Work for Dole scheme announced

oppenheimer1

According to RTE, a new work for dole scheme has been announced where claimants will have to work 19.5hr/wk in the community in order to claim benefits. While I can see the advantages to such a scheme, I can also see the negative side. Will it take jobs away from other people? Will it make it harder for the long term unemployed to get jobs or will a new underclass of community workers develop, getting by on a meagre €210 a week?

link:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0829/welfare.html

johnnyskeleton

It's a good idea in theory, but in practice will probably go a bit pear shaped.

seithon

Well aside from the risk of possibly undercutting existing businesses I see no real problem with this. Indeed I've thought such a thing would be a good idea for some time now.

TheReverend

I have already posted this on the IE forum, as long as this is done fairly (target long term users of the dole who have never worked a day in their life first) then it could be a good idea. Also give people a choice where they work, let them choose from other things such as animal shelters and such. I would hate to see people degraded to picking up litter in the street or painting walls to cover up graffiti

gbee

It's a good idea and it's much needed, there is plenty of work to do but cash strapped local authorities won't hire the men.

It keeps the potential claimant in a work frame so he is better prepared to take on permanent work when it becomes available. Workers can lose the incentive and the will to do anything over time so keeping them occupied is a sound idea.

It should also have benefits in crime, not only will some of the claimants be active in either black market work or crime, they will come across some crime and vandalism that they or their children will have caused. So if dad has to clean the graffiti off the wall that his son did the night before ... well, I think you get the point.

'Community Service' for minor offences may cause the wrong connection to this scheme though, it would need to be handled sensitively.

Mr.Micro

Who is going to set up such a scheme, how is it going to be run and is it yet another agency?? Look at the sham that FAS is and the way it is run. Pure sound byte BS. Why not just create public infrastructure projects and employ people or is it just slave labour that this idiotic Government wants?

Why not just line up the ferries and planes and export our people like they did in the past.....because that is what Biffo would really like to solve the problem of unemployment.

cavedave

Great does this allow those whose partners earned slightly above average industrial wage to have an income while unemployed? Or are they are still left to fend for themselves as they are not currently in receipt of dole even though they are unemployed?

kerash

Sounds like the CE Scheme thats all ready in place through Fás..

d4v1d

i think working for the dole is a great idea. contrary to other opinions expressed above i don't think it should be thought out with any great concern for sensitivity to who it should target or what roles should be performed.

this sort of pc attitude is far too prevelant and is one of the reasons why every good idea is shot down in seconds as we must 'protect the vulnerable' in society and all that. water rates, property tax, means testing the medical card, etc, all great ideas but then someone pipes up with 'we need to make sure that this does not affect the vulnerable' and other such pc drive.

picking up rubbish or cleaning graffiti is nothing to be ashamed of. i often go out in my local area picking up the rubbish that scumbags just dump (gormely has a lot to answer for with his policies on waste) at the side of the road. if i saw someone/anyone picking up rubbish or cleaning up the place in any way i'd be bloody delighted. well done to anyone that does this for a living i say.

so if someone that did not have a job, as i currently don't, had to go out for a few hours and start making the place that bit better in order to get the dole, then be indiscriminate and send as many people out as possible. to hell with sensitivity.

cavedave

d4v1d i think working for the dole is a great idea. contrary to other opinions expressed above i don't think it should be thought out with any great concern for sensitivity to who it should target or what roles should be performed.

Remember this quote the first time we hear a pedophile is put in charge of children

yoshytoshy

As long as theres more people doing work ,than there is in an office telling them what to do (HSE)
Should be good for everyone.

Chinasea

promises promises.

This will most likely never happen. The UK are pulling the duvets off the Vickie Pollards, the Waynes and the Waynettas and as usual Ireland is looking on pretending it might do something about their Irish couisants.

deise go deo

I think such a thing is long overdue, However I would prefer an optional work and get extra system where people who work get more money than people who choose not to.

MidlandsM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

It's a good idea in theory, but in practice will probably go a bit pear shaped.

+1, and there'll be a lot of brest feeding of shovels going on with these scheme's, typically oirish:rolleyes:

unit 1

seithon wrote: »

Well aside from the risk of possibly undercutting existing businesses I see no real problem with this. Indeed I've thought such a thing would be a good idea for some time now.

