I worked with a bloke form Derry who was in the IRA back in the late 80's. He said once during a chat that the big mistake the INLA made was that they took in too many recruits after the 1981 hunger strike - unlike the Provos who hardly recruited he said for quite a while afterwards. The reason been that the INLA took in too many hot heads rather then those who the IRA believed were more deeper and long term in their political outlook. That's what he said, I'm not trying to make a personal point.

paky

Snickers Man wrote: »

They will.

Not by combination but by imitation. If you want to see what Sinn Fein will be like in 20 years time, just look at Fianna Fail today. Or if not today, in its heyday 10 years ago.

Sinn Fein = Fianna Fail Nua.

I know this takes us out of the realms of History and Heritage and into Politics but then the latter is only a case of history repeating.

i dont think the people in the south have any idea who their voting for when it comes to sinn fein but thats for another thread

Tupamaros

High level of ignorance in this thread, but anyway.

The IRSM were a split from the ORM. In January 1970 the monolithic republican movement split, with accusations from the provisional wing that the ORM were abandoning working class nationalists/catholics to sectarian pogroms without protection. The core of the future IRSP stayed within the ORM. At this time the provisionals would have had a reactionary reputation, the stereotypical image of celtic top wearing eejits, rightly or wrongly. The ORM had a more nuanced political approach, certainly coming from a more leftist perspective and getting more and more involved in social issues across the island.

In 1974 the IRSP split from the ORM. This was due to two primary factors. There was a serious lack of democracy emerging in the structures of the ORM and the leadership were moving the movement away from an armed confrontation with British imperialism. The ORM argued that armed actions and an emphasis on the national question alienated protestant workers, and social issues should be the concentration. The provos were the other side of the coin. The IRSP/INLA sought to do both in a way. They wish to agitate politically, defend working class areas from attack and confront British imperialism. Let us not forget the historical context, 3 years after the Ballymurphy Massacre and 2 years after Bloody Sunday.

The movement broke from the ORM and was under the leadership of Seamus Costello, universally regarded as an exceptional political talent. The late popular Dublin TD was very close to Costello and he joined the IRSP at this early stage. Bernadette McAliskey was also a prominent early member. The ORM, perhaps learning from the formation and fermentation of the provisionals sought to strangle the IRSM at birth. The IRSP refused to acknowledge it had an armed wing, until it had been built up to a point where it was functioning. Initially the INLA was effectively known as the People's Liberation Army(PLA). Hugh Ferguson, the first 'Irp' murdered by the Officials was referred to as a member of the PLA. Seamus Costello remains to this day the only leader of an Irish party to have been assassinated, killed by the OIRA in 1977.

The IRSP/INLA perhaps are best known for the killing of Airey Neave, a confidant of Margaret Thatcher who was blown up under the palace of Westminster, and the hunger strikes of 1981 in which 3 INLA members died. The movement was plagued by attacks on it and feuding, though this has been overplayed to some degree. While the INLA is associated with feuding with the OIRA, surprisingly the PIRA is not, who in 1975 carried out a mass operation aimed at the OIRA. The INLA and PIRA have never feuded, but the former was certainly extremely hostile as the IRSM was a political threat in the early days. Examples of this can be seen in different texts, which show how PIRA members were instructed to try a dissolve the IRSM in their areas and recruit their members. Patsy O'Hara was actually attacked numerous times by the PIRA. Also, when Brendan McNamee attempted to leave the PIRA and join the IRSM he was murdered, I would imagine to discourage people taking a similar course.

To answer the OP. Well people joined the INLA for various reasons. At the outset, many were motivated by marxist politics and ideals. For others it came down to convenience and reaction. If the INLA were stronger than the PIRA in an area young lads would join them, not always for lefty politics, but as a simple reaction to state/police/loyalist brutality against them. In more recent years the INLA in Dublin seemed to have descended into criminality. The INLA had been on a de facto ceasefire since 1994 (killing of Billy Wright a notable exception) and the political situation the prevails today along with the state of the movement in Dublin led to the INLA disarming in 2010.

PatsytheNazi

Tupamaros wrote: »

High level of ignorance in this thread, but anyway.

The IRSM were a split from the ORM. In January 1970 the monolithic republican movement split, with accusations from the provisional wing that the ORM were abandoning working class nationalists/catholics to sectarian pogroms without protection. The core of the future IRSP stayed within the ORM. At this time the provisionals would have had a reactionary reputation, the stereotypical image of celtic top wearing eejits, rightly or wrongly. The ORM had a more nuanced political approach, certainly coming from a more leftist perspective and getting more and more involved in social issues across the island.

