Shopping Genie

nov_babe

Hi,
First off sorry if I'm posting on the wrong forum but need some tech advice about the shopping genie scheme (Scam???)
Has anyone heard of this. The basic idea is to by a license from these guys and get your friends and family to download a free application that pops up when you enter searches in Google, amazon etc. The shopping genie searches through all the sites and pulls back the best prices for you.
This does not cost the user anything and the license owner makes money once the user clicks on anything within the shopping genie.
It reeks of scam to me but my husband is all for it.

Has anyone heard of it and is it as bad as I think it is?

Any help/opinions would be greatly appriecated.

whatstherush

Your instincts are right this is a pyramid scheme all the way. Went to one of the meetings as well.

First of all the actual shopping genie app is a ball of sh1te.
The hook is, you buy the rights to distribute the application and then are supposed to give it away for free to friends etc. If it is then used by friends to search for goods or purchase anything you are meant to get a percentage of add click and sale revenue.

The first problem with this is the are X amount of price comparison sites that do this already. Secondly having tried the app I can tell you it doesn't even do a price comparison search. You enter a search term in google and the app then gives 5 or 6 links for amazon, tesco, pricegrabber etc which it just redirects your search term into those sites. Did you by the way see the app working at your presentation cause they didn't show it at mine, just a bunch of sh1ty slides. They claim that this will "Have more clicks then google" but they don't even show it working.

So the promise of add click/ good sale percentages revenue is the hook that gets you in. Now comes the pyramid side of it. To give the software away you have to become a distributor which costs €200 with a €22 a month subscription charge. They then say wouldn't it be a great idea that instead of giving the software away to your friends you sign them up as distributors also. In doing so you get a €100 of there signing on fee, two friends signed up and you have your money back. Anybody they sign you get a further percentage of that signing on fee and so you have your pyramid. They have set out levels where by if your TREE (their euphemism for a pyramid) grows to certain amount you move up a level and get more money.

The scary thing for me about this was that, about 95% of the people at the presentation were hooked on every word.

e04bf097

It isn't a scam, its a free product!

Its not a pyramid scheme as such ( like the ones in the 80's) where you would have to purchase a particular product in bulk from the guy above at a slightly less price than you were able to sell it for.

The type of system this uses is a variant of direct sales
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_selling

However, the free mygenie product is almost secondary to the selling of the business, i.e getting people to become distributors...

I have already broken even on it after a month, and am now in profit. You only need to recruit 4 people as distributors to break even, after that its all profit

PaulPinnacle

e04bf097 wrote: »

You only need to recruit 4 people as distributors to break even..

Sorry, but reading that all I saw was "Yes. It's a pyramid scheme".

If some of the false promises and unrealistic expectations outlined by whatstherush are true, then it's employing very questionable marketing techniques which again stink of a pyramid scheme.

As for the product itself, I've never heard of it before so can't comment with any authority. Having said that, it's a product I wouldn't use (even if provided for free) or be interested in investigating in any detail, so shows that instantly your 'target market' is limited (I'd suggest that there are MANY that would share my view of it).

whatstherush

e04bf097 wrote: »

However, the free mygenie product is almost secondary to the selling of the business, i.e getting people to become distributors...

All I am going to say to the above comment is WTF.

This wonderful product that has more clicks then google is secondary to getting more people to become distributors. i.e get more people into the pyramid below you.

Have you made 1 cent off add click or percentage sales from genie app?

e04bf097

Have you made 1 cent off add click or percentage sales from genie app?

Yes i have, the first (and only) cheque arrived last week and I received $40.21 which isn't great, but it has covered my monthly subscription of 22 euro. I have 31 genies installed on various pc's of friends and family.

The presentation showed an average of 3 dollar return per month per genie so in that case I guess i'm below what they would advertise as the average.

Sorry, but reading that all I saw was "Yes. It's a pyramid scheme".

When i say its not a pyramid scheme as such, i mean Its not going to put you into any great debt. It does however use a pyramid model without the need for an extortionate capital investment.

When people think of pyramid schemes (and what scares them) is they think of a scheme that they have to put an extortionate amount of money i.e 20,000 euro...

In this case its a small once off amount of money (200 dollars) and a 29 euro monthly fee and with a little bit of work you can make your return (+ a few quid extra). I'm not claiming that its going to make me a millionaire, its just a little bit of extra cash a month.

However i do agree that down the line it will eventually become unsustainable for new people coming along.

**So in a nutshell**

The good news:

• I have made my money back
• I have received my money for recuiting my distributors (50 dollar once off per person)
• I have received click revenue.
• I will continue to receive click revenue provided the genies are installed and are used occasionally
• I am receiving 10 dollars a month (every month) per person i have recruited as a distributor, and will continue to receive it.
• A small portion of my click revenue has been from genies that my distributors have given away for free (about 1/5th)

The bad news :

• This is unsustainable, there will come a time when it will saturate, though considering the nature of the product it may take some time

• I have not seen one that is "Ireland Specific", i.e the end goal of this is to have a comparison of local shops and retailers, should they submit their prices. This hasn't happened yet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-level_marketing is the correct term should have used earlier, apologies

whatstherush

e04bf097 wrote: »

When i say its not a pyramid scheme as such, i mean Its not going to put you into any great debt. It does however use a pyramid model without the need for an extortionate capital investment.

