Signage in Dublin

Amtmann

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

Since when do Dublin City Council signpost anywhere? The only stick up a few route numbers on lamp posts and think that is good enough. Areas/suburbs aren't clearly marked, which leads to allot of "addresses of convenience"

I recently was helping a friend find accommodation in Dublin, driving from place to place for viewings in Rathgar, Rathmines, Stillorgan and Cowper. The lack of signage, and the prevalence of "no right turn" signs without any accompanying directional signage was absolutely infuriating. In my case Satnav wasn't available, and our map was inadequate ("no right turn" signs don't appear on maps).

Are there any plans or do any of you have any proposals to improve signage in and around Dublin?

Chris_5339762

Putting up signs would actually help!

The worst I've seen is that coming off the M50, St Lukes Hospital is signposted on the N81 as it is NRA road. You follow that road all the way into Terenure and Rathgar and have to make ONE RIGHT TURN at the correct time, once you're off the N road. It isnt signposted at all.

Cool Mo D

Signage is awful all through Dublin City. And the signs that do exist are completely rubbish. Even of the major arterial roads were just signed clearly at important junctions it would be a million times better.

BrianD

Signage in Dublin in universally dreadful. I have been in few cities that have been so badly. Not only that what they do put up is wasteful and badly positioned.

Take for example the recent car park directional signs that went up. All positioned applaingly for drivers (must have been a non driver who decided to place them), they are in all shapes and sizes and lack consistency. What can't we have a series of large signs that show the locatiosn of a number of parking areas.

The VMS's are dreadful and badly positioned and updated. It takes local knowledge to know that the lists of place and numbers are references to car parks. It then takes local knowledge to find them as there are no signposts!

The Samuel Beckett bridge was dropped into the city last year and I can only find a single finger post that points to it. I believe that the bridge is part of a cross city road incorporating the North Circular road but there is not a single signed route that would help drivers with this. No wonder there was controversy when it opened as nobody knows for sure who and what its serving.

I don't believe that either of our mainline rail stations are signed and both the airport and ferriy sigage lacks continuity.

It almost seems that DCC are afraid to put up sign posts and directional signs. Small village mentality. We live in a city we need these signs and the bigger the better! They also need to give up on the orbital routes with their microscopic signs. Nobody knows what they are and how to follow them. Give us signs that conform with the laws.

Empire o de Sun

Furet wrote: »

I recently was helping a friend find accommodation in Dublin, driving from place to place for viewings in Rathgar, Rathmines, Stillorgan and Cowper. The lack of signage, and the prevalence of "no right turn" signs without any accompanying directional signage was absolutely infuriating. In my case Satnav wasn't available, and our map was inadequate ("no right turn" signs don't appear on maps).

Are there any plans or do any of you have any proposals to improve signage in and around Dublin?

I did this before in another thread




this would be a start.

irishdub14

Pretty dreadful alright, but they have recently put up new signs in Baldoyle, Sutton, and Howth, just like above without the blue road signage. Haven't seen any new signs anywhere else though...

Empire o de Sun

irishdub14 wrote: »

Pretty dreadful alright, but they have recently put up new signs in Baldoyle, Sutton, and Howth, just like above without the blue road signage. Haven't seen any new signs anywhere else though...

These signs are all in Fingal CoCos area, not in Dublin City Council area.

Sulmac

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

These signs are all in Fingal CoCos area, not in Dublin City Council area.

I have to say that Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council also do a good job within regards to road signage, especially compared to the City Council.

edit: Here's a link to Fingal County Council's website showing their regional road signage scheme.

BrianD

Sulmac wrote: »

I have to say that Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council also do a good job within regards to road signage, especially compared to the City Council.

edit: Here's a link to Fingal County Council's website showing their regional road signage scheme.

Except for their speed limit signage. Dreadful - some of it allows you to legally increase speed when approaching traffic lights on the N11 from tributary roads.

It seems that DCC wants to maintain little village style thinking and won't erect any kind of signage - roadside or overhead - that would give the impression of being in an urban space especially one that is a capital city. I believe that Dublin Bus has had difficulty in erecting bus shelters in the city centre due to DCC being unable to come to terms with modern street furniture. Unfortunately, this "twee" approach that effects signage is the least of our worries. We have a council that is afraid of high buildings and decent urban planning. It's a city, not a village of the 17th century!

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

Empire o de Sun

Something that clearly defines area boundaries is needed. there is nothing to tell you where you are in Dublin,



This is how they do it in Germany. Similar signs exist in other countries. it would stop "addresses of convenience"
"no I live in X-town, not Y-town...."

Zoney

BrianD wrote: »

Except for their speed limit signage. Dreadful - some of it allows you to legally increase speed when approaching traffic lights on the N11 from tributary roads.

