Electric dog collars

politicsdude

I'm thinking of getting one of those collars you know the ones where you can set out an area kinda like an electric fence to keep the dog from running out on the road but to allow him to have a bit of freedom.
The collars are very expensive though like 150 quid or something are they worth the cost?

00112984

politicsdude wrote: »

The collars are very expensive though like 150 quid or something are they worth the cost?

Yes! My sister's house was in the middle of nowhere until a huge road was built right at the end of her garden. Her lab had never roamed or had traffic issues but suddenly with traffic so close the pooch was inclined to bolt towards the road. They got a radio fence, gave the dog a very large area and it has worked a treat.

They are expensive but very effective. Look for one that comes with boundary marker flags. That way you can teach the dog to stay within the area marked by the flags so they'll very rarely have to get a shock from crossing the line.

Whispered

I would say no, I think you'd be much better off with a reasonably sized run and then sufficient exercise with you around. Could you build a secure run, with a view to building a proper fence in the future around your land?

There are many reasons why shock collars are not a great idea which I'm sure you'll be told in the following posts . But my main problems with them would be, I don't believe in using pain to teach dogs and those fences are not secure.

I also personally know 2 dogs who had burns on their necks from them. So they're not as "harmless" as the advertisments or the advocates would have you believe.

andreac

Absol no way! These contraptions are cruel and unnecessary and are not safe. They are unreliable so i would urge you not to buy one of these.

Build a proper dog run or fence in an area for your dog but do not buy one of these.

Cherry Blossom

I only know of one person who used a radio fence, on a boxer. They had to get rid of it as he kept charging at it and clearing the boundry and getting shocked. Once the dog is on the otherside if he's gone after something he will be very reluctant to cross it again to get back into the area. You aren't very likely to find much support on this forum for any training that involves giving an electic shock to a dog, it is no substitute anyway for proper secure fencing.

koppy

deffo worth it..

have one for 3 years. dog has only got one "hit" from it. even now when turned off he still wont cross where the line is. excellent product.

only flaw i have is when the battery goes in the collar it dosent warn you and after 3 to 4 days with out the warning beeps the dog will realise it is gone.

the poster whose dog charged through it mustnt have had the sensor setting high enough..needs to be a t least 6 may be even 8 for a big dog.

highly recommend it.

andreac

koppy wrote: »

deffo worth it..



the poster whose dog charged through it mustnt have had the sensor setting high enough..needs to be a t least 6 may be even 8 for a big dog.

highly recommend it.

This bit makes me sad, poor dog, must be so painful for him, cant imagine it:(

andreac

Koppy, why are you thanking me?? You were the one saying to have it up high, so cruel

OP, have a read of this thread, all you need to know about Shock Collars:mad:
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055865241

koppy

it dosent get stronger "hit" by upping the level..it warns the dog with beeps further from the actual line.
taught these were cruel till saw them working.

also important to get the right size collar or it would be cruel. big do = big collar etc.

koppy

andreac wrote: »

Koppy, why are you thanking me?? You were the one saying to have it up high, so cruel

OP, have a read of this thread, all you need to know about Shock Collars:mad:
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055865241

what you mean?

Edit

see what you mean..sorry didnt mean to do it.

andreac

You were saing to turn it up higher, i said thats cruel as they get a bigger shock, and then you thanked me.
I wasnt agreeing with you, i was disagreeing saying its cruel.

Saaron

My aunt's neighbour recently got one for her dog. It has no affect at all. The dog still runs out of the garden whenever it's let outside.

