F.uck off FAS.

The_Joker.

What an exciting idea:

'Labour's education spokesman Ruairi Quinn has called for the closing down of FÁS and the re-directing of training funds to established education.

It has emerged that it has been almost ten months since the Government applied for European Social Funds for the State training agency.

Following a European Union audit of FÁS last November, the European Commission said that in order to protect taxpayers, it wanted issues to be resolved before further funds were requested or paid'

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0903/fas.html

Amhran Nua

And true to form, de nolledge economy's education system is just another big wheeze for the lads.

Owwmykneecap

FAS:Failures at school

Very creative in accounting class though.

Gurgle

This is a rare situation, but Mr Quinn may actually be onto a good idea. FÀS was a complete joke long before we learned that the spent more on Caviar and Stylists than on education, never mind that the 'qualifications' were earned simply by enrolling on the relevant course.

The organization is absolutely corrupt, pointless, ineffective and a complete waste of money. It comes second only to Anglo on the 'Burn it and run' list.

ejmaztec

The only jobs that Fas ever found for anyone were their own.

Myrddin

Gurgle wrote: »

This is a rare situation, but Mr Quinn may actually be onto a good idea. FÀS was a complete joke long before we learned that the spent more on Caviar and Stylists than on education, never mind that the 'qualifications' were earned simply by enrolling on the relevant course.

The organization is absolutely corrupt, pointless, ineffective and a complete waste of money. It comes second only to Anglo on the 'Burn it and run' list.

Jobs for the boys' mates. The place is a farce.

bonerm

EnterNow wrote: »

Jobs for the boys' mates. The place is a farce.

It's pronounced "fawse"

starbelgrade

This is a terrible idea. Where are people going to go now to learn basic computing, blocklaying & hairdressing skills?

monkeyfudge

I learned more in a 6 month FÁS course than I did in 3 years of college education.

ejmaztec

starbelgrade wrote: »

This is a terrible idea. Where are people going to go now to learn basic computing, blocklaying & hairdressing skills?

Ever since I was a young lad, I always wanted to be a block-laying hairdresser, and my life will be destroyed if they pull the plug on this wondrous organisation.:(

checkyabadself

Why is Ruari Quinn NOT in charge of this country?

starbelgrade

monkeyfudge wrote: »

I learned more in a 6 month FÁS course than I did in 3 years of college education.

I'll have a short back & sides, please.

monkeypants

starbelgrade wrote: »

Where are people going to go now to learn basic computing, blocklaying & hairdressing skills?

I'm doing that course the week after next.

mjquinno

monkeyfudge wrote: »

I learned more in a 6 month FÁS course than I did in 3 years of college education.

I did a fas course in computers - learnt a lot!

Miguel_Sanchez

I've actually done a FAS Screentraining Ireland course that was excellent. I've just put an application in for another one this week.

Cavehill Red

Jeff_Lebowski wrote: »

I've actually done a FAS Screentraining Ireland course that was excellent. I've just put an application in for another one this week.

That's Fas all over - training people to qualify them for... what exactly? Why, more Fas training! :rolleyes:
Fas should've been wound down by now. It was a total scam permitting a tiny group of delusionals to act like they were in rock bands - first class travel, swanky hotels, trips to NASA.

Miguel_Sanchez

Cavehill Red wrote: »

That's Fas all over - training people to qualify them for... what exactly? Why, more Fas training! :rolleyes:

Well both of the courses are for screenwriting, one for television, one for feature films.

The first one was 6 years ago and I've been working in the industry for the majority of the time between then and now.

knipex

I know thousands of apprentices over the years that had their training managed by FAS.

Most got an excellent training and many have worked all over the world.

I know at least two senior people in IT that started their careers in IT with a FAS course.

Thousands of skilled workers that trained in FAS (machine operators, welders, fabricators etc.)

I also know many graduates that had their employment opportunities greatly enhanced by completing 6 month FAS courses.

