Shot in eye

gbee

My son was shot in the eye recently, 5 hours in A&E and back the following morning for another 5Hours in the Eye Clinic.

He was wearing the regulatory eye protection but the pellet seems to have entered from the top as he was ducking, he has scratches and cuts but a bruise on his retina which needs monitoring.

Meanwhile enter stage left, my other son has just bought a barely legal M-15 ~ :rolleyes::eek:

Doyler92

Is your son's eyesight affected after the incident?

Airsoft Reloded

gbee wrote: »

My son was shot in the eye recently, 5 hours in A&E and back the following morning for another 5Hours in the Eye Clinic.

He was wearing the regulatory eye protection but the pellet seems to have entered from the top as he was ducking, he has scratches and cuts but a bruise on his retina which needs monitoring.

Meanwhile enter stage left, my other son has just bought a barely legal M-15 ~ :rolleyes::eek:

Could you post a picture of the mask he was wearing so we can advise people not to buy them and to ensure that none of us rent them out?

I hope he is ok

SgtBob

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope your son makes a full and quick recovery.

elDiablo79

wat does barely legal mean? its under 1joule or its not.

Stercus Accidit

elDiablo79 wrote: »

wat does barely legal mean? its under 1joule or its not.

Its either legal or not as this guy said, bring it back to the retailer and if they give you any guff, remind them they sold a child a firearm.

Airsoft Reloded

elDiablo79 wrote: »

wat does barely legal mean? its under 1joule or its not.

He probably means .98 or something, no need to question him on it.

Doyler92

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Its either legal or not as this guy said, bring it back to the retailer and if they give you any guff, remind them they sold a child a firearm.

Nobody said anyone sold a child a firearm. An adult may have purchased it.

Stercus Accidit

Doyler92 wrote: »

Nobody said anyone sold a child a firearm. An adult may have purchased it.

Doesn't matter a bit, you'll find some chancers are less than helpful when guns are over, its important to remind them its illegal to sell them over the limit.

He could have sold it to a space alien for all it matters, the main point is having the thing downgraded if necessary.

Doyler92

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Doesn't matter a bit, you'll find some chancers are less than helpful when guns are over, its important to remind them its illegal to sell them over the limit.

He could have sold it to a space alien for all it matters, the main point is having the thing downgraded if necessary.

Sorry I agree. I took it up wrong as if you were concentrating on the part about selling to an under 18 year old.

Apologies Stercus.

Stone.cold

I had a similar thing happen recently the glasses I have been wearing for 2 yrs & swore by, I was putting my head down when a pistol was fired what ever angle my head was at the bb hit my eyebrow bounce off hit the inside of my glasses and bounce back into my eye luckily I only got a black eye but I learned my lesson and no my goggles form a tight seal around my eye, brian made a good request can u if possible show us the glasses/goggles your son was wearing & I hope he gets better soon and this incident does not put him off the sport

Dread-Lock

Well seeing has he said "my other son has just bought", it would probably be safe to assume his son bought it....Either way its still illegal to sell an airsoft gun thats firing over the limit to an adult.
Well he say its barely legal, legal being the keyword there.

Anyway back on topic, something similar happened to me (although thankfully no injury) with a pair of Guarder C4's (and yes I had the foam insert in it). Kind of worrying to be honest, and I haven't been able to trust those googles since.

I do hope your son recovers soon and that theres no lasting damage.

Leftyflip

Sorry to hear this and I hope your son makes a full recovery and it doesn't put him off the sport. As others have said if you could post a picture and indeed brand name of the goggles/glasses/mask, it would be great, unfortunately these things can happen, but if we know what he was wearing, it can reduce the amount of accidents like this. I know I'll be taking a good look at my eye protection from now on.
Once again, I wish your son all the best and a speedy recovery!

TNTQ

While we're on the subject lads...


If you knew how much these masks were manufactured for you would never trust your eyesight to them.

Not trying to scaremonger.:rolleyes: I just think your eyesight is worth more than €10

Leftyflip

TNTQ wrote: »

While we're on the subject lads...


If you knew how much these masks were manufactured for you would never trust your eyesight to them.