You'd be better off investing in good fencing around the area. It's more reliable and safer for the animal. This comes from someone with 8 dogs who all try running after every car that passes by the house :P

We have a large garden, and every inch of it it is fenced off with a sturdy wooden fence. There's also wire mesh attached onto it (and dug into the ground) so that any smaller dogs like Pugs can't escape through it. The garden gate is always closed and locked incase someone opens it and they get out.
Wouldn't want any dogs getting killed on the road :O

politicsdude

yeah my biggest fear is how secure they are ... this guy is pretty mad for the tiny little fella that he is and I could see him running straight through it and off out onto the road, (he has no sense at all when it comes to cars) I don't really like the idea of an enclosure, I'd like for him to have as much space as possible and to be able to play with our other dog (who is grand as far as the road goes and never chases cars or anything)

koppy

only cruel if not used correctly..training is very important. you cant increase the power of the hit only the warning distance. as said the collar size is the most important bit.

Cherry Blossom

koppy wrote: »

the poster whose dog charged through it mustnt have had the sensor setting high enough..needs to be a t least 6 may be even 8 for a big dog.

highly recommend it.

The dog was very much aware that the boundry was there and where it was, that is why he was charging to get across it, he wasn't giving chase or anything he just wanted to cross the boundry, when he wanted back in he'd charge at it again. What I meant by a dog going after something was hypothetial to a degree, if a dog is aware of the boundry and in normal circumstances respects that boundry but wants to give chase to something on the otherside (as in the OP's case) he will be more determined than usual to get across it. If he does so he won't have the same motivation to cross back over it and will be stuck on the wrong side of it.

andreac

koppy wrote: »

only cruel if not used correctly..training is very important. you cant increase the power of the hit only the warning distance. as said the collar size is the most important bit.

Sorry but they are cruel. Anything that shocks a dog is cruel.

They are not 100% safe or reliable, A dog can still get out and other dogs can come in so they arent safe in my opinion.

A dog run or fencing is much more humane, responsible and safe.

koppy

had he the proper size collar for the type of dog..?
was the battery gone in the collar..?

only know two others who have this and both feel the same as me..

my dog got out once and that was because the collar battery was gone.

andreac

koppy wrote: »

had he the proper size collar for the type of dog..?
was the battery gone in the collar..?

only know two others who have this and both feel the same as me..

my dog got out once and that was because the collar battery was gone.

Does this not prove to you how unreliable they are? Your dog could have wandered off, caused an accident or anything. If he was fenced in properly there would be no fear of this kind of thing possibly happening. I would never, ever risk the safety of my dog by using this type of equipment.

politicsdude

koppy wrote: »

deffo worth it..

have one for 3 years. dog has only got one "hit" from it. even now when turned off he still wont cross where the line is. excellent product.

only flaw i have is when the battery goes in the collar it dosent warn you and after 3 to 4 days with out the warning beeps the dog will realise it is gone.

the poster whose dog charged through it mustnt have had the sensor setting high enough..needs to be a t least 6 may be even 8 for a big dog.

highly recommend it.

what make is the one you got? I've seen a couple of different ones

koppy

make of mine is cheetah.

andreac

politicsdude wrote: »

what make is the one you got? I've seen a couple of different ones

Im guessing you didnt read that link i put up and you are still going to get one. Poor dog:(

antomagoo

Lifted from Dog Training Ireland Website

Thinking of buying an Invisible fence or Training Collar for your dog? Think again.

The following organisations condemn the use of these collars and products:

* Dogs Trust
* RSPCA
* Association of Pet Behaviour Councillors
* Association of Pet Dog Trainers
* The Kennel Club UK
* The British Veterinary Association

Establishments that have already banned electric shock collars, include the Association of Chief Police Officers, the armed forces, and the two largest German Shepherd Dog clubs in the UK..

Dog Training Ireland also condemns the use of electric collars and products in any form.

Electric collars and products include the following:

* Shock collars also referred to as training collars, e-collars, bark collars, anti-bark collars, remote electronic collars, pet safety collars, good dog bark collars
* Containment systems also referred to as invisible fences, freedom fences, underground fences, electric fences, training fences, hidden fences
* Electric Shock Mats of which there are two types: one is known as a ‘wireless crate’ and emits electric shocks to the dog when it steps off the mat and the other is called a ‘scat mat’ and emits an electric shock to the dog when it steps on the mat.
* Electric shock leads emit electric shocks to a dog if it exerts more pressure on the lead than is considered ‘normal’ for its size.