I am not saying that FAS does not have huge problems and that there are not significant issues with management because there are BUT not everything FAS did was worthless. They run a number of useless courses but also a number of very good ones.

mjquinno

Cavehill Red wrote: »

That's Fas all over - training people to qualify them for... what exactly? Why, more Fas training! :rolleyes:
Fas should've been wound down by now. It was a total scam permitting a tiny group of delusionals to act like they were in rock bands - first class travel, swanky hotels, trips to NASA.

maybe your right. im just saying in my instance i did a FAS course i got a job an ive been in the industry ever since (9 years)

There was a lot of good people at fas (trainers etc) i know the higher ups were robbin B*stards.

anyways just my 2 cents.

rhythm90

Having been enrolled in a FáS computing course since February (which will finish in December) - I can honestly say that whilst there is a large amount of wasteage & blatant ****ology that goes on, there are others in my course who have found it to be quite beneficial for them.

I have computer skills better than those which are taught on this course, and at the end of the day, my training allowance is only €20 more per week than a single persons dole... However, I have a reason to get out of bed in the morning, I will have at least some kind of a qualification which I can strive towards attaining (even if the qualification doesnt mean **** in the grand scheme of things) and I'm not sitting at home on my hole applying for jobs I dont want to spend longer than 6 months working at because I'm bored of the dole without qualifications.

I will also begin a month of work experience hopefully in a computer based environment which I can hopefully give my best shot and fingers crossed come January I'll have a job in an industry which I at least have some level of interest in and potential to advance.

Better than playing Fifa all day... :rolleyes:

starbelgrade

rhythm90 wrote: »

Better than playing Fifa all day... :rolleyes:

Nothing is better than playing FIFA all day. Not even sex.

Ectoplasm

starbelgrade wrote: »

Nothing is better than playing FIFA all day. Not even sex.

You're doing it wrong.

gollem_1975

EMF2010 wrote: »

You're doing it wrong.

you've obviously never played FIFA

BluesBerry

FAS is not just about computers, haridressing etc it helps people that have been out of the workplace for a long time and give people back the confidence going back to work

They do CE schemes that can help to secure a job I got employment through one of these you get trained up FAS sent me on a lot of courses during my CE scheme that was related to the job , if I didnt do this CE scheme I would never have been qualified for that job, and I would say there are hundreds like me that have done this

starbelgrade

BluesBerry wrote: »

FAS is not just about computers, haridressing etc it helps people that have been out of the workplace for a long time and give people back the confidence going back to work

It's also about paying out ridiculous amounts of taxpayers money to private firms running other courses, or running community schemes & not keeping track of how or where the money was spent.

I have no doubt that FAS does some good, but in financial terms, it is a black hole with very little accountability for it's spending & virtually no way of seeing how successful or not their training courses & community schemes actually are.

number10a

BluesBerry wrote: »

FAS is not just about computers, haridressing etc it helps people that have been out of the workplace for a long time and give people back the confidence going back to work

They do CE schemes that can help to secure a job I got employment through one of these you get trained up FAS sent me on a lot of courses during my CE scheme that was related to the job , if I didnt do this CE scheme I would never have been qualified for that job, and I would say there are hundreds like me that have done this

What's being suggested though is to scrap FÁS and have the courses offered by established educational institutions, so it's not like people won't have these opportunities to upskill and gain confidence elsewhere.

Most people I know who have done FÁS courses see them as useless, though of course they are beneficial for a small number of people. But courses is not the only thing they are supposed to do. They are the training and employment authority. You go into any FÁS office in the country and there's about twenty staff members milling around doing **** all and if you go up to the counter for anything, they tell you everything is on those job-searching machines and on the notices on the wall. The agency does absolutely fúck all when it comes to helping people to find employment. You are just as well off looking for jobs online because it's all self-service anyway.

Closing the whole thing down right now is the only way to sort it out.

sdanseo

After what Roddy Molloy et al did with FÁS's money a year or two back, I'd say ten months after receiving the request for more money the guys at the EU are still laughing.

