Do you support the government or are you waiting to revolt?

After todays news that Anglo Irish Bank needs a further bailout of 9 billion added with the extra cost of Nama and other failed Banks I wonder if people are close to revolution or just dont care?

Clearly Ireland has not turned a corner, and with unemployment expected to increase in tommorow`s figures for July how close are we to total colapse?

Ireland has huge debts that cant be repaid. We are bankrupt as a nation and it wont be long before the IMF step in and ut everything.

But does the normal public see this?

Are you angry?

Do you continue to support the government?

Are you ready for a revolution?

I ask these questions in this forum because I would like to judge normal people`s opinions instead of those who would normally haunt the politics forum.

PeterIanStaker

You're looking for normal people's opinions in AH?

:D:D:D

El Weirdo

Deleted User wrote: »

I ask these questions in this forum because I would like to judge normal people`s opinions instead of those who would normally haunt the politics forum.

Not in AH you won't.

Edit: Beaten to it!

johnmcdnl

If we could I'm sure any normal person would just arrest every banker and lock them all up and get a whole new set of executives in - of course can't do this because all the politicans and judges and bankers etc etc etc are friends so nothing bar a revolution will ever change anything...

unless the average person tries to hijack the next election by running and getting elected and getting the whole lot out somehow like that..

just a ****ing joke bailing out anglo - will someone just tell me why anglo couldn't be let fail? just why not - the average person didn't have anything to do with anglo - why couldn't we just open a government owned bank or something that would actually generate cash for us back - 25 billion out the window just like that - why is this ever gonna help us

why can't someone tell me this straight - i just can't understand why a private bank failing is the governments responsibility..

someone just tell me

johnmcdnl

johnmcdnl wrote: »

If we could I'm sure any normal person would just arrest every banker and lock them all up and get a whole new set of executives in - of course can't do this because all the politicans and judges and bankers etc etc etc are friends so nothing bar a revolution will ever change anything...

unless the average person tries to hijack the next election by running and getting elected and getting the whole lot out somehow like that..

just a ****ing joke bailing out anglo - will someone just tell me why anglo couldn't be let fail? just why not - the average person didn't have anything to do with anglo - why couldn't we just open a government owned bank or something that would actually generate cash for us back - 25 billion out the window just like that - why is this ever gonna help us

why can't someone tell me this straight - i just can't understand why a private bank failing is the governments responsibility..

someone just tell me

Anglo will be allowed to fail once all of FF friends have gotten their money back.

At the moment we have rich friends of FF who have billions invested in Anglo.

FF are bailing out the bank so their friends can take their money out. Thats why regardless of how much cash the bank gets it still continues to loose money because friends of FF are withdrawing it from the other end.

Once they have gotten their cash, FF will let the bank fail and we the taxpayer get to pick up the tab.

overhand_right

I will never trust ff or the greens for the rest of my life the only time john gormley is seen is when he is taxing us harder as for biffo where do we start.

Superbus

Yeah, the country's a complete mess, but really, why complain when you could be doing the Safety Dance?

*spelling with arms* S-A-F-E-T-Y

Lab_Mouse

Just waiting on the explosives and then I'm ready to go

King Felix

Are you revolting, OP?

King Felix

King Felix wrote: »

Are you revolting, OP?

When someone takes the lead I will happily join.

Or do you ask about my looks? Well of course Im stunning not revolting!:D

Einhard

Neither.

Cakes.

I cant wait for a march on the streets...
I like Marches ...
I also believe that everyone currently in Government Should be banned from government and a completely new cabinet shuld run this country

galwayrush

We mortals got pay cuts, some of us 100% cuts with losing our jobs, but the Government's friends in the Zombie bank get a Government approves pay rise..............:pac::pac::pac:
It's so pathetic, it's kinda funny, wonder if the people in Newsweek would put our leader in it's top 10 leaders list if they actually researched the real story.:rolleyes:

galwayrush

galwayrush wrote: »

We mortals got pay cuts, some of us 100% cuts with losing our jobs, but the Government's friends in the Zombie bank get a Government approves pay rise..............:pac::pac::pac:
It's so pathetic, it's kinda funny, wonder if the people in Newsweek would put our leader in it's top 10 leaders list if they actually researched the real story.:rolleyes:

Dont forget that Brian Cowen is still one of the highest paid politicians in the world!