Manufacturers market these products as being safe, effective, fast, reliable. The products use an electric shock as a punisher for behaviours such as barking or passing an invisible boundary and the remote control collars can be used to shock the dog for any behaviour. Manufacturers describe the shock as a 'correction', ' mild correction', 'sensation', 'unpleasant feeling', 'static' but they will never say that your dog receives an electric shock. The electric shock is delivered to the dogs neck via prongs that protrude and press on the dogs neck. Some manufacturers advise shaving the hair from the dogs neck and using a conductive gel to get a better 'connection'.

Studies such as the 'Training dogs with help of the shock collar, Department of Clinical Science of Companion Animals, University of Utrecht, Netherlands shows that the behavioural effects of the use of the shock collar resulted in dogs displaying avoidance, high pitched yelps, excessive lip licking, barks and squeals, avoidance, redirected aggression, tongue flicking all of which suggest fear and stress. The conclusions of the study are, that being trained is stressful, that receiving shocks is a painful experience to dogs, and that the dogs evidently have learned that the presence of their owner (or their commands) announces reception of shocks, even outside of the normal training context. This suggests that the welfare of these shocked dogs is at stake, at least in the presence of their owner. (Matthijs B.H. Schilder and Joanne A.M. van der Borg, was published in the Applied Animal Behaviour Science Journal)

The Association of Pet Behaviour Councillors say "A dog experiencing an unpleasant shock to the neck 'out of the blue' will associate the sensation with whatever the dog happens to be focusing on at the time. Used incorrectly, this could be an area, object, another dog, the owner or even a child"

The UK Kennel Club say "Electric shock collars are used on dogs by some people to give an electric shock when the dog is deemed to be behaving incorrectly. This leads to pain and confusion for the dog, affecting it physically and mentally"

In our opinion shock collars fail to address the underlying behavioural problem and are more likely to cause other serious behavioural problems such as aggression, fear, stress, urination without control, lack of ability to cope, depression, anxiety, pain and other physical problems. The use of Shock collars cause confusion to the dog as to where the shock came from and the dog is more likely to associate the shock with the presence of the owner or anything in the dogs immediate vicinity at the time the shock occurs.

koppy

andreac wrote: »

Does this not prove to you how unreliable they are? Your dog could have wandered off, caused an accident or anything. If he was fenced in properly there would be no fear of this kind of thing possibly happening. I would never, ever risk the safety of my dog by using this type of equipment.

thats my only complaint with them is that there is no warning when the battery is going.battery lasted about 10 months when it went and he got out. i change it now every six months.

Cherry Blossom

koppy wrote: »

had he the proper size collar for the type of dog..?
was the battery gone in the collar..?

only know two others who have this and both feel the same as me..

my dog got out once and that was because the collar battery was gone.

Yes the collar was the proper size and no the battery wasn't flat as they didn't use it very long. Obviously it's not my dog or my fence but i know it was working because I was told he always yelped as he crossed it, didn't keep him from doing it again though!:(

<ETA> It was one that vibrated before the dog got close to the fence and he'd come up to the point where it started to vibrate and stand there and growl for a bit before charging at the boundry.

Kevo

I don't think it's cruel tbh. I don't use one as I have no need but my friend did.

The dog learned quickly and AFAIK it was only a minor discomfort for him. Now he has the freedom to roam the garden and he doesn't get shocked anymore at all because he doesn't go near the area.