FÁS courses are practical - they train you in how to do a job rather than college which teaches you 50% relevant fact and 50% poo. Yet the poo percentage is roughly equivalent to the potential difference in salary if you go high enough up in a job. Hardly seems fair.

gizmo

knipex wrote: »

I know thousands of apprentices over the years that had their training managed by FAS.

Most got an excellent training and many have worked all over the world.

I know at least two senior people in IT that started their careers in IT with a FAS course.

Thousands of skilled workers that trained in FAS (machine operators, welders, fabricators etc.)

I also know many graduates that had their employment opportunities greatly enhanced by completing 6 month FAS courses.

I am not saying that FAS does not have huge problems and that there are not significant issues with management because there are BUT not everything FAS did was worthless. They run a number of useless courses but also a number of very good ones.

GTFO of here with your "logic" and "rational arguments", this is AH...

starlit

You are forgetting that Fás still are partially to blame for running the country dry! The Director of FÁS forked out loads of money on his own expenses and luxuries plus paying people to just do a course with little incentive of finding work. Some people were fortunate to have learnt more from a FÁS course than a college course but some Fás courses are only there to help those who have a poor education who aren't bothered to go to college and get a decent qualification. They can still do far better in apprenticeship courses in PLCs, FETACS and in College courses where the standard of education probably far out weighs those who did a Fás course. Those who did Fás courses are no sooner are they in a job there might not be much work for them and then they have to be unemployed yet again where can they turn to then???

Fás is just there to make money and they haven't done much to help people other than help themsevles who work for Fás. I think a lot of those jobs advertised on Fás are a farce. Never once got an interview for any job I applied for with Fás. The jobs that are on offer with not even a basic wage is down right insincere. Fair enough you might get work experience but is it to benefit the employee, or the empolyer or Fás or the country's economy, Government???You work 40 hours a week for five days a week and expect to get not even a little bit of pay is just cac. You still need to pay bills, keep a house/apartment in order, if you live away from home, or have a family its just far too much to give up your time and not get some kind of basic wage out of those 40 hour a week jobs. Blame Fás at squandering all their money for that hitch!

Fás should close and I think it would do a world of good!

flutered

auctually they are pronounced false courses,
on another false note, the supervisor in my locality has 155 people on his books, he must be on some moxey.

monkeyfudge

starbelgrade wrote: »

I have no doubt that FAS does some good, but in financial terms, it is a black hole with very little accountability for it's spending & virtually no way of seeing how successful or not their training courses & community schemes actually are.

We make heavy use of a FÁS CE scheme in work here. Believe me, while the higher ups seemed to be able to get away with anything, spending is watched very VERY closely almost to the point of impracticality.

Very frustrating to see that f*cker pissing away money so easily when we have fill out dozens of forms just to get some post it notes.

Chorcai

The whole Fas thing should be wound down, the money then should go to the PLC colleges/3rd level.

Liberalbrehon

Created a group calling for the closure of FAS

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000818716116#!/group.php?gid=149502501738043&v=wall&ref=mf

For the 10% of successes it has, 90% is wasted. This can be done better and cheaper through the existing educational facilities in the country which could take ownership of their local FAS training centre.

Adyx

I was in the FAS office today to ask about funding for a course I want to do and was told they had no budget for September, they might in October.

knipex

snuggles285 wrote: »

You are forgetting that Fás still are partially to blame for running the country dry! The Director of FÁS forked out loads of money on his own expenses and luxuries plus paying people to just do a course with little incentive of finding work.

Not forgetting that at all. You will not get any argument from me on that.

snuggles285 wrote: »

Some people were fortunate to have learnt more from a FÁS course than a college course but some Fás courses are only there to help those who have a poor education who aren't bothered to go to college and get a decent qualification.

That is not true, its not even close to true. The type of training available through FAS is completely different from eh type of training available through colleges.

Many of the FAS courses actually resemble what the IT's were originally set up to be, before they got carried away with trying to become universities.