It seems that DCC wants to maintain little village style thinking and won't erect any kind of signage - roadside or overhead - that would give the impression of being in an urban space especially one that is a capital city. I believe that Dublin Bus has had difficulty in erecting bus shelters in the city centre due to DCC being unable to come to terms with modern street furniture. Unfortunately, this "twee" approach that effects signage is the least of our worries. We have a council that is afraid of high buildings and decent urban planning. It's a city, not a village of the 17th century!

Actually it's not as simple as just "fixing the problems". The way things are in Dublin do contribute to the positives despite the drawbacks.

What is needed is to reconcile the two opposites: neither remain stuck in the 17th C as you put it, or drag the city kicking and screaming into the 21st century to become just yet another faceless urban maze.

As regards high rise for example, I think the current thinking, of having clusters of high rise in some locations, is the way to go - they just need to get going with it and put a proper framework in place to decide the appropriate areas (i.e. in order that more can be added in future, what the rules would be for such areas expanding, etc.) By contrast I don't think simply blanket allowing high-rise in the city centre would actually be a net positive.

Getting on topic with street signage, I think some kind of compromise or different thinking is needed. For example, using just road numbers (no placenames) at some tight/urban junctions, and coming up with standard abbreviations for some longer Dublin placenames (e.g. Dun L'aire) and use Irish only for some names that the anglicisation is very similar anyway (e.g. Dún Droma, Sord, Stigh Lorgan, Baile Munna) in order to avoid having Irish and English.

BrianD

Zoney wrote: »

Actually it's not as simple as just "fixing the problems". The way things are in Dublin do contribute to the positives despite the drawbacks.

What is needed is to reconcile the two opposites: neither remain stuck in the 17th C as you put it, or drag the city kicking and screaming into the 21st century to become just yet another faceless urban maze.

As regards high rise for example, I think the current thinking, of having clusters of high rise in some locations, is the way to go - they just need to get going with it and put a proper framework in place to decide the appropriate areas (i.e. in order that more can be added in future, what the rules would be for such areas expanding, etc.) By contrast I don't think simply blanket allowing high-rise in the city centre would actually be a net positive.

Getting on topic with street signage, I think some kind of compromise or different thinking is needed. For example, using just road numbers (no placenames) at some tight/urban junctions, and coming up with standard abbreviations for some longer Dublin placenames (e.g. Dun L'aire) and use Irish only for some names that the anglicisation is very similar anyway (e.g. Dún Droma, Sord, Stigh Lorgan, Baile Munna) in order to avoid having Irish and English.

Unfortunately, what is going to happen is because our elected representatives haven't the balls to tackle the issue is that we'll have high rises popping all over the place.

I would support the clustering of very high rise buildings as proposed but I think the current guidelines outside of these areas are too low. We should be going for 8-10 stories without question within the canals and along sustainable transport routes.

The proof of how bad things are is that despite the building boom we have no iconic buildings in the city. The Clarence revamp has the potential to become an icon but see how everyone is running for cover on that one.

Back to signage. If they just intoduced the signs a prescribed by the DoE we'd be doing fine for a start.

Del2005

The thing which annoys me about road signs and the lack of road signs, it's not just in Dublin. Is that at the (main) road you have direction signs telling you where to go. You follow this sign and sometimes within 50m you come to another junction and you have to guess which way.

Road-Hog

Del2005 wrote: »

The thing which annoys me about road signs and the lack of road signs, it's not just in Dublin. Is that at the (main) road you have direction signs telling you where to go. You follow this sign and sometimes within 50m you come to another junction and you have to guess which way.

If in doubt at an unsigned junction then surely the obvious thing to do is go stragiht through it.........??

Davidth88

Actually since moving to Ireland ( from UK ) 9 yrs ago the problem I see is TOO MUCH signage

You see myriads of little finger signs ( half of which have twisted in the wind ) pointing all sorts of silly little things . The worst culprits for this is the brown signs pointing to pubs or whatever.

Del2005

Road-Hog wrote: »

If in doubt at an unsigned junction then surely the obvious thing to do is go stragiht through it.........??

What about a T junction? The whole point of direction signs is that they are supposed to direct you where you want to go, not the next junction!

Empire o de Sun

Here is what I'd like to see to clearly define areas in Dublin, and other places in Ireland where towns/villages are clustered together.



So as you pass you can see that you are leaving Kilbarrack and entering coolock.

irishdub14

Great Idea, but doesn't Raheny border Coolock to the East?

Empire o de Sun

irishdub14 wrote: »

Great Idea, but doesn't Raheny border Coolock to the East?

I dunno where the borders are! Do you?

It's just a sample.

