Ford 1.8 TDCi issues - 2008 cars onwards.

shamwari

Anyone here got an 08 onwards Ford fitted with the 1.8TDCi engine, and has had engine trouble with it? If so, can you give me some idea what happened with it?

The cars I'm interested in are the Focus / CMax / SMax / Mondeo. Please report only with the above engine and from '08 onwards...;)

Mr Benevolent

Did Mazda get involved with the engine design perchance? Seriously though, never heard of any problems with recent Ford diesels.

Bodhan

No problems with the 1.8 that I've heard of. Very different cars you're looking at in that list though

R.O.R

We'd have a good few on fleet, and I really can't remember any issues with any of them.

Hasn't that engine been about since 1960 or something?

OP - any reasoning behind the request? I'm guessing from some of your very knowledgable previous posts that you are a mechanic?

The only thing I'll say about the 1.8Tdci lump is that it's pretty crap in the S-Max/Galaxy/Mondeo. Lag is horrific and it's incrediby easy to stall.

shamwari

R.O.R wrote: »

We'd have a good few on fleet, and I really can't remember any issues with any of them.

Hasn't that engine been about since 1960 or something?

OP - any reasoning behind the request? I'm guessing from some of your very knowledgable previous posts that you are a mechanic?

The only thing I'll say about the 1.8Tdci lump is that it's pretty crap in the S-Max/Galaxy/Mondeo. Lag is horrific and it's incrediby easy to stall.

I had a chat with a buddy in the UK who tells me that they are seeing particlar problems affecting this engine in the cars mentioned from 08 on. I don't want to start saying I heard "this rumour and that rumour" and then this causes all sorts of misplaced reponses. I'd like to judge on what people have genuinely experienced with that cars in question over here.

The issue with lag in the cars you mentioned ROR might have a bearing on this. Once such issue relates to excess sooting of the vanes in the turbo, and this causes overboost problems. A clean out, PCM upgrade to modify EGR operation, and a good hard drive is the prescribed cure for that one! I am told that before the overboost occurs (when the vanes jam in the max boost position), the time it takes the turbo to spool up (lag) increases noticeably.

The other issue potential / alleged issue I heard of is that a batch of faulty injectors may have been fitted to some 08/09 Focus's 1.8 TDCi's, and this manifests itself as lumpy or poor running, the car going into limp mode, and fault code being stored for the injector concerned.

In the case of both issues I've heard above, there does not seem to be issues with them here in Ireland, but they are supposed to be known in the UK. It might be down to the fact that they drive more diesels over there than we do here. Anyone, not wishing to cause alarm, but one to watch if you are in the trade

Just to add that this engine originally stated life in the early 80's as a 1608cc diesel in the Fiesta and Escort producing around 45bhp. It was the first engine I did a timing belt on!! It was bored out to just under 1800cc in the late 80's. It was turbocharged in the Mondeo and Escort in the mid '90's. It received a fly-by-wire pump and direct injection head for the Focus from '99 onwards, and common railed in 2002. It also got a VGT a year or two later and subtle updates and DPF now have it at 115bhp and Euro5 compliant. Ford call it the Lynx engine now. In all the time I've worked on one, I have never seen one blow a head gasket or put a conrod through the block. It is a very very strong engine!

Drummerboy08

There is a massive recall in UK and Ireland on any Ford with the 1.8TDCI unit at the minute, something to do with the salt on the roads corroding the cooling fan module causing it to overheat and go up in flames.

Other than that, havent heard any problems with the 1.8 unit.

DaveJac

fairly old engine really just updated every now and then, One of the turbo pipes breaks at a mounting point repalced loads of them when i was working with ford not a major problem you will down in power and will have oil all over the engine

Mr Benevolent

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

There is a massive recall in UK and Ireland on any Ford with the 1.8TDCI unit at the minute, something to do with the salt on the roads corroding the cooling fan module causing it to overheat and go up in flames.