At the end of the day its a pyramid scheme. You seem to think that because it's a small amount it makes it alright and thats fair enough, hope your friends aren't left at the bottom of the pile.

From your own wiki link
The FTC states "Steer clear of multilevel marketing plans that pay commissions for recruiting new distributors. They're actually illegal pyramid schemes. Why is pyramiding dangerous? Because plans that pay commissions for recruiting new distributors inevitably collapse when no new distributors can be recruited. And when a plan collapses, most people-except perhaps those at the very top of the pyramid-end up empty-handed."

As for your click revenue I don't see how the that App can deliver one cent never mind €40.
Have you used the app to buy anything, do you think its useful?
Call me skeptical but I'd imagine the click revenue is just some of your pyramid money re-channeled to give an illusion that it makes money.

p.s. I presume you'll be filling a self assessment tax form and sending it off to the revenue

carbayon

I have to agree with the sceptical opinion on the shopping genie. These companies are no longer called "pyramid" schemes, but now they are called MLM (Multi Level Marketing) and there are many of them.

I was at a presentation in Dublin myself, and the present claimed and proved that he made over €20,000 in a month. Given that he is at the top and every person signing in Dublin and UK are under him, I can understand that.

However, what he failed to mention on the presentation is how much he spent over all renting venues in Cork, Dublin, Galway, Limerick and in the UK, he also failed to address expenses for flying to the UK. Lastly, given that a Canadian speaker spent almost a month in Ireland/UK attending the presentations, he too failed to disclaim those expenses. I reckon he spent close to what he earned making sure other people signed, so he can make more money.

On regards of the product itself, the system doesn't do what it says, it claims it can find you the cheapest price. What it does is opens other websites, none of which work in Ireland, and you have to sort the cheapest price from those sites. When you search for a product the program opens up and covers the right-side of the screen (sits on top of the Google ads), from there if you click on the compare button, the software opens between 5 and 10 sites on an interval between 1 second and 10 seconds. The sites that it opens are the real comparison sites (kelkoo, ciao!, Shopping, BizRate, Google Product Search, DealTime and others), at no point the product presents a list of the 10 cheaper prices or anything similar, all it does is saving you from having to manually open the sites and re-type the search.

I have not examined the product further, but I am guessing that when the compare button is pressed and the comparison sites are opened, a payment is processed between the sites and Shopping Genie's parent company, same technology used by any advertisement on the web. (I can dig dipper if people wants me to do so)

Now, for the MLM business; as said by other people before, the money comes from selling the license and building something that in paper looks like a pyramid, I sell to two people (2 on level 2), they each sell to two people (4 on level 3) they each sell to two people (8 on level 4) and so far, this grows exponentially by level if every keeps the sales. Per-click-payment are "mentioned" at $3 per month, and this could be truth at the start; people is curious and start 'playing' with it until they get bored. But the question to be asked is how often is people going to use the product. This is great for expensive purchases (TV, laptop, perfume [the expensive one], sim-free phones,...) but not every day items, I would not compare my soup prices, my soap prices, my bread,.... so again, how often does a person by an "expensive" item, once a month? if that often.

On the presentation as said by another person before, they show slides, so you never get to see the product on-action, imagine going to by a car, looking at the brochure and saying YES I take the car. This is similar, the presentation show "sort of " how it works, but fails to address the opening of other pages; further more, since the main guy is from Northern Ireland, all the examples are in £, a convenient way to avoid the awkwardness of explaining it does not work in Ireland; although he mentions that it will work "better" in the future.

Anyone joining a MLM company will make money, that is a proven fact, but is not a job where you get thousand of Euro (or Dollars) for little or no work, which is what most MLMs "trick you to believe". They always promise to make you money with little work; just doing it part-time. But as with any JOB, the harder you work the more you make. You will earn money, that is been proven on this post, but you will have to put the time and expense to earn money, you will have to do phone calls, you will have to travel places, you will have to meet people over lunch or coffee. If you are joining thinking that you are going to make thousands a month just working few hours a month, you will be in for a surprise. [e04bf097, you got $40, but how much did you spend on phone calls, petrol driving to meet people,...? and how much time did you put onto the program?]

My conclusion is to avoid any company the uses the MLM system, where you are selling a license to either sell a product, or in this case give it for free, none of these companies have a sustainable future. As with everything on life, these companies fall in the 80/20 rule; 20% of the people (those on the top) make 80% of the money while 80% of the people (those on the lower levels) make 20% of the money. The company is structured so you spend time and energy chasing to get onto higher levers by selling more, the more you sell they more the top people make and the more you make, but like an ass after a carrot, you will never get the carrot, not matter how fast you travel.

PaulPinnacle

carbayon wrote: »

Anyone joining a MLM company will make money, that is a proven fact..