Hmmm I'm tempted to think certain nomadic people will have issues with staying in one spot for that length of time;)

yoshytoshy

unit 1 wrote: »

Hmmm I'm tempted to think certain nomadic people will have issues with staying in one spot for that length of time;)

I hear copper has gone up in price, I'm sure they'll be alright without the government

letmerollit

Great idea, here's hoping it gets executed properly. If people refuse to do the social work then I think the the amount they receive should be reduced by at least 50%.

Personally I'd love to see scum bags and skangers forced to give a bit back. The exploitation of our social welfare system is epidemic. Everyone talks about the foreigners who fly in for dole but nobody talks about the scum bags who go from cradle to grave never holding a job all the while going through live terrorizing decent folk and breeding more of their kind.

Imagine if you will on your commute to work seeing skangers, en mass, picking up trash on the N11? Sweeping the streets in town, prying up gum from the foot paths. Have them do it in their own neighborhoods as well. I can't tell you how many times I've seen these people littering and letting their dogs ****e anywhere they please. Maybe if they have to clean it up they'll be less inclined to foul their streets.

This would also be a great way to put people back to work. Construction workers and those who hold a safe pass could work 19.5 hours a week building. Prisons, roads, schools...

This might be the way to bring about real social change in this country. Way too many people think it's their god given right to leach off the rest of us.

Alwayson

I'm unemployed and spend all my time trying to find work. When I do get an interview, I usually have to prepare a presentation as well. This all takes time. While I have nothing against the idea of working for the dole, if I had to work half the week on the proposed scheme, it would probably decrease my chances of getting permanent work.

letmerollit

TheReverend wrote: »

I have already posted this on the IE forum, as long as this is done fairly (target long term users of the dole who have never worked a day in their life first) then it could be a good idea. Also give people a choice where they work, let them choose from other things such as animal shelters and such. I would hate to see people degraded to picking up litter in the street or painting walls to cover up graffiti

Degraded? Work is never degrading. I was out of work for two months and I wasn't eligible for the dole because I was self employed previously. If they allowed me to get on the dole and let me work for it I would have been happy to pick up litter and remove graffiti... no shame in working. I don't care who you are. Before I was made redundant I was contracting at Bank of Scotland, I was on €75,000 per year. If someone wants to pay me now to clean up mess I will.

This is the problem with our society today, people think good honest labour is "degrading".

patwicklow

or maybe send them to the 5 star golf clubs to wash up after the bankers/ politicians banquets that they always have.......
well come to new age slavery.like €220 for 19 hours?? and i bet that will be taxed also, what year is this? easy know politicians dont know the price of petrol.

letmerollit

Alwayson wrote: »

I'm unemployed and spend all my time trying to find work. When I do get an interview, I usually have to prepare a presentation as well. This all takes time. While I have nothing against the idea of working for the dole, if I had to work half the week on the proposed scheme, it would probably decrease my chances of getting permanent work.

Excuses, excuses. You can find the time like.

I was in the same exact situation. I'd spend hours applying online for jobs during the day and prepping for interviews. However, evenings and weekends were free. Most afternoons were free as well.

I went on 9 interviews in the space of two months, I sent out hundreds (yes, hundreds of CVs) to get those interviews and I would still have had time to work elsewhere. I felt worthless during those two months and I would have loved a bit of labour. Cleaning, helping with young ones, working in an animal shelter... Helping out the elderly or picking up trash. I wouldn't have minded at all. I would have enjoyed the distraction. I would have loved knowing I was contributing.

The unemployed receiving dole payments are an untapped resource. Get out there and earn your bread I say.

Best idea ever. If Fianna Fáil had been doing things like this for the last 7 years we wouldn't be where we are today, sadly it takes all this before they start making good decisions.

Alwayson

Not interested in getting into "my daddy's bigger than yours" territory. My point applies to my circumstances, everyone is different. Unemployment sucks, we all have to deal with it in our own way.

caseyann

letmerollit wrote: »

Excuses, excuses. You can find the time like.

I was in the same exact situation. I'd spend hours applying online for jobs during the day and prepping for interviews. However, evenings and weekends were free. Most afternoons were free as well.