In 1974 the IRSP split from the ORM. This was due to two primary factors. There was a serious lack of democracy emerging in the structures of the ORM and the leadership were moving the movement away from an armed confrontation with British imperialism. The ORM argued that armed actions and an emphasis on the national question alienated protestant workers, and social issues should be the concentration. The provos were the other side of the coin. The IRSP/INLA sought to do both in a way. They wish to agitate politically, defend working class areas from attack and confront British imperialism. Let us not forget the historical context, 3 years after the Ballymurphy Massacre and 2 years after Bloody Sunday.

The movement broke from the ORM and was under the leadership of Seamus Costello, universally regarded as an exceptional political talent. The late popular Dublin TD was very close to Costello and he joined the IRSP at this early stage. Bernadette McAliskey was also a prominent early member. The ORM, perhaps learning from the formation and fermentation of the provisionals sought to strangle the IRSM at birth. The IRSP refused to acknowledge it had an armed wing, until it had been built up to a point where it was functioning. Initially the INLA was effectively known as the People's Liberation Army(PLA). Hugh Ferguson, the first 'Irp' murdered by the Officials was referred to as a member of the PLA. Seamus Costello remains to this day the only leader of an Irish party to have been assassinated, killed by the OIRA in 1977.

The IRSP/INLA perhaps are best known for the killing of Airey Neave, a confidant of Margaret Thatcher who was blown up under the palace of Westminster, and the hunger strikes of 1981 in which 3 INLA members died. The movement was plagued by attacks on it and feuding, though this has been overplayed to some degree. While the INLA is associated with feuding with the OIRA, surprisingly the PIRA is not, who in 1975 carried out a mass operation aimed at the OIRA. The INLA and PIRA have never feuded, but the former was certainly extremely hostile as the IRSM was a political threat in the early days. Examples of this can be seen in different texts, which show how PIRA members were instructed to try a dissolve the IRSM in their areas and recruit their members. Patsy O'Hara was actually attacked numerous times by the PIRA. Also, when Brendan McNamee attempted to leave the PIRA and join the IRSM he was murdered, I would imagine to discourage people taking a similar course.

To answer the OP. Well people joined the INLA for various reasons. At the outset, many were motivated by marxist politics and ideals. For others it came down to convenience and reaction. If the INLA were stronger than the PIRA in an area young lads would join them, not always for lefty politics, but as a simple reaction to state/police/loyalist brutality against them. In more recent years the INLA in Dublin seemed to have descended into criminality. The INLA had been on a de facto ceasefire since 1994 (killing of Billy Wright a notable exception) and the political situation the prevails today along with the state of the movement in Dublin led to the INLA disarming in 2010.

Interesting, for a person who is claiming that there is "High level of ignorance in this thread ", you haven't stated anything that hasn't been said already.

Examples - " The INLA was originally the armed wing of the IRSP which was founded by a group of left wing dissidents mainly from dissatisfied Officials but which also included some prominent socialist republicans (like Bernadette Devlin/McAliskey at the start)........ it was often influenced by geography with certain Belfast estates being more sympathetic to the INLA...... I cannot remember ever hearing of a feud between the Provos and the INLA. They did indeed liase on operations, sharing intelligence etc The enemy of my enemy is my friend "

paky

Tupamaros wrote: »

The IRSP/INLA perhaps are best known for the killing of Airey Neave, a confidant of Margaret Thatcher who was blown up under the palace of Westminster, and the hunger strikes of 1981 in which 3 INLA members died.

its alleged that the death of airey neave was an inside job and that the inla only claimed responsibility. did the inla have the intelligence capacity to carry out a spectacular?

Sunnyisland

Jack holland & henry mc donald wrote the most insightful & fascinating book into the INLA, , INLA: Deadly Divisions,


Well worth a read.

man1

realies wrote: »

Jack holland & henry mc donald wrote the most insightful & fascinating book into the INLA, , INLA: Deadly Divisions,


Well worth a read.

Yeah have read that, a very good read. Also check out the "the lost revolution: a history of the official IRA and the workers party' Brian Hanley and Scott Miller
Its a fantastic read aswell for anyone interested in this area of irish history

iskra1916

This article might help readers understand the topic a little better, hopefully:

http://iskra1916.hubpages.com/hub/Irish-Republican-Socialist-Party

Gee Bag

The INLA had repeated feuds with the Official IRA as they were a splinter group from that organisation. The only time the officals seeemed eager to send guns to Belfast was when there was a feud to be settled.

