Church Burnings - Could it Happen here?

JupiterKid

I was watching an interesting and darkly compelling documentary about a wave of church burnings in Norway in the 1990s, where black metal activists were behind the burnings and wanted to rid Norway of Christianity and revert the country to neopaganist Viking beliefs. A number of churches, including some historic wooden stave churches, were burned to the ground.

My question is could it happen here in Ireland? The man believed to be behind the Norway church burnings, Varg Vikerenes, believes that the Church got its just desserts after what it did to the people of Norway. He has also suggested that he would support church burning campaigns in other countries. We know that in Ireland the Catholic church did great harm and evil to tens of thousands of people and that some people are very angry with the Church.

So, does anyone think that a neopagan or anti-Christian group could start off a wave of church burnings here? And would you condone or condemn it?

UrbanSea

Unless all the churches here are fire proof,then yes it could happen.

Leftyflip

*gets pitchfork and torch*

Cakes.

Some fella set two churches on fire in Dundalk..
He had a mental illness are something like that

PeterIanStaker

Don't burn the churches, convert them into cinemas that show hardcore porn in 3D instead.

Corsendonk

Yes it could, but sure the parish priest will have it fully insured before doing it. Vegas aint cheap these days.

Yawns

It sure could!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1225/longford.html

Killer Pigeon

Wasn't Longford cathedral burnt down on Christmas day.

Superbus

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Wasn't Longford cathedral burnt down on Christmas day.

Was that arson?

If it was, why would you burn Longford cathedral, of all the cathedrals?

Yawns

Well they say it was an accident due to the boiler, but on Christams Day? Too much of a coincidence I say! It's the Vikings come back RAR!

AH Responce*

OP Post a pic of you burning a church or GTFO!

Killer Pigeon

Now people whatever you do don't start blaming militant atheists; they have more sense and do not resort to violence, m'kay. Pagans on the otherhand ... I wouldn't trust that crowd.

Why would you want to burn down a church? What the heck could it possibly achieve?

Killer Pigeon

Superbus wrote: »

Was that arson?

If it was, why would you burn Longford cathedral, of all the cathedrals?

Well, it was a coincidence that it was burned down on Christmas Day; a major church holiday, and only a few weeks after damning reports about the catholic church were released. Arson may have been a cause. Anyway, Longford Cathedral is quite a major cathedral in the north west region.

mossyc123

Deleted User wrote: »

Why would you want to burn down a church? What the heck could it possibly achieve?

Would give the weirdo anti-theists on boards a little chuckle...Apart from that, upset and inconvenience a lot of communities.

Cool_CM

JupiterKid wrote: »

The man believed to be behind the Norway church burnings, Varg Vikerenes, believes that the Church got its just desserts after what it did to the people of Norway. He has also suggested that he would support church burning campaigns in other countries. We know that in Ireland the Catholic church did great harm and evil to tens of thousands of people and that some people are very angry with the Church.

He makes good music, but that's about it. Read into his other beliefs and you won't be paraphrasing them so liberally!

galwayrush

I believe Tullamore Church was burnt in an arson attack some time back.

Prof.Badass

Yes it could.
I can see the movie title now:

Revenge of the headshops.

PeterIanStaker

This thread makes me wanna listen to some Burzum

Enjoy

Sea Sharp

No. I mean yes. I mean No.

starlit

Its a possibility that It could happen.

starbelgrade

Superbus wrote: »

Was that arson?

If it was, why would you burn Longford cathedral, of all the cathedrals?

Why not?

JupiterKid

Personally I would never condone the burning of Curches.

Many are very historic and beautiful structures but they do represent an organisation that effectively oppressed and enslaved the Irish people for centuries.

I would like to see churches put to other uses such as museums or libraries. Maybe a large church or former religious institutional complex could me made into a museum of clerical child abuse?

I do think that, given the pain, misery and anger that the Church in Ireland has caused, that the prospect of a wave of church burnings is a very real one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e2G0coKVAI

starbelgrade

JupiterKid wrote: »

I would like to see churches put to other uses such as museums or libraries.

Or nightclubs.

Misanthrope

Burning a church serves no purpose unless you fill it with paedo priests first.Even then we can burn priests in any one of our fossil fuel burning power station.

We should evict the churches and allow charities to put the buildings to use for community centres,social services,hostels etc.All parochial houses and vehicles should be commandeered.All precious metals should be smelted and sold.

I would be delighted to assist in the upkeep, physically or financially of my local church once religion has been totally eradicated

Misanthrope

That said, if torching churches is all it takes to hunt the menace out of Ireland,someone get me a flamethrower

Ps. For a safer molotov, use the Grolsch Classic swingtop bottle.Much easier to transport.

starbelgrade

Misanthrope wrote: »

We should evict the churches and allow charities to put the buildings to use for community centres,social services,hostels etc.All parochial houses and vehicles should be commandeered.All precious metals should be smelted and sold.