In the top 3 in Europe I believe!

Ulysses Gaze

Deleted User wrote: »

Anglo will be allowed to fail once all of FF friends have gotten their money back.

At the moment we have rich friends of FF who have billions invested in Anglo.

FF are bailing out the bank so their friends can take their money out. Thats why regardless of how much cash the bank gets it still continues to loose money because friends of FF are withdrawing it from the other end.

Once they have gotten their cash, FF will let the bank fail and we the taxpayer get to pick up the tab.

.....and the sad thing is, 30%+ of the gobsh!te voters in Ireland will still vote FF in the next election.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

RMD

I don't support the government, but I also hate the many retards within this country who don't understand how an economy or politics work and think that the entire mess this country is in is the sole result of FF.

I'll probably be voting FG come 2012, not really sure though.

mikemac

Banker is such a ridiculous term

Includes everyone from Sean Fitzpatrick to the middle manager who takes professional banking exams to the lowly cashier who earns 22k per year and takes dogs abuse for what the executives do.

galwayrush

Deleted User wrote: »

Dont forget that Brian Cowen is still one of the highest paid politicians in the world!

In the top 3 in Europe I believe!

I imagine that really impresses our bankrolling Germans friends and the people in the I.M.F....:rolleyes:

Last week, they were boasting about being able to sell some short term bonds to raise a few quid to keep the country above water ( i.e. to pay some intrest off some of our other borrowings) Rumour has it that it was out own banks using tax payers bail out money that bought the bonds, FFS this is gone beyond a joke if that is true.

RMD

RMD wrote: »

I don't support the government, but I also hate the many retards within this country who don't understand how an economy or politics work and think that the entire mess this country is in is the sole result of FF.

I'll probably be voting FG come 2012, not really sure though.

So who would you blame?

Its is FF faults, no one elses.

But dont worry, blowing Billions on a bankrupt bank that dosent even cater for joe public isnt FF fault,

Extending the summer holidays for all TD`s during a economic crisis isnt FF`s fault.


nope poor old FF, nothing to blame, move along we have turned a corner.

Dudess

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKYWOwWAguk

Operative words: "Talkin' 'bout"

The Waltzing Consumer

Deleted User wrote: »

So who would you blame?

Its is FF faults, no one elses.

Jesus, can someone please get this young man or woman some brains?

Ulysses Gaze

RMD wrote: »

I don't support the government, but I also hate the many retards within this country who don't understand how an economy or politics work and think that the entire mess this country is in is the sole result of FF.

I'll probably be voting FG come 2012, not really sure though.

Not solely FF's fault but........

....they should not have promoted the mad property speculation that has destroyed our banks (which granted has not been helped by the global financial meltdown).

FF gave tax breaks for property development (sec 23 etc) which meant Builders built masses of houses (taking out huge loans from the banks) which were then purchased by investors (mortgaging their own homes as collateral in some cases - more debt on the banks books) which then drove up the cost of houses - this meant people needed to be paid more to service jumbo mortagages (or get on the ladder) - this wiped out our competitiveness which had in effect created a very nice little export economy we'd started to build in the late 1990's.

Ahern used tax revenue generated from Housing sales to pay off the Social Partners (i.e. public sector) to win elections in 2002 and 2007

So the country based on FF 'economic' policy was building and investing in building (apart from proper infrastructure) - so much so that building and related trades were 25% of GDP!!! Madness!! For an industry that can't produce exported good? How long were we going to sell houses to each other?

Once the financial market went into meltdown the Irish banks suddenly found themselves unable to pay the billions of euros in loan debts that exist because of their investment in the property industry. Developers have found that land they purchased is now worth half of what they paid for it and have no chance in hell of paying back their loans to the banks who will need to be nationalised.

The problem is that thanks to 10 years of FF mismanagment and promotion of the property bubble we have nada to fall back on.....no export industries of considerable, crap infrastructure, no ubiquitous broadband or WiFi and crippling taxes such as PRSI and VAT that hinder small businesses from starting and running at profits and a complete reliance on FDI (80-90% of our exports are from foreign companies based here) .....not to mention electricty costs which are ridiculous....and because of our high costs the likes of Dell have gone...taking another 5% of GDP with them.