Not trying to scaremonger.:rolleyes: I just think your eyesight is worth more than €10

That's the thing though, there's a lot of people who seem to think "ah sure I'll spend a fiver for some glasses and the rest on BBs/battery/mags/etc", without thinking about their eyesight cos it's an "unlikely thing to happen".

evilrobotshane

This raises a good point actually, it'd be nice to see retailers test-fitting goggles on purchasers. Heads come in different shapes and sizes and the right goggles for one person might leave a gap at the sides or top or bottom where a BB could get through. Ski retailers will make sure boots they're selling fit properly, and goggles are about the most important piece of airsoft equipment there is. Sorry to be putting this on the guys in the shops, but it's not a huge task, should generally make the purchaser feel like they're being properly taken care of by experts, and will notch up the self-policing responsibility of the Irish airsoft community by another bit.

Those shooting glasses that don't seal around the edges are downright foolish and I personally don't think they should be sold by responsible airsoft vendors at all, certainly not to people intending to actually play the game.

TNTQ

Kinda hard to comment without it sounding like advertising but with regard to the lower masks. These should be custom fitted to the customer so that they are actually used, not bought and thrown aside because they are uncomfortable, although it is kind of unnatural to be wearing a lump of metal on your face and some people will never want to join the perceived 'full face nancy' brigade

I recently made a prototype with cordura on the sides and mesh just over the mouth and nose that works very well for those (including myself) who actually use sights.

This is a bit of a bug bear with me after losing Half a tooth

Gatling

one thing id love to see brought in on all sites is Under 18s wear mandatory full face masks ,
this of modeling shooting glasses is setting a bad example to younger players ,
if there not enclosed then they shouldnt be allowed on the field of play ,

Stercus Accidit

Maybe include it in the waiver, see how many parents decide little jimmys teeth are worth risking the dental fees for the sake of shooting glasses over full-face.

Most would sign up for the full-face masks.

I'd be looking into them myself, I've had enough close calls to want full-face now, its only the ability to aim while wearing it putting me off.

J.D.R

Gatling wrote: »

one thing id love to see brought in on all sites is Under 18s wear mandatory full face masks ,
this of modeling shooting glasses is setting a bad example to younger players ,
if there not enclosed then they shouldnt be allowed on the field of play ,

As a member of the <18 skirmishers, I personally think this isn't the issue. At most of the skirmishes I go to it is always the older more mature skirmishers that are wearing goggles, because they think they know it all and don't need the full face protection.

And, the New players who turn up without a full face mask will swiftly change their mind after the first shot to the cheek. To place a blanket Full face protection must be worn kind of thing on All players woudl be the way to go.

And, I may just be speaking for myself, but it is very hard to be influenced by someone wearing just the glasses when at the end of the day you see them with welts and blood on their faces.

Lemming

J.D.R wrote: »

At most of the skirmishes I go to it is always the older more mature skirmishers that are wearing goggles, because they think they know it all and don't need the full face protection.

I wear goggles/glasses by choice. I have worn full face masks, and I've gone through several itterations of face mask/goggles/glasses to know what suits me and I am prepared to consider acceptable. If I then get raked across the cheek then so be it; short of someone being an asshole and/or willfully blaise/careless and opening up point blank into my face, whatever happens is on my own head.

Personally, I think that <17 should perhaps have mandatory face protection. Not sure how a waiver would go because you then have a mixture of mask/no mask which the marshals need to keep track of on top of everything else.

Daz1214

@J.D.R...i completely disagree with you there, i wear only eye protection and most certainly not because i think i know it all, its because its whats comfortable for me

if i get shot in the face, so be it..i dont think people would appreciate a full face mask stipulation

i find the comment about mature players thinking they know it all as a bit ridiculous to be honest

Sgt.pepper

i just left the sport but probably going back into it
i don't think under 18's should wear full face masks considering that its hard to aim/move/when your not a fully grown man, i use to wear those crappy eye glasses, but now thinking of it, im buying proper goggles,

Stercus Accidit

Lemming wrote: »

I wear goggles/glasses by choice. I have worn full face masks, and I've gone through several itterations of face mask/goggles/glasses to know what suits me and I am prepared to consider acceptable. If I then get raked across the cheek then so be it; short of someone being an asshole and/or willfully blaise/careless and opening up point blank into my face, whatever happens is on my own head.

Personally, I think that <17 should perhaps have mandatory face protection. Not sure how a waiver would go because you then have a mixture of mask/no mask which the marshals need to keep track of on top of everything else.

Basically, its on your own head if you agree to fullface mask and decide to sneak on in goggles, and the parents could give the kids a giving out to if they are caught.

Lemming

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Basically, its on your own head if you agree to fullface mask and decide to sneak on in goggles, and the parents could give the kids a giving out to if they are caught.