This comment seems at odds with what is otherwise a very pragmatic and level headed review of the situation.

When the entry fee is as high as is the case here, there is absolutely no guarantee of someone making back their initial investment, never mind a 'will make money'. Maybe that was intended to be a 'can', otherwise, I'd love to see the 'proof'.

carbayon

PaulPinnacle;

You are 100% sure, at no point on my post I said that I person will recover there initial or monthly investment.

The difference between a REAL pyramid scheme (outlaw on many countries) and a MLM, is that in a MLM a person HAS to make money.

In this particular case, If I buy the license and pay the monthly fee, and I am the only user and use it "as intended" (and regularly), I should get my $3 (or there about) for pay-per-click every month.

Yes, I am paying $30 monthly fee and I am getting $3 back, but I am making money. I am also loosing $27, plus the $199 license fee (because I don't sell licenses or I give the software to other users) but I am getting paid; thus, this can't be considered a pyramid scheme.

I do hope this clear some of the confusion.

P.S. I am covering my behind, I don't want to receive legal letters.

PaulPinnacle

carbayon wrote: »

... I am making money. I am also loosing $27..

Does that not look a little odd to you? How can you be 'making money' if you're losing money?

The scheme is generating a residual income, but one that doesn't meet the overheads required and is resulting in a net monthly loss. In that case, the scheme is losing money not 'making money'.

serarra

PaulPinnacle wrote: »

Does that not look a little odd to you? How can you be 'making money' if you're losing money?

The scheme is generating a residual income, but one that doesn't meet the overheads required and is resulting in a net monthly loss. In that case, the scheme is losing money not 'making money'.

Actually, you are making money.
You are not recovering your money, as Carbayon said, but you are MAKING money. It's not worth the original investment (and so it is a sh**y scheme) but if you were able to get looooots of people signed with your license, you would be making money.
But as Carbayon said, the program is not customized for Ireland, and on top of that, there is not enough market share in here (3 million people market, against UK or any other european market where (if the product where worth it) you could really make a profit.

But as discussed, it will saturate too soon, and on top of that, after seeing it in use, I would maybe use it myself once or twice, but as it doesn't really does anything else than open a search page on amazon, etc, I would not botter with it after one week, and like me, lot of people.

So, e04bf097o, it could be that you do those 40 euros this month, but next month, when people gets tired of the novelty, how much will you get?? Or the following month...

My opinon.

PaulPinnacle

serarra wrote: »

You are not recovering your money, as Carbayon said, but you are MAKING money.

There's a difference between 'generating income' (which then fails to meet the required overheads) and 'making money' in my book. A fairly big one.

Having said that, I'm happy to admit I'm not qualified to debate the semantics of it. If others wish to describe losing €X per month as proven fact of 'making money', so be it.

carbayon

My point is the a MLM company will send you a cheque, while a 'pyramid scheme' will not pay you any money.

This is a whole new discussion and I could start a new posting, but this is moving away from the initial topic.

The initial posting was about Shopping Genie and if it is a SCAM.

Is it a SCAM?
- No, is a MLM company. If it was a SCAM the government would (and should) stop it.

Does it work?
- Depends on how much time and effort you put onto it. Some people get their investment back, some won't.

Is it a sustainable income source?
- No really, the main money is earned by selling the licenses.
Eventually the sale of licenses fades away and the income drops
Residual income will drop off with time, leaving you with no income.

Will it make you reach with little work?
- No, it will require work, time and investment to give a return
Return depends on time and investment given to the scheme
A small (VERY SMALL) number will make lots of money, but those are at the top.

Is it as simple as explained?
- Depends; this is a SALES scheme, if you can sell ice to Eskimos it will work.
If you can't sell (and not everyone can) it will be difficult and uphill battle.

MLM people don't run it as a business, so they failed to count the investment of time and expenses and subtract them from their income (this is the technique used in the seminars). They are promised $2000 a month (just to say a number) but they have to subtract mobile phone bills, petrol (and car expenses), lunches and meals and of course, taxes that they have to pay on income earned.

Conclusion, as with any business, it will work, but I will not make you a millionaire. You will get payments, but the amount depends on how hard you work. Saturation will happened, so don't expect income for years to come.

carbayon

Is it a sustainable income source?
- No really, the main money is earned by selling the licenses.
Eventually the sale of licenses fades away and the income drops
Residual income will drop off with time, leaving you with no income.

Will it make you reach with little work?
- No, it will require work, time and investment to give a return
Return depends on time and investment given to the scheme
A small (VERY SMALL) number will make lots of money, but those are at the top.

Is it as simple as explained?
- Depends; this is a SALES scheme, if you can sell ice to Eskimos it will work.
If you can't sell (and not everyone can) it will be difficult and uphill battle.

MLM people don't run it as a business, so they failed to count the investment of time and expenses and subtract them from their income (this is the technique used in the seminars). They are promised $2000 a month (just to say a number) but they have to subtract mobile phone bills, petrol (and car expenses), lunches and meals and of course, taxes that they have to pay on income earned.