And we now have to find billions of euros to run the country because tax revenues from property (now a dead duck) are gone.

So yeah....I think FF policy is to blame for the state of the economy......

blackiebest

" The revolt will start mid to late Oct, When you see the same, full page, photo on the cover of every daily newspaper then that will be the begining.

It is currently under planning, totally peaceful, totally legal, hilarious and effective. The plan when executed, will warm the heart of every disgruntled person in the country and will embarass the Government no end. This will be the start.

I will need some help closer to the date so pm me if you are responsible, trustworthy, male, over 30. Do not include your name in any PM, only username. The photo on the front page of every paper and indeed international press will not identify anyone unless, like me, you wish to be identified.

I will reply to any PM's deemed eligable during the first week in Oct.

Ladies, I wish men only get in contact only as part of the plan. For stage two I will require females. Stage two will be in December.

Blackie."

Biggins

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Jesus, can someone please get this young man or woman some brains?

Aaa... no - but I will point him in the direction of not one - but two banking reports that lay blame squarely on the shoulders of someone!

Will that do instead?

http://www.irishcentral.com/business/Cowen-blamed-for-Irish-banking-crisis-in-two-devastating-reports-95949824.html

To quote a poster on politics.ie (Tommy O'brien)

TommyO'Brien View Post
The reports are absolutely devastating.

Their key conclusion is a simple one - we are facing a home grown crisis. Yes there is an international dimension, but even without Lehman two Irish banks were entirely screwed. That is a vital fact. It blows out of the water the claim that "if only Lehman's hadn't happened, we would have been OK and have had a soft landing." The reports say absolutely not. Lehman's only brought forward a crisis we were going to face anyway. Anglo was a zombie bank. It was screwed already.

The key point is that all the internal parts to the crisis centre on one thing, the government, and one man, Brian Cowen.

The regulation system failed. It was established by the government, appointed by government, operated on rules set by government, and adopted a light touch regulation promoted by government.

The banks failed. The Government failed to ensure adequate independent analysis was being done, and in effect gave banks cart blanche to do what they wanted, with the government setting the legal structures (the lax legal structures) that banks in the Celtic Tiger were allowed to operate.

The taxation system made a crisis into a catastrophe. Brian Cowen designed the strategy that was followed by the government. He decided on the reliance on income from development. He decided to move large chunks of taxpayers out of the tax net, and bragged about it repeatedly in the Dáil. He left the state's fiscal status entirely reliant on a source of income that was transient and could disappear very quickly if development slowed down. Cowen decided to ramp up spending massively without ensuring there would be a constant income source to pay for it.

galwayrush

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Jesus, can someone please get this young man or woman some brains?

Why, didn't you notice the corruption and incompetence of FF over the last few years, their biggest crime was to ignore the warnings about the economy ovrheating, apparently it was suggested the doomsayers should commit suicide...:rolleyes:

Ulysses Gaze

galwayrush wrote: »

Why, didn't you notice the corruption and incompetence of FF over the last few years, their biggest crime was to ignore the warnings about the economy ovrheating, apparently it was suggested the doomsayers should commit suicide...:rolleyes:

And I remember that clown Ahern calling guys like Morgan Kelly 'Financial Wizards', in the most disparaging tones, when told about their predictions (that proved to be right).

The Waltzing Consumer

galwayrush wrote: »

Why, didn't you notice the corruption and incompetence of FF over the last few years, their biggest crime was to ignore the warnings about the economy ovrheating, apparently it was suggested the doomsayers should commit suicide...:rolleyes:

Yeah Yeah I know! But the guy wrote that only FF and noone else is to blame for the mess of the country. Are you agreeing that no one outside of FF is to blame at all? Weird

Liam Byrne

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Yeah Yeah I know! But the guy wrote that only FF and noone else is to blame for the mess of the country. Are you agreeing that no one outside of FF is to blame at all? Weird

The mess the country is in includes the SIZE of the mess that it's in, and that is 100% FF's fault.

Every country had a recession (some are on the way out of theirs).