Easier than that. Ejected from the site, parents told to bring them home (waste of money/time for the parents) and then told not to come back for a month (to pick an arbitrary duration of time) & why.

The ban would embarass any parents with an ounce of parenting skills (I make ommission for the "my little darling" brigade who do regrettably exist), but the ejection from site would mean a waste of money/time for the parents and that would guaruantee the child gets proverbial headslaps when they get home; even for the "my little darling" brigade as mummy & daddy are out of pocket.

Inari

Can we stop the "Kids should wear" "Adults are..." "All should..."

It's about personal preferance and site rules. Everyone must wear eye protection. That is the rule. Now, personally what I think would be a good move would be for the IAA, Sites & Retailers, working in conjunction with each other, to test a load of different brands, models and types of eye protection, to come up with a banned list (ones not allowed be sold, given away free, or rented), and also with an official recommended list.

Airsoft sites can then check everyones eye protection, and if it matches ones on the banned list, then it cannot be worn for safety reasons, and a proper rental pair can be provided/rented.

My logic is that if the load was spread, it creates a little less work, not too much financial loss (in terms of getting the products to effectively destroy), but can have very good publicity. Maybe I'm being a little naive here, but I think it could be very beneficial.

J.D.R

Lemming wrote: »

I wear goggles/glasses by choice. I have worn full face masks, and I've gone through several itterations of face mask/goggles/glasses to know what suits me and I am prepared to consider acceptable.

That's my point. Why are the younger skirmishers not able to make this choice aswell? I aggree that new players should be forced to wear full face masks, but I have often been told when I wore just glasses that I shouldn't and that I will regret it and...., even though I have worn glasses on their own many times.

I was not trying to say you were a know it all, just trying to point out a double standard. Just because you are young you are deemed unable to make up your own mind. I have no problem with new players being forced to wear full face masks, but as for having a blanket rule of under experienced 18's having to wear it, and then have a a novice 30 year old in just glasses, I just feel that that's unfair.

Lemming

Inari wrote: »

Now, personally what I think would be a good move would be for the IAA, Sites & Retailers, working in conjunction with each other, to test a load of different brands, models and types of eye protection, to come up with a banned list (ones not allowed be sold, given away free, or rented), and also with an official recommended list.

The IAA has no official power to create lists of products to be banned. They are not safety accredited, nor set up to provide safety accredited testing with metrics that can withstand scientific scrutiny, and would be stepping into a horrifically legal minefield not just blind, but blind drunk.

BY all means create a recommended list; but that's about as much as you can do. After that it comes down to judgement call by site operator/marshals on the day.

Stercus Accidit

My only suggestion is that it be an option on the waiver, or at least mentioned to highlight it.

Then, adult and parent alike will have the choice.

Like it or not, <18's can't sign a contract legally which a waiver is afaik.

Dread-Lock

J.D.R wrote: »

I was not trying to say you were a know it all, just trying to point out a double standard. Just because you are young you are deemed unable to make up your own mind. I have no problem with new players being forced to wear full face masks, but as for having a blanket rule of under experienced 18's having to wear it, and then have a a novice 30 year old in just glasses, I just feel that that's unfair.

Well its my understanding that most sites that have a restriction don't have a choice in the matter. In so much as its a restriction that their insurance company as put in place.

I assume the insurance company feels that parents might freak out if their child comes home missing a tooth or what have you.

And you might as well complain that its unfair that under 18's don't get to vote. (Not picking on you here, but thats just the way things are I'm afraid).

VonLuck

I am planning on buying protective eyewear but was just going to go for the "sunglasses" variety but after hearing this I'm not so sure. I dislike full face masks, so I guess I'll have to go with some form of goggles? Any ideas which ones are the best?

gbee

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

Could you post a picture of the mask he was wearing so we can advise people not to buy them and to ensure that none of us rent them out?

I hope he is ok

They were the 'safety goggles' rented, my son was offered the goggles or a mask.

I had not known the difference and asked him just now.

Too early yet to say how he is vision is getting better.

***edit we now know these goggles are in fact just safety glasses.

gbee

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

He probably means .98 or something, no need to question him on it.

Yes, that's exactly it, I'd not know myself first hand so I'm asking the questions as we go along.

gbee

Doyler92 wrote: »

Nobody said anyone sold a child a firearm. An adult may have purchased it.

