Pharmacists call for 'morning-after pill' to be available over the counter

Don Keypunch

http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/ireland/pharmacists-call-for-morning-after-pill-to-be-available-over-the-counter-471456.html

Pharmacists call for 'morning-after pill' to be available over the counter

MagicMarker

I think it's a good idea. But there should be some kind of monitoring system in place so it can't be abused. It's pretty ridiculous that you have to pay 60 quid just to see someone for 2 minutes to give you a prescription!

bleg

MagicMarker wrote: »

I think it's a good idea. But there should be some kind of monitoring system in place so it can't be abused.

There's no monitoring system at the moment...

MagicMarker

bleg wrote: »

There's no monitoring system at the moment...

Thank you for pointing that out. I don't believe I said there was?

kjl

bleg wrote: »

There's no monitoring system at the moment...

And what do you call a prescription?

Earthhorse

MagicMarker wrote: »

I think it's a good idea. But there should be some kind of monitoring system in place so it can't be abused.

How could it be abused?

bleg

Just pointing it out.

Micky Dolenz

Earthhorse wrote: »

How could it be abused?

Some people may use it as contraception.

MagicMarker

Earthhorse wrote: »

How could it be abused?

By abused, I mean some people may think it's an acceptable form of contraception on a regular basis.

Isn't it recommend not to take the MAP more than a few times a year?

dr.bollocko

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Some people may use it as contraception.

Why are there always stupid fucks ruining it for everyone else who might actually need such a service? Though at the same time one might say that the people who would abuse such a system are the problem, as opposed to the pill itself.

Micky Dolenz

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Why are there always stupid fucks ruining it for everyone else who might actually need such a service? Though at the same time one might say that the people who would abuse such a system are the problem, as opposed to the pill itself.

Would you like some codeine with that dr :P

E.T.

I'm hoping that it's in relation to the problem in Kerry (could be other places too, just Kerry's mentioned in this article) where a doctor refused to prescribe the morning after pill on religious grounds. Saw the article the other day, couldn't believe that could still happen here now.
http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/woman-denied-pill-on-religious-basis-129181.html

alwaysadub

I can't see the link cos i'm on the mobile, but i think there should be a better system than what's in place now for getting it, but it shouldn't be a system that could be abused.

starbelgrade

E.T. wrote: »

I'm hoping that it's in relation to the problem in Kerry (could be other places too, just Kerry's mentioned in this article) where a doctor refused to prescribe the morning after pill on religious grounds. Saw the article the other day, couldn't believe that could still happen here now.
http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/woman-denied-pill-on-religious-basis-129181.html

The call today was as a result of that, though I think pharmacists have been looking for it for a while now.

I think it's a good idea, but I really doubt that the pharmacists really have anybody's interests but their own in mind.

Biggins

alwaysadub wrote: »

I can't see the link cos i'm on the mobile, but i think there should be a better system than what's in place now for getting it, but it shouldn't be a system that could be abused.

Pharmacists call for 'morning-after pill' to be available over the counter
Monday, August 30, 2010 - 05:06 PM

Pharmacists are renewing calls for the 'morning-after pill' to be available over the counter.
At present, women who wish to take emergency hormonal contraception require a prescription from a doctor.
The Irish Pharmacy Union (IPU) said its members have the skills to dispense such drugs and provide appropriate advice and counselling to patients.

"It is important that patients get timely access to emergency hormonal contraception and many often find it difficult to get a prescription at the weekend," said spokesperson Kathy Maher, a pharmacist in Co Meath.
"Pharmacists should be able to provide such a service and this could be done with appropriate advice, counselling and within agreed protocols."
Ms Maher emphasised that the morning-after pill "should never be the only form of contraception used" and said pharmacists could also refer patients back to their GP where appropriate.

Hope that helps.

Mrmoe

E.T. wrote: »

I'm hoping that it's in relation to the problem in Kerry (could be other places too, just Kerry's mentioned in this article) where a doctor refused to prescribe the morning after pill on religious grounds. Saw the article the other day, couldn't believe that could still happen here now.
http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/woman-denied-pill-on-religious-basis-129181.html

That doctor should be investigated and disciplinary action should be taken.


The morning after pill should be made available over the counter. Pharmacists are adequately trained to provide this. People can abuse it by using it too many times but they can also do this currently by visiting different doctors and pharmacies.

Little My

The thing is, while we don't want it to be 'abused', or used as repeatedly as contraception rather than just in emergencies... can doctors or chemists refuse to provide it?