Other than that, havent heard any problems with the 1.8 unit.

We don't use salt on our roads, we use grit and molasses AFAIK.

Drummerboy08

Confab wrote: »

We don't use salt on our roads, we use grit and molasses AFAIK.

Yeah I know, the recall has still been issued here, i'd say due to the high number of uk imports in the last few years.

Sikie

Have this engine in a Galaxy and I was told on the last service that a noise in coming from the gearbox could be a dual mass flywheel going.
Between the reaction of the service manager to a pointed question on why this should be failing and the car with only 40k km so I thought this sounds like a ford design fault. Googling through UK motor forums has reinforced this theory for me. However the car is now outside the warrant

R.O.R

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

There is a massive recall in UK and Ireland on any Ford with the 1.8TDCI unit at the minute, something to do with the salt on the roads corroding the cooling fan module causing it to overheat and go up in flames.

Other than that, havent heard any problems with the 1.8 unit.

Wasn't it the same recall last year for the 1.6Tdci's? Think it was just 06's and we had shed loads. Early 07 S40 1.6d's were recalled as well for the same thing.

Drummerboy08

R.O.R wrote: »

Wasn't it the same recall last year for the 1.6Tdci's? Think it was just 06's and we had shed loads. Early 07 S40 1.6d's were recalled as well for the same thing.

Yeah I think it was the same for the 1.6TDCi now that you mention it. We've a shedload due to come back still that never got the recall carried out.

shamwari

Sikie wrote: »

Have this engine in a Galaxy and I was told on the last service that a noise in coming from the gearbox could be a dual mass flywheel going.
Between the reaction of the service manager to a pointed question on why this should be failing and the car with only 40k km so I thought this sounds like a ford design fault. Googling through UK motor forums has reinforced this theory for me. However the car is now outside the warrant

Would that not be the VAG unit in that? Or are they using the 1.8's on that now too? Either way, deperately bad luck that the DMF has gone so soon.

DaveJac

shamwari wrote: »

Would that not be the VAG unit in that? Or are they using the 1.8's on that now too? Either way, deperately bad luck that the DMF has gone so soon.

The new Galaxy is a Ford not a shared platform like the old model that was Ford VW and Seat

Sikie

The 1.8 in the Galaxy is identical to the Mondeo

unkel

Sikie wrote: »

Have this engine in a Galaxy and I was told on the last service that a noise in coming from the gearbox could be a dual mass flywheel going.
Between the reaction of the service manager to a pointed question on why this should be failing and the car with only 40k km so I thought this sounds like a ford design fault. Googling through UK motor forums has reinforced this theory for me. However the car is now outside the warrant

DMF is not just a Ford design fault, it is a failed technology. My neighbour just forked out €2.5k on his 3 year old Korean car (just outside warranty) for a DMF fix (including timing belt and full service, but still ridiculous money on a nearly new econobox)

gearoidz

Just had the timing belt go in my 1.8 TDCi 2008 Galaxy which wrecked the engine @ only 104K kms. I got it 2nd hand 1.5 years ago .. serviced it in a Ford garage last year but since it had no prior service history I had no comeback. Supposedly the timing belt should be good for 200K kms.
Anyway looking for a replacement engine ... anyone know where I might get one?

Larbre34

gearoidz wrote: »

Just had the timing belt go in my 1.8 TDCi 2008 Galaxy which wrecked the engine @ only 104K kms. I got it 2nd hand 1.5 years ago .. serviced it in a Ford garage last year but since it had no prior service history I had no comeback. Supposedly the timing belt should be good for 200K kms.
Anyway looking for a replacement engine ... anyone know where I might get one?

No, 200k kms would be pushing it in the extreme, however you were still very unfortunate to have it go at 104k, that would be the edge of the recommended replacement window.....

George Dalton

Larbre34 wrote: »

No, 200k kms would be pushing it in the extreme, however you were still very unfortunate to have it go at 104k, that would be the edge of the recommended replacement window.....