I went on 9 interviews in the space of two months, I sent out hundreds (yes, hundreds of CVs) to get those interviews and I would still have had time to work elsewhere. I felt worthless during those two months and I would have loved a bit of labour. Cleaning, helping with young ones, working in an animal shelter... Helping out the elderly or picking up trash. I wouldn't have minded at all. I would have enjoyed the distraction. I would have loved knowing I was contributing.

The unemployed receiving dole payments are an untapped resource. Get out there and earn your bread I say.

Best idea ever. If Fianna Fáil had been doing things like this for the last 7 years we wouldn't be where we are today, sadly it takes all this before they start making good decisions.

Utter rubbish,claiming that.Only thing made this country and economy as it is today is the government.

letmerollit

caseyann wrote: »

Utter rubbish,claiming that.Only thing made this country and economy as it is today is the government.

You read that wrong.

I'm saying this is the first good decision they've made.

Yes, I Fianna Fáil responsible for our downfall, completely.

letmerollit

Alwayson wrote: »

Not interested in getting into "my daddy's bigger than yours" territory. My point applies to my circumstances, everyone is different. Unemployment sucks, we all have to deal with it in our own way.

Ya you're not going to argue because you yourself know how idle the unemployed get. After I cleaned the gaff about 100 times and and went to the gym about 100 more times I started getting stir crazy. There is only so much day time TV you can watch like. You're not special and if you're being honest you'd admit you're only making excuses. You can find the time to contribute if you want. Maybe it means not spending all weekend in the pub. Maybe it means changing things around but you make time like.

I can't wait to hear all the excuses from people who are assigned work. I tell you this much if I'm ever out of work again the first thing I am going to do is asked to be put on assignment.

Alwayson

You sound more like an an unemployed lifestyle coach than a bank consultant. I never watch day time TV. I go to the pub once a week. Looking for work is harder than actually working itself. I worked in an area that constantly changes. So I do a lot of research to keep myself fresh. So lots of your assumptions are wrong. Plus if you read my initial post you will see that I have no objection to this scheme.

KeithAFC

This just for the republic?

Adyx

caseyann wrote: »

Utter rubbish,claiming that.Only thing made this country and economy as it is today is the government.

Are you serious? Certainly they could have done more to minimise the effects, but the fact is that no other Irish government could have done anything to prevent a recession which had a global effect and is at least partly the fault of ordinary Irish people.

OT: I'm unemployed myself and would be in favour of this if it could be tailored somewhat towards gaining experience in your chosen field. For example I'd love to get some IT experience which I've just finished studying in college and the FAS WPP is only open to people who have been unemployed for at least 3 months. There was a perfect WP job advertised recently in Waterford for 40 hours a week in a 3rd level college working in the IT dept. but I'm not eligible.

caseyann

letmerollit wrote: »

You read that wrong.

I'm saying this is the first good decision they've made.

Yes, I Fianna Fáil responsible for our downfall, completely.

Sorry

It is a good decision been made and shouted all over the place on here by alot of us and by other party members for years.
They didnt come up with this.
They should have trained those people on the dole long ago and filled the positions that the polish etc.. filled,instead of bringing in immigrant workers.
They are royal screw ups.
They are worried about getting the votes back,and that is only reason they are bothering with something that has been said for years.

Cat Melodeon

I have no problems working for dole but I would have serious problems affording childcare if I were to take part in such a scheme. It wouldn't just be for the 19.5 hours in 3 straight shifts - many of the types of work proposed are not regular working hours or are in areas like childcare where the 19.5 hours would most likely be spread across 5 days. Add on travel time to the childminder and then to work and there won't be much change out of €210 per week. If they throw in free childcare (presumably to be done by other work-for-dolers, or 'scum' as AH likes to call them) and maybe it would be a more feasible scheme.

cavedave

letmerollit

Degraded? Work is never degrading

caseyann

Adyx wrote: »

Are you serious? Certainly they could have done more to minimise the effects, but the fact is that no other Irish government could have done anything to prevent a recession which had a global effect and is at least partly the fault of ordinary Irish people.