Obviously they can advise better contraception etc, but can they really say no, too bad if your pregnant now but I'm not giving the morning after pill to you again.

Micky Dolenz

Little My wrote: »

The thing is, while we don't want it to be 'abused', or used as repeatedly as contraception rather than just in emergencies... can doctors or chemists refuse to provide it?

Obviously they can advise better contraception etc, but can they really say no, too bad if your pregnant now but I'm not giving the morning after pill to you again.

If they fear that it may risk your health they would be obliged to refuse.

Taelated

Can pharmacists administer it under any circumstances now unless the doc says so?

Blobby George

I applaud this intelligent and timely move. Docs have been greasing their palms for too long.

alwaysadub

E.T. wrote: »

I'm hoping that it's in relation to the problem in Kerry (could be other places too, just Kerry's mentioned in this article) where a doctor refused to prescribe the morning after pill on religious grounds. Saw the article the other day, couldn't believe that could still happen here now.
http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/woman-denied-pill-on-religious-basis-129181.html

I rang my doctors one morning looking for a quick appointment, and was told if i was going to ask for the morning after pill, i'd have to wait till the next day for the other doctor, as the one on call that morning didn't prescribe it as it was against her religion. I wasn't looking for it, so while i was a bit shocked, i forgot about it. But you should be able to go to a doctor and not worry that they won't prescribe something cos they don't agree with it.
Anyway think there's already a thread on that, so won't go on bout it here.

Ickle Magoo

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

If they fear that it may risk your health they would be obliged to refuse.

Or if they are religious and don't agree with the concept... :eek:

Micky Dolenz

alwaysadub wrote: »

I rang my doctors one morning looking for a quick appointment, and was told if i was going to ask for the morning after pill, i'd have to wait till the next day for the other doctor, as the one on call that morning didn't prescribe it as it was against her religion. I wasn't looking for it, so while i was a bit shocked, i forgot about it. But you should be able to go to a doctor and not worry that they won't prescribe something cos they don't agree with it.
Anyway think there's already a thread on that, so won't go on bout it here.

What a crook, what about a doctor who is a jehovah witness, would they refuse to give blood to a patient?

I would be making waves with that practice.

Chicken Run

it's available over-the-counter in the UK, has been for a few years now.
Criteria was a quick face-to-face chat with the pharmacist explaining how to take it, risks, contra-indication and what to expect. Pretty simple.
Yes - open to abuse in that people could tour round different pharmacies and get one every month if they so desired, but in some pharmacies that I worked in they had a page in the controlled drugs book and logged sales so that people getting it regularly could be noticed...

It's workable...

bronte

They shouldn't be in the profession if they're going to refuse someone the MAP.
If you can't do your job, get one that fits in with your belief structure.
Why should others suffer?


I think it should definitely be available over the counter.
I shudder to think what some girls do in rural towns in an emergancy.

dr.bollocko

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

What a crook, what about a doctor who is a jehovah witness, would they refuse to give blood to a patient?

I would be making waves with that practice.

But then at the same time while I totally disagree with it should the doctor be forced to overrule their own personal moral code to practice? If there were a system in place whereby people could know where they could get an MAP prescription be it weekday or weekend then maybe that system could be opt in so that those doctors who didn't want to prescribe it could avoid being asked. A good chunk of the problem comes down to the simple lack of non-biased information available to the people who need it most, when they need it most.

alwaysadub

Biggins wrote: »

Hope that helps.

Thanks Biggins. It does indeed

Ickle Magoo

According to the Irish Examiner, it happens tho....

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/health/woman-denied-pill-on-religious-basis-129181.html

SeaFields

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

According to the Irish Examiner, it happens tho....

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/health/woman-denied-pill-on-religious-basis-129181.html

That doctor should be struck off. what a nutter. :rolleyes:

BKtje

it's available over-the-counter in the UK, has been for a few years now.
Criteria was a quick face-to-face chat with the pharmacist explaining how to take it, risks, contra-indication and what to expect. Pretty simple.

Same deal in switzerland.

mojesius

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

According to the Irish Examiner, it happens tho....

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/health/woman-denied-pill-on-religious-basis-129181.html

About time this came in. This article proves it. A doctor's religious/personal views should never impact upon their professional ethics.

I'll never forget the time I went to a local female gp for the morning after pill and she gave me a lecture on my morals before flinging the prescription at me. If I was a few years older than at the time, I would have told her to shove it and reported her. I found out a while later that she was involved with a married, family man. And I was the one who 'really needed to look at myself'.