The recommended replacement interval is 200,000km.

We towed in a 2008 Focus this morning with a broken belt as well co-incidentally. Also broken ahead of the recommended replacement interval.

Bpmull

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Yeah I think it was the same for the 1.6TDCi now that you mention it. We've a shedload due to come back still that never got the recall carried out.

I have a 1.6tdci focus 07 how do you find out if the car was recalled as I'm sure it's only the previous owner that gets a letter about the recall?

gearoidz

An available engine at the moment, the asking price is €1,750 with ~40,000 Kms on it, 3 month warranty.
The garage have quoted €3,100 (inclusive of VAT) to buy and install the engine.
Seems a bit pricey to me.
Will try and find better before executing on the above.
Sourcing one in the UK will mean shipping costs and any warranty problems will be more expensive because it will need more shipping .. as well as the labour.

Am I limited to the exact same engine that it had?
One garage said any engine from 2006 on (I presume from the same Galaxy) another gave it as a 1.8 TD Ci Duratorq Lynx 125ps. I think these are also used in Mondeos and the Focus.

@ George D - Are they in the same boat as me? I put mine in to 2nd before it stopped to see that it hadn't seized probably wrecking it more.

Is there driver behavior that can shorten the lifetime of a timing belt - sometimes skipping gears, going from 4th-6th etc.?

George Dalton

gearoidz wrote: »

@ George D - Are they in the same boat as me? I put mine in to 2nd before it stopped to see that it hadn't seized probably wrecking it more.

What is the extent of the damage to your engine? We haven't stripped this one down yet so we don't know for sure but I reckon we will be able to repair it.

gearoidz

George Dalton wrote: »

What is the extent of the damage to your engine? We haven't stripped this one down yet so we don't know for sure but I reckon we will be able to repair it.

The detail I got off the mechanic who looked at mine was that any of the engine could not be reliable salvaged and I needed a replacement. I was on the motorway doing 120kmph when the belt snapped so he's likely correct?
I asked about using half of it and half of another but he said no - it would likely be costly to do and unreliable after.

gearoidz

Larbre34 wrote: »

No, 200k kms would be pushing it in the extreme, however you were still very unfortunate to have it go at 104k, that would be the edge of the recommended replacement window.....

The service manager at a Ford garage I was talking to gave me the 200,000 kms replacement figure for the timing belt.

George Dalton

gearoidz wrote: »

The detail I got off the mechanic who looked at mine was that any of the engine could not be reliable salvaged and I needed a replacement. I was on the motorway doing 120kmph when the belt snapped so he's likely correct?
I asked about using half of it and half of another but he said no - it would likely be costly to do and unreliable after.

Stripped the Focus today. All four pistons are cracked. All of the valves are bent and most of the valve guides are damaged. So a pretty big mess

Smash The House

George Dalton wrote: »

The recommended replacement interval is 200,000km.

We towed in a 2008 Focus this morning with a broken belt as well co-incidentally. Also broken ahead of the recommended replacement interval.

gearoidz wrote: »

The detail I got off the mechanic who looked at mine was that any of the engine could not be reliable salvaged and I needed a replacement. I was on the motorway doing 120kmph when the belt snapped so he's likely correct?
I asked about using half of it and half of another but he said no - it would likely be costly to do and unreliable after.

Holy crap!

I'd like to report a third instance of this happening. A friend's Galaxy's timing belt also died while driving on a motorway just a couple of months ago. It only had around 120,000 km on the clock from what I remember I think.
They ended up replacing the engine too.

George Dalton

We have started ringing our customers with cars that are affected to get them to bring them in early for the belt job. Did 2 in the past week that I can say from inspecting the wet belt when it came off would almost certainly not have made it to the 200,000km mark.