Conclusion, as with any business, it will work, but I will not make you a millionaire. You will get payments, but the amount depends on how hard you work. Saturation will happened, so don't expect income for years to come.

curtisirl

The shopping genie is not a scam or pyramid scheme its a mlm company.
Im making more money with this company then i have put in. As other people have already stated you will not make money off this without putting in a bit of effort. If anyone would like more information feel free to contact me.

carbayon

curtisirl;

That is exactly what I said with less words, it is a MLM.

And most (if not all) the money you are making is from selling licenses, not from the pay-per-click.

Have you deducted all your other expenses from profit (i.e. phone bill, travelling..)?

Lastly, have you divided your time by the net profit? this calculates your hourly rate; how much you make per hour worked, the minimum wage is circa €8.50

curtisirl

carbayon
firstly i have no expenses as i use this magical invention called the internet

secondly you cannot say "And most (if not all) the money you are making is from selling licenses, not from the pay-per-click" as you have no idea how i am making my money from this company.

thirdly until you try the company for yourself you should not say it doesnt work as you have no idea if it does or not

and finally the old classic if you have nothing good to say , say nothing at all

carbayon

curtisirl wrote: »

firstly i have no expenses as i use this magical invention called the internet

I would like to have this FREE internet; I have to pay for mine. Although mines is just regular, is not magical. Next you will tell me that VoIP calls are free to landlines and mobiles; if so, please let me know about these free magical products.

curtisirl wrote: »

secondly you cannot say "And most (if not all) the money you are making is from selling licenses, not from the pay-per-click" as you have no idea how i am making my money from this company.

This is true, I don't have an idea how you make your money, but the real question is, do you know how you are making the money?

curtisirl wrote: »

thirdly until you try the company for yourself you should not say it doesnt work as you have no idea if it does or not

As you said, you can't say that, how do you know I haven't tried it?
I know it works, I have always said the the company will send you cheques; the money you make is in relation to the effort you put.

curtisirl wrote: »

and finally the old classic if you have nothing good to say , say nothing at all

What happened to freedom of speech? is your magical internet not a place where people interchange ideas freely?

Your behaviour is classic of those with no defence, rather than argue and support your points with facts, you attached me personally.

I have expressed my views (although may a bit bias), but I have stated is not a scam and I have explained is a MLM. I have done tons of research on this product and it is my opinion that any person that joins will make money, but they will not make millions; the return is based on hours worked and effort put into not only giving the Genies, but also selling the licenses.

nov_babe

Well, I tend to agree with the "you will make mony but at what expenses" people. Despite my reservations my husband is going ahead with it and he is the type of person that would sell ice to the Eskimos so hopefully he will make some money at it. I have him assurance that he will monitor it carrfully and reasses the situation every three months and if there is a loss or the revenue dries up he will pull out.

I, like others here, have found the produce slightly useless and I know myself that I would only use it once or twice before ignoring it. Appartently it is being launched properly in ireland in the next few weeks and once it is launched the searches will be better but I'm not holding my breath.

The first cheques should start arriving in a couple of weeks so if anyone is interested I'll keep you posted.

carbayon

Nov Babe;

The only thing I have to say is that once he joins, he SHOULD avoid family and friends. These are the "easy" targets the MLM company recommends you start with. On the sales pitch the say "every one has 100 numbers on their phone, those are your first sales".

If (and when) the business fails, family will forgive, but may not forget; on the other hand, friends will become "we used to be friends until..."

Ask your husband to keep track of licenses sold, as the cheques do not differentiate between license and real pay-per-click, so if he receives a €207 cheque, and he sold 4 licenses, then he only made €7 on "real" pay-per-click. This is another trick, by seeing a "pay-per-click" cheque, you forget the license sales and think that is "residual" income.

Lastly, I do recommend that you take two minutes to read the following posts, MLM business model, the top get richer the more you work and MLM (Multi-Level Marketing) – My personal view based on a real life story

Again, good luck on your husband's new venture.

MLMwatch

Hi folks,

I was in the Shopping Genie business for a couple of months. I even had a couple of people signed up under me. I started hearing some disturbing rumours about the legality of the system. I have published my research here.
http://byfocal.com/byfotech/?page_id=5

In summary - best left alone.

Cheers,

MLMwatch

scamdiscovery

Thanks Mlm watch!!:) About time folks protested about this? Who are the people promoting this Harry Raeburn? Dorinda Burke? GMT Promoters? another scam who is in this making the big money? where is the product? Where is the cost comparsion website? What is the money for their retirement?

cherryghost

FFS sick of this shyte. Been inundated with oblivious people who don't have a clue about how PCs work in the first place. There's a meeting on wednesday night here about it.

I'm thinking about going down there and giving them a good bollocking.

carbayon

cherryghost;

The easiest thing to do is to ask (while the presentation is on going) How does the software compare prices? If they answer it uses comparison sites, then ask what site? are they Irish?

[Most likely they will tell you the system will be configured for Ireland on the next few weeks]

When the pay cheques are shown during the presentation, ask Who is paying for the hotel rooms and the flights to England?

