smolov questions

ray jay

There has been a lot of talk about smolov in people's logs recently. I've been thinking about giving the base squat cycle a shot but there are a few things I'd like to know about it first.

This is the most comprehensive article I've found on smolov's squat routine. The problem I have is the base cycle includes what seems like fairly arbitrary +10kg and +15kg additions in weeks two and three. How have people who've done this program scaled that to suit them? Currently I'm adding 5kg to my squat every 4 weeks, but with way less volume than smolov prescribes. Would it be unreasonable to expect a 10kg gain over the month? Or even the listed 15kgs?

I saw another version of the base cycle in this spreadsheet. The program looks like this:

Monday  Wednesday  Friday    Saturday
week 1: 70%x9x4   75%x7x5   80%x5x7   85%x3x10
week 2: 80%x9x4   84%x7x5   88%x5x7   93%x3x10
week 3: 83%x9x4   87%x7x5   93%x5x7   98%x3x10

These percentages look extremely aggressive to me, but the most volume I ever did for squats was 3x5 three days/week so I'm not sure what to expect. In other people's experience, what would reasonable percentages be?


My other question relates to how people fit in their other lifts around all that squatting. I currently train 6 days/week for roughly an hour, 3 of which are with weights. I don't want to neglect my other lifts so currently I was thinking of adding one extra compound exercise after each smolov session (e.g. deadlift monday, bench wednesday, rows/chins friday and overhead press on saturday). I'd assume I won't be so wrecked after the squats that I could fit in at least that much work, but if I could manage more it would be great. What kind of training have those of you who've done smolov tried for your other lifts and how was did your progress go?


I would also be interested in hearing what people have to say about smolov variations (e.g. smolov jr., applying it to other lifts, etc). Consider this a general smolov discussion thread!

Hanley

Just look at peoples logs to see how they fit their other lifting around Smolov?

Don't plan on deadlifting, keep it light and low reps if you do.

Don't plan on much shoulder work, they'll already be wrecked from squatting.

I usually go +5-6% in week 2 of smolov and +2.5-4% again on top of that in week 3.

It's meant to be aggressive. That's why it works so well.

It should be based off a training max, a weight you could take any day of the week and still hit. I use 92% to establish this number for my squats. 95-100% for upper body lifts.

d'Oracle

Its all about the Smolov now.
Tis like its the new 5/3/1.

itsallaboutheL

d'Oracle wrote: »

Its all about the Smolov now.
Tis like its the new 5/3/1.

we've all done some variationof it for some lift over the past few years.

It's your fault for asking in your log!

podge57

I've ran the base mesocycle twice, andd I took 7.5kg off my actual max on both occasions, and although its tough, I was able to get through it.

I think you should increase the weight as prescribed, if you feel its too much, lower your starting max. Don't bother using that spreadsheet, its wrong

As for other lifts, I was always wrecked after the squatting, and the only other work I did was benching and upper back 1-2x per week. But I know other people have managed to fit in plenty of other upper body stuff during smolov

d'Oracle

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

we've all done some variationof it for some lift over the past few years.

It's your fault for asking in your log!

Don't be silly, no-one actually reads my log....

Hanley

d'Oracle wrote: »

Its all about the Smolov now.
Tis like its the new 5/3/1.

I'm just waiting for people to bastardize it, do something loosely inspired by it, but half the volume, reduce the intensity, do it for f*cking pushdowns and then declare "Smolov did nothing for me".

EDIT: and as Podge said, ignore that spreadsheet.

itsallaboutheL

i drank lots of crap, then did whatever upper body stuff i HAD to do.

Then the caffeine kicked in and i squatted.

But i'm not very well at the best of times :pac:

ray jay

Hanley wrote: »

Just look at peoples logs to see how they fit their other lifting around Smolov?

The problem with that is that smolov is mentioned in just about every log whether the person is doing it or not! I'm looking for the condensed wisdom people have gleaned from personal experience, much like the tips you posted.

Hanley

ray jay wrote: »

The problem with that is that smolov is mentioned in just about every log whether the person is doing it or not! I'm looking for the condensed wisdom people have gleaned from personal experience, much like the tips you posted.

Starts from post 2,058 - http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055097149&page=103

You may not want to follow that tho... I REALLY like my volume.

Pavel66

Just read that article you linked to on Dragondoor website

I just have a question about which parts of this people do or did anyone do them all?

1. Layoff or maintenance training
2. Introductory microcycle -2 weeks
3. Base mesocycle -4 weeks
4. Switching -2 weeks
5. Intense mesocycle -4 weeks
6. Taper -1 week
7. Competition

Is it mostly no.3 that people are referring to when they say they are doing Smolov?

