Just revealed I'm an athiest to my elderly parents. Need advice. Please help.

LegacyUser

Hey there,

I'm just wondering if any of you have been here?

I was raised Catholic, was an altar boy as a child, sang in a choir and attended mass pretty regularly up until last year (mid 20's) when I moved away from Ireland. I started living with two evangelical Christians (I did not know they were) and was devoutly Catholic (but kept it to myself) when we moved in together.

A lot of things then happened. Over time, I became pissed off at my housemates' constant proclamations of crap etc and trying to get me to see their view points when I was not trying to force my beliefs on them. This really irked me and prompted me to examine what exactly they believed in. Being a Catholic, and as its pretty much "a la carte" in Ireland - I did not like what I found and began questioning other faiths also. Basically I embarked upon a journey of debunking several different theistic concepts and became an agnostic. This examination of evidence was an academic pursuit as I am myself, an academic. So I really have looked and examined things. I really wanted there to be a god, but could find nothing.

I remained an agnostic for quite some time until recently, where I came to reason that religion is not totally a bad thing - and in fact, can do a lot of good for some people, but just not for me. I'm more from the Lewis Wolpert school of thinking than the Dawkinsian/Hitchens/Dennett camp, but now think of myself as an atheist.

I came home on some holidays recently to my home. My Mum always knew I had doubts and said that was okay. My parents are both very elderly, 70-80's. So they were raised in era's when the church exerted a formidable influence on state affairs. They are both both pretty religious.

Tonight, we were having a friendly conversion and my Dad exclaimed something I thought was really cool coming from a very conservative Catholic - that he viewed it as okay that people believed in different things as long as they were consistent with their beliefs etc. I viewed this as an opportunity to air my views on religion and that I was in fact, an atheist.

My parents were totally gobsmacked. They did not know what to say...they were in complete shock. Even my older brother was shocked that I had said it. I always said that i would not. Now I feel like a complete and utter asshole/dickhead/(insert insulting and derogatory phrase here).

I talked to them separately and they feel so disappointed in me, themselves and I feel so rotten for telling them. They feel like they have failed as parents and so do I as a person in terms of telling them. I am so down at this point in my life. I really want them to accept what I have said. I have lived a very successful life, a life most would give their right arm for. My heart was aching when I saw the disappointment in my father and mothers eyes. They have done a fantastic job of raising me to be the man I am today and I am living a good life, I just feel so rotten that I have let them down so much - but I can't help what I believe or don't believe.

I don't know what to do - or what to ask of you guys?

Just need some feedback, I need some thoughts on how to proceed.

Cheers,
H.

Beruthiel

My parents are also in their seventies and very religious. We were brought up as such. I've never felt the need to tell them I'm an atheist.
Like yours, it wouldn't go down well and unless they ask me straight out, I don't feel the need to say anything.

I think you should just leave it with them.
They already know you are a good child that they are proud of.
They know they did a good job.
They will not think they have failed.
They will just understand that this is something you have come to of your own accord.
If they bring it up again, thank them for doing such a good job with you and explain that you came to this conclusion after much thought.
I wouldn't get into the reasons why with them.
Personally, I would consider it rather cruel to try and convert my parents to atheism. They have had this faith all their lives, why try to burst their bubble in their twilight years?
They will love you no matter what, so relax and let time allow them to get to grips with this.

I just feel so rotten that I have let them down so much

Your thinking is flawed.
I would consider them letting you down by expecting you to believe in fairies.
It's hardly your fault that they decided to believe in a sky god without asking for proof somewhere along the way.

btw we have an Atheism forum on Boards.

Taltos

Just give them time and space.

Whatever you do though - try not to get drawn into any discussions with them on the merits or falsehoods of religion. If you want you could even say that you are constantly looking at your life and are open to welcoming religion when the time is right - this way for them they will have hope that you will find your way back to their teachings.

If pushed more than that just ask them to respect your views and let them know that you really don't want to discuss this with them. You just want to spend time with them - and tell them that the only thing that has changed from yesterday (before they knew) is their knowledge of what you believe.

Hope this works out for you, but with a parent around the same age I think we both know you have a struggle ahead of you. Best of luck.

dolphin city

why did you feel the need to tell them. Yu didn't have to come out and blurt it out. Especially as they are elderly. I'm sure you don't blurt out other things about your life to them so why that.

you should have used a bit more common sense and caring towards them.

dan_d

Emmmm....I wouldn't discuss it too much with them OP.

Bear in mind these are elderly people, who have had a level of faith throughout their lives that most of us will probably never understand. Also (to be extremely grim) they are facing the prospect of death much sooner than you are.Religion and the belief that there is something afterwards, is something that will be far more important to them than to you right now. If I were you, I'd keep my mouth shut.