OT: I'm unemployed myself and would be in favour of this if it could be tailored somewhat towards gaining experience in your chosen field. For example I'd love to get some IT experience which I've just finished studying in college and the FAS WPP is only open to people who have been unemployed for at least 3 months. There was a perfect WP job advertised recently in Waterford for 40 hours a week in a 3rd level college working in the IT dept. but I'm not eligible.

They were warned years ago by economists and they didn't listen,just kept living high life.They didn't even have a saving plan to fall back on,which as a government they should have had in place.And you know why because they never lose out and never have to worry about a bill cause they get paid regardless.

Ordinary Irish people,so what are government gods lol
Ordinary Irish people did not have hold of purse strings of economy;)

round tower huntsman

im on the dole. im starting a full time fas course next week, fas will pay my dole for the course. im a plumber but have been applying for all types of work and not getting any replies. i would have no problem doing community work etc...for my dole as long as it didnt cost me anything eg. travel expenses etc...
but tbh if ff are going to run this it'll be a complete disaster imo. also i think that you should be offered a multiple choice of different types of work not just offered one job,take it or loose your dole.
people on the dole should be treated with respect and not bossed around like school kids. we're not on the dole by choice.

thebaldsoprano

I'd be curious to see how unions react to this. I'd imagine work like street cleaning for the corpo/council is quite heavily unionised and this could bring in a situation where you'd have people earning PS rates and dole rates for doing exactly the same job.

Personally, if I were to find myself redundant I'd jump at the chance to get out of the flat do some work, even though I've got plenty of other things to keep me occupied.

yoshytoshy

I'd say without a shadow of a doubt ,this will abolish Ce schemes all over ireland.

caseyann

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

I have no problems working for dole but I would have serious problems affording childcare if I were to take part in such a scheme. It wouldn't just be for the 19.5 hours in 3 straight shifts - many of the types of work proposed are not regular working hours or are in areas like childcare where the 19.5 hours would most likely be spread across 5 days. Add on travel time to the childminder and then to work and there won't be much change out of €210 per week. If they throw in free childcare (presumably to be done by other work-for-dolers, or 'scum' as AH likes to call them) and maybe it would be a more feasible scheme.

This is the thing,where my friend is from.For her children they have free after school care set up.Open from eight in morning until 7 in evening.She works in a retirement home,for dole wages.She doesnt have to hunt down a safe and low rate child minder.As we all know how much child minders cost if private.
Its your whole wages per hour.

Darlughda

letmerollit wrote: »

I felt worthless during those two months and I would have loved a bit of labour. Cleaning, helping with young ones, working in an animal shelter... Helping out the elderly or picking up trash. I wouldn't have minded at all. I would have enjoyed the distraction. I would have loved knowing I was contributing.

The unemployed receiving dole payments are an untapped resource. Get out there and earn your bread I say.

Then why did you not do voluntary work during your two months of unemployment?

letmerollit wrote: »

Ya you're not going to argue because you yourself know how idle the unemployed get. After I cleaned the gaff about 100 times and and went to the gym about 100 more times I started getting stir crazy. There is only so much day time TV you can watch like. .

There are hundreds of volunteer opportunities out there just check out www.volunteer.ie, why do you need a government to force you to work?

I am suspicious about this scheme. If it incorporates volunteer work then fine, but otherwise it smells of motivation draining pencil pushing jobs that are unnecessary, half-baked and badly supervised.

I would much rather see volunteer placements being incorporated into this, that are properly supervised and has real value for the individual and the community.

Valmont

I wouldn't introduce a scheme like this before a reduction in welfare. Trying to decrease social welfare after instituting a work-for-dole scheme would just be too hard to sell; heck, trying to sell a significant decrease full stop is going to be difficult.

gandalf

Depending on what way they impliement this I would welcome it. It would have to target the long term unemployed to get them back into the habit of working rather than those who have lost their jobs recently. Unfortunately the cynic in me suspects it will be a means of massaging unemployment numbers and to pretend that they are actually doing something about the problem.

btw cavedave ever heard of Godwins law?

round tower huntsman

Valmont wrote: »

I wouldn't introduce a scheme like this before a reduction in welfare. Trying to decrease social welfare after instituting a work-for-dole scheme would just be too hard to sell; heck, trying to sell a significant decrease full stop is going to be difficult.

reduction in welfare? i take it your not on the dole?
i worked non stop since i left school, 14 yrs plumbing/pipefitting. forced out of work. i've been applying for work in all sectors, min wage stuff industrial cleaning,storeman etc....and i cant get fcuk all. and im trying to keep a house on 240 a week and you want it reduced......GO FCUK YOURSELF.