Are the percentages in the dragondoor article correct?

brianthebard

What is your max op?

d'Oracle

Pavel66 wrote: »

Is it mostly no.3 that people are referring to when they say they are doing Smolov?

Seems like it to me.
I think Smolov Jr. is a watered down version of it too.

Its almost like nobody cares about the intense cycle.

itsallaboutheL

d'Oracle wrote: »

Its almost like nobody cares about the intense cycle.

no, it's more that people don't want to commit to it.

If you havn't found your balls after the base you're unlikely to feel to enamoured by the intense phase.

d'Oracle

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

no, it's more that people don't want to commit to it.

If you havn't found your balls after the base you're unlikely to feel to enamoured by the intense phase.

I figured.
My reason had more dramatic impact though.

Parsley

Pavel66 wrote: »

Just read that article you linked to on Dragondoor website

I just have a question about which parts of this people do or did anyone do them all?

1. Layoff or maintenance training
2. Introductory microcycle -2 weeks
3. Base mesocycle -4 weeks
4. Switching -2 weeks
5. Intense mesocycle -4 weeks
6. Taper -1 week
7. Competition

Is it mostly no.3 that people are referring to when they say they are doing Smolov?

Are the percentages in the dragondoor article correct?

yeah generally number 3. i generally kind of do the introductory microcycle... just a few days before i start i'll do a heavy single each day working up to the max i plan on using for the cycle... seems to work grand as prep, i'm running it for the 2nd time now and am planning on doing the intense phase too. meant to do it last time but my knees were in **** due to not having a foam roller.

ray jay

brianthebard wrote: »

What is your max op?

I don't know, I've never max tested my squat because I work out at home and don't really want to have to dump the bar if I can't complete the rep. Obviously I'll have to test it before starting smolov, but I have targets to hit in other lifts that I want to get before concentrating on squatting.

d'Oracle wrote: »

Seems like it to me.
I think Smolov Jr. is a watered down version of it too.

Its almost like nobody cares about the intense cycle.

I got the impression - however unfounded - that the intense cycle was more about preparing for competition while the base cycle was good for general strength gain when no peaking is required.

d'Oracle

ray jay wrote: »

I got the impression - however unfounded - that the intense cycle was more about preparing for competition while the base cycle was good for general strength gain when no peaking is required.

I kind of saw that in it too.
But also, if you don't have a comp to train for, you could just retest your max.
Or just be happy in being Bearsh1t Strong.

Hanley

Pavel66 wrote: »

Just read that article you linked to on Dragondoor website

I just have a question about which parts of this people do or did anyone do them all?

1. Layoff or maintenance training
2. Introductory microcycle -2 weeks
3. Base mesocycle -4 weeks
4. Switching -2 weeks
5. Intense mesocycle -4 weeks
6. Taper -1 week
7. Competition

Is it mostly no.3 that people are referring to when they say they are doing Smolov?

Are the percentages in the dragondoor article correct?

Base cycle's only 3 weeks long, the 4th week's a test week.

For most people the biggest gains will come outta the base cycle. It hurts A LOT more. If you get thru it, the intense should be fine.

ray jay

What about running the base cycle, giving yourself a break for a bit (say the switching phase), then running it again? Is there a good reason to do the intense cycle over a second base cycle?

itsallaboutheL

ray jay wrote: »

What about running the base cycle, giving yourself a break for a bit (say the switching phase), then running it again? Is there a good reason to do the intense cycle over a second base cycle?

You'll **** yourself up.

Hanley

ray jay wrote: »

What about running the base cycle, giving yourself a break for a bit (say the switching phase), then running it again? Is there a good reason to do the intense cycle over a second base cycle?

The base cycle works because it's such a shock to the system. Running it back to back won't really force your body to adapt that much more.

And because you'll **** yourself up.

kevpants

ray jay wrote: »

I got the impression - however unfounded - that the intense cycle was more about preparing for competition while the base cycle was good for general strength gain when no peaking is required.

Smolov's a peaking program. Don't forget that. There may be some drop off in strength after it.

Obviously to a level above where you started so progress will have been made but you can't rely on maintaining that level of strength immediately afterwards.