FF ensured we were too exposed
FF ensured that we made matters worse by bailing out Anglo
FF ensured that our recession is lasting longer

So yes; FF are responsible for the mess the country is in.

Fighting Irish

Deleted User wrote: »

Dont forget that Brian Cowen is still one of the highest paid politicians in the world!

In the top 3 in Europe I believe!

and the minimum wage in ireland is one of the highest in the world

Fighting Irish

The people who over spent ridiculous amounts of money play a huge factor in this blame game, anyone who disagrees is probably in major negative equity

theg81der

blackiebest wrote: »

" The revolt will start mid to late Oct, When you see the same, full page, photo on the cover of every daily newspaper then that will be the begining.

It is currently under planning, totally peaceful, totally legal, hilarious and effective. The plan when executed, will warm the heart of every disgruntled person in the country and will embarass the Government no end. This will be the start.

I will need some help closer to the date so pm me if you are responsible, trustworthy, male, over 30. Do not include your name in any PM, only username. The photo on the front page of every paper and indeed international press will not identify anyone unless, like me, you wish to be identified.

I will reply to any PM's deemed eligable during the first week in Oct.

Ladies, I wish men only get in contact only as part of the plan. For stage two I will require females. Stage two will be in December.

Blackie."

What?

Liam Byrne

Fighting Irish wrote: »

The people who over spent ridiculous amounts of money play a huge factor in this blame game, anyone who disagrees is probably in major negative equity

I've seen this bull written in other threads and I'll reply here as I've replied elsewhere.

Not in negative equity and I still lay the majority of the blame on FF's mismanagement.

So basically, your statement is wrong.

Ulysses Gaze

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Yeah Yeah I know! But the guy wrote that only FF and noone else is to blame for the mess of the country. Are you agreeing that no one outside of FF is to blame at all? Weird

FF never stopped to consider the need for a Safety Net, i.e. another portion of the economy that could pick the slack should or rather WHEN the bubble burst.

A failure to invest in indigenous industry, a failure to build world class infrastructure in Comms (we are not even mid-table OECD ranked in terms of broadband) - SMART Economy my backside, failure to promote tax-breaks for venture capital.

You have to blame FF for that.

RMD

Deleted User wrote: »

So who would you blame?

Its is FF faults, no one elses.

But dont worry, blowing Billions on a bankrupt bank that dosent even cater for joe public isnt FF fault,

Extending the summer holidays for all TD`s during a economic crisis isnt FF`s fault.


nope poor old FF, nothing to blame, move along we have turned a corner.

If you think this entire mess was caused by pumping billions into banks it shows how ignorant of this economic crisis you are. I never said FF had nothing to be blamed for, I said they aren't the sole cause of this current situation. They've a lot to account for, but many other people ****ed up along the way and FF are the only group being held accountable for it.

Tell me so, if you're so knowledgeable about politics, what other policies by different parties would have lead to a better handing of the economic and banking crisis that we're currently in.

What benefit would not bailing the biggest banks in the country have done us? Suppose no banks is better than bailed out banks eh? No mortgages is better than the possible chance of mortgage ye.

I'm in no way a FF fanboy, nor have I ever voted for them. I just hate people who talk shíte about politics and the economic crisis as if they actually had a clue what was going on and putting the sole blame on FF, no offense intended. I hold idiots like Sean Fitzpatrick and Bertie Ahern accountable mostly for this situation. Although Ahern was FF and the leader of it, he was a poor representative of the the entire party. The only politician in this country right now with a set of balls to his name is Brian Lenihan and sadly, he's FF, but he's also pretty sick.

Atlantic Dawn

RMD wrote: »

What benefit would not bailing the biggest banks in the country have done us? Suppose no banks is better than bailed out banks eh? No mortgages is better than the possible chance of mortgage ye.

AIB and BOI are not the basket cases that Anglo and Irish Nationwide are. If Anglo and Irish Nationwide were left fall it would not impact on many ordinary people at all, Anlgo Irish has just one branch in Dublin, it's not a bank for the ordinary person, it's purely a developers bank.

The country has been put on the table like a game of poker and we are finished, it will be 20 years before there is an ounce of prosperity in this place again. I can't wait for the budget when he again cuts the needy, he won't ofcourse go cutting the old age pension as these people are the only ones left to vote for them.

