Overtaking USMV's on a continuous white?

cormie

Just wondering what the consensus is here on overtaking ultra slow moving vehicles on a continuous white when it's perfectly safe to do so? I'm talking a very slow tractor, a car crawling along where you can see the driver and passenger having a grand oul chat etc.

So it's against the ROTR, but safe to do. I'm not sure of the legal statute book regulations for it, but do you do it? Also, I wonder how AGS would view it if they were behind you?

Matt Simis

Absolutely and all the time. I presume the AGS would be one of the first to do it too. I encounter Tractors a lot here, its part of the course they are overtaking ASAP, by me and everyone. Even the slowest driver does it, you would have to to make any progress.

Also the white lines seem be in reverse where i am, lines on straights and dotted on bends. :pac:

**Timbuk2**

In this circumstance, what you do is imagine the continuous white line isn't there and overtake, if it is safe to do (not approaching any bends, hills, dead ground or junctions). This applies for overtaking cyclists as well.

Esel

USMVs? Wtf? For a minute there, I thought we had been invaded....

Opinicus

Matt Simis wrote: »

Also the white lines seem be in reverse where i am, lines on straights and dotted on bends. :pac:

I notice that a lot too. The Kerry - Limerick road is a nightmare. Every straight stretch of road has a solid line cos there's a junction coming up and the only places there is a broken line is on a bend or the brow of a hill.

Madness.

keithclancy

IMO its fine as long as you don't cross the white line.

Esel

keithclancy wrote: »

IMO its fine as long as you don't cross the white line.

But the thing here is that you can't pass unless you cross the line...

djimi

on a continuous white when it's perfectly safe to do so

If its a continuous white line then chances are its not perfectly safe to cross it; if it was perfectly safe then it would be a broken white line.

Im not 100% sure about this but I think there is something in the ROTR that says it is okay to overtake on a white line when safe to do so in order to proceed past an obstruction, and as far as I know a very slow moving tractor (ie one going in the region of 10mph) is considered to be an obstruction. I think I remember reading on here that there was a precedence set in a court case that says as much. I would not take that as gospel tho unless someone else chimes in to back it up.

Matt Simis

djimi wrote: »

If its a continuous white line then chances are its not perfectly safe to cross it; if it was perfectly safe then it would be a broken white line.

I like your faith in the system. Ive learned later that the dotted white lines are when the paint roller is low on white.

ROADRAGE2008

This might help a bit

It’s an extract taken from the.... DRIVING FAULT MARKING GUIDELINES FOR DRIVING TESTS...

Issued by the Road Safety Authority

Examples of ‘Road Marking’ faults include:

(a) Disregard for a Box Junction: Disregard for a continuous white line, but where an applicant isfollowing behind a slow-moving vehicle e.g. a tractor, a cyclist, or a refuse collection truck, and overtakes on a continuous white line a fault should not be recorded for ‘Traffic Control’. Where the applicant does stay behind the slow vehicle because of the continuous white line, a fault should not be recorded for ‘Progress’. Where traffic lanes are marked and an applicant straddles the lanes, a fault should not be recorded for ‘Road Markings’ (see position in traffic lanes p.5). However where a continuous white line is marked on a bend and an applicant drives in an incorrect position, and also breaches the line unnecessarily, a fault may be recorded for ‘Road Markings’ only in this case. Where an applicant drives for a distance on, or straddles a hard shoulder in order to allow faster traffic to overtake a fault should not be recorded for ‘Road Markings’. (See ‘Position on the Straight’. p.5.)

Cuddlesworth

djimi wrote: »

If its a continuous white line then chances are its not perfectly safe to cross it; if it was perfectly safe then it would be a broken white line.

Do you ever drive outside of the city?

dr.fuzzenstein

Well, in Germany there is a very handy sign:



Meaning that slow moving vehicles may be overtaken in zones that do not allow overtaking.
Meanwhile in Ireland:
A friend of mine got done for overtaking a slow vehicle over a white line.
AFAIK if the slow moving vehicle stops and you cannot get past him without crossing the line, you is stuck there for all eternity if that's what it takes.
So because of the usual carelss oversights when writing Irish law (usually copied and pasted from the UK) this rule was not included condeming you to have to stay behind that tractor and there is no exception.
Having said that I'll still overtake because it would just be thick sitting there like a moron, but it's taking a chance and if you're caught and the Gard feels like doing you, you're screwed.
Fine and points.