My sons are over 21 and have organised paintball events since they were in school and have drifted into Airsoft.

gbee

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

He could have sold it to a space alien for all it matters, the main point is having the thing downgraded if necessary.

That's been done.

gbee

Gatling wrote: »

one thing id love to see brought in on all sites is Under 18s wear mandatory full face masks ,,

This is already the situation where my sons play. Adults had been given the choice of goggles or the full face mask.

My son chose the goggles. Now on further questioning they are in fact Safety Glasses.

This centre is now seeking that all wear the full face mask.

gbee

I've questioned my son, he says he was offered goggles or a full face mask. On identifying the item on Airsoft they were glasses.

My son used these previously and was shot in the glasses and the bb just bounced off.

Like these. Glasses with side protection.

Soberts

They might have been BIO BB's i have had one of them break through my mesh glasses and small fragments went in my eye and stung the area around my eye. Needless to say, i was alot more conservative when playing that day.

Inari

@Lemming: The IAA may not have the power to ban things outright, but would they not be able to have it as criteria to be an affiliated retailer/site? Hence the banned list from sites, and from sale in affiliated retailers, as well as the thoroughly recommended list.

Lemming

Inari wrote: »

@Lemming: The IAA may not have the power to ban things outright, but would they not be able to have it as criteria to be an affiliated retailer/site? Hence the banned list from sites, and from sale in affiliated retailers, as well as the thoroughly recommended list.

No. They can provide recommendation based on accredited safety ratings and/or suitability for airsoft (e.g. full head-seal/face cover/etc.), but they cannot provide a "banned" list without irrefutable scientifically backed proof. Any half-assed company with the worlds worst lawyer suffering the worlds worst ever hangover and still blind drunk as a monkey and off their head on crack cocaine would tear the IAA apart in a court of law if a banned list was produced.


Edit: Think about it Inari, what does a banned list say? It says that product x manufactured by company x is rubbish and will not keep you safe, because we said so. So don't give them any money, but only because we said so.

Then company x sues the IAA for defamation of their name & product(s) and for loss of earnings along with court costs. And they would sue very successfully, even with the worlds worst lawyer who happens to be suffering the worlds worst ever hangover despite still being blind drunk as a monkey and high off their head on crack-cocaine.

jeawan

Lemming wrote: »

No. They can provide recommendation based on accredited safety ratings and/or suitability for airsoft (e.g. full head-seal/face cover/etc.), but they cannot provide a "banned" list without irrefutable scientifically backed proof. Any half-assed company with the worlds worst lawyer suffering the worlds worst ever hangover and still blind drunk as a monkey and off their head on crack cocaine would tear the IAA apart in a court of law if a banned list was produced.


Edit: Think about it Inari, what does a banned list say? It says that product x manufactured by company x is rubbish and will not keep you safe, because we said so. So don't give them any money, but only because we said so.

This is true but you could have a Recommended list instead of a Banned list

Lemming

jeawan wrote: »

This is true but you could have a Recommended list instead of a Banned list

Errrr .....

..... o-kayyyyyy. So someone hasn't been reading the last ten or so posts I see. Did I not say - twice for those of you keeping count - that a recommended list could be created?

The IAA (or whomever) can create as many lists as they damn well please, just not a banned list, or an un-recommended list, or a "not-very-good" list, or "insert-negative-term-of-choice-to-dance-around-the-word-banned" list

BioHazRd

One reason we can't "ban" any products is that we would then have to take some liability if an approved product failed. It just wont happen.
On a related note, how many people here use goggles / glasses and don't realise that they need to be replaced annually or after they have taken a direct hit even though there may be no visible signs of damage ? The plastic that the lenses is made of deteriorates over time and reduces the effectivity and safety. Dr airsoft (search YouTube / facebook) did an interesting experiment where he shot two facemasks (granted, fps in us is higher). One face mask was new and one was old ( they were the same model ) and the bb was deflected by the new lens and it shattered the old lens. It's a very sobering thought once you consider they havent perfected the eye transplant yet.
You also need to ensure your eye protection is suitable for skirmishing and adheres to the correct standards. I know of one retailer in Dublin who sells shooting style glasses with a notice saying they are only suitable for target shooting and not skirmishing.
Work safety glasses are generally rated considerably lower than the energies we deal with in airsoft.
Don't skimp on eye protection, and if you play a lot with rentals, please, at the very least, buy your own suitable eye protection before you even buy an aeg. The top end stuff isn't really that expensive.