We spent a lot of the week fighting with Ford over the Focus I mentioned above to see if they would contribute towards the cost of the repairs but got nowhere because the first few services on the car were slightly over the recommended 20,000km interval. Ford reckon this caused the belt failure. I reckon it was their stupid decision to change from the reliable chain setup to the wet belt but they were having none of it.

enumbers

Just spotted this gonna cause me some fun over the next week or so will have to make a few calls to customers with good news, better than the belt snapping but its hard to explain to a customer that they need to spend money that they weren't expecting

George Dalton

enumbers wrote: »

Just spotted this gonna cause me some fun over the next week or so will have to make a few calls to customers with good news, better than the belt snapping but its hard to explain to a customer that they need to spend money that they weren't expecting

The thing is that if it was just a few bent valves when the belt snapped it wouldn't be too bad. But they all seem to be smashing the pistons to bits when the belt lets go so it is a major disaster. I have called every scrap yard in the country looking for an engine for that Focus with no joy.

enumbers

So it looks like bringing the interval back down to 100k is the only safe option, thats crazy when they can make a dry set-up that will happily last 200k. Are these cars irish or english cars, mileage genuine? just clutching at straws here but have enough stuff to deal without this

George Dalton

All three Focuses I mentioned in this thread are Irish cars with full and verifiable history. One is ex Leaseplan (this is the one that broke the belt) and the other two (which we have now changed the belts on) came from AIB Leasing IIRC.

enumbers

thanks for that George seeing so many cars with mileage corrections!!!! the latest been an a3 that was missing 100k was kinda hoping this was the issue rather than the belts not been up to the job. Its nice the way ford were quick to pass the blame onto the service interval not been kept to. If it was a standard belt they wouldn't of had such an easy get out but no doubt they would of found another way out.

George Dalton

enumbers wrote: »

Its nice the way ford were quick to pass the blame onto the service interval not been kept to. If it was a standard belt they wouldn't of had such an easy get out but no doubt they would of found another way out.

Exactly! Few points to note on this.

First of all the upper belts on all of these cars were absolutely perfect. So there is no problem with a belt lasting 200k, it is when the belt is immersed in oil that the problems start.

Secondly Ford customer service in Cork admit that they see several of these claims per week regarding premature failure of the wet belt, apparently all of the claims have some discrepancy in the service history. This is a cop out IMO, in my experience very few 5 year old cars wouldn't have run over a service at least once in its life.

Interestingly, when asked how many claims they see for cars with the lower chain rather than the wet belt, they admit it is none. That says it all really....

enumbers

Its a nightmare situation for me and all of us in the trade that care its very hard to tell a customer that even though the company that manufacturers your car says its 200k I'm telling you its 100k. this is fine for most of my customers who know me but it still looks bad like your looking for work which is not a nice feeling

George Dalton

I know what you mean. It makes it all the worse when you are talking about a €600 job, which is very expensive for a timing belt replacement when compared to say a 1.9TDI Golf or even a 1.6tdci Focus.

enumbers

the 1.6tdci makes it worse for all its faults even at 200k every belt ive done on them. the belt and bearings have all looked like they'd happily take alot longer. Sometimes I really hate my job, I love the work but having to deal with customers and give them bad news to often starts to wear, eg last week 316I 2007 non start could be something simple no chance striped vanos damaged valves extremely expensive repair including headset, valves, vanos units, chain etc. Alot of people appreciate the work we do but the amount of people who treat you like a theif makes it very difficult.

dieselbug

enumbers wrote: »

the 1.6tdci makes it worse for all its faults even at 200k every belt ive done on them. the belt and bearings have all looked like they'd happily take alot longer. Sometimes I really hate my job, I love the work but having to deal with customers and give them bad news to often starts to wear, eg last week 316I 2007 non start could be something simple no chance striped vanos damaged valves extremely expensive repair including headset, valves, vanos units, chain etc. Alot of people appreciate the work we do but the amount of people who treat you like a theif makes it very difficult.