The Waltzing Consumer

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The country has been put on the table like a game of poker and we are finished, it will be 20 years before there is an ounce of prosperity in this place again. I can't wait for the budget when he again cuts the needy, he won't ofcourse go cutting the old age pension as these people are the only ones left to vote for them.

Bit mellow dramatic no? I am unemployed and have a great quality of living whilst I look for a job. We are the envy of Europe when it comes to benefits and social assistance. I am not sitting here saying "oh boo, I only get around 200 euro a week for doing nothing, its not fair, boo" I can even afford to go on holiday next week.

This "it will be 20 years before there is an ounce of prosperity in this place" is just nonsense and does your arguing no help at all. Where are you living?

Ulysses Gaze

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Bit mellow dramatic no? I am unemployed and have a great quality of living whilst I look for a job. We are the envy of Europe when it comes to benefits and social assistance. I am not sitting here saying "oh boo, I only get around 200 euro a week for doing nothing, its not fair, boo" I can even afford to go on holiday next week.

This "it will be 20 years before there is an ounce of prosperity in this place" is just nonsense and does your arguing no help at all. Where are you living?

Being the 'envy' of Europe in terms of social benefits is not a good thing when your Government is borrowing c.€500 million a week to keep the lights on and over 450,000 are on the dole. It just inflates the National Debt and makes recovery even harder.

As for the '20 years before there is an ounce of prosperity'. I'd say that's too long. 10 years would be more realistic.

holystungun9

Can we hire that german Muller guy who is giving Aer Lingus a right kick up the hole and says that it will be braking even or maybe turn a small profit by the end of the year. And he has cut through so much crap and trade union extremists (the real Alqueda -bad spelling I know) to get things moving. "F off with yer strikes lads or else nobody is going to have a job" Not a direct quote but an indication of the logic required to push things forward

Einhard

FF have to shoulder a major part of the responsibility for the economic mess we're in, but not because of incompotence per se, and definitely not because of corruption, but because of a spinelessness in power, and a determination by Bertie Ahern that the first priority of any administration led by him was not to govern wisely, but to ensure re-election. Therefore, FF's agenda between 2002-07 was not to govern, but to avoid pissing the electorate off, shelve needed reforms, pay off both the private and public sectors with unsustainable wage agreements, and enter the 08 election inas stong a position of possible. For this Bertie Ahern in particular deserves unreserved codemnation. He was a coward, the very antitheis of a leader, a man who put personal and party interests before those of the nation. However, it also means that FF actions were determined in large part, not by those in the Galway tent or any of that other nonsense, but by the demands of the electorate. They gave the people what the people demanded. That's no way to run a country, and FF deserve all the oppropium they get, but it also means that the electorate in general, and not just FF voters, have to accept some responsibilty. If we don't then nothing will change, these crashes will remain cyclical, and in 40 years time we'll be having this exact same debate on boards 2.0.

Fighting Irish

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I've seen this bull written in other threads and I'll reply here as I've replied elsewhere.

Not in negative equity and I still lay the majority of the blame on FF's mismanagement.

So basically, your statement is wrong.

People need to be able to think for themselves, i know FF pushed the housing market but in the end, it was us who made the final decision

Biggins

Bank bailout named 'most expensive'

Finance Minister Brian Lenihan has been accused of presiding over the most expensive bank bailout in the world as nationalised Anglo Irish Bank reported 8.2 billion euro.

The massive black hole for the first half of the year was twice as bad as experts predicted, prompting calls for the Government to pull the plug on the 23 billion euro survival plan.

Mr Lenihan said the final bill for saving Anglo would be known within weeks.

But Michael Noonan, Fine Gael finance spokesman, said six billion euro of taxpayers' money could be saved if an orderly wind-down was started now.

"Minister Lenihan must now give a definitive figure for the cost of saving Anglo Irish. Taxpayers have a right to know," he said.

Mr Lenihan said: "I can understand the anger and frustration which citizens have when they witness the scale of the losses in this institution but it must be understood that management and the board are working very hard as are the Government and EU authorities to bring certainty and finality to this problem."