ricka

BioHazRd wrote: »

One reason we can't "ban" any products is that we would then have to take some liability if an approved product failed. It just wont happen.
On a related note, how many people here use goggles / glasses and don't realise that they need to be replaced annually or after they have taken a direct hit even though there may be no visible signs of damage ? The plastic that the lenses is made of deteriorates over time and reduces the effectivity and safety. Dr airsoft (search YouTube / facebook) did an interesting experiment where he shot two facemasks (granted, fps in us is higher). One face mask was new and one was old ( they were the same model ) and the bb was deflected by the new lens and it shattered the old lens. It's a very sobering thought once you consider they havent perfected the eye transplant yet.
You also need to ensure your eye protection is suitable for skirmishing and adheres to the correct standards. I know of one retailer in Dublin who sells shooting style glasses with a notice saying they are only suitable for target shooting and not skirmishing.
Work safety glasses are generally rated considerably lower than the energies we deal with in airsoft.
Don't skimp on eye protection, and if you play a lot with rentals, please, at the very least, buy your own suitable eye protection before you even buy an aeg. The top end stuff isn't really that expensive.

A second retailer will be doing likewise as of now!
Thanks Richard

Leftyflip

Tits, spent an hour making those...
5 rounds(sub 1 joule, roughly 0.7), ~25mm from the lens...

gbee

BioHazRd wrote: »

You also need to ensure your eye protection is suitable for skirmishing and adheres to the correct standards. ... shooting style glasses with a notice saying they are only suitable for target shooting and not skirmishing. .

I think this a pertinent point.

jeawan

BioHazRd wrote: »

One reason we can't "ban" any products is that we would then have to take some liability if an approved product failed. It just wont happen.
On a related note, how many people here use goggles / glasses and don't realise that they need to be replaced annually or after they have taken a direct hit even though there may be no visible signs of damage ? The plastic that the lenses is made of deteriorates over time and reduces the effectivity and safety. Dr airsoft (search YouTube / facebook) did an interesting experiment where he shot two facemasks (granted, fps in us is higher). One face mask was new and one was old ( they were the same model ) and the bb was deflected by the new lens and it shattered the old lens. It's a very sobering thought once you consider they havent perfected the eye transplant yet.
You also need to ensure your eye protection is suitable for skirmishing and adheres to the correct standards. I know of one retailer in Dublin who sells shooting style glasses with a notice saying they are only suitable for target shooting and not skirmishing.
Work safety glasses are generally rated considerably lower than the energies we deal with in airsoft.
Don't skimp on eye protection, and if you play a lot with rentals, please, at the very least, buy your own suitable eye protection before you even buy an aeg. The top end stuff isn't really that expensive.

That is interesting regarding the direct hits to the glasses i have a pair of Bolles and they have had direct hits twice now , maybe it time i bought a new pair .

@ Lemming Sorry man i didn't read the last few posts

Inari

@Lemming & Biohazard: Very fair points. I completely overlooked the liabilities associated with the aforementioned list idea. I was thinking that the testing used to eliminate products from the market would be sufficient, however forgot that they need to be done to certain standards, which drives the cost up to a point where it's not worth doing.

Credit where it's due

bigben121

can any one tell me the best eyeprotection?

fayer

Lemming wrote: »

No. They can provide recommendation based on accredited safety ratings and/or suitability for airsoft (e.g. full head-seal/face cover/etc.), but they cannot provide a "banned" list without irrefutable scientifically backed proof. Any half-assed company with the worlds worst lawyer suffering the worlds worst ever hangover and still blind drunk as a monkey and off their head on crack cocaine would tear the IAA apart in a court of law if a banned list was produced.


Edit: Think about it Inari, what does a banned list say? It says that product x manufactured by company x is rubbish and will not keep you safe, because we said so. So don't give them any money, but only because we said so.

Then company x sues the IAA for defamation of their name & product(s) and for loss of earnings along with court costs. And they would sue very successfully, even with the worlds worst lawyer who happens to be suffering the worlds worst ever hangover despite still being blind drunk as a monkey and high off their head on crack-cocaine.

Question on this came up last year, only standards we could find that were relevant related to the impact the protection could withstand not the coverage area. It was a british standard.

BostonB

Slightly off topic maybe but I got a nasty blow from a paintball once as a ricochet off a tree behind, which came from behind into a full mask, with enough force to give a nasty bruise on the chin. Wasn't expecting that.