Lastly, you could comment by saying that why would you need a program, if you can open the same sites yourself?, and walk out.

Just an idea......

cherryghost

carbayon wrote: »

cherryghost;

The easiest thing to do is to ask (while the presentation is on going) How does the software compare prices? If they answer it uses comparison sites, then ask what site? are they Irish?

[Most likely they will tell you the system will be configured for Ireland on the next few weeks]

When the pay cheques are shown during the presentation, ask Who is paying for the hotel rooms and the flights to England?

Lastly, you could comment by saying that why would you need a program, if you can open the same sites yourself?, and walk out.

Just an idea......

No mate I won't go easy. I work in an internet cafe. The people that have come in and demonstrated the program don't even have a clue how a pc works.

To top things off, the idea of myself becoming a distributor, and if things don't work out as intended, I'm forcing myself to sell the idea onto my customers to recoup my losses.

Sorry, but risky business any way you look at it

Pat1970

I went along to a meeting in Athlone tonight. (Sept 16th 2010). Presentation was given by a Des Mc XXXX from Dundalk. Very good presenter (said he worked in Media and built websites.) What i can't understand is why these companies think or pretend to have these "killer Apps" and still they try to use MLM to get them to the public.
Can they not learn from Bebo, FaceBook, Twitter or YouTube that if it a good product people will find out about it and use it.
I use FaceBook every day.
It also was free. No one told me to join it, it just came up so often in conversation with my friends and family that I said I'd have to join up.
I used to LOVE AltaVista as a search Engine. But Google became my search engine of choice because more and more people were using it. Google is also free.

So what I'm saying is, if MSG was/is such a great App and did it's job as good the presenter said it would, then, people would latch onto it.

Using MLM, it is a case of "get in and get out". Only the top few who were 1st in the door will make money on this.

Another funny thing I saw in Athlone. The people who already hold licences or as they call them “distributors " were all chipping in 5 Euro each at the door. I didn’t understand what this was for until after. It appears as if they were paying for the meeting room. I could be wrong. Which brings me to thinking why would they do that? One local woman said she made money in just 2 weeks. Another man said he had gone “Global” (got to the 3rd level) in 5 weeks. Afterwards I was in the car park and saw him getting into a KK reg Merc. So did he travel up from Kilkenny for this meeting? If so it means that this meeting was well planned and he is part of a “team” which is another thing mentioned during the presentation.

Now don’t get me wrong. I have thrown away more than 156 Euro ($199) on non-profit making ventures in the past and I will do so again in the future, but this one stank of all the usual promises given with affiliate and MLM business ideas. “The biggest re-distribution of wealth ever on the planet” and “Move over Google”. Bull****. I wanted to walk out there and then when I heard that.

Finally, if this App, which I am not even going to download, sits on top of Google ads, and if it were to cause a drop in revenue for Google in any shape or form, I don’t think Google would like it very much. Therefore I think Google would find some way of blocking the App or perhaps they would just say, “Hot darn them Shopping Genie people, we have no answer, we’ll just quit our business and let go all our workers!”

I don’t think so… do you???

MLMwatch

Cheers Pat,

Congratulations on spotting the emporer's lack of clothes so quickly. I suspect your expectations weren't high going in.

I know Des. He is a nice genuine guy who actually thinks this is a good idea. If Mr KK Merc is who I think it is then he wouldn't be in the same category. If he was late fifties, 6 ft 2 plus and looks like he can lift a cow on his shoulder then he is who I think.

You are correct that the fiver is to spread the room hire cost among distributors present. Not unreasonable as they could easily make money from the evening.

You raised some interesting points that I hadn't considered, especially around Google. Well done.

I suspect I might go down some wrong paths myself before I find the plan B.

Keep up the good work.

kdevo1

My friend made me install this app last week,was on the verge of buying a golf club off mcguirks web page for €349,used this app and searched for the same club with it,directed me to a store in england,got the club for €295 free shipping to ireland,its worked for me,i love my new driver and i love its price:)

Pat1970

Good for you Kdevo1. Keep swinging that golf club!

(oh and by the way ... no one will notice that you have only posted once on this site so far ... honest!)

MLMwatch

If it didn't achieve some results for the end user it would have crashed and burned long ago. Well done on the driver. See if your friend is still in the business in a month.

kdevo1

why dont you install the software,it'll only take 20 sec to install,its free so your not losing out on anything!!search for an item or product that you bought recently or your going to buy and see if the app finds it for less,maybe the business aint for you but at least try the free app and see if it works!!If it does'ent,come back to this thread and release all your fury!!!!!

MLMwatch

If you read my blog you will see that I am an ex distributor for the genie and you will also find out why I am an ex distributor.
My blog is on http://byfocal.com/byfotech/?page_id=5
The genie is on all the computers in the house. I am gradually removing it and advising my erstwhile customers to do the same.

Cheers,

MLMwatch

phonez

some points that have not been made regarding the Shopping Genie.