You haven't failed them or they you, but I wouldn't discuss this much more. You are what you are right now, and that's fine for you. You're not a failure.

fatmammycat

They're just going to have to get over it. And I would stop discussing it with them too. You haven't changed as a person, you're still their child and I assume a decent human in your own right. Not ascribing to woo based bollocks does not make you a failure. I told my own mother years ago to quit it with the faith crap when talking to me as I believed none of it, she didn't like it then either, but had to accept it and move on. Part of being a parent is allowing that your children can think for themselves.

Bloody Nipples

This might be hard to hear but really it's hypocritical of your father to say it's ok for people to differ in their beliefs as long as they are consistent and then react with shock and disappointment when you reveal you're an atheist. You haven't done anything wrong. I'd say just give it time and though they may not like it they'll accept it. As long as you're not blaring it in their faces (and you don't come across as the kind of guy who would), it'll drift to the back of their minds and things will get back to normal.

MRBEAVER

I think you made a mistake telling them. A "Don't ask, Don't tell" policy is best in situations such as this. But you did nothing wrong either. maybe don't raise the subject with them again and bite your tongue if religion is discussed.

krudler

MRBEAVER wrote: »

I think you made a mistake telling them. A "Don't ask, Don't tell" policy is best in situations such as this.

And thats exactly the reason why religion has its claws into so many facets of Irish society to this day, people who get children baptised only to get them into a school instead of going with their true beliefs etc etc. Because people would rather just go with the crowd instead of standing up for themselves and saying they dont believe in any of that.

Fair play op, you told them the truth instead of plamasing them, like as was already said, you've done nothing wrong, at all.

The Corinthian

Cat's out of the bag, so there's not much you can do about it now except never raise the issue again and hope it blows over.

It could have been worse. You could have told them you were Protestant.

JuliusCaesar

In need of some guidance wrote: »

they feel so disappointed in me, themselves and I feel so rotten for telling them. They feel like they have failed as parents ......... I really want them to accept what I have said.

What's done is done, and on the contrary to most posters, fair play for wanting to have an honest adult relationship with your parents.

What is it about your loss of religion that bothers them? Is it that you won't get to heaven? Is it that they think atheists have no morals or ethics?

It's necessary to sort that out and separate it from their parenting (which after all only gives you a start in life). It might also help them to accept it, when they understand where their shock is coming from. HTH.

LegacyUser

In need of some guidance wrote: »

.

My parents were totally gobsmacked. They did not know what to say...they were in complete shock. Even my older brother was shocked that I had said it. I always said that i would not. Now I feel like a complete and utter asshole/dickhead/(insert insulting and derogatory phrase here).

I talked to them separately and they feel so disappointed in me, themselves and I feel so rotten for telling them. They feel like they have failed as parents and so do I as a person in terms of telling them. I am so down at this point in my life. I really want them to accept what I have said. I have lived a very successful life, a life most would give their right arm for. My heart was aching when I saw the disappointment in my father and mothers eyes. They have done a fantastic job of raising me to be the man I am today and I am living a good life, I just feel so rotten that I have let them down so much - but I can't help what I believe or don't believe.
Cheers,
H.

Well done for voicing what you believe, others go through life still pretending to go to mass every Sunday so as not to offend their folks - how childish is that?

We're such a silly nation like that.

You can't live to please your parents otherwise you won't be happy and true to yourself.

If more people were as honest as you the country could start growing up.

LegacyUser

It's the OP here. My thanks to you all for taking the time to reply.

@Beruthiel, Taltos, dan_d, fatmammycat, krudler, The Corinthian, bleeeelbabab:
Yes, I've never felt the need either - it was just a moment that came about and I thought this would be the right opportunity. I never did think I would tell them. It felt like the right time, like if I did - it would be somewhat okay and accepted.

I definitely do not want to convert anyone. It was a conversation about belief. While I have my opinions, others have theirs - and who the hell am I to try and convert anyone. I started my journey of "examining the evidence" after being pressured into subscribing to some other people's beliefs. My view is, that on the whole, religion can be a good thing for certain people. It can be a useful coping device and can indeed help people through tough times. Some people do not have a desire to think beyond what they were indoctrinated with as it is completely outside of their comfort zone. I am not out to rubbish anybody's beliefs. I respect the fact that many individuals are happy with the boundaries they have set early on in their lives and do not want to venture outside of these.