Also it makes a noise as he is approaching the area so he has a warning and can leave. But then again I wouldn't have done it to my dog unless it would greatly increase his freedom.

koppy

all i can say is it works for mine.

wasnt able to afford fencing so checked theese out. went to see two other poeples working and was impressed. had two choices try it or get rid of dog.
tried it and dont regret it and dont believe its cruel.

prpoer training..proper collar..full freedom of one acre garden...

antomagoo

I honestly believe that people who think shocking a dog is not cruel should try these collars out themselves first, I work in an enviroment with live voltages and any shock no mater how small is damn uncomfortable and not pleasent at all

politicsdude

andreac wrote: »

Im guessing you didnt read that link i put up and you are still going to get one. Poor dog:(

just looked at it there .... don't think I'll be getting one after all

koppy

most of the people who are against these because they are cruel haven't seen them working.
proper setup..proper training..proper collar

Green Hornet

I knew as soon as I saw this thread that the cruelty stories would come out again. :rolleyes:

Some people seem to assume that the dog will be walking up to the electric fence and getting shocked over and over. Must be one thick dog!!! Or a very thick owner who doesn't understand the technique.

Works well for us (1/2 acre) and the boxer. Not pleasant when introducing her to it I'll admit but after the introduction she has free rein all over the 1/2 acre and never even attempts to get out on the road anymore.

Don't get put off by horror stories of shocking dogs 100 times a day. Thats not how it works. It's far better than having a dog chained up!

politicsdude

koppy wrote: »

most of the people who are against these because they are cruel haven't seen them working.
proper setup..proper training..proper collar

yeah well I saw one working before and was very impressed the guy who had it said the dog got one shock off off it and never crossed the flags again. Those pics have kinda put me off now though so am really in two minds ... surely there was a problem with that collar or something?

politicsdude

Green Hornet wrote: »

It's far better than having a dog chained up!

yeah my initial thoughts were that having it tied up or in a small run is much worse than having the fence.

koppy

Green Hornet wrote: »

I knew as soon as I saw this thread that the cruelty stories would come out again. :rolleyes:

Some people seem to assume that the dog will be walking up to the electric fence and getting shocked over and over. Must be one thick dog!!! Or a very thick owner who doesn't understand the technique.

Works well for us (1/2 acre) and the boxer. Not pleasant when introducing her to it I'll admit but after the introduction she has free rein all over the 1/2 acre and never even attempts to get out on the road anymore.

Don't get put off by horror stories of shocking dogs 100 times a day. Thats not how it works. It's far better than having a dog chained up!

exactly..cant recommend it highly enough.

politicsdude

i might see if i can get one on a trial basis or something if it works great, if its hurting him and he's not learning I guess I'll have to get rid of it

Green Hornet

politicsdude wrote: »

yeah my initial thoughts were that having it tied up or in a small run is much worse than having the fence.

That was our problem too. The dog is a boisterous boxer .
Never meant to be chained up or stuck in a small run.

I'm not saying that there are not people out there who use it incorrectly - and thats cruel!! That being said I found it very easy to set up.

koppy

hadnt seen that face book page before..nasty.

my dog has got one "hit" from the collar and i think all dogs will and he was fine immediately afterwards. that was 3 yrs ago. he now walks around the garden along the line of its first warning beep even when switched off. even for food he wont pass the first warning beep. this has greatly improved he freedom and quality of life.

you are given a booklet on how to train the dog. its simple stuff.

again the cruelty crowd prob dont realise that the dog is not shocked every day..or every week/month. once in three years..!

Cherry Blossom

koppy wrote: »

most of the people who are against these because they are cruel haven't seen them working.
proper setup..proper training..proper collar

Your right I've only ever seen one of these and I saw it not working.
Proper setup, proper training, proper collar :rolleyes:. Give any advise you like but stop conteracting my posts making assumptions and telling me I'm wrong. It DOES NOT work for EVERY DOG irrelevant of whether you think it's cruel or not!

Discodog

Years ago I inadvertently got involved in discussion between the RSPCA & the US Company that invented Invisible Fences. The fence company did not the units to be retailed directly to the public. The idea was that a local rep would advice on the best system & layout. They would then install it & train the dog\owner.