BrianD3

The UK Highway Code is much clearer on this, it states that it is ok to overtake slow moving vehicles (IIRC 10 mph) horses, pedal cycles etc. across a continuous white line if safe to do so. I can find no such exemption in Irish legislation, in that case it seems as though it is illegal to overtake a bicycle or pedestrian across a continuous white line.

Also, there is much more sparing use of continuous white lines in the UK. This is very obvious when crossing the border into NI. When you see a continuous white line on an NI road you know it's probably justified.

Oh and many Irish "continuous" white lines have small unpainted gaps in them of around 6 inches for catseyes. I'm pretty sure they are intended to be continuous however.

Del2005

BrianD3 wrote: »

Oh and many Irish "continuous" white lines have small unpainted gaps in them of around 6 inches for catseyes. I'm pretty sure they are intended to be continuous however.

I was driving in NI and their continuous white lines have gaps for cateyes. I only copped this when further down the road the broken white lines where shorter then the continuous white line.

djimi

Matt Simis wrote: »

I like your faith in the system. Ive learned later that the dotted white lines are when the paint roller is low on white.

Whats that got to do with the fact that a continuous white line means its probably not safe to pass on?

**Timbuk2**

People who rely on road markings to tell them whether it is safe to overtake or not are mad. Use your eyes, scan ahead. Are there any junctions, hills, bends, dead ground, concealed entrances ahead? Don't overtake at junctions (even though there are sometimes dotted white lines beside junctions) because cars turning left may only look right, and other such hazards.

And no, you don't have to stay inside the white line. It is more dangerous if you do. I saw a learner driver squeezing by a cyclist before. She could have crossed the line very safely and given the bike a large clearance. No doubt she was told never to cross a continuous white line except for emergencies and access.

djimi

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Do you ever drive outside of the city?

Every day

djimi

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

People who rely on road markings to tell them whether it is safe to overtake or not are mad. Use your eyes, scan ahead. Are there any junctions, hills, bends, dead ground, concealed entrances ahead? Don't overtake at junctions (even though there are sometimes dotted white lines beside junctions) because cars turning left may only look right, and other such hazards.

And no, you don't have to stay inside the white line. It is more dangerous if you do. I saw a learner driver squeezing by a cyclist before. She could have crossed the line very safely and given the bike a large clearance. No doubt she was told never to cross a continuous white line except for emergencies and access.

You do know what a continuous white line means, right? You also know that you can be done for crossing a continuous white line unless you are overtaking an obstruction, yeah?

Edit: sorry, that came across as being smarter than I meant it to upon rereading your post. Yes, you can cross a white line to overtake an obstruction, ie, a cyclist, slow moving tractor etc.

Bazzo

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

People who rely on road markings to tell them whether it is safe to overtake or not are mad. Use your eyes, scan ahead. Are there any junctions, hills, bends, dead ground, concealed entrances ahead? Don't overtake at junctions (even though there are sometimes dotted white lines beside junctions) because cars turning left may only look right, and other such hazards.

And no, you don't have to stay inside the white line. It is more dangerous if you do. I saw a learner driver squeezing by a cyclist before. She could have crossed the line very safely and given the bike a large clearance. No doubt she was told never to cross a continuous white line except for emergencies and access.

Don't mean to be smart but wouldn't it be a bit difficult to spot a concealed entrance?

Anyways around where I live it's more or less a fact of life that you'll have to do this a bit, there are tractors moving extremely slowly everywhere, and I've never heard of anybody getting done for it. Obviously common sense should be applied, edge out and check the road ahead first.

Mc Love

Opinicus wrote: »

I notice that a lot too. The Kerry - Limerick road is a nightmare. Every straight stretch of road has a solid line cos there's a junction coming up and the only places there is a broken line is on a bend or the brow of a hill.

Madness.

Its just as bad on the n7 between the end of nenagh bypass and borris in ossory

macplaxton

BrianD3 wrote: »

The UK Highway Code is much clearer on this, it states that it is ok to overtake slow moving vehicles (IIRC 10 mph) horses, pedal cycles etc. across a continuous white line if safe to do so.

Indeed it does, but it never used to. Certainly when I passed my UK car test 1991, the object had to be stationary. I think it was changed in either a late 90s or early 00s revision. It's a pity more driver's don't pick up a new edition when it comes out as things do change.

**Timbuk2**

Bazzo wrote: »

Don't mean to be smart but wouldn't it be a bit difficult to spot a concealed entrance?

Of course it is difficult, that's the point of scanning the road very carefully. Driving safely involves looking for clues of potential hazards.