As has been stated above the INLA had pretensions towards marxism and the like which was in contrast to the old school catholic/nationalist views of the Provos. They got occasional help from and were occasionaly shoved around by the Provos eg. in the wake of the hunger strikes when they were not allowed share speaking platforms or given a share of money raised by NORAID for huger strikers families.

The INLA's biggest enemy was the INLA. They were constantly feuding with each other, ambushing each other, stealing weapons from each others dumps, and setting up splinter groups. In the mid 1980's they were hit hard by supergrass trials ie. a single informer's word getting a lot of their members locked up (Harry Kirkpatrick being the best known).

The IPLO, a splinter group of the INLA who's members were heavily involved in crime were 'decommissioned' in a single night by the Provos in 1992 - leader killed and 20-30 members kneecapped (with assault rifles as an extra fcuk you).

Though they professed to be non-sectarian their membership consisted of a high proportion of loons, especially around the border. Many of their overtly sectarian killings were carried out by a group calling itself the Catholic Reaction Force.

iskra1916

Gee Bag wrote: »

The INLA had repeated feuds with the Official IRA as they were a splinter group from that organisation. The only time the officals seeemed eager to send guns to Belfast was when there was a feud to be settled.

As has been stated above the INLA had pretensions towards marxism and the like which was in contrast to the old school catholic/nationalist views of the Provos. They got occasional help from and were occasionaly shoved around by the Provos eg. in the wake of the hunger strikes when they were not allowed share speaking platforms or given a share of money raised by NORAID for huger strikers families.

The INLA's biggest enemy was the INLA. They were constantly feuding with each other, ambushing each other, stealing weapons from each others dumps, and setting up splinter groups. In the mid 1980's they were hit hard by supergrass trials ie. a single informer's word getting a lot of their members locked up (Harry Kirkpatrick being the best known).

The IPLO, a splinter group of the INLA who's members were heavily involved in crime were 'decommissioned' in a single night by the Provos in 1992 - leader killed and 20-30 members kneecapped (with assault rifles as an extra fcuk you).

Though they professed to be non-sectarian their membership consisted of a high proportion of loons, especially around the border. Many of their overtly sectarian killings were carried out by a group calling itself the Catholic Reaction Force.

Some of this post is vaguely accurate the rest is pure sensationalism reminiscent of the Sunday World.

The most prolific feudering by any Republican organisation was that carried out between the PIRA and OIRA.

iskra1916

realies wrote: »

Jack holland & henry mc donald wrote the most insightful & fascinating book into the INLA, , INLA: Deadly Divisions,


Well worth a read.

It's sensationalist drivel written by a Sticky, the sources being embittered ex-members.

Gee Bag

iskra1916 wrote: »

Some of this post is vaguely accurate the rest is pure sensationalism reminiscent of the Sunday World.

The most prolific feudering by any Republican organisation was that carried out between the PIRA and OIRA.

What part is inaccurate?

TheUsual

I have not seen any books about the INLA, maybe there is something out there ?
From reading a lot about the Provisional IRA, and having lived through the "Mad Dog" McGlinchey years, I would suggest that the PIRA were policing their own areas and were strictly against drug dealing and the INLA were not.

Tim Pat Coogan has written that the Provo's in Belfast hated the local INLA guys more than the British troops. But there was a weird kind of truce between them.

todolist

Comment deleted
Moderator

iskra1916

TheUsual wrote: »

I have not seen any books about the INLA, maybe there is something out there ?
From reading a lot about the Provisional IRA, and having lived through the "Mad Dog" McGlinchey years, I would suggest that the PIRA were policing their own areas and were strictly against drug dealing and the INLA were not.

Tim Pat Coogan has written that the Provo's in Belfast hated the local INLA guys more than the British troops. But there was a weird kind of truce between them.

The INLA have never been involved in drug-dealing, in fact not one member of the IRSM has ever been convicted of even a simple possession charge. A Garda commissioner actually made that point recently.


re, the PIRA & INLA I dont think their relationship was that stark to be honest, it varied from area to area basically. For instance, Martin McGuiness always hated the INLA/IRSP and therefore in Derry there would have been friction years ago.

The INLA have left the stage following an announcement in Bray in 2009.

re, books - you are right about that, there are lots of books written about the Provisonals and even the Officials but only one, Deadly Divisions, about the IRSM. 'DD' is a hatchet job basically, it would be like reading a history of the British Trades unions by Margaret Thatcher.

A good source of info about the history of the IRSP is: http://www.irsp.ie/

Gee Bag

Deadly Divisions was written by Henry McDonald, the Guardian's Irish correspondent and the now deceased Belfast journalist Jack Holland. The fact that it is now in it's third edition is a good indication that it has stood the test of time.

