Noticing how someone smells

I don't know if I'm the only one that does it, but I always realise that I like a guy when I start noticing how they smell. It starts off as a 'Oh, you smell nice' when he's standing next to me, and before I know it I can smell him from across a room.
There's a similar process when a guy I DON'T like approaches me. I can smell him, but I don't like it. Instead it feels intrusive and overpowering. I'll try to stand as far away as possible for fear of getting the scent on me.
I don't know if other people get this, it may be because I have delicate senses. But I have found that it's useful for deciding whether or not to approach someone. I completely fail at nonverbal communication (and a lot of the times I fail at verbal, too), so I get the feeling it's my body's own way of compensating for that.

blue5000

there has been some research done where men were asked to wear a t shirt for a day. Then girls were asked to smell the t shirts and identify which ones they thought smelt nice. Researchers then looked at the dna of the girls and guy 'pairs' as identified by whose t shirts the girls liked and they found they were ideal mates, ie dna base would be broader if they mated, as opposed to if they mated with the guys whose t shirts were unattractive.

HOWEVER there is a catch, girls who were on the pill liked the smell of t shirts worn by guys who were totally WRONG for them.

So if you're a girl on the pill watch out if you like a guy's smell.

WesternNight

blue5000 wrote: »

there has been some research done where men were asked to wear a t shirt for a day. Then girls were asked to smell the t shirts and identify which ones they thought smelt nice. Researchers then looked at the dna of the girls and guy 'pairs' as identified by whose t shirts the girls liked and they found they were ideal mates, ie dna base would be broader if they mated, as opposed to if they mated with the guys whose t shirts were unattractive.

HOWEVER there is a catch, girls who were on the pill liked the smell of t shirts worn by guys who were totally WRONG for them.

So if you're a girl on the pill watch out if you like a guy's smell.

That could be quite interesting.

Have you a link for this research?

blue5000

had a quick look on google

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/2052

Its similar but not the one I'm looking for

this could be more interesting

http://www.biology.lsu.edu/webfac/jstephens/notes/pheremone%20paper%202002.pdf

Wibbs

The pill's effect on these kinda choices is interesting alright. I've read a couple of things on it. None online sadly, except I think there was something referencing it on the BBC website not so long ago.

Like blue5000 said it seems to be about selecting for a good genetic mix that results in a stronger immune response in any children produced. People attracted to each other tend to have different immune systems.

From what Ive read women are much more driven by this. Makes sense I suppose as they've more to lose by making the wrong choice as reproduction for women is more costly, both physically and socially.

For years it was believed pheromones, olfactory clues and their actions in humans was insignificant enough. We didnt seem to have the required physiology for it. I read an article a year ago in which a researcher has found evidence in humans of an olfactory nerve found in other animals that responds to these cues. Nerve zero IIRC, connected to the base of the brain.

One stat that I recall was that if a woman met and married a man while on the pill and then came off the pill during the relationship, the divorce rate was significantly higher. Something mad like three times higher. Similar could be seen in non married couples apparently.

It has been measured in a few studies, that fertile women select for different male types in the course of their menstrual cycle. At their most fertile they select for men who exhibit high testosterone in their external features and have very different immune systems. More caveman types . At their least fertile, or when pregnant they select for less testosterone features, more feminine men with similar immune systems(more like sibings). The idea being that they want high test males to get pregnant by, but prefer low test males to raise the children. High test males are more likely to be "bad boys", impulsive, aggressive and more likely to stray. Not a good mix around children or to base a longtermer with.

Since the pill mimics pregnancy, the theory goes that women will select the a man with a closer immune system and more "feminised" than she would when fertile. That would lead to issues if she comes off it. He may start to look more like a "brother" to her.

As an aside may it even reduce the ability of the couple to reproduce, if they were slightly incompatible because of initial selection? Might this be why there seems to be more couples having difficulty getting pregnant?

We're very complex people though and that goes double for individuals. Plus women vary a lot even when naturally pregnant. EG some have very high libido, while others very low. Same with the pill. Some women go off sex on the pill, some go the other way. Some put on weight, some do not. etc so no doubt some women are more influenced by their hormonal selections.

