College Computers

Plebs

Surely the poor performance public access machines are now irrelevant?

Should every student should have their own laptop at this stage? The cost of maintaining a couple of hundred machines must be ridiculous.

stesh

Plebs wrote: »

Surely the poor performance public access machines are now irrelevant?

Should every student should have their own laptop at this stage? The cost of maintaining a couple of hundred machines must be ridiculous.

Sadly, not everyone can afford their own laptop. Furthermore, a lot of software which is required in many courses is obtained by College through special licensing agreements with respective companies, which could otherwise be prohibitively expensive for individual students.

The labs are often used by specific classes for teaching too.

As for 'poor performance', I've personally found ISS machines to be fine for most purposes. They're kept reasonably up-to-date in terms of software and replaced often.

Plebs

stesh wrote: »

Sadly, not everyone can afford their own laptop. Furthermore, a lot of software which is required in many courses is obtained by College through special licensing agreements with respective companies, which could otherwise be prohibitively expensive for individual students.

The labs are often used by specific classes for teaching too.

As for 'poor performance', I've personally found ISS machines to be fine for most purposes. They're kept reasonably up-to-date in terms of software and replaced often.

Software such as???

Fad

Plebs wrote: »

Software such as???

Mathematica

Plebs

Fad wrote: »

Mathematica

Surely the maths department have their own lab for that? (the same way Electronic Engineering have MATLAB in the labs, Mech Eng have SolidWorks, Music have Sibelius, etc.).

Or if it's so critical to your education you could pay the €128 Mathematica student licence so you can work away from people laughing their heads off at the latest stupid youtube video or sniggering at a Facebook "status update".

Then again, what's wrong with Sage?

amacachi

*YAWN*

stesh

Plebs wrote: »

Software such as???

Mathematica, DreamWeaver, Photoshop, SPSS, Lisrel, Maple, Microsoft Office, Apple iWork, EndNote, ISIS, ArcGIS, Microsoft Visual Studio, to name a few.

stesh

Plebs wrote: »

Surely the maths department have their own lab for that? (the same way Electronic Engineering have MATLAB in the labs, Mech Eng have SolidWorks, Music have Sibelius, etc.).

Or if it's so critical to your education you could pay the €128 Mathematica student licence so you can work away from people laughing their heads off at the latest stupid youtube video or sniggering at a Facebook "status update".

Then again, what's wrong with Sage?

If you have the luxury of €128 to spend on a mathematica license.

Plebs

stesh wrote: »

Mathematica, DreamWeaver, Photoshop, SPSS, Lisrel, Maple, Microsoft Office, Apple iWork, EndNote, ISIS, ArcGIS, Microsoft Visual Studio, to name a few.

Corporate productivity solutions are not necessary to earn a degree.

Kwekubo

Plebs wrote: »

Corporate productivity solutions are not necessary to earn a degree.

Nor are chapels, green spaces or gowns. So?

antiselfdual

stesh wrote: »

If you have the luxury of €128 to spend on a mathematica license.

You can get it for free from ISS actually.

If they got rid of all the "poor performance public access machines", then they would have to find a different way of ensuring every student has computer and internet access. Even for courses where you don't use computers much, you still need access to print out lecture slides or whatever. The main problem is that not all students have money. I got a laptop at the start of the summer and I can tell you that in my financial situation it was not an easy task. The college could not possibly put the pressure on every student to have their own laptop. It would be ridiculous.

Another problem is that if you take away college computers then you can't use the "well there are college computers" reply when a student is missing an essay or report or couldn't do adequate research for a certain project. Loads of people would take advantage of this. The college would have to have an alternative to every computer dependent aspect of college, right down to waiting long enough after every lecture slide for non-laptop owners to take it down by hand.

In the long run it's far easier to supply college computers and be done with it.

Plebs

true-or-false wrote: »

If they got rid of all the "poor performance public access machines", then they would have to find a different way of ensuring every student has computer and internet access. Even for courses where you don't use computers much, you still need access to print out lecture slides or whatever. The main problem is that not all students have money. I got a laptop at the start of the summer and I can tell you that in my financial situation it was not an easy task. The college could not possibly put the pressure on every student to have their own laptop. It would be ridiculous.