They Are about practical real world training, think of it as a more hands on training approach and this suits very many people who are not suited or do not want to go down the academic route.

There is nothing wrong with this type of training, indeed it is extremely valid and equally as important to Ireland and employers as university training.

I agree there are two many makey upy courses, or courses that no longer have a relevance in today's world but my issue is that these are spoken about as if they are the only courses FAS run. They aren't, and I suspect they aren't even in the majority. The problem is we only hear about the bad and rarely the good. Even when we hear about the good (as is happening in this thread) it gets drowned out and brushed aside.

snuggles285 wrote: »

Many people stay at these types of rolls for their entire working lives, more progress, go to night classes or get promoted up through the ranks.
They can still do far better in apprenticeship courses in PLCs, FETACS and in College courses where the standard of education probably far out weighs those who did a Fás course.

Again this is completely untrue and underlines my point.

Apprenticeship standards are set by an act of the oireachtas. They are the only education standards that have a statutory footing. This also allows for an Irish apprenticeship to be recognised in other jurisdictions.

All Irish apprenticeships are managed by FAS. All of them even ESB apprenticeships.

An apprenticeship is divided into 7 modules broken up into practical and theoretical modules. Each module involves assessment and examinations with the practical modules having on going assessment and the theoretical modules have written exams. (exams are set centrally and externally marked similar to the leaving cert)

FAS manage module 2 directly and as the deeply theoretical modules are outside of the scope of FAS (practical training) these are carried out the the Institutes of Technology.

An apprenticeship is not a "simple" or automatic qualification. It involves significant study.

For example the electrical apprenticeship requires an in-dept knowledge of electrical theory, electronics, electrical physics, electrical engineering and maths.

All apprentices would be expected to analyse sine waves, calculate impedance, inductance and capacitive loads, compensate for these, build logic gates, Program and fault find PLC's etc.

The training may be focused more on the practical aspects of this but that makes it no less relevant, indeed to many employers its even more relevant.

snuggles285 wrote: »

Those who did Fás courses are no sooner are they in a job there might not be much work for them and then they have to be unemployed yet again where can they turn to then???

Again completely untrue, based on hysterical anecdotal evidence.

I don't doubt that some of these graduates do multiple courses but even of these many are progressing further to enhance career prospects. A Tool maker doing a course of CAD or 3D CAD. An electrician doing a course on calibration. Its no different than a graduate doing a masters.

snuggles285 wrote: »

Fás is just there to make money and they haven't done much to help people other than help themsevles who work for Fás.

Again wrong, see above.

snuggles285 wrote: »

I think a lot of those jobs advertised on Fás are a farce. Never once got an interview for any job I applied for with Fás. The jobs that are on offer with not even a basic wage is down right insincere. Fair enough you might get work experience but is it to benefit the employee, or the empolyer or Fás or the country's economy, Government???You work 40 hours a week for five days a week and expect to get not even a little bit of pay is just cac. You still need to pay bills, keep a house/apartment in order, if you live away from home, or have a family its just far too much to give up your time and not get some kind of basic wage out of those 40 hour a week jobs. Blame Fás at squandering all their money for that hitch!

I have never used FAS to find work but I do know that they have helped a number of apprentices who got laid off mid training to find new employers.

snuggles285 wrote: »

Fás should close and I think it would do a world of good!

I would advise you to review your opinion based on facts.

I have no argument that FAS needs to be seriously revamped but don't throw out the baby with the dishwater.

knipex

gizmo wrote: »

GTFO of here with your "logic" and "rational arguments", this is AH...

I really really need to look at the forum title before getting involved in threads.

Nolanger

Jeff_Lebowski wrote: »

I've been working in the industry for the majority of the time between then and now.

Why aren't you on IMDB then?

Miguel_Sanchez

Nolanger wrote: »

Why aren't you on IMDB then?

Cause most Irish television shows don't bother update their IMDB pages?

Am I not on IMDB?