Wibbs

One link http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/birth-control-change-human-attraction-study-claims/story?id=8772136

I wonder do women who smoke also make the wrong choices as the sense of smell is compromised.

One interesting notion I read was that the pill may be even effecting the type of male sex symbols women go for these days. More boyish "pretty" men and less the hairy macho man type.

WesternNight

That really is very interesting, Wibbs.

I'd heard before about women being attracted to different features at different times in their cycle, which makes sense. But I'd never heard anything about the pill having those effects. Lots of food for thought!

karma403

Wonder where that leaves me then, I have a very poor sense of smell.

Wow, Blue, Wibbs that's all really interesting! I guess there is some method behind this.
Makes me glad that at least one fragment of my social instincts isn't skewed.

banshee_bones

Was there anything done to see how the reverse works? Like if a girl is on the pill with a guy she likes/moderately attracted to, or no real interest in atall, if she came off the pill and all of a sudden had interest or was more attracted to the guy?

Scarinae

I've been on the pill since before I met my boyfriend. And I LOVE his smell

metrovelvet

It would suggest that staying on the pill would increase your chances of not changing your mind about your bf.

It's kind of scary how out of control it is. All part of Nature's sinister plot. Im surprised more of us don't cheat given how our tastes change according to our cycles.

metrovelvet

It would also be interesting to know if a man's changes how attracted he is to you once you are on the pill and if the pill is altering the chemicals and pheromones you send out.

See this study on primates:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100727201507.htm

princess-lala

I'm on the pill and I smoke! Now I know why I've been making all the wrong decisions with men

blue5000

princess-lala wrote: »

I'm on the pill and I smoke! Now I know why I've been making all the wrong decisions with men

Hey Princess looks like you'll have to find a man who smells gross!

Ickle Magoo

Mmmmm, smells and pheromones! :cool:

I have actually asked guys out and ended relationships based how they smell, the right smell can actually make me want to jump a guy there and then - the wrong smell is clawing and sour and horrible. I'm glad it's not just me - and also glad I wasn't/amn't on the pill - do you know if other forms of hormonal contraception affects smell/choice Wibbs?

G86

I remember reading something on here before about the pill and changes in attraction...anyone have a link to the thread? Could be interesting to pull up. Think you posed in it Wibbs?

blue5000

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Mmmmm, smells and pheromones! :cool:

I have actually asked guys out and ended relationships based how they smell, the right smell can actually make me want to jump a guy there and then - the wrong smell is clawing and sour and horrible. I'm glad it's not just me - and also glad I wasn't/amn't on the pill - do you know if other forms of hormonal contraception affects smell/choice Wibbs?

There could be lots of smelly t-shirts in the post soon:eek:

Ickle Magoo

Heh, heh. I'm married now, that's why I was asking if other forms of contraception affects smell - and they'd need to get hold of my address first. :P

Wibbs

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I have actually asked guys out and ended relationships based how they smell,

Funny when I first read about this and looking back, I'm convinced the pill had something to do with one of my breakups. In that case it was her starting it. And on both sides too. For no real reason and pretty much out of the blue, with no other obvious factors in play, we went off each other. This was only 6 months in too, when you'd expect the randiness to be running high. We got on well as people, but overnight it was like brother and sister. Had similar when I met one of the most beautiful women Ive ever laid eyes on. Brilliant personality too. We fancied each other, but went out on a date, kissed and nada. For both of us. On some smell/taste/biological level we didnt click. The song "its in his kiss" seems to have a lot of truth in it. It may even be why women prefer kissing more and for longer than men and put more store in a man being a "good kisser". They're picking up the reproductive health signals through taste and smell.

This stuff effects men too, though men are less sensitive(or not as studied of course). A health survey of lap dancers in the US threw up an interesting aside. Those lap dancers on the pill get fewer tips and dance requests. Its been long well known in the biz apparently, so many dancers avoid it. Dancers also get more tips around ovulation time. Men it appears have less interest in non ovulating women and even less interest in pregnant women if they're not the father. Makes sense too. I've read another one which showed men prefer the scent of ovulating women. They also can recognise the smell of their partner. I'd defo believe that. I would be fairly sure I could recognise the smell of partners.