Joan Burton, Labour Party finance spokeswoman, said: "The taxpayers were reassured at the time that this would be the cheapest bank bailout in the world. Instead it has turned out to be probably the most expensive," she said.

Anglo chairman Alan Dukes said the preferred plan inside the bank was to split it with 80% wound up and a new viable bank created from the remaining good quality loan assets.

The state-run bank, which has been funded by 23 billion euro of taxpayers' money, said it expects further losses as more troubled assets are shifted off the bank's books.

Anglo already holds the unenviable record for posting the largest losses in Irish corporate history last year, one of the biggest losses in world banking and now one of the worst half-year performances of any Irish company.

Press Association: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100831/tuk-bank-bailout-named-most-expensive-e1cd776.html

...And they will probably be needing more!

---

The Times Write-up:

Anglo Irish hits record loss of €8.58bn

Anglo Irish Bank slumped to a record first-half loss of €8.58 billion (£7.06 billion) after soaring bad debt provisions and its exposure to Ireland’s struggling economy.

The bank, which has received €22.88 billion in state aid, said that the losses were fuelled by €4.8 billion in loan impairment charges taken during the six months to the end of June.

The bank also took a hit of €3.5 billion against securities transferred into Ireland’s insurance scheme for toxic assets, known as that National Asset Management Agency (NAMA).

Anglo Irish, which has overhauled its board since the bailout, said that it had transferred €10.1 billion into NAMA in May and June. As at the end of June, it planned to transfer a further €25.9 billion into the scheme with associated impairment provisions of €9.7 billion, it said.

This means that further losses are likely as Anglo Irish battles to repair its balance sheet and return to financial strength.

“The new management of Anglo Irish Bank is working to significantly restructure the bank’s balance sheet, risk profile and culture in order to restore viability,” the bank said.

Anglo Irish thanked Brian Lenihan, the Finance Minister, for agreeing in June to inject €8.58 billion into the bank, which posted annual losses for last year of €12.7 billion, the largest in Irish corporate history.

Mike Aynsley, the chief executive, said that the final bill for bailing out the bank was likely to reach €25 billion. He said that he expected the European Commission, which has been investigating the state aid it has received, to deliver its findings in September.

He said that he wanted Anglo Irish to be split into a good and bad bank, similar to Northern Rock.

In the case of Northern Rock, the bad bank remains in the hands of the state and will be wound down, while the good bank continues to be run for profit and eventually returned in a sale to the private sector.

Anglo Irish said that, before the impairment charges, operating profits for the six months reached €151 million. It said that operating costs had been reduced by 12 per cent to €133 million, with restructuring activities — including the NAMA scheme — costing €14 million.

Anglo Irish was fully nationalised in January 2009 to prevent its collapse. At the time it was the country’s third biggest lender and the state had already agreed to underwrite €100 billion in outstanding loans and deposits.

The intervention came after the resignations of Sean FitzPatrick, the chairman, and David Drumm, chief executive in December 2008.

Anglo Irish discovered that Mr FitzPatrick had concealed €87 million in personal loans from the bank. Mr FitzPatrick, who transferred the loans to another bank before the end of each financial year, did not breach banking or legal regulations.

However, he said at the time of his resignation: “It is clear to me, on reflection, that it was inappropriate and unacceptable from a transparency point of view.”

Times: http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6383/wwwthetimescoukttobusin.jpg


...And who is going to continue to pay for these losses?

YOU!!!

blackiebest

theg81der wrote: »

What?

What part of my post is unclear? The revolt is planned for late Oct, looking for a few good honourable men as outlined

Dravokivich

Fighting Irish wrote: »

and the minimum wage in ireland is one of the highest in the world

Right... you do know how hard it is for 1 working person to support a family on that?

You say highest minimum wage... but not comparing the out goings on bills... rent/mortgage... food... clothes... education (for kids)...

checkyabadself

Ireland is a conservative republican country. I wouldn't bother revolting so that one right wing party will replace another.

From talking to a lot of people, I feel Ireland would benefit from a left/right, democrat republican model of government similar to he US.

Id be centre left and the majority of people I know were confused as to why our government, when faced with massive economic problems, seemed more concerned and passionate about a dog breeding bill and blasphemy laws.
Irelands government is old school and the electorate don't know what the alternative is, as there isn't one.

