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Charge more to ATMs usage to prevent tiger kidnapping????

  • 03-09-2010 6:39am
    #1
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,763 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Ok, so yet another family is the target of a tiger kidnapping, not a nice situation for any family to be in.. being threatened with violence or death unless a member of the family, who is an employee of a bank, uses their access to the bank to get a large sum of cash for the kidnappers, in this case €300k..

    Everyone released unharmed, thank god, and now the investigation begins..

    Meanwhile this ******* (i'll leave at * instead of being banned for calling him what I actually think he deserves to be called) Dermot Ahearn, believes that now we should be charged more for using ATMs as it will mean less cash in the machines.. so less chance of tiger kidnappings?????

    So if more banks are going cashless, where the hell are we supposed to get our money from you idiot??? :mad::rolleyes:

    Or is this another little idea for the banks to cripple us with even more charges and for an ever worsening service?

    What planet is this guy living on???

    Linky Here


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,893 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    Someone kidnapped a tiger? That's very brave if you ask me.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,763 Mod ✭✭✭✭ToxicPaddy


    Its been done before, they keep catching em at the airport, so now they just kidnap them from people who have them here already.. :D

    Real-tiger-cub-found-among-stuffed-toys-in-luggage-at-Bangkok-airport


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    How about dropping the ridiculous taxes levied on debut and credit cards rather than taxing cash transactions.

    Also since the state basically owns the banks they could easily ask them to develop a more sensible and technologically advanced alternative to laser cards.eg visa debit and pay wave contactless cards for small high volume payments.

    This sounds like another crude revenue generating measure.

    They seem to be solving everything with a tax.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭RMD


    Last time I checked, my ATM limit was 700€, not 300k.

    How the **** will increasing fees stop tiger kidnappings when I can only give them 700€ from an atm, 700€ isn't even worth their while.

    One thing I really hate about Irish politicians is how much they attempt to bullshít us, ffs can you not just tell us "Yes we're ****ed and looking at further ways of increasing revenue" rather than trying to bullshít us like ignorant kids.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Solair wrote: »

    They seem to be solving everything with a tax.

    How convenient of them.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,731 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    I had to read the news article twice to be sure that the Minister was proposing what I thought he was proposing.

    There is a certain logic to what he proposes, but why not take it a stage further and just abandon currency?

    NTM


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    I had to read the news article twice to be sure that the Minister was proposing what I thought he was proposing.

    There is a certain logic to what he proposes, but why not take it a stage further and just abandon currency?

    NTM


    well considering the country has no money, that's not a bad idea.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭Jenroche


    Solair wrote: »
    How about dropping the ridiculous taxes levied on debut and credit cards rather than taxing cash transactions.

    Also since the state basically owns the banks they could easily ask them to develop a more sensible and technologically advanced alternative to laser cards.eg visa debit and pay wave contactless cards for small high volume payments.

    This sounds like another crude revenue generating measure.

    They seem to be solving everything with a tax.

    It seems to be all they know how to do. This isn't going to stop a group of thugs holding some bank official's family to ransom. It's just another excuse to bleed us dry. :mad:

    Jen ;->


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,763 Mod ✭✭✭✭ToxicPaddy


    I had to read the news article twice to be sure that the Minister was proposing what I thought he was proposing.

    Me too. I read it a few times to make sure I was reading and understanding it correctly, it was 7am when I started reading it afterall.. :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,921 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    By charging us three separate stamp duties for debit, credit and ATM cards, it is the government who is preventing us from becoming a cash free society. It also prevents competition in the credit card market.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭monkeypants


    ToxicPaddy wrote: »
    Or is this another little idea for the banks to cripple us with even more charges and for an ever worsening service?
    That's exactly what it is. The banks need money and will pretty much do anything to get it.

    To be fair to RTE, Ahern gave this little tidbit yesterday and their analyst (can't remember who it was) fairly demolished it straight away. Said that he couldn't understand how it would help as the majority of cash kept in branches is not for consumers but rather for business use.