There was a book a few years ago, Sperm Wars, that while controversial and disputed had some interesting theories. One which seems to have a basis is how mens fertility changes depending on context. If a couple are trying for a baby the advice was either do the deed as much as possible or take a break so the quality of sperm could build up. Apparently one researcher found another way. If a man and women live together his sperm output levels out and reduces(as does his level of testosterone. Single men have higher). If they stay together and dont do the deed for a week, the levels dont go up by much. However if they separate for a week, his levels really go up. The theory being that because he cant be sure what she got up to while they were apart his quality of sperm goes up to make sure of pregnancy when next they meet(the amount of babies that result from soldiers coming home on leave may have some connection). Another one that deserves more research was if his partner wore the tee shirt of another man, his levels went through the roof. Women who have affairs overwhelmingly tend to have affairs with single men(and high test males). Which seems obvious enough, but maybe because their "animal brain" chooses those men because their fertility is higher? You would think it logically safer to have an affair with a man in a relationship as both would have more to lose if discovered. Fascinating stuff altogether.

do you know if other forms of hormonal contraception affects smell/choice Wibbs?

Puts research doctorate on wall. Not! From the stuff I've read its only mentioned the pill, but I would presume any form of contraception that alters the sex hormones would have some effect and whatever effect would be down to the dosage and the individuals response to it? Something like the full old style pill would have the biggest, the mini pill less kinda thing? Though again presumably any contraception that mimics pregnancy or the infertile times between ovulation would have the effect. Where's an endocrinologist when you need one?

G86 wrote: »

I remember reading something on here before about the pill and changes in attraction...anyone have a link to the thread? Could be interesting to pull up. Think you posed in it Wibbs?

Oh no doubt I posed in it alright

Its a good while ago and god knows what the thread title was.

metrovelvet

Wibbs wrote: »

Funny when I first read about this and looking back, I'm convinced the pill had something to do with one of my breakups. In that case it was her starting it. And on both sides too. For no real reason and pretty much out of the blue, with no other obvious factors in play, we went off each other. This was only 6 months in too, when you'd expect the randiness to be running high. We got on well as people, but overnight it was like brother and sister.

It's not uncommon for the pill to kill a woman's sex drive. It makes sense though as your body is "tricked' into thinking its already pregnant.

Wibbs wrote: »

. Apparently one researcher found another way. If a man and women live together his sperm output levels out and reduces(as does his level of testosterone. Single men have higher). If they stay together and dont do the deed for a week, the levels dont go up by much. However if they separate for a week, his levels really go up. The theory being that because he cant be sure what she got up to while they were apart his quality of sperm goes up to make sure of pregnancy when next they meet(the amount of babies that result from soldiers coming home on leave may have some connection).

Absence makes the heart [and other organs] grow fonder it would seem.

Fascinating stuff.

Wibbs

princess-lala wrote: »

I'm on the pill and I smoke! Now I know why I've been making all the wrong decisions with men

Funny enough, looking back I've never had any kind of long termer with a woman on the pill(and in that one case above when she went on it we split up very soon after) . Which is a bit strange considering how many women are on hormonal contraception.

metrovelvet wrote: »

It's not uncommon for the pill to kill a woman's sex drive. It makes sense though as your body is "tricked' into thinking its already pregnant.

True. Again though it varies with individuals and this is why looking at stuff like this the variables are so high. Some women get randier on the pill/when pregnant. Same with weight gain. Some women can gain more weight on the pill/when pregnant than others. I knew one guy who noted this for different reasons. He got engaged and one of his mates joked with him about his strong preference for thin women and how that would change when they started a family. His wife had gained a fair bit of weight but it was of no matter to him but he reckoned the newly engaged guy would have an issue. His response was no worries shes been on the pill for years and didnt gain a pound and her sex drive remained high. Sure enough when they did have a couple of kids she stayed the same size after. He was a weirdo though, thinking like that.