So far this is the only book written about the INLA because they were a very minor organistaion during the Troubles. In general histories of the troubles the INLA are just a footnote. Simply put, nobody else could be arsed writing about them.

How you can suggest that this book is a hatchet job pr propaganda (your daft Maggie Thatcher comparison) and then suggest the IRSP website as a good source of impartial info is beyond belief.

Here's a short quote from George Orwell's ninteen-eightyfour explaining the concept of Doublethink......

"The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them....To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just as long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies - all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth"

TheUsual

iskra1916 wrote: »

re, books - you are right about that, there are lots of books written about the Provisonals and even the Officials but only one, Deadly Divisions, about the IRSM. 'DD' is a hatchet job basically, it would be like reading a history of the British Trades unions by Margaret Thatcher.

A good source of info about the history of the IRSP is: http://www.irsp.ie/

Sounds like you know your stuff, maybe you should write that book.
Too many books on "The Troubles" written by agenda-driven muppets and stickies these days.

iskra1916

TheUsual wrote: »

Sounds like you know your stuff, maybe you should write that book.
Too many books on "The Troubles" written by agenda-driven muppets and stickies these days.

GRMA for the vote of confidence.

The ORM and then the Workers Party have had quite an influence on the Irish media over this past 40 years.
At one time there was an RTE cumann of the Workers Party

The 'Lost Revolution' by Hanley & Miller is a great read about the rise and fall of the ORM/Workers Party.
It does mention the irps in parts of the book

Tupamaros

Gee Bag wrote: »

Deadly Divisions was written by Henry McDonald, the Guardian's Irish correspondent and the now deceased Belfast journalist Jack Holland. The fact that it is now in it's third edition is a good indication that it has stood the test of time.

So far this is the only book written about the INLA because they were a very minor organistaion during the Troubles. In general histories of the troubles the INLA are just a footnote. Simply put, nobody else could be arsed writing about them.

How you can suggest that this book is a hatchet job pr propaganda (your daft Maggie Thatcher comparison) and then suggest the IRSP website as a good source of impartial info is beyond belief.

Here's a short quote from George Orwell's ninteen-eightyfour explaining the concept of Doublethink......

The fact it's in its 3rd edition means it has stood the test of time? LOL

Henry McDonald was a stick, the INLA and the OIRA killed plenty of each others members after the OIRA killed Hugh Ferguson. You honestly expect to get a decent history of the IRSM from such a source?

There is an agenda behind that book and it's not a piece of history, it's openly hostile all throughout the book. It describes Jim Lane, a well-respected and lifelong trade unionist and political activists as having 'fantasy politics'. It tries to resurrect Gerard Steenson ie. 'Dr. Death', who later join the criminal cabal known as the IPLO, as some kind of great political thinker. Why would the author do this?

Deadly Divisions starts out ok, but the middle and the end are basically sensationalist crap, hearsay and nonsense from a person who couldn't have been more hostile to the IRSM.

Even in the recently updated edition he gets rudimentary facts wrong, such as identifying someone as a member of the INLA who had nothing to do with the IRSM at any stage. It's a hatchet job, and a poor one at that, basic things like what I mentioned are wrong. Like how hard is it to check what wing a republican prisoner went on to?

Tiocfaidh Armani

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

According to Tim Pat Coogan, it was often influenced by geography with certain Belfast estates being more sympathetic to the INLA.

Some were socialists but I got the feeling they were no different to IRA members in their outlook. It was just 'Brits Out'.

iskra1916

Gee Bag wrote: »

Deadly Divisions was written by Henry McDonald, the Guardian's Irish correspondent and the now deceased Belfast journalist Jack Holland. The fact that it is now in it's third edition is a good indication that it has stood the test of time.

So far this is the only book written about the INLA because they were a very minor organistaion during the Troubles. In general histories of the troubles the INLA are just a footnote. Simply put, nobody else could be arsed writing about them.

How you can suggest that this book is a hatchet job pr propaganda (your daft Maggie Thatcher comparison) and then suggest the IRSP website as a good source of impartial info is beyond belief.

Here's a short quote from George Orwell's ninteen-eightyfour explaining the concept of Doublethink......

You sound very upset, why?


:rolleyes: The bible is the most re-published book in the world, so by your rationale it is accurate.....hmmm.

Three of the H-Block Hunger Strikers were from the IRSM, you may not realise that.

Deadly Divisions is of course a hatchet job by a hack whose sources were embittered ex-members & Stickies. Bizarrely, MacDonald pours scorn on the IRSP's Marxism while his party's 'intelligentsia' were jtting off to & singing the praises of North Korea.