    Aside from that, it sounds like a surrender from the Minister for Justice. He should be coming out with a strong line about preventing this type of crime and catching the people to did it. Although it did say that the Gardai weren't informed for 14 hours.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    ToxicPaddy wrote: »
    Meanwhile this ******* (i'll leave at * instead of being banned for calling him what I actually think he deserves to be called) Dermot Ahearn, believes that now we should be charged more for using ATMs as it will mean less cash in the machines.. so less chance of tiger kidnappings?????

    It's enough as is... otherwise then how in the hell am I meant to get my money? Banks are only open Monday - Friday...

    The closest TSB to my job will take longer then my lunch break to get to... withdraw... and then get back to work...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭monkeypants


    Could easily be a charge that could backfire on the banks. Would people keep their money out of banks if there was a charge to access it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,595 ✭✭✭bonerm


    It would be rude to call Dermot Ahern the biggest cúnt in Ireland. So I won't.

    The flow of cash is what stimulates an economy and then we have governments taxing us for the use of said currency. Doesn't make much sense.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,688 ✭✭✭Kasabian


    Another tax. Jesus I can't wait to get out of this country. It seems that everyday I come into work to be told that the hard-earned wage I get will be wittled away a little more by idiots and their sneaky ways of gathering money to fcuk down the black hole that is the banks in this country.

    Happy fcuking Friday.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    Will he also charge extra if you commit acts of blasphemy when you receive your bank statement with these new taxes levied?
    He seems very fond of rolling out unpopular, socially regressive measures.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭monkeypants


    Instead of doing something to stop bank robbers (difficult), he might bring in something to stop regular, law abiding folk withdrawing their money in the normal way (easy).

    You don't have to be a **** to be the Minister for Justice, but it helps.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    And the saddest part is, if they bring it in, we'll take it and not do a thing about it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Sorry, but all I can think of right now is the Mike Tyson subplot in Hangover!

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 419 ✭✭Gary4279


    Someone kidnapped a tiger? That's very brave if you ask me.

    Kidnapping Mike Tyson's Tiger is even braver

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TbnXqhHJkk&feature=related


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭eightyfish


    RMD wrote: »
    How the **** will increasing fees stop tiger kidnappings when I can only give them 700€ from an atm, 700€ isn't even worth their while.

    It's not to protect you with your €700 limit. The idea is to discourage frequent ATM use all round, so the ATMs have to hold less money, so the incentive for kidnapping bank managers to get them to open ATMs is reduced.

    I don't think it's a workable idea, TBH. There has to be a better solution.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭Jenroche


    eightyfish wrote: »
    It's not to protect you with your €700 limit. The idea is to discourage frequent ATM use all round, so the ATMs have to hold less money, so the incentive for kidnapping bank managers to get them to open ATMs is reduced.

    I don't think it's a workable idea, TBH. There has to be a better solution.

    ATM's aside though, wouldn't there still be money in the banks? They'll just go to the safe or wherever that money's kept instead won't they? The whole ATM thing is just a bull**** excuse if you ask me.

    Jen ;->


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,595 ✭✭✭bonerm


    And the saddest part is, if they bring it in, we'll take it and not do a thing about it.

    What can we do? (serious question). And please don't say "take to the street and protest" or "vote them out at the next election" because either clearly don't work.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    eightyfish wrote: »
    It's not to protect you with your €700 limit. The idea is to discourage frequent ATM use all round, so the ATMs have to hold less money, so the incentive for kidnapping bank managers to get them to open ATMs is reduced.

    I don't think it's a workable idea, TBH. There has to be a better solution.

    .... thus encouraging people to have more cash on them when in person, especailly having just left an ATM...?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,788 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    No matter how many times I read this, I can find absolutely no causal link whatsoever between tiger kidnappings and ATM charges. This sounds like something a person with serious mental health issues might say.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭eightyfish


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    .... thus encouraging people to have more cash on them when in person, especailly having just left an ATM...?

    Exactly. So it's an odd idea, to say the least.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    I think Fianna fail has already done enough to reduce the amount of money in circulation.