Absence makes the heart [and other organs] grow fonder it would seem.

Yea it seems to and also shows that while we may consciously completely trust our partners, the old reptile brain isnt nearly so sure. Another one was that women who have affairs have more sex with the affair guy around ovulation and have sex with the primary partner when not.

Fascinating stuff.

That it is. Though I firmly believe we're not slaves to this stuff, I do wonder how much choice we have in more subtle ways. I think attraction wise we have a lot less choice. I reckon men may have more funny enough. I've noted this with my mates. The women have more examples of being drawn to some guy or other, even when its bad for them in many ways. The guys seem to do this less. The guys tend to give a list of reasons if asked why they're into someone. The women tend to feel it more.

banshee_bones

Showed my friend this thread last night, shes now quite worried but has somehow convinced herself that since shes on the implant shes less affected by it I told her I think it goes for all hormonal contraceptives!

It really is amazing and makes you wonder how much control you really have over your choices.

Pembily

That could explan an awful lot!!!! Only problem is I am not the pill by choice so can't just come off it and find the right person

Hormones are the devil...

I do love a guy who smells good And nothing worse than BO :eek:

metrovelvet

banshee_bones wrote: »

Showed my friend this thread last night, shes now quite worried but has somehow convinced herself that since shes on the implant shes less affected by it I told her I think it goes for all hormonal contraceptives!

It really is amazing and makes you wonder how much control you really have over your choices.

I think its good to be reminded that we are still animals at the bottom line but it really does shake up the delusions of mastery doesn't it?

Ickle Magoo

Wibbs wrote: »

Puts research doctorate on wall. Not! From the stuff I've read its only mentioned the pill, but I would presume any form of contraception that alters the sex hormones would have some effect and whatever effect would be down to the dosage and the individuals response to it? Something like the full old style pill would have the biggest, the mini pill less kinda thing? Though again presumably any contraception that mimics pregnancy or the infertile times between ovulation would have the effect. Where's an endocrinologist when you need one?

Sorry, that's what you get for earning the title of resident expert!

Yeah, I read some things about/from the sperm wars book - made a lot of sense, I thought.

I was on the depo injections when I met Mr Magoo, when we decided to start a family I stopped and got pregnant weeks after the next injection was due despite being told it should take months for my cycle to return and start ovulating - and he smelled (still does of course!) yummy, one of the first things I noticed about him. I didn't have a period in 4 yrs and yet managed to get pregnant twice, so I think our bodies often know a great deal more about what to do and when, than we do. :pac:

Dravokivich

There's a really good documentary here that I watched earlier in the year that explains it casually.

The Agogo

Fishie wrote: »

I've been on the pill since before I met my boyfriend. And I LOVE his smell

I've just started going out with a girl who's on the pill. Hope she still likes me after!

starlit

Ya, I am very sensitive to smells and scents, I'm not on the pill though. Have heard that the pill can affect a girl's choice of partner alright or when she is on the rag or ovulating can vary what kind of fellow she would choose!

Bonito

metrovelvet wrote: »

It would suggest that staying on the pill would increase your chances of not changing your mind about your bf.

It's kind of scary how out of control it is. All part of Nature's sinister plot. Im surprised more of us don't cheat given how our tastes change according to our cycles.

So if a girl were to go on the pill after she has met her BF, she could just turn off him after going on the pill?

Wibbs

Not really. It just seems a little more likely her opinion may change. No way is it any sort of hard and fast rule, by any stretch. Too many variables. Plus any of the stuff I've read on it, it seems it's more the case if a woman meets someone when she's already on the pill and then goes off it. Not the other way around. Hmmm, maybe because the pill mimics pregnancy, so the mind may think, "Im pregnant, but alone, better get someone" Then when they stop taking it, that need is a lot less. If the same woman meets a guy then goes on the pill it should be less of an issue as the body is expecting to get pregnant with him in the first place?

Either way these things are pretty subtle. Women are also more drawn to he man types when they're at their most fertile. It doesnt mean that women are cheating on their boyfriends every 28 days.