@Bloody Nipples:
I understand precisely and I agree. Indeed, it was hard to deal with when his reaction was evident. I guess its a product of being raised in a seriously catholic environment - not his fault really. He used to tell me that priests and bishops actively encouraged people "not to think" about anything but penance/purgatory so as to "concentrate on saving the holy souls"! I guess when shock takes over, people revert to default settings i.e. the Irish Catholic way. In retrospect, I should have expected it.

@dolphin city, MRBEAVER:
I expressed my viewpoints in the context of a conversation I was enjoying and felt the timing to be apt. I realise that my judgment could have been a lot better, however - it felt the right thing to do. My intention was and is never to upset my parents. I love them and would take a bullet for either of them, as any normal child would! However, I respect them enough to want to be honest with them and have an honest relationship with them as "bleeeelbabab" and "krudler" have said.


In general:
I did not do this to spite them or out of rebellion - or some twisted notion that I was getting back at them for making me go to mass!

I'm a pretty benign guy, as older parents and with a big generational gap - my parents have done a wonderful job raising me and I owe everything I have achieved in my life to how they have raised me and steered me though my life to date. I have been very successful in all of my endeavors and this is due to the upbringing they gave me. I never wanted for anything.

Part of me regrets this, but I feel almost "liberated" as a result. I no longer have to feel like I'm just going along with things. I will still engage in tradition with them, but I can enjoy church related activities (such as at Easter and at Christmas etc) as a tradition and nothing else. So I think while it is painful in the short term, I'm hoping they will accept me as they see that nothing has actually changed. Twenty years ago, my apostasy would have split the family, no doubt. Thank goodness its 2010.

My plan is not to discuss things unless asked to and to use extreme discretion in doing so if I have to. I would still appreciate any further views on this from anyone else.

Thanks again,
H

LegacyUser

I was in a similar situation to you OP. Though in my case it was 12 years ago when I was 15. (My parents had me in their mid 40s, so do the math!) The reason for telling them was mainly rebellion, though I did not think so at the time; I loathed going to mass and all of the rigmarole and dogma associated with catholicism. I told my father I was not going to go to mass anymore, I considered myself a christian, but that I abhored Catholicism and the institutionalised church. I used to read the bible every day at this age and read widely on all sorts of stuff. I even told him I wanted to convert to Presbyterianism, I said that I felt more inclined to their way of thinking! Needless to say this shocked him completely and he even hit me on the occassion. If my mother hadn't been there he would have kept hitting me. He even took my King James away from me. I thought his reaction was incredibly petulant and pathetic, though I didn't actually approach a presbyterian church, I was mighty tempted.

In retrospect this sounds really stupid as I'm an agnostic now but always had a soft spot for christianity. Over time they came to accept it but me and my dad have a strained relationship to this day. I don't understand how parents could be so disappointed in their children for them having independent thoughts on such things. It really pisses me off. They should love us for what we are, not some bullshít front we put up to society. I'm still convinced that the only reason my dad cared was because he was worried about what the extended family and neighbours would think.

In short, OP, you have to fly free from the nest. Patronising your parents serves them no good in the long run. There is nothing worse than a hypocrite - something I said to my father after he hit me for giving my confession.

leggo

Funny story to lighten the mood.

I had a similar conversation with my devoutly Catholic grandparents a few years ago (my granny does ministerial duties for the local church). This would have hurt them as mass was not only a religious exercise but a bonding one between us. The priest coming over for tea put paid to any plans any of the family had previously. I used to also be in the local choir and they beamed with pride.

So, don't ask me why, but I decided to tell them...assuming that they'd be cool with it. Grandad has poor hearing so he didn't seem to understand. But as for the granny...well her face looked as if she had just swallowed a lemon whole. She paused for a second, then in a low, infuriated, almost threatening tone said, "You were born a Roman Catholic. And you will DIE a Roman Catholic."

Years on and it's never been an issue. We're still as close as ever and they still beam with pride over me, as I do them. In fact, there has been several instances where they've surprised me with their support: such as taking my side when the priest came over during a visit and interrupting him to say, "It's actually (my) birthday and we're celebrating with him" when he tried to run the show, or giving out to my parents for telling me not to sit with them during my sister's communion because I refused to pray (they were trying to avoid offending the grandparents, ironically). It's just a funny story at this stage.

Hopefully my experience should tell you that, even though it can be a shock, when you love someone as much as a child/grandchild, these kind of differences can easily be put aside without harming a relationship in the slightest. No matter how old and set in their ways the people involved are.