_Kaiser_

King Felix wrote: »

Are you revolting, OP?

Deleted User wrote: »

When someone takes the lead I will happily join.

Warning.. FAR too serious rant for AH ahead!!


No offense OP, but it's EXACTLY that attitude that has this country in the mess it's in - this "can't someone ELSE do it?" mentality. That's why the government continues to make fools of us, that's why crime and antisocial behaviour is a far bigger problem than it was say 20/30 years ago, that's why people are up to their neck in debt.

Somewhere in the last 15 years we (as a nation) somehow forgot about the concept that you're personally responsible for the decisions you make in life, AND the consequences thereof.

For example, take all these people who are stuck in negative equity in shoebox-sized apartments/houses that were never actually worth (as in value for money) what they paid, and who are now calling for a bailout.
While I have EVERY sympathy for their situation, at the same time no one FORCED them to buy a house, no one FORCED them to take out a ridiculous mortgage that they couldn't afford (and maybe only got by altering the figures a bit), and therefore not ONE of them should be bailed out now - no more than the banks or developers should have (but then we live in a corrupt banana republic of people who are too greedy and selfish and too concerned about "getting one over" on each other to think of the bigger picture!).

Why should the rest of us pay for the CHOICES these people made? Contrary to what people may have believed in the last 10-15 years, we are NOT the "chosen people" and property was NEVER going to continue to rise indefinitely - it was a gamble, and like all gambling you have to take losses now and then.

I personally was made redundant late last year, but I still have to pay my bills and my debts every month. Damn sure it's not easy and I've had to go cap-in-hand to renegotiate the terms on most of them, but that's LIFE as an adult. No one is going to "forgive" my car loan for example and nor should they as it was MY choice.

BUT all that said, these same banks that are now operating with our money should be FORCED to negotiate with people in trouble, and as long as people are making a genuine effort, that should be enough (backed up by whatever legislation needed).

Somewhere along the way we forgot about the concept of personal and civic responsibility - and until we "grow up" as a country, things will NEVER really change for the better.

speedboatchase

Look, all the things that NEED to be done (more public sector cuts, social welfare cuts, reducing minimum wage) are really unpopular but still need to be done - I'd rather the current government got that out of the way before another (inevitably) comes in. If the next government doesn't want to take the above necessary steps - and might'nt as they want votes - we could prolong this quagmire. There's no real way to 'revolt' either because the next government is always going to be a coalition of some sort

speedboatchase

checkyabadself wrote: »

Ireland is a conservative republican country. I wouldn't bother revolting so that one right wing party will replace another.

From talking to a lot of people, I feel Ireland would benefit from a left/right, democrat republican model of government similar to he US.

Id be centre left and the majority of people I know were confused as to why our government, when faced with massive economic problems, seemed more concerned and passionate about a dog breeding bill and blasphemy laws.
Irelands government is old school and the electorate don't know what the alternative is, as there isn't one.

I'd disagree myself - its such a wasteful welfare state, I can't really see it as conservative myself, although I take your point about that ridiculous blasphemy law. There's no alternative imo because of proportional representation - why would a political party want to offer alternatives when they just want to ensure they don't alienate other parties for a possible coalition?

stbrennan

I'll rebel...


I'm just waiting for a disfigured Guy Fawkes to show up and shave my head




GOD! Natalie Portman is hot

theg81der

blackiebest wrote: »

What part of my post is unclear? The revolt is planned for late Oct, looking for a few good honourable men as outlined

What to all off it! Your "planning" a revolt and advertising it like an event or party and your only looking a for "honourable men". Sorry what year is this? I`m confused

blackiebest

theg81der wrote: »

What to all off it! Your "planning" a revolt and advertising it like an event or party and your only looking a for "honourable men". Sorry what year is this? I`m confused

Read it again. There is a revolt comming. If you are over 30 years of old, male and wish to be a part of it then pm me. I will be replying to those that are deemed responsible in early Oct with a little more info. It is not a party but might be considered a small event but with a massive impact. It will be the start of the end for the system we are subjected to.

It is 2010.

I see you are confused:):)

I will not be replying in this thread again, maybe see you in the politics forum.