Micky Dolenz

dr.bollocko wrote: »

But then at the same time while I totally disagree with it should the doctor be forced to overrule their own personal moral code to practice? If there were a system in place whereby people could know where they could get an MAP prescription be it weekday or weekend then maybe that system could be opt in so that those doctors who didn't want to prescribe it could avoid being asked. A good chunk of the problem comes down to the simple lack of non-biased information available to the people who need it most, when they need it most.

Don't doctors take an oath to do the best for their patients and put their medical needs first. Religion and medicine should never be mixed.

bowsie010

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

According to the Irish Examiner, it happens tho....

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/health/woman-denied-pill-on-religious-basis-129181.html

What aloada shiite.I wouldn't become a butcher if i was against handling meat.

dr.bollocko

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Don't doctors take an oath to do the best for their patients and put their medical first. Religion and medicine should never be mixed.

Again I agree in principle. Particularly with the separation from religion and any form of important civic duty. I would be a pretty rabid atheist myself. However one could hardly say that a doctor refusing to give a prescription for MAP is not providing for his patient in terms of an oath. The patient is not likely to die as a result of a doctor's refusal. Indeed he could even view the potential foetus as a patient and to say that the morning after pill is treating a patient with an illness is to equate pregnancy with an STI which is a bit of a minefield.
It would upset me that somebody who needs help gets turned away on religious grounds. But it wouldn't surprise me and I know the arguments as to why they would refuse to help. And anyone who is in the position of being able to prescribe yet refusing to do because of personal beliefs would probably be quite proud of themselves for making that decision.

alwaysadub

dr.bollocko wrote: »

But then at the same time while I totally disagree with it should the doctor be forced to overrule their own personal moral code to practice?

But surely doctors who have these beliefs should realise even before they start studying for their licence they'll come across things in their profession.
What if you were brought in in need of an urgent blood transfusion and the doctor was a Jehovah's Witness or something. I know that's bringing things onto another level altogether, but refusing something that could totally affect a life shouldn't happen.

Earthhorse

dr.bollocko wrote: »

But then at the same time while I totally disagree with it should the doctor be forced to overrule their own personal moral code to practice?

Frankly, yes. I don't agree with abortion but were it to be legalised here I would expect doctors to give impartial access and advice to patients regarding the procedure.

If there were a system in place whereby people could know where they could get an MAP prescription be it weekday or weekend then maybe that system could be opt in so that those doctors who didn't want to prescribe it could avoid being asked.

And if there are no doctors in your area who wish to prescribe it? Medicine can't really work that way, it would end up being discriminatory.

Owwmykneecap

Morning after pills shouldn't even be legal in this country, if the literal life beings at conception schtick is followed.

Anyone know when life "begins" legally here? Conception? Implantation?

Micky Dolenz

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Again I agree in principle. Particularly with the separation from religion and any form of important civic duty. I would be a pretty rabid atheist myself. However one could hardly say that a doctor refusing to give a prescription for MAP is not providing for his patient in terms of an oath. The patient is not likely to die as a result of a doctor's refusal. Indeed he could even view the potential foetus as a patient and to say that the morning after pill is treating a patient with an illness is to equate pregnancy with an STI which is a bit of a minefield.
It would upset me that somebody who needs help gets turned away on religious grounds. But it wouldn't surprise me and I know the arguments as to why they would refuse to help. And anyone who is in the position of being able to prescribe yet refusing to do because of personal beliefs would probably be quite proud of themselves for making that decision.

While you make most interesting points and in a way reinforce my thinking. The Doctor is doing a civic duty, the MFP is a legal treatment in this country. They should administrate it where needed.

I don't know the legal in's and out's of it and to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if they were entitled through employment law to refuse certain things on religious grounds.

However, personally I would let the practice know my displeasure and vote with my feet and hard earned cash.

dr.bollocko

Earthhorse wrote: »

Frankly, yes. I don't agree with abortion but were it to be legalised here I would expect doctors to give impartial access and advice to patients regarding the procedure.



And if there are no doctors in your area who wish to prescribe it? Medicine can't really work that way, it would end up being discriminatory.