Obviously a concealed enterance won't be obvious. Look for clues, like the footpath dipping down to allow cars to come out, or a grass verge having a gap in it, tire tracks leading out from the edge of the road, etc.

Opinicus

Mc Love wrote: »

Its just as bad on the n7 between the end of nenagh bypass and borris in ossory

And there's so many bends everywhere!

left bend, right bend,
left bend, right bend,
left bend, right bend,
left bend, right bend...
Instead of cutting a straight line through all the bends.

_Kaiser_

Opinicus wrote: »

And there's so many bends everywhere!

left bend, right bend,
left bend, right bend,
left bend, right bend,
left bend, right bend...
Instead of cutting a straight line through all the bends.

You should take a spin on the M3.. it's the most twisty motorway I've ever seen. Most of it is just one bend to another

pa990

if the tractor is an obstruction, i think its ok to pass it

Absurdum

tis all relative, if yer in a Veyron, a 458 is an obstruction

Opinicus

Absurdum wrote: »

tis all relative, if yer in a Veyron, a 458 is an obstruction

Yeah, because it would be sitting at the side of the road on fire...

Vertakill

If it was completely safe, and knowing the fact I drive a much quicker than average car, yes I would do it.

However, I would base my decision on the fact that I know that I would most likely be at fault if there were an accident as a result of my decision.

I usually try to base my maneuvers on a gain/risk factor beforehand and make my judgment based on that.

galwaytt

here's a titibit on the subject.

Yesterday, myself and 2 friends did the Bikesafe course with the Traffic Corps, in Galway. Brilliant, enjoyable, enlightening.

At the end, there was a 1:1 de-briefing, and without exception, all of us asked about filtering traffic, on the bike, and what to do if we come across a continuous white line.

The answer we all got was the same: not only can you NOT cross the line, but we were told the actual legal 'definition' of a continuous white line: No Overtaking. But what, I asked, if, as quite often happens on the bike, the traffic pulls in towards the hard shoulder, and leaves room between you and the white line, to maneouvre past? Nope, the official stance is: No Overtaking. Your position vis-a-vis the white line isn't the issue.

So, armed with that, looking at the opening photo in this thread, well,.........

slimjimmc

galwaytt wrote: »

here's a titibit on the subject.

Yesterday, myself and 2 friends did the Bikesafe course with the Traffic Corps, in Galway. Brilliant, enjoyable, enlightening.

At the end, there was a 1:1 de-briefing, and without exception, all of us asked about filtering traffic, on the bike, and what to do if we come across a continuous white line.

The answer we all got was the same: not only can you NOT cross the line, but we were told the actual legal 'definition' of a continuous white line: No Overtaking. But what, I asked, if, as quite often happens on the bike, the traffic pulls in towards the hard shoulder, and leaves room between you and the white line, to maneouvre past? Nope, the official stance is: No Overtaking. Your position vis-a-vis the white line isn't the issue.

So, armed with that, looking at the opening photo in this thread, well,.........

Strange that, I was taught (many moons ago) that it's legal to overtake so long as it is safe to do so and you literally don't cross the line.

The Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997 seems to concur
- Section 10 (overtaking) basically just says you must not endanger or inconvenience others or where a "No overtaking" sign is posted. No mention of other road markings.
- Section 25 (centre road markings) just prohibits you from crossing the white line.

Has something changed I wonder or is what I've been taught incorrect?

dr.fuzzenstein

pa990 wrote: »

if the tractor is an obstruction, i think its ok to pass it

Sadly it's not, because the laws here are made via Google and copy and paste without any thought being put into them, the bit that permits you to overtake tractors got left out.
So you gotta do what all of us do and that is to overtake anyway unless you want to sit there at 15 mph for the next 30 minutes and be late everywhere you go, or just go ahead and overtake knowing full well you're breaking the law and hope the filth doesn't spot you and nabs you.

2 stroke

To complicate things further, the answer seems to depend on what you're driving. For car and motorbike test a continous white line means no overtaking, however on hgv test a continous white line simply marks the center of the road.

sean1141

having driven tractors on the roads a good bit there is nothing worse than someone who wont overtake on a white line even do the road might be clear ahead and i would be going slow and have waved them on. they are sitting behind you with there wheel on the white line and everyone behind them are passing out both of us..
im not saying take a risk or do something stupid. i have seen plenty of that aswell but if you can see the road is clear just overtake.
i always thought the road markings were done with the speed limit in mind. so say your on a road that has 100kph limit the lines coming to a corner or watever were kept back enough to allow a car was moving at near the limit and it would be unsafe to pass but a tractor doing 30kph would be easy to pass