I don't think you did the wrong thing. Your assumption that they'd understand was fair, given the circumstances. Your need to have your parents know and accept you for who you really are is only natural and something that 95% of people on the planet share. It's a shock to them, no doubt, but I'm sure they'll come to terms with it in no time and things will go back to normal.

niceoneted

OP I haven't taken the time to read the responses to your posts by others but read yours.
My parents are also in their 70's, we were brought up to go to mass and say our prayers etc
At present there is not one member of my family that attend mass and that includes my parents. My mother stopped along time ago only going at the likes of Easter Christmas with my dad who continued to go.
My mother has investigated alternative religious one being Buddhism, she would be quite spiritual.
Dad would have been very religious. I used to give him a hard time. I remember one christmas being home and my mother saying " ah will you not go to mass and please your father, don't disappoint him". My response was that I was disappointed that he didn't understand and listen as to my reasoning as to why I didn't go. The subject was never raised agin.
Now my father has stopped going to mass. While he says he was never subjected to abuse by the church he is appalled by the behaviour of the response of the church so won't go.

I suppose I am lucky in the sense that while our parents are of the same vintage, in relation to the church mine have moved on.

I think the important thing is to look at the language you use in explaining your points. Manipulative style will work best or that that makes the other party feel guilt - that is what they are thought in the church from where I am standing.

Stick with your beliefs, your parents will come around.

LegacyUser

Your parents have been around a long time and based their lives on their religion. When you said you didn't believe in God it was a huge challenge to them - a) that the son they love thinks their whole life was based on a charade b) that he has totally lost what is very precious and c) that maybe he's right.

Their hearts automatically fight back because they want you in the warmth of truth, of God and of community, and they want you to be proud of them (and not think they're silly etc). Also there is the fear in the back of their minds, even if well kept down, that you could be right and then where are they? So they're angry - you've rejected their beliefs and their whole way of life. It feels like you've rejected them. So they're also very hurt. And very sad.

That's not to say that you've done anything wrong. People can do very well on challenge! Being seventy-odd isn't that old anymore. Isn't it great that they're starting to see you as you are? They should know who you are, and know who this person is that they love and that loves them. Just give them time.

How do you feel you've let them down? By not believing - which wasn't a choice, or by telling them - which was a way of not deceiving them? Don't think they haven't heard of non-believers before. And don't do them the injustice of thinking that they've believed blindly all their years - there will have been many times when they doubted. So they know that you may go back to religion again - it's only been a year after all. They know life goes on and life changes cos it happened to them. It's not the end of the world!

You never know - they might spend lots of time praying for you or they may feel a bit better about their own unbeliefs.

You didn't let them down at all. You thought long and hard about this, and faced it honestly. If they could, they'd be proud for the way you approached and dealt with it.

All you did was upset the apple cart.

And in families, that's normal. :-)

CDfm

OP -I do not talk to my parents because mentioning any belief in God (and I have a belief of sorts ) leads to rosary beads and the like.

Now my 20 year old atheist son keeps schtum about his atheism around grandma.

I used to visit the atheist forum a bit as I have a bit of an interest in philosophy and ethics etc. Some of the debates are good but others drove me up the wall but all in all they are a nice bunch.

Now I agree with those who said you should not have said anything and little white lies that dont hurt anyone are ok in my book.

dolphin city

dolphin city wrote: »

why did you feel the need to tell them. Yu didn't have to come out and blurt it out. Especially as they are elderly. I'm sure you don't blurt out other things about your life to them so why that.

you should have used a bit more common sense and caring towards them.

What? Are you serious? A child should be afraid to be honest with his parents, and it's his fault that they are so brainwashed that they can't just accept and love him for who he is? What a twisted view of the world. If the OP's parents really care, they should accept that he doesn't believe in a god and leave it at that. In no way is it the OP's fault.

I actually cannot believe how so many people think the OP should have kept their mouth shut; the willingness to protect elderly people's silly fantasies, especially from their own children, is absolutely astonishing.

When I told my mam I was an atheist, she said she was disappointed but that she wouldn't hold it against me, and she hasn't. Nor did she hold it against me when I officially defected from the Catholic Church. This is exactly how a truly caring parent should react to their child coming out as an apostate.

CDfm

Deleted User wrote: »

What? Are you serious? A child should be afraid to be honest with his parents, and it's his fault that they are so brainwashed that they can't just accept and love him for who he is? What a twisted view of the world. If the OP's parents really care, they should accept that he doesn't believe in a god and leave it at that. In no way is it the OP's fault.

For some reason children also don't tell their parents about loosing their virginity,drug use, arrests, getting fired or disciplinary procedures at work, overdrafts/credit card probs etc.

Confession is good for the soul but bad for the reputation.

moco

I don’t really believe in god either, I used to hate going to mass and only did it because my mother dragged me. As a child I used to tell her there was no point in me going as I wasn’t listening to a word that was said and ‘god’ wouldn’t want me there against my will anyway lol.