Perhaps my analogy with Thatcher & the NUM wasnt exactly right. Lets just say it was the equivalent of a history of Sinn Fein 1997-2011 being written by Malachy O'Doherty relying on primary sources like Eamon Collins, Denis Donaldson et al.

iskra1916

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

Some were socialists but I got the feeling they were no different to IRA members in their outlook. It was just 'Brits Out'.

A chara, the IRSP emerged from the Official IRA & the RSM's raison d'etre has always been to stress the symbiotic relationship between a re-united Ireland and economic liberty for the Irish working-class.

As Connolly stated, 'the cause of Ireland is the cause of labor' this would be the IRSP's primary premise

Gee Bag

First off before you start the accusations that I am a stickie, west brit, , Provo, loyalist brigadeer, or worst of all an ex-PD I want to make it perfectly clear that I am not. A plague on all your houses I say.

This is the history forum, the general purpose of which as I understand it is to have objective debate about history. Kind of hard to have that though with two people who seem prepared to apologise/excuse everything the INLA did.

The reason I mentioned the book by Henry McDonald & Jack Holland is because it is the only one available about the INLA. As far as I'm concerned it gives a very accurate overview of the INLA and the constant feuding and the murders, crime and torture they engaged in.

Your problem with the book appears to be that one of the authors Henry McDonald was a former member of an organisation that was hostile to the IRSP. Following the link posted by iskra1916 leads to a page that lists all of the groups hostile to the IRSP. It includes pretty much everyone except the cub scouts and the Legion of Mary! My own personal favourites are 'the free state media & the pro-brit media'

http://iskra1916.hubpages.com/hub/Irish-Republican-Socialist-Party

You also seem to ignore the fact that the book was co-authored by Jack Holland, but I'm sure you'll be able to find some problems with him.

Just because someone writes a book about a group doesn't mean that it has to be a hagiography. Nor does it have to be based solely on what the members of that organisation want outsiders to see. If you want to learn about Nazi Germany you wouldn't just read Mein Kampf.

For anyone interested a list of INLA actions is available by following the link below. Ye can decide for yourselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Irish_National_Liberation_Army_actions

Snickers Man

Tupamaros wrote: »

The IRSP/INLA....wish to agitate politically, defend working class areas from attack and confront British imperialism. ...


The movement broke from the ORM and was under the leadership of Seamus Costello, universally regarded as an exceptional political talent.

The late popular Dublin TD was very close to Costello and he joined the IRSP at this early stage. Bernadette McAliskey was also a prominent early member.

Seamus Costello might have had a slightlly higher functioning brain than some of the meat heads in the INLA but that's a long way short of being "universally regarded as an exceptional political talent."


Anybody with any sense in that "movement" was either snuffed out early on (Costello) or very quickly made their excuses and left, (McAliskey) hoping that nobody would ever remember their dalliance with such a bunch of yahoos.

Their Socialism was that of the Student Union, all sound bite and fake indignation, barely tainted by sincerity. In action they were/are rabid "state capitalists", quick to make the fastest buck in the dirtiest way and instinctive believers in the adage that a monopoly enforced by the gun with themselves behind the trigger is the most efficient business method.

That's if any of them are left. As I said "Who misses them?"

Young ned of the hill

Snickers Man wrote: »

Seamus Costello might have had a slightlly higher functioning brain than some of the meat heads in the INLA but that's a long way short of being "universally regarded as an exceptional political talent."


Anybody with any sense in that "movement" was either snuffed out early on (Costello) or very quickly made their excuses and left, (McAliskey) hoping that nobody would ever remember their dalliance with such a bunch of yahoos.

Their Socialism was that of the Student Union, all sound bite and fake indignation, barely tainted by sincerity. In action they were/are rabid "state capitalists", quick to make the fastest buck in the dirtiest way and instinctive believers in the adage that a monopoly enforced by the gun with themselves behind the trigger is the most efficient business method.

That's if any of them are left. As I said "Who misses them?"

You seem hold a lot of resentment towards them. I have actually had the good fortune to meet a few as last while and I have it has completely change my opinion of them. To make such comparisons about there socialism is beyond farcical. If you believe it ended with Costello then I would urge you to read ‘Ta Powers’ Document. There is hell of a lot of new talent springing up within the IRSM. Their beginning to made in roads right across the board. From Trades councils to students unions, they stood quite a few councillors in the six counties in May election. They have held true to there working class roots. So fair play to them.

dubhthach

Mod
Folks this is topic in the History forum. If you want to have a debate about current state of IRSM take it to the Politics forum.