    I wonder how Bertie is viewing this statement, I understand he is no stranger to the odd suitcase full of cash, in varying currencies.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭eightyfish


    No matter how many times I read this, I can find absolutely no causal link whatsoever between tiger kidnappings and ATM charges.

    But there is a link between tiger kidnappings and the amount of money that is stored in a bank branch - most of which may be in the ATM. So if you reduce the use of ATMs, you reduce the amount of money that has to be held in them. That's the idea, anyway.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 472 ✭✭crapmanjoe


    He has a point though - as a nation we are obsessed with physically holding cash

    Go over to the contintent or oz or america and everybody pays for everything via EFTPOS (laser)

    But bringing this up after a tiger kidnapping just seems stupid, its obviously this has been discussed in detail and Ahern thought it was a good as any time to let it slip and gauge the reaction


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Banned Account


    Ill thought out rubbish - I haven't come across an ATM that holds €300k - what about fining the banks who breach protocol in these instances. Something tells me if the insurance companies failed to stump up the banks wouldn't be long getting their arses in gear.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭monkeypants


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    .... thus encouraging people to have more cash on them when in person, especailly having just left an ATM...?
    Good point. People will take out more each time to cut down on the number of withdrawals. Could muggings go up?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭nice1franko


    It's a great idea IMO.

    Similarly, shops should up their prices so there is less cash in the tills to discourage theft. Also, they should hold little or no stock so there is no stock to steal.

    Dermot is a true visionary and very, very wise man.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭eightyfish


    crapmanjoe wrote: »
    Go over to the contintent or oz or america and everybody pays for everything via EFTPOS (laser)

    Actually THERE'S the solution. This is a much better idea. Ditch the stupid €40 per year tax on debit cards and make all bank cards automatically into debit cards. Make it illegal to have a minimum amount for using the cards and then encourage people to pay for everything using Laser. Much less need for loaded ATMs. Good idea, IMO.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Solair wrote: »
    Also since the state basically owns the banks they could easily ask them to develop a more sensible and technologically advanced alternative to laser cards.eg visa debit and pay wave contactless cards for small high volume payments.
    Or take it a step further and let people pay for things using their phones like they do all over the place in Japan, buses and trains for starters.

    The solution to crime isn't to make life harder for the public but to catch the criminals. Tiger attacks are particularly vicious and personal crimes, threatening a man's wife and kids while he goes and gets the money. There's a limited pool of criminals with the stomach for stuff like that, and the guards usually have met them before.

    What we need is a dedicated squad of guards whose sole job is to keep tabs on these characters and watch for signs of an impending tiger attack.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    eightyfish wrote: »
    But there is a link between tiger kidnappings and the amount of money that is stored in a bank branch - most of which may be in the ATM. So if you reduce the use of ATMs, you reduce the amount of money that has to be held in them. That's the idea, anyway.

    So where would all the money that our few remaining businesses lodge go to ?

    At this stage, there can only be one of 3 explanations:

    1) Ahern is losing it
    2) Ahern is playing politics in advance of the budget so that everyone says on the day "Ah, at least they didn't introduce that ridiculous tax"
    3) FF don't want to deal with what's on the way, so are trying to piss us off enough to demand them out

    I reckon it's a combination of all three.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭Sticky_Fingers


    Why do bank personnel have access to the ATM's in the first place? Won't it make more sense to have a third party security company deal with the stocking of ATM's to provide a buffer so that if some scumbag kidnaps a bank employee they have no way of getting at the cash. Ahern can fook right off, I'd rather withdraw all my saving and close my account than pay anymore bank charges. The way the country and banks are going it would be probably safer anyway not to have your money with them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭cc87


    Its all just government BS to try to distract the public from the fact that they have pretty much crippled the country for years to come by throwing 25 billion euro at the banks.

    Ahern hasnt the slightest intention of that tax, but its a way of moving peoples focus away from the real issue.