Well there you have it, feeling guilty through no fault of your own. Saw a comment about a week ago by a garage owner whose opinion was

"I often get vehicles which have had their Honey Moon period and have now hit the magic mileage requiring cam belts, spark plugs, expensive diesel fuel filters, pads and discs etc, and people are shocked and say "well its not needed that before at the dealers, their last service was only �120 why do you need to do all this work now. they just don't understand or can't really afford the complex machines they own. and you find yourself justifying yourself trying to help people, its not easy"

Say's it all really

On the other hand I had a guy about a week back with a 2005 landcruiser, full service + timing belt and recommendations for his upcoming DOE Charged accordinally and delighted with the service.

Ones like this restore your faith a bit.

gearoidz

enumbers wrote: »

Its a nightmare situation for me and all of us in the trade that care its very hard to tell a customer that even though the company that manufacturers your car says its 200k I'm telling you its 100k. this is fine for most of my customers who know me but it still looks bad like your looking for work which is not a nice feeling

Just point them to the board here?

The problem with car work is that every car owner feels they have been ripped off or else they know someone who feels they have. I know I feel I have - I had a Primera in a garage a good few years ago and they recommended a clutch change as it was nearly gone. It was fine for at least 5 years after, even after towing a small but heavy tractor up a slipway. The car only died when the cooling failed and the engine overheated. It was an old car at that stage.

Basically I found that every time I put a car in to a garage the bill I got at the end was much larger than I had been told it would be. Now I get garages to quote me for the work before I put it in. They can let me know of other items and I may or may not get them done, depending on the issue. Working this way I have found 1 garage I trust.

Even with the engine problem I am having, the garage it was towed to wouldn't give me information to enable me to try and source the engine myself and was very slow/reluctant to give me the information regarding what the full costs would be. That's when I decided to take it out of there. Even though I settled my bill there they were very unhappy with me not agreeing to them completing the job.

Anyway if you can be honest and upfront with customers that could help in them trusting you to do the work for them fairly and well? If they trust you then they are more likely to return. You might lose some customers this way but these will be the ones that will give you hassle so maybe they are not worth it?

dieselbug

I was in the local Ford dealer parts dept this morning and I mentioned this problem with the 1.8 tdci wet belt to the parts guy who I'd know fairly well.

He was well aware of it and said they have now reduced the change interval to 180klm which equates to 108k miles, not sure if that's enough tbh going on the experiences here.

He did'nt say if this was their local policy or official from Ford.

owen247

Hi,

I was going to post a separate thread for this, but decided to just reply to this thread as the engine in question is the same as mine.

I have just purchased a 2009 Focus 1.8 diesel from a reputable and large dealer, and, when running it is fine power-wise, plenty of drive and acceleration is good, (way more than the '12 Auris 1.4D I have also recently being driving). I've been on a few long motorway, and some rural driving, and it hasn't a problem when running.
The car was fully serviced including new fuel filter, oil filter, air filter etc...

Anyway, the issue started a couple of days after getting the car. Basically, it had been parked in hot weather for two hours, I started it up, it ran for a couple of seconds then cut out. I finally got it going after several attempts and got home. But the following day the problem persisted. Once the car is running, it is fine, but when left for a few hours switched off, it had trouble starting, until eventually it wouldn't start at all, and had to be towed back to the garage.
I had suspected fuel wasn't getting to the injectors, and when the garage got at it they said there was a loose connection and air had got into the fuel system, but it was all tightened up rectified.

Great I thought, and it ran great on the 100k journey home.
Until, the following morning wouldn't start again. Basically I figured out the only way to get it to start now, was to rock the car vigorously whilst turning the starter and then it gets going. but I had to do this every time I started up so now it's back in the Garage. - and I'll have to wait and see what they come back with.

Can anyone comment on what this issue might be? could it be yet another loose connection?

Also, my main concern here is... IS THis a Symptom of Laundered (or Dirty) Diesel??