A few years ago I said to her that I don’t believe in a catholic god and she then said that she didn’t any more either, but kept us going to mass etc. as she didn’t want to destroy any faith that we might have as her mother was very religious and she hoped we can have the same faith.

So it can go both ways, your parents just reacted badly but you weren’t to know.


I think it's a good idea from the poster who suggested that you say you're unsure about your beliefs might give your parents hope that you'll come round and keep them happy.

panda100

Deleted User wrote: »

When I told my mam I was an atheist, she said she was disappointed but that she wouldn't hold it against me, and she hasn't. Nor did she hold it against me when I officially defected from the Catholic Church. This is exactly how a truly caring parent should react to their child coming out as an apostate.

In an ideal world that is of course how parents should react but religion really does do crazy things to some people!

OP, I can completly understand why you told your parents about your atheism. Religion was a big part of your life and who you were and now you no longer hold those beliefs. Being an atheist has become a part of who you are and its nice showing who you really are to your parents.

I was in exactly the same boat as you, as someone who was a devout Catholic but through reason,debate and personal reflection over a number of yeasr came to atheist conclusions. Realising there is no God and not having to conform to Catholic guidelines has been an enormous relief and comfort in my life over the last few years. Like you, my atheism just popped out one day in conversation and my parents reaction still distresses me greatly to this day, and it was over a year ago now. My fathers reaction was quite physical and extremely emotional basically saying that I wasn't welcome in his house with those 'beliefs'. Things have died down now but I've learned my lesson to just hold my tounge and just agree and go along with their religious beliefs. If this means going to mass when Im at home, then I do so.

Its unfortunate that our parents fragile religious indoctrinaction means they cannot handle our unbelief,but its something you'll just have to get used off.

I think the best thing to do is not to bring the matter up anymore. Its very unlikely they will broach the subject with you. When religion matters are brought up from now on either just hold your tunge or just agree. At the end of the day your relationship with your parents is much more importnat than your atheism.

prinz

It's pretty sad that even a thread like this cannot run it's course without things like 'indoctrination', 'brainwashing' ' sky fairies' etc getting thrown around. Says more about the people using them than those they are aimed at tbh.:rolleyes:

OP your parents sound fairly deeply religious. They believe what they believe so any discussion of how or why they believe it (as above) is counterproductive rubbish. Parents by and large want whats best for their kids, and in their opinion regarding you that involves God. It will upset and disturb them. Of course it will, that's only natural, and any deeply religious parent who is 'fine' with their children moving away from that is covering up their true thoughts IMO. They may not take it out on the child but I'd say they are praying for the child to rediscover religion/God. Over time it will not be such a shock for them. There is no need to keep it current in your discussions with them. They shouldn't 'hold it against you' but you cannot expect them to be overjoyed with the idea either. They will come to terms with it.

Also remember it works the other way - a child telling atheist parents of new found faith

Overheal

When religion matters are brought up from now on either just hold your tongue or just agree. At the end of the day your relationship with your parents is much more important than your atheism.

And precisely what is a relationship with your parents if you can't be yourself around them?

Also remember it works the other way - a child telling atheist parents of new found faith

Well of the few people I know well, 2 of them are parents to 1 and they're both Atheists. They both agree that Jack will be more than able to explore that option when he is old enough to make the decision for himself, whether it be Mosque, Synagogue, Church or Italian Bistro. Sauce be upon him.

CDfm

Overheal wrote: »

And precisely what is a relationship with your parents if you can't be yourself around them?

I look at it a bit differently and you would not tell someone something that would cause them unnesscessary hurt or indeed cause yourself unnesscessary hassle.

And this is the part the OP feels he/she misjudged and caused hurt.

prinz

Overheal wrote: »

And precisely what is a relationship with your parents if you can't be yourself around them?

Being yourself =/= repeatedly bringing up a divisive topic unneccessarily. My parents and I disgree on some things. They know where I stand, I know where they stand, hurray we can all be ourselves and we have a great relationship. I can be myself around my parents, it does not mean that I/they have to constantly harp on about something we disagree on. Too many people confuse being yourself with being on a soapbox.

<SNIP>

panda100

Overheal wrote: »

And precisely what is a relationship with your parents if you can't be yourself around them?

I completly and utterly agree,I know when I have children that I will actively encourage them to be themselves, whatever their views and opinions.

But when it comes to religion and this older Irish generation its a completly different kettle of fish.