Well you'd have to have a referendum first to change Article 44 of the Constitution, which states that "Every religious denomination shall have the right to manage its own affairs, own, acquire and administer property, movable and immovable, and maintain institutions for religious or charitable purposes."

bonerm

Nah it couldn't happen here. Most of our population grow out of listening to metal by the age of about 15.

Misanthrope

starbelgrade wrote: »

Well you'd have to have a referendum first to change Article 44 of the Constitution, which states that "Every religious denomination shall have the right to manage its own affairs, own, acquire and administer property, movable and immovable, and maintain institutions for religious or charitable purposes."

Lets have one of those so.

demonspawn

JupiterKid wrote: »

I was watching an interesting and darkly compelling documentary about a wave of church burnings in Norway in the 1990s, where black metal activists were behind the burnings and wanted to rid Norway of Christianity and revert the country to neopaganist Viking beliefs. A number of churches, including some historic wooden stave churches, were burned to the ground.

So, does anyone think that a neopagan or anti-Christian group could start off a wave of church burnings here? And would you condone or condemn it?

You mean this lad that was convicted of stabbing one of his band members 23 times, killing him, and believed to have eaten part of another band member's brain after he committed suicide? I hope to f**k we don't have people like that in this country.

Misanthrope

demonspawn wrote: »

You mean this lad that was convicted of stabbing one of his band members 23 times, killing him, and believed to have eaten part of another band members brain after he committed suicide? I hope to f**k we don't have people like that in this country.

Regrettably we do.And this one walks free.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ed9OgLJJ-c

Both guys are warped

Roro4Brit

Cakesofrice wrote: »

Some fella set two churches on fire in Dundalk..
He had a mental illness are something like that

Oh right....HE was the one with the mental illness. So where did all the poor sane people to kneel before their idol who was born of a virgin, turns water into wine and rises from the dead? :rolleyes:

PeterIanStaker

Former churches would make good online gaming cafes - that way there'd be virgins on the altar once more!

Dyr

Wouldnt happen, most heavy kettlers over here are middle class puff's

mossyc123

Misanthrope wrote: »

Lets have one of those so.

A referendum to make Religion effectively illegal. Best of luck winning that. Thankfully, most Irish people aren't warped anti-Catholics like some of the contributors here. They see the societal benefits of having a religious presence throughout the country far outweigh the crimes of a few paedophile priests and perceived social oppression.

Misanthrope

mossyc123 wrote: »

A referendum to make Religion effectively illegal. Best of luck winning that. Thankfully, most Irish people aren't warped anti-Catholics like some of the contributors here. They see the societal benefits of having a religious presence throughout the country far outweigh the crimes of a few paedophile priests and perceived social oppression.

A few?Lots. and they are just the ones who got caught.

It's not merely anti-catholic ,it's anti-religion.Some of us want a secular state.I don't need any church to keep myself in line .Do you.Who do you think does?

Rabble Rabble

Misanthrope wrote: »

A few?Lots. and they are just the ones who got caught.

It's not merely anti-catholic ,it's anti-religion.Some of us want a secular state.I don't need any church to keep myself in line .Do you.Who do you think does?

You seem to want a religion free state, which is not the same as a secular State. The Churches are private buildings. They can be run as nightclubs when they are sold, not when they are seized.

As for the guy who said the Church enslaved the Irish people for centuries, I know that the Leaving Cert has really really really dumbed down, but seriously.

The Catholic Church was banned for centuries. During that time the oppressor were the British and Church Of Ireland.

starbelgrade

mossyc123 wrote: »

A referendum to make Religion effectively illegal. Best of luck winning that. Thankfully, most Irish people aren't warped anti-Catholics like some of the contributors here. They see the societal benefits of having a religious presence throughout the country far outweigh the crimes of a few paedophile priests and perceived social oppression.

I'm not anti-Catholic - I believe that people should be free to practice whatever religion they want.

However, saying that the church in Ireland is guilty of "the crimes of a few paedophile priests and perceived social oppression" is hugely disingenuous.

The Ryan Report demonstrated beyond a doubt that the entire system of Industrial schools, run by the Church, treated children more like prison inmates and slaves than people with legal rights and human potential, that some religious officials encouraged ritual beatings and consistently shielded their orders amid a "culture of self-serving secrecy".

Among the more extreme allegations of abuse were beatings and rapes, subjection to naked beatings in public, being forced into oral sex and even subjection to beatings after failed rape attempts by brothers. The abuse was endemic in the institutions that dealt with boys.

There is a lot more to that than a few paedophiles & a percieved social oppression. A lot more.