*checks*

Nope. I'm not.

I suppose I should put my own films up on it at some point.

Paparazzo

Nolanger wrote: »

Why aren't you on IMDB then?

What? You didn't look very hard
http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0003518/
He even has a film

A lot of people posting in this thread don't have a clue! Some FAS courses are excellent. I did the Autocad one, learned more in a week than I did in 2 years in college

checkyabadself

A fella once told me that he had to do mandatory FAS training for part of his apprenticeship. He called it the Fall Asleep Scheme.

Gurgle

Paparazzo wrote: »

A lot of people posting in this thread don't have a clue! Some FAS courses are excellent. I did the Autocad one, learned more in a week than I did in 2 years in college

We (or at least I) aren't talking about the value of the course contents. Most of the training is not done by FÀS, they just arrange the course. Many of the instructors are top of their fields, others don't have a clue. Some will give you your certificate just for showing up for most of the lessons.

Take the ECDL for example. It used to be recognized as evidence that you knew your way around a computer and could hit the ground running in an office environment. Now we know that some of the people who did it through FÀS were 'helped' through the exams and got the certs without actually learning anything.

Result: An ECDL certificate is usless on your CV, no matter how much you learned.

conor678

In my opinion I agree with what Ruairi Quinn is saying. I think FAS should redirect some of their staff and abilities to helping graduates get jobs and work experience (I know about the work placement programme 1st hand and it leaves a lot to be desired!). Quinn is right if the government are serious about the smart economy and rejuvenating the economy then FAS should focus on the people who are going to do that, ie. Graduates not people who are doing an applied leaving cert getting €230 a week! Also how relevant is an ECDL these days in a smart economy when any graduate is at a fairly high standard of computer literacy
In reality Fas is over funded and not used to the best of it's abilities.

Sorry also meant to say FAS should get it's act together and allow people who can't complete their apprenticeship due to the recession to complete them

cork2

im 4 years into an apprenticeship that took alot of hard work and im afraid if i dont get qualified by them at this stage ill have to go serial killer on there asses!!

storm2811

I've never done a FàS course before but I know people who have, most have nothing but good to say about it.
I think it can be easily abused though, I know someone who just does course after course instead of going back to work, she even said herself that it "Brings in good money".

EverEvolving

I am currently completing a Fas course that was tendered to a third party company and find it very good. The training is practical and you can see how it will be used in an actual job. Three years in college never touched on the practicalities that this course does.

That said, part of a course a friend done had a CV and interview skills section which included the useful tip of "Good handwriting is essential when compiling a CV"!

I think Ruari’s idea is good as the qualification from an IT/VEC is more widely recognised and valued; however, they don’t really cater for trades so it will need a huge overhaul.

mfceiling

Gurgle wrote: »

This is a rare situation, but Mr Quinn may actually be onto a good idea. FÀS was a complete joke long before we learned that the spent more on Caviar and Stylists than on education, never mind that the 'qualifications' were earned simply by enrolling on the relevant course.

The organization is absolutely corrupt, pointless, ineffective and a complete waste of money. It comes second only to Anglo on the 'Burn it and run' list.

Is this thread about fas or fianna fail

starlit

I've heard that those who did a particular course with Fás, supposedly passed their course but the truth was found out that the supervisors who corrected their papers from exams and assessments just passed them on a whim as many of those had failed their coursework. The supervisor passed them anyway! So in fact they had failed in reality!

dlofnep

Why do people hate FÁS so much? I did a computer networking course there years ago, and I thought it was pretty good. The alternative at the time, was to sit on my hole and do nothing at home - as I had sent in about 15 CV's around town and couldn't get a job.

Sure, some of the courses in Fas are stupid - but some are decent and have great merit.

Johnny Utah

monkeyfudge wrote: »

I learned more in a 6 month FÁS course than I did in 3 years of college education.

Clown college?

starlit

I rest my case!

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fas-internal-probe-reveals-manipulation-of-test-results-2324433.html