We're at the stage now where personal computing is a necessary part of one's education. Seamless access to the web is a necessity, the same way as paying for the bus/DART/LUAS to be physically present at lectures is a necessity (although Bill Gates has lots to say about physical presence).

true-or-false wrote: »

Another problem is that if you take away college computers then you can't use the "well there are college computers" reply when a student is missing an essay or report or couldn't do adequate research for a certain project. Loads of people would take advantage of this. The college would have to have an alternative to every computer dependent aspect of college, right down to waiting long enough after every lecture slide for non-laptop owners to take it down by hand.

There's no such thing as free education. Tapping in to the hardship if you can't afford a €300 computer is no big deal. And besides, there are many advantages to having 24 hour access to computing resources over having to queue up in a stuffy arts block only to have your head wrecked with the noise.

true-or-false wrote: »

In the long run it's far easier to supply college computers and be done with it.

That's debatable. A nice croquet lawn/tennis court/frisbee area on the site of the lazer huts would represent progress IMO.

Plebs

Kwekubo wrote: »

Nor are chapels, green spaces or gowns. So?

Might as well knock down the bell towers and change the semantic sense of college "park" (I'm thinking motor vehicles) while we're at it.

Gowns incidentally serve a purpose.

snappieT

College computer are necessary. Having them in disgusting prefabs is not OK.

The problem with the college computers is that they're not locked down enough, and people install muck onto them (I've yet to logon to a machine in the laser huts that didn't have Limewire installed). If they just scheduled each computer to be re-imaged every night/week, it would actually be grand.

stesh

Plebs wrote: »

Corporate productivity solutions are not necessary to earn a degree.

Actually, most software which is purchased by ISS is there specifically because it is used in the curricula of various courses.

tabouli

Plebs wrote: »

There's no such thing as free education. Tapping in to the hardship if you can't afford a €300 computer is no big deal.

I'm not quite sure if that was a serious remark, but the student hardship fund is there for students that are genuinely stuck for money. Not because someone wants a new laptop. That's a sickening attitude to have tbh.

Plebs

tabouli wrote: »

I'm not quite sure if that was a serious remark, but the student hardship fund is there for students that are genuinely stuck for money. Not because someone wants a new laptop. That's a sickening attitude to have tbh.

It's as if you're on the hunt for examples of "sickening attitude" so you can spew a load of self-righteous disdain.

I'm not going to be forced into denying your pathetic charges.

stesh

Plebs wrote: »

It's as if you're on the hunt for examples of "sickening attitude" so you can spew a load of self-righteous disdain.

I'm not going to be forced into denying your pathetic charges.

Your post about student hardship borders on mockery. That's pretty sickening.

Plebs

stesh wrote: »

Your post about student hardship borders on mockery

Really? Mockery? Why would I mock a student because they're hard-up? I didn't and I don't. There. You've got your denial. Isn't that what you want?

You're way off topic at this stage. So do you have anything to add to the discussion regarding the abolishment of public access machines?

Plebs

Plebs wrote: »

We're at the stage now where personal computing is a necessary part of one's education. Seamless access to the web is a necessity, the same way as paying for the bus/DART/LUAS to be physically present at lectures is a necessity (although Bill Gates has lots to say about physical presence).


There's no such thing as free education. Tapping in to the hardship if you can't afford a €300 computer is no big deal. And besides, there are many advantages to having 24 hour access to computing resources over having to queue up in a stuffy arts block only to have your head wrecked with the noise.

I totally agree that computing is a necessary part of one's education. That's what the existing public access computers are for. As for paying for the bus/dart/luas being necessary, I agree again, it is. That's why people who can't afford it like me get grants from the government to cover it. If you're suggesting that the necessary laptop costs be treated the same as the necessary transport costs, then I suppose that means that laptop costs should be covered by the grant. This would mean that:

a) student grants would have to be increased by €300-€500 to allow for laptop purchase/maintenance (this isn't even including software that needs to be bought). So you and the tax-paying public will be footing the bill for the laptops needed for me and everyone else in or below my income bracket, in which case thanks for your generosity.

b) the means testing for the student grant would have to be slackened to allow for not just people who cant afford transport and day to day costs but also to people who cant afford all that plus a laptop. This would be far more people getting the student grant and again it would be coming out of your taxes.

So basically far more people will be getting grants which would in turn would contain far more money. I'm not sure the public would see the great sense behind losing college computers for the sake of personal laptops. Maybe you should just save us all the trouble and buy every student of Trinity a laptop yourself??