Rabble Rabble

starbelgrade wrote: »

I'm not anti-Catholic - I believe that people should be free to practice whatever religion they want.

However, saying that the church in Ireland is guilty of "the crimes of a few paedophile priests and perceived social oppression" is hugely disingenuous.

The Ryan Report demonstrated beyond a doubt that the entire system of Industrial schools, run by the Church, treated children more like prison inmates and slaves than people with legal rights and human potential, that some religious officials encouraged ritual beatings and consistently shielded their orders amid a "culture of self-serving secrecy".

Among the more extreme allegations of abuse were beatings and rapes, subjection to naked beatings in public, being forced into oral sex and even subjection to beatings after failed rape attempts by brothers. The abuse was endemic in the institutions that dealt with boys.

There is a lot more to that than a few paedophiles & a percieved social oppression. A lot more.

So were these industrial schools run by the State would we be demanding the abolition of the State?

starbelgrade

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

So were these industrial schools run by the State would we be demanding the abolition of the State?

Did you even read what I posted?

As you clearly didn't, I will quote you the first line of my post..

"I'm not anti-Catholic - I believe that people should be free to practice whatever religion they want."

There is nothing in my post to suggest that the Church should be abolished & if you knew anything about the Industrial schools, you would also know that they funded and supervised by the Irish Department of Education, so the State have a huge responsibilty in what was allowed to happen.

But as your username suggests, you seem to be uninterested in facts, or actually reading what people say, and more interested in the "rabble rabble".

Manach

Burning down our Catholic churches, is that the signal for the general purge to begin against Religious types Comrade?

starbelgrade

Manach wrote: »

Burning down our Catholic churches, is that the signal for the general purge to begin against Religious types Comrade?

Is that question directed at me?

Rabble Rabble

starbelgrade wrote: »

But as your username suggests, you seem to be uninterested in facts, or actually reading what people say, and more interested in the "rabble rabble".

username is ironic. I find the modern atheist to be a bit of a rabble rouser, though.

We are talking about burning down Churches and not everyone seems opposed.

( not saying you were pro-arson, though).

starbelgrade

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

username is ironic. I find the modern atheist to be a bit of a rabble rouser, though.

We are talking about burning down Churches and not everyone seems opposed.

( not saying you were pro-arson, though).

Though I find the idea of burning churches an extremely stupid idea, the Catholic Church has only itself to blame for the anger that people have towards it these days. And the anger is not soley exclusive to aethiests - there are many Catholics who feel extremely hurt & let down by the Church they practice theri faith in.

PeterIanStaker

starbelgrade wrote: »

Tthere are many Catholics who feel extremely hurt & let down by the Church they practice theri faith in.

your quite right,I have relatives who would be getting on in years and some of them are angry, betrayed and genuinely appalled at how the hierarchy behave. One of my aunts recently described Ratzinger in terms that would make a Boardsie thank her, and she'd be very old-school.

flag123

Burning churches? No


Burning Mosques? Yes

starbelgrade

flag123 wrote: »

Burning churches? No


Burning Mosques? Yes

Two legs good.

Four legs bad.

Star Bingo

the old 18th century church on the corner of crumlin village was burnt out by skangers around 8yr ago. if we had a 90% grebo black metalhead population here as opposed to our 90% skanks in stripes, i still doubt it would have happened.

discobeaker

Sure... The Church has ruined alot of peoples lives and it is the biggests money making con in history but on the other side

Varg Vikerenes is a convicted killer,satanist and is meant to have dealings with nazis so............ Its a tough one!

Actually,check out the book Lords of Chaos. It talks alot about Varg and the Black metal scene in the late 80's and talks about the church burnings. A good read if you dont mind seeing a picture of a guy who blew his brains out.

PeterIanStaker

Thought Varg was more into Norse stuff, Odin Thor and all that? Not that his beliefs would influence me or take away from the music, I must give that book a look - the guy with his brains blown out, Dead from Mayhem, was by all accounts a bit crazy.

JupiterKid

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Thought Varg was more into Norse stuff, Odin Thor and all that? Not that his beliefs would influence me or take away from the music, I must give that book a look - isnt the guy with his brains out Dead from Mayhem?

Yep. Varg is a paganist who wants to rid Norway of Christianity and have the country revert to Norse paganism.

Maybe there is an embryonic movement here in Ireland that wants to re-establish pre-Christian Celtic pagan beliefs and express their disdain at Christianity by burning churches down?

Archeron

Bloody hell, dont burn the churches. Many of them contain some of the best architecture in Ireland, not to mention incredible stained glass and art work.

Dont deny future generations part of their structural and artistic heritage just because you're p*ssed off at the local pervy priest.

Burn the local pervy priest instead, then everyone wins.