Spudmonkey

round tower huntsman wrote: »

reduction in welfare? i take it your not on the dole?
i worked non stop since i left school, 14 yrs plumbing/pipefitting. forced out of work. i've been applying for work in all sectors, min wage stuff industrial cleaning,storeman etc....and i cant get fcuk all. and im trying to keep a house on 240 a week and you want it reduced......GO FCUK YOURSELF.

Do you think the bank will give you a loan to allow you keep the house??

goose2005

after school services, childcare, services for older people, environmental projects and in the improvement of sports and tourist facilities.

So he plans to undercut creches, care workers, cleaning companies and builders. Lovely.

Alwayson wrote: »

I'm unemployed and spend all my time trying to find work. When I do get an interview, I usually have to prepare a presentation as well. This all takes time. While I have nothing against the idea of working for the dole, if I had to work half the week on the proposed scheme, it would probably decrease my chances of getting permanent work.

19.5 hours per week of work still leaves you 92.5 hours per week for finding work - is that not enough??

patwicklow wrote: »

or maybe send them to the 5 star golf clubs to wash up after the bankers/ politicians banquets that they always have.......
well come to new age slavery.like €220 for 19 hours?? and i bet that will be taxed also, what year is this? easy know politicians dont know the price of petrol.

€11.50+ per hour is good money.

metrovelvet

I dont understand. Are they going to have people working for the government? County councils, schools, etc? Or private enterprise too?

Id fire my staff and use dole people. No salaries to pay. No prsi to pay. The government would would pay for my slave labour. And the government would have no tax revenue.

Spudmonkey

goose2005 wrote: »

€11.50+ per hour is good money.

Thats higher than minimum wage is it not? Those on €8.65 must feel like they are getting screwed!!

youcrazyjesus!

I have some reservations but IF it is organised properly it's a good idea. It will cut down on the systematic fraud pretty much everyone who works in the construction trade feels -out of approximately 20 tradesmen I've either employed, met or currently know as acquaintances in the last 2 years is working full time, being paid cash and also collecting the dole, to a man, even those I didn't know well at all happily volunteered this information almost as soon as I met them- they're entitled to commit and will reduce significantly all forms of fraud. This along with the photo ID scheme will reduce the overall dole bill could be cut by 25%. We'll lose out by not getting taxes back on that money when it's spent in the economy but it's still a huge overall saving and will generate some productivity in some.

Hand on heart I'd be delighted to work voluntarily while collecting the dole, it will give people some self respect. Being on the dole is depressing in the mid to long term. Anybody honestly looking for work will react positively to this news imo. As somebody said 500,000 unemployed is a huge resource ready to be tapped.

As long as there's some flexibility there -for example if somebody is minding their children who would otherwise employ child care services when they were working full time they shouldn't be expected to enter the scheme- I'm all for it.

Bottle_of_Smoke

They say it will include childcare/looking after old people. Garda vetting takes months for that

Adyx

caseyann wrote: »

They were warned years ago by economists and they didn't listen,just kept living high life.They didn't even have a saving plan to fall back on,which as a government they should have had in place.And you know why because they never lose out and never have to worry about a bill cause they get paid regardless.

Ordinary Irish people,so what are government gods lol
Ordinary Irish people did not have hold of purse strings of economy;)

Sounds exactly like the people who spent over their heads on property etc.

And you know what I meant about "ordinary people". I'm not saying the government are blameless but I hate this "it's all somebody else's fault" attitude.

The Raven.

Manic Moran

Alwayson does have a point. Ten hours, I could see. It's only a single long day, or two half-days. But the primary focus of a job-seeker should be seeking jobs, not doing community work.

NTM

metrovelvet

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

They say it will include childcare/looking after old people. Garda vetting takes months for that

Who's going to trust unqualified strangers with their kids?

gandalf

As I have said the devil is in the detail with this. Is it just for soundbite spin purposes or does it have some real substance. Only time will tell.