I believe that electronic fences & training collars may be justified but only in very special circumstances & by professionals. I know of some dog owners who swear by them but there are also many more who use an electronic fence because they are too lazy to put up a real fence. I also known of a couple of specialist trainers who have successfully used electronic trainers to control & in some cases totally eliminate chase responses with Greyhounds prior to re-homing.

You see far more electronic fences in Ireland than in the UK. They are sold as an easy option especially as the Irish tend not to fence gardens.

koppy

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Your right I've only ever seen one of these and I saw it not working.
Proper setup, proper training, proper collar :rolleyes:. Give any advise you like but stop conteracting my posts making assumptions and telling me I'm wrong. It DOES NOT work for EVERY DOG irrelevant of whether you think it's cruel or not!

wasn't counteracting your post with an assumption.

never said it works for all dogs. know of three people (myself and two others) who use this and all the problems we've had were based on wrong size collar, wrong set up and not training properly. set up correctly they do work. poor set up or poor training ( and retraining every 6/8 weeks)they wont work. thats all im saying.

" most of the people who are against these because they are cruel haven't seen them working.
proper setup..proper training..proper collar"

an earlier poster said they were cruel..then said that when the sensor was turned up it gave a bigger shock. giving advise about something that they didnt know how it worked. thats why i made the above comment. at least check it out first before you write it off. was not aimed at you..

Zapperzy

I have never felt the shock off a shock collar so cannot comment on the pain of it, a few issues that I have with these invisible fences aside from the pain aspect of it is that they do not stop people or other dogs coming onto your property so that leaves your dog open to being attacked by a straying dog coming on to your property or to dog thieves easily walking into your garden and taking your dog.
Lately there has been so many cases of dogs being stolen and it's not just in the big cities it's everywhere, even in rural areas, I personally know of one woman who had 2 boxers stolen, one male one female (both not neutered so stolen for breeding) and they lived in the back end of nowhere in rural sligo. So I would have thought people would be more conscious of keeping their dogs secure and safe, with an invisible fence this is not possible, at least with a fenced in garden or run you can lock gates with padlocks and make the garden harder to see into.

pokertalk

dont know much about these but is it not kind of like kicking or hitting your dog[but worse] as a way of training them .putting fear into a dog as a method of telling it what not to do seems a bidtf...ed up

DoMyBooks

We've been using electric collars on our two dogs for the last 3 years.

Before I put the collar on the dog I shocked myself with it, Its not too bad. Since then i've been shocked a few times (once through stupidity while testing the fence and a few times showing friends why I dont believe its cruel)

The dogs wern't impressed while being trained but got used to the collar very quickly. In the 3 years we had it they have never escaped and are happy out. The dogs are terrier/sheepdog/273 other breeds mixed in and are very ingenious. There small (10kgs) and managed to scale a 6 foot wood fence in our last house by landing on it and climbing over.

Had I read some of the links above I would certainly have thought twice before putting the collars on but at the time our options were limited and they work well.
We had a bichon pup who was too small to use the collar and she managed to escape out of the garden through after a visitor left the gate open and was killed by a passing tractor.

I would certainly consider putting the collar on other dogs.

Hope this helps

boxerly

Shock collars = CRUEL !! IMO.Why not spent the money on building a big huge run? for when ye go out.Ive seen dogs with burns from them and its not nice .

Senna

I would agree that these fences aren't a good idea for most people.
I've had one for over a year and it's worked out brilliant, but that's because i spent the time to train the dog into it. It was in place for over a month before the dog was allowed out on his own, in that first month he was only allowed out on a lead or while supervised. Since then he can spend hours outside even without the collar, and will happily play in his safe area. He outside everyday for about 5-6 hours, but its about a month since he had the collar on.