Ernest

I keep seeing suburban road direction signs pointing to "Coolock"as a destination but never to Raheny or Sutton or Killester. These three are real actual places in the sense of identifiable visible villages but Coolock is more an area or a district perhaps even a former village now bypassed by all main roads. So why to the road direction signs always mention Coolock??? Laziness on the part of Council officials?
Of course I have to agree with the point that there is a general lack of signage especially at key junctions in the city centre where drivers have to make decisions on which way to turn. Examples are too numerous to mention.

Road-Hog

Del2005 wrote: »

What about a T junction? The whole point of direction signs is that they are supposed to direct you where you want to go, not the next junction!

Agreed you need something at a T junction but where do you draw the line with signage. Should there be a sign on every street/regional road and L road informing people how to get to every possible destination?

Del2005

Road-Hog wrote: »

Agreed you need something at a T junction but where do you draw the line with signage. Should there be a sign on every street/regional road and L road informing people how to get to every possible destination?

If there's a sign saying go this way to reach X . Then they should have signs on all junctions till you reach X.

Plenty of countries have sign-age that works it's not rocket science or anything new we need to invent. It's just a typical Irish attitude. "Sure everyone knows you go right after Tom's house to reach Ballygoback".

Empire o de Sun

Ernest wrote: »

I keep seeing suburban road direction signs pointing to "Coolock"as a destination but never to Raheny or Sutton or Killester. These three are real actual places in the sense of identifiable visible villages but Coolock is more an area or a district perhaps even a former village now bypassed by all main roads. So why to the road direction signs always mention Coolock??? Laziness on the part of Council officials?
Of course I have to agree with the point that there is a general lack of signage especially at key junctions in the city centre where drivers have to make decisions on which way to turn. Examples are too numerous to mention.

Coolock is a village, it was bypassed in the 60's. It's near the cadbury Factory.

spacetweek

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

I dunno where the borders are! Do you?

It's just a sample.

Do those places even have borders between them??

I really like your Coolock/Kilbarrack signage idea. I've lived in Dublin 31 years and still have no idea where the hell I'm going in the place half the time.

Carawaystick

spacetweek wrote: »

Do those places even have borders between them??

I really like your Coolock/Kilbarrack signage idea. I've lived in Dublin 31 years and still have no idea where the hell I'm going in the place half the time.

You just define borders if there are none.
It stops suburb creep (like Glasnevin now taking over Ballymun)

Empire o de Sun

Carawaystick wrote: »

It stops suburb creep (like Glasnevin now taking over Ballymun)

Exactly!!

I think Santry is coming in from the east too.

dubhthach

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

Here is what I'd like to see to clearly define areas in Dublin, and other places in Ireland where towns/villages are clustered together.



So as you pass you can see that you are leaving Kilbarrack and entering coolock.

Good idea, I can see some people's noses been put out of joint. For example plenty of property advertised on Daft/Myhome as Sandymount when it's actually in Irishtown (check townland boundaries on Ordance Survey)

BrianD

Moving slightly out of the city to the M50. The new N3 junction signage has no reference to the M3 (not even in brackets) and the destination is signed Cavan. As far as I recall the destination of the N3 (M3) is supposed to be Ballyshannon. Also when on the M3 there is no signage for the Pace P+R only some tacked on little signs that would are of little use to anyone. One would have thought that this major rail project would have been properly signed. The road itself is not open that long.

Jayuu

BrianD wrote: »

Moving slightly out of the city to the M50. The new N3 junction signage has no reference to the M3 (not even in brackets) and the destination is signed Cavan. As far as I recall the destination of the N3 (M3) is supposed to be Ballyshannon. Also when on the M3 there is no signage for the Pace P+R only some tacked on little signs that would are of little use to anyone. One would have thought that this major rail project would have been properly signed. The road itself is not open that long.

There's also an inconsistency in the signage for Blanchardstown at the N3 junction of the M50.

According to the sign you should take the N3(M3) exit to get to Blanchardstown. However this brings you onto the N3 beyond Blanchardstown and then you have to take the next exit to get off the N3 and go back into the village.

However if you continue on up to the roundabout you can access Blanchardstown village directly by going around the roundabout and then taking the left lane as you emerge onto the N3. The crazy thing is the the sign approaching the roundabout also has Blanchardstown on it.

It would have made much more sense for the N3(M3) exit to saw "Cavan/Navan" or "Ballyshannon/Cavan" and put the local traffic up to the roundabout.

Absurdum

Even more annoying imo is when they go too far and plonk signs on roundabouts which block your view



for example as you approach the roundabout, your view to the right is obscured by a sign

MADMAN2010

Actually, I know a great sign company that could improve the situation.
<<--snip-->>
If only Dublin City council would use their 'brians'......

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