1 the $199 is not taken from your credit card until the 31st day which means that you have a 30 day get out clause which you control. if you feel within the 30 days that its not for you or you want your money back, you log into your back-office and log yourself out, thus getting your full refund. Pyramid schemes don't give you that option.if after the 30 days you decide not to go on, you again select to opt out and the payments stop as do the cheques coming in.

2. this is not a pyramid scheme, Pyramid Schemes involve a product that you buy from the person above you. with the shopping genie there is no product. do a search on the web for the difference between the two.

3. the point made about the FTC stating that you should "steer clear" seems to have come from wikipedia, an open source information site that can be edited by anyone that wants to. i cant find anything of the sort on the FTC website. please correct me if i am wrong.

4. this business has the Vice President of CNN/Fox behind it for Gods sake

my business partner and i were approached to sign up to the genie about 6 weeks ago. my partner jumped straight in and i held back and did my research and waited to see what he would get from it. in his first four weeks he got $1900. based on the fact that i had seen this proof and that i could get my money back GUARANTEED i joined up last week.

as stated above, this is not a "permanent" source of income, nor should it be considered as ones main income. yes if you work hard at it you will make money, how much you make will determine how much you put into it in work terms, the same as any business. how long it is going to last? i don't know. but while the opportunity is there i am going to take it and run with it. at the end of the day if it does fall flat on its face, and i have made some money out of it then i have nothing to complain about. if i loose $199 because i am too lazy to get up of my ass and make it work for me, then thats no one else's fault but my own.

the thing that people here cant understand and why they think it 's a scam is that the outlay is minimal and the profits are huge. i have seen the proof.

if anyone can show me verifiable proof that this is a scam i will gladly sign myself out and donate the money to a nominated charity

MLMwatch

Thanks for the reply Phonez, interesting stuff.

Your definition of a scam is not in line with the law. The law considers it a scam when the people that get in fast and early make a few quid but the poor folks who get in late and last are left wondering what hit them why they bothered. ie - the revenue is generated primarily by network building.

I'll take that bet. Give it till the end of September, if you can say hand on heart that you believe it to be legit then I will apologise to you on here shut up on this forum.

That is how long I would guess until it all blows up. It is approaching critical mass.

Otherwise I would vote for the Simon Community as a worthy charity.

Watch this space.

phonez

MLM watch

thanks for your open minded response

bet taken. if i am still happy to be associated with the shopping genie by the end of September then you will accept its legit and publish that on this forum, however if it turns out to be a scam, and i need verifiable Garda proof, then i will donate the sign up fee $199 to the Simon community

i would love to see the actual definition in law that you speak about because, if it is a scam according to the law, why didn't the Gardai come down to the Red Cow and make arrests?

Phones

MLMwatch

Hi Phonez,

I can't guarantee my opinion will change but I am prepared to publicly respect your decision and concede the lack of proof in this forum.

The Gardai grind slow - if you change that from "Garda" proof to "Legal" proof that the Gardai can act on I think that would be fair. It is not up to the Gardai to make legal decisions. They enforce such decisions. They act on their perception of the law which may then be tested in court.

Why haven't they acted ? Probably because there has been no complaint. I certainly haven't complained.

The laws that you expressed a desire to see are at -

The National Consumer Association document (which in itself does not have legal standing) provides guidance on this Act:

http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Hot_Topics/Our-booklets/NCA-consumer-protection-act.pdf

-see pages 32-33 for pyramid schemes details and definitions


The Consumer Protection Act 2007 (current Irish law) itself is at:

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2007/a1907.pdf

-see pages 56-58 relating to pyramid schemes

Rumour has it that RTE have done some interviews re the Genie for prime time. It's on twice a week, Tues and Thurs. I will be starting to watch or record Prime Time from tonight. You might do the same. They are total ferrets. If there is clear legal proof one way or the other they will certainly dig it up.

A contact of mine who is still in the Genie tells me that the Genie guys are obtaining a favourable legal opinion from an Irish solicitor. That would be a huge plus for you.

Have a great day.

MLMwatch.

whatstherush

phonez wrote: »

3. the point made about the FTC stating that you should "steer clear" seems to have come from wikipedia, an open source information site that can be edited by anyone that wants to. i cant find anything of the sort on the FTC website. please correct me if i am wrong.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/ecommerce/bus28.shtm

under the Pyramid scheme header

MLMs should pay commissions for the retail sales of goods or services, not for recruiting new distributors.

phonez wrote: »

4. this business has the Vice President of CNN/Fox behind it for Gods sake

Can you provide a link to prove the above. You do realize CNN and Fox are separate rival companies and would not have the same vice president. If you mean that person worked at both at different times, fine, again please provide link to support this.

phonez wrote: »

in his first four weeks he got $1900. based on the fact that i had seen this proof and that i could get my money back GUARANTEED i joined up last week.

How did he make $1900? From the genie or his "tree".

phonez wrote: »

if anyone can show me verifiable proof that this is a scam i will gladly sign myself out and donate the money to a nominated charity

All you have to do is use the genie and ask yourself is this something that can make me $199 dollars on it's own without signing up distributors. If your honest with yourself you know it can't and the only way to make back the money is sign up distributors, which is a pyramid scheme.