Our garden is over an acre and fencing just isn't a possibility, its worked very well for us, but i would not recommend it. Most people will just put out the wire and let the dog learn from his mistakes, thats barbaric and cruel. If you looking for a quick fix, build a run or walls, but not an electric collar.

koppy

politicsdude wrote: »

I'm thinking of getting one of those collars you know the ones where you can set out an area kinda like an electric fence to keep the dog from running out on the road but to allow him to have a bit of freedom.
The collars are very expensive though like 150 quid or something are they worth the cost?

basically the answer is yes they are worth 150 quid.

when used right they are an excellent way of controlling your dog within your garden. when set up correctly and proper training is carried out they are extremely good and cheap (compared to fencing a garden) method.

cruelty issues are found when training and set up recommendations are not followed. takes at least 4/5 weeks to train and training needs to be topped up every 6-8 weeks. most people only hear of the disaster stories and see the horror pictures caused by lack of above.

from what i've seen works on all size dogs. my dog is small bishon and went to see how it works in a house with two german shepards. have heard of boxers working with it as well. dogs will cross the line if not prpoerly trained as the Shock the recieve is no where near as "cruel" as made out by people who only see the horror stories and have never seen the proper safe fully trained syetem.

falabo

this is cruelty to animals and should be made illegal.

sure if you have a big fancy house with land because you entered that competetion during the boom, you should be able to afford proper fences ....

boxerly

I totally agree

Green Hornet

No point being a part of this thread because people seem intent on believing that owners purposely bring their dogs into contact with the electric fence multiple times.:rolleyes:

People dont seem to understand that the fence is used to mark out a boundary and the dog then identifies that boundary AS the boundary and does not get a shock.

To be honest, I find the idea of tying a dog up with a chain or allowing them a few metres of a run a hell of a lot more cruel! So please dont come on here shouting about people who use the electric fences PROPERLY as cruel. Take a look at yourselves and how you restrict your dogs freedom.

In reality I dont believe anybody on this thread aims to be cruel to animals so it bugs me when I see all this cruelty stuff thrown about. Sure there are electric fence owners in the worls who are cruel, equally there are chain owners and dog run owners who are cruel.

koppy

falabo wrote: »

this is cruelty to animals and should be made illegal.

sure if you have a big fancy house with land because you entered that competetion during the boom, you should be able to afford proper fences ....

i dont have a big fancy house with land and i cant afford fencing. if i could afford fencing i dont think i would like it at the front of my house. as i said earlier i only had two choices one of these or get rid of the dog..

tying up a dog or putting him in a small run is cruelty and should be made illegal. so i didn't see these as an option.

i did my research on these before buying and all my opinions on these are based on actual experiences and not a face book page or scaremongering by others.

goat2

andreac wrote: »

You were saing to turn it up higher, i said thats cruel as they get a bigger shock, and then you thanked me.
I wasnt agreeing with you, i was disagreeing saying its cruel.

i got one for my dogs,
they roared when they got the first shock
then a week into the wearing of collar i found it had to be scrapped as i did think it was too harsh on them, since then i take them for walk every day and train them to my way and they are doing great
those collars were a nuisance, they administered pain and were cumbersome around the neck
threw them in recycling bin

ISDW

koppy wrote: »

i dont have a big fancy house with land and i cant afford fencing. if i could afford fencing i dont think i would like it at the front of my house. as i said earlier i only had two choices one of these or get rid of the dog..

tying up a dog or putting him in a small run is cruelty and should be made illegal. so i didn't see these as an option.

i did my research on these before buying and all my opinions on these are based on actual experiences and not a face book page or scaremongering by others.

Its because you don't think you'd like fencing at the front of your house that you use it? , so either shock the dogs or rehome them? I'm sorry, but thats ridiculous.

I have fencing around approximately 2 acres, so my dogs are safely contained and have plenty of room to run around in - it is 6foot high and has padlocks on the gates to stop anybody coming in. I only bought the place 3 years ago, and one of the things I looked at when I was buying, was how easily it could be fenced for my dogs.