Again I totally agree but the reality is it currently is discriminatory. There are bad doctors out there. There are opinionated doctors. There are doctors that hold certain beliefs over all others or believe certain medications are better / worse than they actually are. If you ask a US army doctor why you're unable to sleep after a tour in Iraq or Afghanistan they're gonna say PTSD. They're not going to evaluate you separately to that. There was a rash of tweens and teens diagnosed with ADD and ADHD because it seemed like the most straight forward answer. When you're a hammer the world is made of nails. These people are not trying to be evil or bad or cruel they're just trying to do what they think is the right thing. Often it can be a terribly incredibly horribly wrong bad or dangerous decision to make. If we allow pharmacists to evaluate things like availability of the MAP on merits free from religious argument it would help solve this specific problem. But the general problem still exists if you get my meaning.
</waffle>

Earthhorse

dr.bollocko wrote: »

If we allow pharmacists to evaluate things like availability of the MAP on merits free from religious argument it would help solve this specific problem.

Don't get me wrong, I think it should be available from pharamacies too.

But the general problem still exists if you get my meaning.

Not sure I do. Should pharamacists be forced to go against their own moral code and provide someone with MAP? Yes, if it's legally available in the country.

If you ask a US army doctor why you're unable to sleep after a tour in Iraq or Afghanistan they're gonna say PTSD. They're not going to evaluate you separately to that. There was a rash of tweens and teens diagnosed with ADD and ADHD because it seemed like the most straight forward answer. When you're a hammer the world is made of nails. These people are not trying to be evil or bad or cruel they're just trying to do what they think is the right thing. Often it can be a terribly incredibly horribly wrong bad or dangerous decision to make.

Diagnosis is a lot less straightforward and will always be subject to the mode du jour and exacerbated by an over-worked medical community. Incorrect diagnoses are down to human error rather than any moral issue.

</waffle>

No thanks, I don't eat them anymore.

King Felix

Earthhorse wrote: »

No thanks, I don't eat them anymore.

You should try the blue ones.

bleg

Taelated wrote: »

Can pharmacists administer it under any circumstances now unless the doc says so?

Illegally, yes. I'd be fairly certain it happens as well.

storm2811

I'd support this, does it mean you don't need a prescription though?
In that case why isn't the pill available over the counter?

Prof.Badass

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

Morning after pills shouldn't even be legal in this country, if the literal life beings at conception schtick is followed.

Anyone know when life "begins" legally here? Conception? Implantation?

You seem to confuse us for a country that actually thinks about it's laws rather than just brining in whatever will shut up the most people.

Dionysus

Don Keypunch wrote: »

http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/ireland/pharmacists-call-for-morning-after-pill-to-be-available-over-the-counter-471456.html

Pharmacists call for 'morning-after pill' to be available over the counter

€65 to get the morning after pill from your GP sounds like a conjob in any language. The medical profession is a bit like the legal profession: self regulating with perennial threats of chaos if their views aren't made law.

Remember it was the Irish medical profession which was infamously against the Mother and Child scheme in the 1950s - "socialised medicine" - because it would reduce their income (which they dressed up in moral cloth).

MagicMarker

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

Morning after pills shouldn't even be legal in this country, if the literal life beings at conception schtick is followed.

Anyone know when life "begins" legally here? Conception? Implantation?

Ugh! Please let's not go down that road.

Incognita

I think it is fantastic, finally a step forward for this backward country.
I've only ever had call to use the MAP once, being married with children, had an 'accident' - didn't want any more chilren at the time so had to toddle off with my tail between my legs to my 60 yr old GP, who made me feel like a bold schoolgirl. :mad:

Catholic Ireland has a lot to answer for IMO.

Novella

Tbph, I don't think it's a great idea. From what I've seen amongst my own friends, it would be something that'd be very easily abused, with many using it as a form of contraceptive. It is only supposed to be used in emergency situations, so with that in mind, I don't think fifty/sixty euro is too much to pay at all. It's not like one should be having all that many accidents.

Donkey Oaty

Novella wrote: »

Tbph, I don't think it's a great idea. From what I've seen amongst my own friends, it would be something that'd be very easily abused, with many using it as a form of contraceptive. It is only supposed to be used in emergency situations, so with that in mind, I don't think fifty/sixty euro is too much to pay at all. It's not like one should be having all that many accidents.

Novella, surely it isn't just about the cost. It's about whether you need to seek permission from a doctor before taking the MAP, with all the time constraints and everything else involved.

Are your friends "abusing" it under the current system?

Owwmykneecap

MagicMarker wrote: »

Ugh! Please let's not go down that road.

What the road of actually deciding which side of the abortion fence we're going to settle on?

Donkey Oaty

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

What the road of actually deciding which side of the abortion fence we're going to settle on?

Which road is the one of women having the right to decide what to do with their own bodies? That's my road.