Plebs

true-or-false wrote: »

I totally agree that computing is a necessary part of one's education. That's what the existing public access computers are for. As for paying for the bus/dart/luas being necessary, I agree again, it is. That's why people who can't afford it like me get grants from the government to cover it. If you're suggesting that the necessary laptop costs be treated the same as the necessary transport costs, then I suppose that means that laptop costs should be covered by the grant. This would mean that:

a) student grants would have to be increased by €300-€500 to allow for laptop purchase/maintenance (this isn't even including software that needs to be bought). So you and the tax-paying public will be footing the bill for the laptops needed for me and everyone else in or below my income bracket, in which case thanks for your generosity.

b) the means testing for the student grant would have to be slackened to allow for not just people who cant afford transport and day to day costs but also to people who cant afford all that plus a laptop. This would be far more people getting the student grant and again it would be coming out of your taxes.

So basically far more people will be getting grants which would in turn would contain far more money. I'm not sure the public would see the great sense behind losing college computers for the sake of personal laptops. Maybe you should just save us all the trouble and buy every student of Trinity a laptop yourself??

A ridiculous suggestion. The rest of your post is somewhat reasonable.

The administrative ins-and-outs of ensuring that all students have their own personal computer is not rocket science. Smurfit Business School have the requirement for several years now.

A compulsory computer could essentially be seen as an increase on the registration charge or the cost of going to college. If the college could save €X a year by abolishing the maintenance and support of the public access machine infrastructure, then so be it. The State isn't going to help improve the College's financial situation any time soon and less dependence on the State for money is a good thing IMO. Saving money by getting rid of "unnecessary" (it's still an open question) computing facilities is a step in this direction.

andrew

3/10 for trolling OP. You're alright, but you're no Denerick.

dan719

Plebs wrote: »

The administrative ins-and-outs of ensuring that all students have their own personal computer is not rocket science. Smurfit Business School have the requirement for several years now.

I hope you are not suggesting we follow the example of such a second rate educational establishment! I mean, that "school" and I use the term lightly, isn't even four hundred years old! :eek::p

charmer

Couldn't be bothered feeding the troll.

IBTL

Groinshot

stesh wrote: »

If you have the luxury of €128 to spend on a mathematica license.

Facts would be appreciated.See this link http://www.tcd.ie/iss/training/student_software.php
and read the mathematica bit. It's free. For mac and PC. If you have a CS login, use the ones outside the hamilton, the two story prefabs. Top floor are better, noone in them ever

stesh

Groinshot wrote: »

Facts would be appreciated.See this link http://www.tcd.ie/iss/training/student_software.php
and read the mathematica bit. It's free. For mac and PC. If you have a CS login, use the ones outside the hamilton, the two story prefabs. Top floor are better, noone in them ever

PC Huts. *shudder*.

ED E

stesh wrote: »

PC Huts. *shudder*.

Interesting that I should accidentally click on your sig. Enjoy EP with Mr. Reichental:p

Groinshot

so instead of not paying to mainttain the pc's, and buying 500 pc's at 4-500 squids, they should spend 4000x500 every year on substandard fees. if you can afford broadband, you can afford a laptop.

whats wrong with pc huts

Laserhead

If the college already has the public computers in place, there's little point in telling each student to get his own. Though if they were required, they'd probably copy the scheme up at NUI Galway, partnering with a manufacturer to get a cheaper rate. I believe it came preloaded with the software too.

Groinshot

The college don't tell us that we should have laptops, or that we need laptops. We don't need laptops. Thejre's 24 hour access to computers on campus, so if you want to work, then you can work. it's all for convenience. and also, We do have manafacturers schemes, Dell and Apple...

ED E

Groinshot wrote: »

The college don't tell us that we should have laptops...

True for most degrees, but not all;)

Jammyc

Its been suggested on here before but, they should stop buying windows machines for the standing computers. Putting linux on these would save a good bitta money on windows licences.

Granted that they can't do this for all computers because of compatibility with programs used by specific depts. but for the most part there would be no issue with browsing the net for people who have never used linux.

vladglenin

Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen... The troll has either left or has lost interest in this thread. The mods should just lock this as it's just the same points made over and over again. Also, Groinshot seems to be about to lash into personal insults, which might I add is not allowed on this forum.

Tar.Aldarion

He was banned from the site.

Groinshot

Meh, the windows OEM licences aren't that expensive, and I'd assume buying them in ulk that the college would get them cheaper again, and seeing as they don't buy them every year, it's not THAT much money really...
And Vladglenin, would you ever shut up ya complete wank3r