    We, as a country, are f**ked.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭monkeypants


    Won't it make more sense to have a third party security company deal with the stocking of ATM's
    That would stop the kidnapping of bank staff all right as they'll just kidnap the security company staff instead. Unless the cash is still kept by the bank, in which case we're back to kidnapping bank staff again.
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    2) Ahern is playing politics in advance of the budget so that everyone says on the day "Ah, at least they didn't introduce that ridiculous tax"
    There's definitely some of that going on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭Abelloid


    No matter how many times I read this, I can find absolutely no causal link whatsoever between tiger kidnappings and ATM charges. This sounds like something a person with serious mental health issues might say.

    It's laughable, why doesn't he put a tax on kidnap victims so they stop getting kidnapped? That sounds fair to me.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,389 ✭✭✭✭Saruman


    I seem to have a non cash mentality and often don't have any. I have had to remind myself to make sure I have €20 handy for when I come across somewhere that is cash only or has a minimum spend of €10 to pay by card.

    Stupid idea... It will not stop these kidnappings as bank managers/workers will always be a target as long as banks hold cash.

    If it is just robberies from ATMs that is worrying him then the solution is to take the ability to access an ATM away from the bank. Perhaps a government security agency with armed personel to handle ATMs.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Saruman wrote: »
    Perhaps a government security agency with armed personel to handle ATMs.
    Why do bank personnel have access to the ATM's in the first place?

    Working in an IT Solutions company, providing for a bank, I can advise there are mantenance issues that may require someone to actually get into the ATM and clean it up. They can't wait a day for someone to come in from a facilities / security company to do it.

    It would also be very costly to bring something in like this. Doesn't seem very practical at all.

    My issue is why does it only take 1 person to open it up and gain access?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭Abelloid


    Working in an IT Solutions company, providing for a bank, I can advise there are mantenance issues that may require someone to actually get into the ATM and clean it up. They can't wait a day for someone to come in from a facilities / security company to do it.

    It would also be very costly to bring something in like this. Doesn't seem very practical at all.

    My issue is why does it only take 1 person to open it up and gain access?


    What about the little fella that works inside the machine? Can't he look after the maintenance too? Throw him a few quid extra or something...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,032 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Ahern wants a cashless society because the black market is booming,nothing to do with "tiger kidnappings"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,826 ✭✭✭phill106


    Just thought of a way to stop tiget kidnappings. Hell, it will stop bank robberies. Make money bigger and heavier.
    Coinage stays the same. 10 euro weighs 10 lbs. 20 euro weighs 20lbs.
    Lets see someone try and steal 300000 then.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Ahern wants a cashless society because the black market is booming,nothing to do with "tiger kidnappings"

    Seems we drink from the same cup SEPT 23 1989.

    mikom wrote: »
    The government just hates the idea of cash transactions as the black economy is out of the tax net.

    So a tax on ATMs is just one more turn of the screw towards a cashless society.

    Their solution to everything seems to be to tax it.
    I look forward to the cancer tax, the AIDS tax, and the left handed tax.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,389 ✭✭✭✭Saruman


    Ok then another simple solution (to me anyway), and I am sure it would be costly at first would be that the locks for an ATM have to be remotely activated. Still needs someone to physically open it but before the lock works it needs to be electronically activated by a 24 hour security company. If they get the request outside of banking hours then there is obviously something very wrong.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,788 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    What's the point of minimum amounts for card purchases in some shops? I've only seen it in one place (LIDL) but they make out like it's technically impossible to pay with a card for under 10 euros of groceries.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭eightyfish


    What's the point of minimum amounts for card purchases in some shops? I've only seen it in one place (LIDL) but they make out like it's technically impossible to pay with a card for under 10 euros of groceries.

    They get charged a set fee by the bank per transaction AFAIK. And if you use a credit card the shop gets charged a percentage of the total.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭stephendevlin


    And the saddest part is, if they bring it in, we'll take it and not do a thing about it.


    Start going into the bank (causing ques) and withdraw your money from there or just go in and take out large amounts from the ATM at any one time.

    Buy a very nice thin matress:D


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