The OP has tried being himself with his parents and it failed miserably. They do not want to know about his lack of belief,it frightens them as its something they probably haven't even questioned in their own heads. A big part of being a good RC is not raising your children to be free thinkers but raising them as Catholics. It must have been a huge blow to the op's parents to have failed at something that is fundamental to Catholicism. Best thing op can do now is just go along with the Catholic charade when he's at home or meets his parents.

Overheal

prinz wrote: »

Being yourself =/= repeatedly bringing up a divisive topic unneccessarily. My parents and I disgree on some things. They know where I stand, I know where they stand, hurray we can all be ourselves and we have a great relationship. I can be myself around my parents, it does not mean that I/they have to constantly harp on about something we disagree on. Too many people confuse being yourself with being on a soapbox.

I differentiate between militantly harping on about it at every opportunity and discussing it when appropriate, but the advice was essentially to pretend like you're not an Atheist if the subject arises naturally.

princeofparma

The best thing to do is say nothing. Don't even bring up the subject ever again.
Go to Christmas mass, Easter mass, funerals, weddings, christenings and just go through the motions. They obviously are upset and gobsmacked so why bother upsetting them in future? They seem set in their ways and unlikely to change now.
You don't believe in God.
You know that religion is codology.
What difference does it make if you pretend to just to keep your relations happy?
It hurts nobody.
Best of luck.

Overheal

panda100 wrote: »

I completly and utterly agree,I know when I have children that I will actively encourage them to be themselves, whatever their views and opinions.

But when it comes to religion and this older Irish generation its a completly different kettle of fish.

The OP has tried being himself with his parents and it failed miserably. They do not want to know about his lack of belief,it frightens them as its something they probably haven't even questioned in their own heads. A big part of being a good RC is not raising your children to be free thinkers but raising them as Catholics. It must have been a huge blow to the op's parents to have failed at something that is fundamental to Catholicism. Best thing op can do now is just go along with the Catholic charade when he's at home or meets his parents.

And that saddens me, but if you have to be torn between your love for your parents and their love for you, I can see why it makes sense to respect their beliefs insofar as to still celebrate religious holidays, etc.

In my mind Easter and Christmas are a family tradition and in Ireland, Lent seems to have taken on a life of it's own as people seem to fast/abstain from things their used to as a social norm. We all did it, even those of us whom were atheist or not particularly religious. I guess @OP it depends on how you want to view it. Nobody ever forced me to take Communion or Confession when I was in a church, I just sat and watched politely.

CDfm

Who does it hurt by saying nothing, Overheal, nobody. And, who and how does it benefit anyone ?.

Overheal

CDfm wrote: »

Who does it hurt by saying nothing, Overheal, nobody. And, who and how does it benefit anyone ?.

Isn't that also the attitude towards Gays? Just stay in the closet so you don't upset anybody else? Right.

I would think it actually hurts the person who is asked to pretend they're someone else when they're around others.

CDfm

Overheal wrote: »

Isn't that also the attitude towards Gays? Just stay in the closet so you don't upset anybody else? Right.

I would think it actually hurts the person who is asked to pretend they're someone else when they're around others.

No it isn't and it is a different discussion.

I have kids and if either were gay I would be fine with it - not over the moon but ok. An ex-schoolfriend of my sons is gay and he has been to parties with his friend at my house.

The discussion here is to do with informing an elderly parent of your atheism when they have a devout belief. Remember, beliefs are abstract and it is very different to orientation.

I think you have tried to avoid the issue here by comparing apples with oranges.

The OP here may feel strongly about it and whether not telling them compromised their(the OP,s) integrity or whether telling them unduly hurt the parent. Its an ethical issue so it is a grey area.

Overheal

The discussion here is to do with informing an elderly parent of your atheism when they have a devout belief. Remember, beliefs are abstract and it is very different to orientation.

You think Roman Catholics would have less of a problem with Homosexuality than Atheism

Either way, you're still advising someone to live a lie for the benefit of others. Advice which I diametrically oppose.

CDfm

Overheal wrote: »

You think Roman Catholics would have less of a problem with Homosexuality than Atheism

thats a bit OT and I can only speak for me.

Either way, you're still advising someone to live a lie for the benefit of others. Advice which I diametrically oppose.

No I asked them to take an ethical consideration into account.

I also include drug use, affairs, arrests, loss of virginity, failure to get promotion, how you vote and a whole host of things that people dont tell their parents.

Whats so special about atheism.

Overheal

I also include drug use, affairs, arrests, loss of virginity, failure to get promotion, how you vote and a whole host of things that people dont tell their parents.

Whats so special about atheism.