Asked this off another genie supporter but got no answer, if everything is so legit, will you mate by filling a self assessment tax form. Going on your $1900, he's looking at $22,800 per annum.

carbayon

Not to flog the horse to death, but this topic has been debated on other links;
- http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056017156

- http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056031488

- http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056024024

In sort sentences, the company is a MLM company (Multi-Level Marketing), this is the legal way to say pyramid.

You buy a licenses to sell/give free a product, on this case the software. The bulk of the money comes from signing other people and those people will sign other people, thus creating a multi-level system.

The Genie doesn't really do anything, all it does is opens other sites (the real comparison sites) and saves you from having to retype the search again.

A real "genie" would search those sites, located the cheapest prices and open a single window with the prices from the other sites, the fact that only opens the other sites makes it something useless. After a while people will go to the sites directly.

The second problem is the $3 a month on residual income from each Genie installed, as explained on the other posts, you will only use the Genie for expensive items, so once or twice a month. People won't use it for clothes (as they will need to try them) or everyday items (milks, eggs, biscuits...) the genie will be use for big ticket items (laptop, a golf club, a camera...).

For the rest of my opinion on this matter visit the links above.

whatstherush

I'm a software engineer and below is my take on why the shopping genie app as opposed to the shopping genie scheme, can't make any money for individual distributors.

The basic premise of the shopping genie is that you give away the app, People use it to search for items, click on adds, purchase goods. You should then receive a % of add and sales revenue.
OK, so lets examine how this would work.
1: To be able to trace that people you gave the genie used it, the genie app would have to have some specific id programmed into it to uniquely identify it as coming from you.
2: The genie app itself does no price comparison. You enter a search term in google and when the google results are shown it provides you with links at the bottom of the screen. These links are redirects of your search term into the particular site's search engine. So if the genie is to make money, it must inform the third party site that is has just sent it a customer, and it also must record somewhere which genie gave the redirect so the appropriate distributor can get compensated.
3. With the third party site informed that it has got a redirect from the genie, it would then have track what that user purchased. Then if it got a percentage of the sales revenue it would have to give that revenue to the shopping genie company so the individual distributor could get compensated.

For all of the above to work, 2 critical things have to happen,
the third party site needs to know the redirect came from the shopping genie and some central shopping genie server needs to know that distributor Y's version of the shopping genie has just given a redirect so they can be compensated.

The attached image is from an app called Fiddler. It tracks all request that leave your computer and go out onto the internet. So when you click on the shopping genie link, you can see exactly what information leaves. This image shows the request that went out when after searching for ipod in google I clicked on the buy.com genie link. The thing to focus on is Request headers section towards the top right of the screen. This is the information being sent. Trust me when I say there is noting in this request that identifies this redirect has come from the shopping genie app. Also no info is sent to any main shopping genie server.


If there's no way to identify that redirects are coming from the genie there is no way to make money from it.

@carbayon, I have no problem with MLM's if the product or service can make at least some money, but this app can't make a red cent. Therefore its not MLM it's a pyramid scheme.

join my shopping genie

But i think that it is sustainable due to the main income stream in my chopping genie is advertising income, ie adverts clicks sold to the advertisers..

if any of you have a blog or website and happened to have an adsense account from google, or adbright etc.. than you will know that those companies are charging advertisers, local businesses or internet marketers anything from $0.10 to about $13 per click (the later is for example credit cards or mortgage niche) and that google will publish this advert on say my website as i have a publishing code from google, so if anyone clicks on this add on my website i will earn about 50% of that click charge.. and at the end of the month google will send the cheque to my post.

the shopping genie works the same, only it has a contract with publishers, say google or ebay, and than if anyone clicks through the software that i distributed my net universe (parent of my shopping genie) will get their 50% share of this click and than i turn will share it with me...

so the main source of income is actually from advertiser...

(i think that it is one of the reasons why it is so difficult to approve my shopping genie add on google - as it takes customers from them)

i personally use both of the publishing accounts google adsense and my shopping genie.

think that google slipped on on this one - they should have delivered this times ago - separate services of searching by the prices.

A few toughs of mine...

what do you think ?

join my shopping genie

it is not necessary to actually invite new people,
each software you distribute pays you on average $2-3 per month (provided that it is in use even randomly..

so say you distribute 100 of them you get at the end of the month $200
make it 1000=2000 etc...

the idea is good as it actually free for end user and provides real benefit showing the range of prices for one item -where you can select the cheapest one..

so all in all if you good at marketing and software distribution say online - you dont have to deal with inviting new distributors (which is major concern of all people as it seems) what you do is just distribute the software which is for free to end user and actually provides real benefit to the end user...

sound fair to me.

The pyramidal principle applies if you want to get rich by doing not much ( so in other word you want other people to do the work for you and you will be lazy counting profits... than you have to find new recruits.

Me personally - i would remove this option all together if this concerns people to much...

but anyway it is there so it provides those 20% perks from each referral that you refer, etc...