Molly

Random bump; considering running this after a comp in a few weeks. Best squat is 132.5 at 70Kg bodyweight. Worth doing or am I too weak and wasting my time by doing this. What kind of gains (percentage & kgs) have you guys got out of it

d'Oracle

Molly wrote: »

Best squat is 132.5 at 70Kg bodyweight. Worth doing or am I too weak and wasting my time by doing this. What kind of gains (percentage & kgs) have you guys got out of it

Is that 132 a proper olympic communist squat or a Rippetoe Crossfit quasi-powerlifting squat?

You probably aren't too weak for you squat to benefit from doing a great deal of squatting.
The only way to know how it will do for you is to run it, I reckon.
Its been done a few times in the logs with different results for different folks.

Molly

Highbar, and it's not one of the hybrid highbar/lowbar squats you see over on the crossfit boards if that's what you mean. Had a read over hanley's part of it, certainly doesn't sound fun!

Hanley

Molly wrote: »

Random bump; considering running this after a comp in a few weeks. Best squat is 132.5 at 70Kg bodyweight. Worth doing or am I too weak and wasting my time by doing this. What kind of gains (percentage & kgs) have you guys got out of it

Smolov doesn't discriminate against strength levels. It gets everyone strong.

If you want my advice - use 92% of your current best squat as the number you base the 70,75,80 and 85% days off. Add 10kg in week 2. Add an additional 5kg in week 3. Whatever the last 10x3 day weight is should be around 82% of your eventual max after the 4/5 day rest period.

d'Oracle

Molly wrote: »

Highbar, and it's not one of the hybrid highbar/lowbar squats you see over on the crossfit boards if that's what you mean. Had a read over hanley's part of it, certainly doesn't sound fun!

Good.
I have only done the base mesocycle. And I was doing it on an 8 day week.
Its tough. But after it you can chat with bros about how tough it is.
And your squat should be better.

BossArky

I've condensed the info in this thread into the attached Smolov Squat & Bench base mesocycle template. Edit the orange cells and it will auto populate your base mesocycle.

Question for competitve powerlifters: How far out from a competition did you stop the base mesocycle? One week off between the last heavy 10x3 day and competition day sounds like not enough time to recover. Maybe two to three weeks out? You'd probably want to get a few heavier singles or doubles on the other lifts in prior to competition and after the base mesocycle.

Two questions for Hanley:
1) Re your estimation that the last 10x3 day = approx 82% of new 1RM. Is that just for squat or also bench? If I use 100% of my paused 100kg bench 1RM it'll give me a projected new 1RM of 112.5kg! That alone is worth taking 3 weeks vacation to work on.... which leads to the next question.

2) If using paused 1RM but doing cycle touch & go what would you recommend the % to be? 100%? 97% gives a projected 5kg gain on a 100kg starting 1RM.

Hanley

Question for competitve powerlifters: How far out from a competition did you stop the base mesocycle? One week off between the last heavy 10x3 day and competition day sounds like not enough time to recover. Maybe two to three weeks out? You'd probably want to get a few heavier singles or doubles on the other lifts in prior to competition and after the base mesocycle.

Do it as written - the cycle’s supposed to end around 4-6 days before your max test. That is - if you’re competing on Sunday, last 10x3 on Monday/Tuesday. The whole point of Smolov is that it runs you into the ground with high volume and intensity squatting quite frequently. Those 5/6 days off suddenly feels like a MASSIVE vacation as super compensation occurs. Have a look at what happened in my log around December last year coming up to the second Crossfit Ireland Total Comp.

Two questions for Hanley:
1) Re your estimation that the last 10x3 day = approx 82% of new 1RM. Is that just for squat or also bench? If I use 100% of my paused 100kg bench 1RM it'll give me a projected new 1RM of 112.5kg! That alone is worth taking 3 weeks vacation to work on.... which leads to the next question.

2) If using paused 1RM but doing cycle touch & go what would you recommend the % to be? 100%? 97% gives a projected 5kg gain on a 100kg starting 1RM

I don’t know… Your legs have a unique capacity to tolerate massive workload and massive weight - it’s not something your upper body has to the same extent, so don’t be surprised if the gains aren’t as awesome. Plus if you try to run it alongside smolov squat, your shoulders are probs going to get cranky with ya.

I know I owe ya PM reply, but I’m bloody rammers at the moment so bear with me - Starting to coach CFI’s first strength program tonight too so that’s taking away more of my free time!

itsallaboutheL

Hanley wrote: »

Starting to coach CFI’s first strength program tonight too

Most gratuitous look at me post ever.


*tips hat*

Hanley

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Most gratuitous look at me post ever.


*tips hat*

Neatly hidden tho, no?

COH

Hanley wrote: »

Neatly hidden tho, no?

Hidden? It was as subtle as a giant neon sign floating over your head