Things I've discussed with my parents

Religion is pretty integral to each person. More than hobbies, your favorite contestant on Pop Idol, how much the price of petrol has gone up, etc.

I think we've both made out separate points though.

HavingCrack

This is turning into a debate more suited to Humanities rather than helping the OP.

Ickle Magoo

Please keep replies on topic and helpful to the OP.
Be aware that off-topic and unhelpful posting can earn you a ban from this forum.
If you have a problem with a post please report it rather than commenting on thread and dragging things further off-topic.

Many thanks.

Ickle

CDfm

Overheal wrote: »

Things I've discussed with my parents

Religion is pretty integral to each person. More than hobbies, your favorite contestant on Pop Idol, how much the price of petrol has gone up, etc.

So you leave your sex life out.

LOL I would too. Though I think my Dad twigged on to Sharon who we met at the shoe shop a few years back. It was something about how she sat on my knee trying on a pair of boots.

But you get what I am saying that there are boundaries and ommisions we make that are prudent. Each family is different and has their own sensitivities and even though my mum loves my children I think she would be equally delighted if I were Pope. :pac:

So for the OP -there is no wrong or right answer - but just be a bit more circumspect on what you say rather than hurt your parents.

Ickle Magoo

In fairness, CDfm, omissions are one thing - pretending to be something you are not and having to actually go through the motions, including having to lie about it is no basis for a healthy relationship.

OP,

If given time to come to terms with things, most parents can live with the various announcements their offspring throw at them. Perhaps give your parents some space and let them know you are there if they have any questions. In my experience most of the recoiling in horror from someone who identifies as an atheist is because they don't know any. Try to understand from their perspective that they consider you rejecting something that is fundamental to the way they live their life which must be a real kick in the teeth - and they may also worry as a non-believer that they won't see you in heaven or bad things will happen to you.

I don't agree that people should have to lie and masquerade their way through life just to protect the sensibilities of others over something as innocuous as faith or sexuality - I imagine it's all just a bit of a shock to your parents that someone is bucking the trend - and worried about what that means.

Best of luck.

panda100

Overheal wrote: »

Isn't that also the attitude towards Gays? Just stay in the closet so you don't upset anybody else? Right.

I would think it actually hurts the person who is asked to pretend they're someone else when they're around others.

+1

The charade of pretending not to be an atheist will be difficult on the op.
It hurts me that my parents don't want to know the real me, my real beliefs and outlooks on life. I find it difficult to bite my tounge and not say anything when my family show no tolerance for those to my views. My family are petty much a la carte Catholics and their hypocrisy sometimes drives me mental when Im at home. Just like the op's parents saying its great that people have differnt faiths and beliefs but not actually liking it when its their own son.


OP.just wondering do you go to mass when your at home or did your parents know that you no longer attend mass?

CDfm

My son is an atheist and I am not. My daughter takes her religion seriously.

Anyway, my parents are elderly and traditional catholics for them happiness and well being is wrapped up in belief. Its even how some people deal with life and tackle illness and death.

So if it makes my elderly mother happy- why not have the occassional a la carte catholicism.

Ickle Magoo

Whether he just wants to play along is entirely up to the OP, though I suspect if that were the case he wouldn't have said anything in the first place.

I'm not sure it's so much a case of "why not" and more a "why"?. Why should an adult have to sneak around or lie or go against their own beliefs/lack there of and yet be expected to unquestioningly respect someone else's? What about christenings or weddings - should the OP just go along with them too? At what point can an adult point out to their parents that it's their own life to live as they see fit now, thanks for your input/concern, I'll take it from here?

It's a tricky one OP - I still think you should acknowledge your own beliefs or lack of and give your family time to come to terms with that.

CDfm

It is tricky - maybe its because with age things have become simpler for me.

I would think its way down the list of priorities on discussions I would have with my parents. The weather is more important. For my mother school and college results are up there.

Ickle Magoo

CDfm wrote: »

It is tricky - maybe its because with age things have become simpler for me.

I would think its way down the list of priorities on discussions I would have with my parents. The weather is more important. For my mother school and college results are up there.

You discuss school and college results with your mother because with age things have become simpler? I'm not sure I'm following. I have no idea what your faith is CDfm, you only mentioned your children's but I know that as a young person who doesn't want to be religious or have religious weddings or christenings or whatever, it's an important distinction to draw with parents/relatives/friends in general that you are an adult and get to decide your own faith/politics/etc.