Anyway if anyone of you had a google adsense account and was blocked for any reason at all ;-) you know that you would want tho have some large intermediary company in-between, so that your adsense account would not be just shut down... :-))

any thoughts?

join my shopping genie

as i am interested in this topic myself and, as all developed and well educated people, want to hear constructive criticism about this topic, ( so that i will keep grow myself, and will not be one full, aqs a frog who just praises its own bog) please post any criticisms and comments here or to my private mail.

thank you and regards.

join my shopping genie

Does anyone knows how to start new tread here ?

i am completely new to this forum and will appreciate if you email me info as how to start a new tread.

or is it that the one have to be so much days on this board to be able to do so?

whatstherush

I have already posted my criticisms. Maybe you could describe exactly how you are meant to use the genie. Specifically the point where an end user would click on an add and earn the distributor revenue.

phonez

WHER DO I START???

MLMWatch: ok, happy with legal "proof" but it must be substantiated. i cant find any "legal proof" anywhere on the net that says it is a scam just peoples opinions. i will get back to you on the two documents as soon as i have read through them. yes there is a primetime program, tonight i think, but i can guarantee they are not going to paint a pretty picture knowing the media. yes allegedly they have enlisted a solicitor in Ireland which they do as a matter of course in every country that they operate in but my understanding is that this is for the purpose of suing anyone (media etc) who states publicly that it is a scam.

Whatstherush: thanks for the link. Re William Shaw: taken from the Mynetuniverse site: William Shaw has spent nearly three decades working as a Corporate Officer with legendary media mogul Ted Turner, first with Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. and now with Turner Enterprises, Inc.

Shaw has been responsible for various companies, overseeing departments, revenues and employees in the vast Turner Empire. He helped grow TBS from the SuperStation and CNN with 350 employees in 1981 to a media powerhouse with 11 networks, 10,000 employees and two movie studios with a net worth of $5 billion when it merged with Time/Warner in 1997.

also see Ted Turners site, http://www.tedturner.com/enterprises/home.asp he owns turner enterprises inc, who own CNN not sure where the Fox TV link is but William shaw is now Ted Turners right hand man.

my business partner made the $1900 through signing up people and yes he will be declaring it on his tax return, bye the way both he and i have other businesses and are not relying on this alone as i said in an earlier post. your last point is very misinformed, i suggest you go to a meeting and have it explained fully how you get the revenue.

carbayon: looked at the links you sent me but nothing concrete that will make me think otherwise. same contributors

Whatstherush: i will take a look at that piece of software and do some analysis on the genie with it and come back to you on it. yes each persons genie does have a specific ID code that enables the genie people to know who's genie is being used. i presume you have not seen the back office of the genie and how it works, i have and have seen others commission statements and cheques which i will grant you are unbelievable sums of money.

the last comment does not need any comment from me apart from, at last someone who can see the light.

here is a famous quote from the president and founder of Digital equipment in 1977 about home computers.

There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their home.
- Kenneth Olsen, president and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977.

just shows you how wrong people can be:D

filo87

It's on Prime Time now.

baldbear

I just saw that prime time programme. It sounds very dodgy allright. Trying to bullshít people with jargon who don't understand it.

I feel sorry for the guy in my local paper with an ad in it saying join up its great!!:eek:

country home

classic, just watched it all on prime time.

ok, its a scam/scheme, imo.

reason, simple. . . . .

I work for a multinational. . . we all know multinationals. . . we all rely on them. . . .

however,

the maner in which these guys came in to ireland, well its hardly thru IDA. .
secondly, if they had nothing to hide, they would have sat down and be willing to be interviewed. . .

If anyone cant see that this is a pyramid scheme, well, put it this way. . .
thats why they exist, its like the lotto form the nertherlands coming in the post. . . . why do they still do it. . . cause thers suckers out there with homer simpsons DNA. . .lol..

join my shopping genie

yes you are right...

this is one of the grey areas, and i be honest with you, ive spent some time writing email to my net universe about the actual clicks statistics..

they did not released it to me.

so i could not truck exactly what was my income (i am trainee auditor myself)


so my opinion i am given something as income but it c an be anything from 10% up to say 40% of my actual clicks.... and in this case you juts dont know what are they distributing to the software distributors....

uless they make their accounts public with the income streams shown separately.. so than you can compare incomes from clocks and incomes from license sales to the cost line of our share of clicks...


will look into it and once i will have more info will share it here

country home

join my shopping genie wrote: »

yes you are right...

this is one of the grey areas, and i be honest with you, ive spent some time writing email to my net universe about the actual clicks statistics..

they did not released it to me.

so i could not truck exactly what was my income (i am trainee auditor myself)


so my opinion i am given something as income but it c an be anything from 10% up to say 40% of my actual clicks.... and in this case you juts dont know what are they distributing to the software distributors....

uless they make their accounts public with the income streams shown separately.. so than you can compare incomes from clocks and incomes from license sales to the cost line of our share of clicks...


will look into it and once i will have more info will share it here

I'm an accountant,
2 questions,

are you a training to be an accountant?
are you in this scheme? like are you a distributor?