Here is a video of what I was experiencing... - this was after trying a few times, so you can see it takes a few seconds to even get going before cutting out. (typically it starts immediately as it normally should, then cuts out)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1UN5e8_hIk

George Dalton

dieselbug wrote: »

He did'nt say if this was their local policy or official from Ford.

It must be their local policy because Ford ETIS is still showing the interval as 200,000km.

We ended up having to rebuild the engine in the Focus that broke the belt. The only secondhand engine we could find was €2000. Should have the car back on the road by the end of this week.

whowantstwoknow

Hi all,

Seeing in our house we have a 1.6tdci UK focus @ 116Km & a 2.0tdci UK galaxy @ 130km I decided to read through this thread. Had the focus from 15km and has FSH. The galaxy was bought 2nd hand @ 88km, a FSH bare one (couldnt pin down if a service interval was actually done).

Are either of these engines in the same boat as the ones mentioned above for the 1.8tdci? The last time talking to the mechanic he did mention doing the focus at around the 140km mark (maybe he's aware of these issues?). I'm wondering if my immediate concern would be the galaxy and its mileage? Its not due another service until March 2014? I assume these wet belts are meant to be that way and an inspection by the mechanism would be a waste of time?

Thanks
W.

George Dalton

Neither of those engines have a wet belt. Only the 1.8 engine has.

The 1.6 and the 2.0 are both well capable of doing the 200,000km interval.

turbostan

hi owen247
Sounds like it might be drawing in air.
Could be that the lid on the fuel filter housing is not just sitting 100% or perhaps the rubber seal under it is kinked slightly.
This would only affect it on start-up, if the car's been left sitting for a while, as once its running the fuel pump will keep the diesel flowing.
I presume this problem is worse in the morning than say after being left sitting for just 2 or 3 hours? Although this depends entirely on the extent of the air leak.
Anyway, a simple test would be to fill your tank and park the car facing downward overnight, or jack up the back of it if this is not feasible.
This will prevent the backward flow of fuel from the filter housing (if this IS what's happening) and you can hopefully take it from there!
Let us know how it pans out for ya.

The Pontiac

I'm in the market for a 2007/2008 Transit Connect 1.8 diesel. Have these a belt or a chain? Thanks

turbostan

The Pontiac wrote: »

I'm in the market for a 2007/2008 Transit Connect 1.8 diesel. Have these a belt or a chain? Thanks

Could be either, its around that time they changed it.
For the definitive answer you better ring a Ford dealer, they'll be able to tell you straight away once you give them the chassis number, or the reg if its an Irish van.

The Pontiac

Thanks turbostan. Once I have the van picked out, I'll do as you say.

tinofapples

I have arranged to view a 2009 1.8 Tdci with a view to part exchanging , anything ye guys could recommend me checking for ? Car is apparently ex company car for the defence forces in uk, has all MOT certs but no service history as it was carried out internally by defence forces (apparently). Tosh perhaps ?? I've been a believer that the 1.8 was more reliable than the 1.6 but after reading alot of this thread I'm starting to have doubts about the focus altogether and considering alternatives like an astra diesel estate.

DIESEL TOM

George Dalton wrote: »

The recommended replacement interval is 200,000km.

We towed in a 2008 Focus this morning with a broken belt as well co-incidentally. Also broken ahead of the recommended replacement interval.

hi have 09 focus 83 thousand miles on it. what miles would you think the timing belt should be done it ? would it be ok till 100 thousand ?

mullingar

DIESEL TOM wrote: »

hi have 09 focus 83 thousand miles on it. what miles would you think the timing belt should be done it ? would it be ok till 100 thousand ?

Which engine? The 1.6 seems to last until its design interval, the 1.8 will not. If you have the 1.8 @ 83k miles, get it done ASAP

DIESEL TOM

mullingar wrote: »

Which engine? The 1.6 seems to last until its design interval, the 1.8 will not. If you have the 1.8 @ 83k miles, get it done ASAP

it 1.8tdci with a bill of 600+ coming my way soon .