I'm not suggesting the OP need make a song and dance but this whole charade to keep parents happy in their beliefs at the expense of his own seems a ridiculous situation for an adult to have to be in - especially given the issues that can and certainly do arise further down the road. The OP may be better off having drawn a line in the sand and not mentioning it again unless he has to but I think it's important that the OP understand this is not his issue - I don't agree with making someone feel that someone elses happiness depends on them lying about who or what they are, especially when it comes to something as deeply personal as faith - though I imagine his parents are just very much a product of their generation.

CDfm

What I am saying is that peoples priorities are different and my mother would be more interested in her grandchildrens results than their religious beliefs per se.

Older people are interested in weather as it affects them more and a younger person is more interested in concepts like integrity while an old person has mobility and health to occupy them.

So I am suggesting that it is a topic best avoided.

As for me - loosely the term a la carte catholic does me as a description.

Ickle Magoo

Which is fine if you want to be an a la carte catholic...but the OP is an atheist and clearly wishes his family accepted him as such, or I'm sure he'd just have merrily kept playing along as he had been. I agree the topic should be avoided in general conversation but at the same time, I don't think the OP should have to pretend and lie to his family either and now the cat is out the bag, so to speak, perhaps drawing a line in the sand and setting expectations will make life easier in the long run?

I don't think it's fair to suggest only young people are interested in integrity either, btw - or that it's just a concept. Plenty of octogenarians would set you right on that.

CDfm

Ickle you make being a la carte sound like a bad thing

I am only going by my experience. In an ideal world people would be accepted for what they are and I do that in my own family and my daughter attends a church she choose herself and I respect that as her gig and I am equally comfortable with my sons atheism .

I handle it my own way in my own family unit and I am tolerant of others.

In families the ties that bind are different and I certainly would not expect my mother who grew up in a village in the west of Ireland to look at things the same way I do but I would extend my tolerance to include her.

nozzferrahhtoo

OP – I would start by asking your parents what exactly they think is changed now that they have this information. You said they raised you to be “successful“ with a „good life“ and “the man I am today”. What is now changed there?

It seems to me the problem lies entirely with them, not with you. You did nothing wrong except be honest with the 2 people in your life we should be capable of being most honest with. It is THEM that needs to work through this issue with YOUR help, not YOU needing to work through it with OURS.

Our society has long been one where it has been indoctrinated into us that saying what you said is somehow “taboo”. As if expressing deeply held political opinions contrary to your parents is somehow ok, but expressing philosophical ones are not.

Communication is a good thing. Always has been and always will be. It is the most useful tool we have in this life for mutual understanding and acceptance. Be suspicious of everyone, including the religious, who make any attempts to stifle communication and honesty.

It shows a lot of respect for your parents that you don’t wrap them in cotton wool and treat them as old and infirm and delicate. Old people are not delicate china pieces best left where they are in case they break, nor have I met any that wish to be treated with such indignity. They are intelligent, wise, long lived people and deserve to be treated as such. They are more than capable of dealing with what life throws at them, often better than we are as they have seen it all.

I commend your honesty with them and for treating them as loved equals in your life and not as delicate invalids. It is not up to them, not you, as to what they do with this new information.

Be yourself, mistakes and all. Better your parents know who you are, than love you for someone you are not.

eyescreamcone

I find that Catholics become very offended when I say that I am an atheist, (if it comes up in conversation) and rush to change the subject as I try to explain my reasoning.
I don't understand this as I would be willing to listen to anyone else's point of view.
Catholics want to brush different viewpoints under the carpet.
They want everybody to go to Catholic schools, be baptised married etc all under the wings of mother church.
Why can't people be allowed different opinions in this country?

If your parents are 100, they are still adults and should be treated as such.
If an adult (eg. a parent) takes offence because he disagrees with you on an unproveable point, then that's just crazy.

There is no need to be blunt or personal but no apologies should ever be made for what you believe in or do not believe in.
And certainly you should never bow down to Catholic convention (as the majority of this country tend to do).
I have much more respect for the devout Catholics than the a la carte/hypocritical type.

CDfm

CDfm wrote: »

The discussion here is to do with informing an elderly parent of your atheism when they have a devout belief.

So what if they have devout belief? What if the OP was a Fine Gael voter and came out to his parents who were Fianna Fáil? Should they be criticised for that? There is no justification for not admitting to having a different religious belief (or lack thereof) to your parents, besides 'ah would you just leave them and their religion alone; you're just trying to make them sad so you are'. And I must say, the notion of going to mass and pretending to be a Catholic just to appease your elderly parents is completely off the wall. If parents are incapable of understanding that their children go grow up to become adults - who are in no way naturally inferior to themselves, with their own opinions, beliefs and lifestyle - that's really their own tough sh!te.

'Cut the cord' seems apt right about now. Living under the influence of your parents after you've reached adulthood is unhealthy.