Anybody else find this ridiculous?

-Chris-

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle.aspx?AR=252443

Toyota launches 'noisy' Prius
Toyota is to fit Prius models in Japan with a noise-making device to warn pedestrians of the car's presence.


The Prius is near-silent at low speeds and has attracted criticism from pedestrians who are unaware of it approaching. The ‘on-board approaching vehicle audible system’ will initially only be available in Japan, where earlier this year the government issued guidelines on hybrid noise; it will cost 12,600 yen (£100).

The sound comes from a speaker mounted under the bonnet, and will vary in pitch relative to the speed of the car to help indicate the vehicle’s proximity and movement.

Groups representing blind people have led calls for regulations on noise, requiring manufacturers to add a sound that would alert cyclists and pedestrians alike.


Last year a study by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in the US found that hybrids were twice as likely to be involved in a pedestrian accident as conventional cars.

When Nissan launches its electric Leaf next year, it will equip it as standard with a turbine sound akin to an aeroplane taking off. The device will only work at speeds up to 30mph; at higher speeds tyre and aerodynamic noise will be sufficiently loud.


Rules regarding the noise of electric and hybrid vehicles are also expected to be introduced in the US and Europe.

:rolleyes:

thenightrider

Have they nevr heard of a horn

af_thefragile

What's worse than a whoosing prius?
A shrieking prius!!!

Though it would be cool if you could chose what sound it makes. Then you can make it sound space ship sounds or maybe an Aston Martin V8 sound...

Merch

sounds quite reasonable to me, heard of it mentioned a few times.
Can hardly go blasting away on the horn as you drive around all the time

Voodoomelon

I'd rig an MP3 player to the speaker, and play forumla 1 engine sounds out of it.

kingbrumak

Hmmmmm..... I'm not sure about anyone else on here but the last thing I would want is to draw peoples attention to the fact that I'm approaching in a Prius :rolleyes:

langdang

af_thefragile wrote: »

Though it would be cool if you could chose what sound it makes. Then you can make it sound space ship sounds or maybe an Aston Martin V8 sound...

A while back they had this on morning ireland*, had different samples you could choose - the woomwoomwoom "antigravity" spaceship noise was the best...


*it was Lotus engineers working on it, Lotus website seems to have dropped the links, but google still has them - search for Lotus electric vehicle noise


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_warning_sounds

thenightrider

You only need to blast the horn if people are in the way on the road any way peolpe should not be walking on the road and any one on a bike should be in to the side of the road so cars can get by

MetzgerMeister

We have the same kind of thing here...a speaker in the engine bay that plays a dump-valve noise 2 seconds after a gearchange

Gophur

They're not called "The Silent Killer", for nothing!!!

MetzgerMeister

Gophur wrote: »

They're not called "The Silent Killer", for nothing!!!

Even though they don't use "gas" :pac:

blastman

They're talking about fitting a similar system to the Nissan Leaf when it launches here.

Cookie_Monster

And just wait for the headline in some rag or other

"New Prius causes increased noise pollution"

It is ridiculous and deserves: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Matt Simis

I was rolling behind some pedestrians the other day and joked that in a hybrid they would have no idea I was behind them. Yes its lame Hybrid's need something additional to make noise, but I dont find the idea ridiculous at all, seems to be a requirement of the design IMO.

Cookie_Monster

Matt Simis wrote: »

I was rolling behind some pedestrians the other day and joked that in a hybrid they would have no idea I was behind them. Yes its lame Hybrid's need something additional to make noise, but I dont find the idea ridiculous at all, seems to be a requirement of the design IMO.

so what about in 20 years when we are all supposed to be driving elecs anyway, will they all need to have noise makers added just to appease a few blind people & what not?

2 Espressi

I'll take mine with a faux-8 soundtrack, please...

nice1franko

FTW

Matt Simis

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so what about in 20 years when we are all supposed to be driving elecs anyway, will they all need to have noise makers added just to appease a few blind people & what not?

Yes, but not just "a few blind people", everyone who isnt looking backwards and sideways when walking.
All this does is equalise the burden of awareness between the car and the pedestrian, like it has been for the last 100 years (and thousands before with horses). With silent cars, its very easy for someone to not be aware of a car outside their FOV (or in the spot they had just checked) and it would be completely the drivers fault were they to hit them.
Come on, think of kids and such too.

Dunno why this upsets you so much.

Cookie_Monster

Matt Simis wrote: »

Yes, but not just "a few blind people", everyone who isnt looking backwards and sideways when walking.

people need to take responsibility for themselves though, stuff like this only makes that less likely. If you walk across a road without looking you deserve to get squashed for being a ****ing moron (and get handed a Darwin award too )

Stevie Dakota

Any road user or pedestrian that makes a move on or onto the road relaying on hearing alone deserves what they get frankly. Just how much stupidity do we have to legislate for?

-Chris-

Thinking about it, I'd want my Prius to play Ride of the Valkeries everywhere I went.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz3Cc7wlfkI

or I might be tempted by the Imperial Death March

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzntZLHcYy0

although then I'd have to change the horn noise so it either made Darth Vader's breathing noise or it played "Luke, I am your father" when I pushed the horn. Also, I'd want the indicators to make Light Saber noises...

Matt Simis

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

people need to take responsibility for themselves though, stuff like this only makes that less likely. If you walk across a road without looking you deserve to get squashed for being a ****ing moron (and get handed a Darwin award too )

A, thats stupid. B, we are talking about hearing here. Its a sense too and subconciously you use it to cross roads too. Bear in mind thats what the basis of a car horn is, its an audible warning, as is the sound of an engine. Its completely natural to expect be able to hear an approaching 1ton+ hunk of metal at speed. Or do you think its ok to whizz around in silence, for the benefit of what... absolutely nothing?

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

Any road user or pedestrian that makes a move on or onto the road relaying on hearing alone deserves what they get frankly. Just how much stupidity do we have to legislate for?

Again, thats another kneejerk reaction. At what point did anyone suggest crossing the road based on hearing alone? Being able to hear is not "stupid".


Are you two against the idea of engine noises in your current cars, cos it makes it just too easy on pedestrians?
This is like the confused arguments on why DRLs "are bad". Noise and lights have effectively zero impact on the car and driver, a rare occurance where a dramatic safety bonus costs nothing. But lets get upset anyhow. :rolleyes:

Davidth88

You may scoff , but this is a serious consideration

I have nearly been knocked down by a Prius myself .

I live in a cul-de sac , I was out watching my child , and to be honest watching the children and LISTENING for cars , next thing I know there is a Prius sitting 3 ft away from me , gave me a start TBH ( I wasn't in danger the car was only doing 5 mph or thereabouts )

It's surprising how much you rely on your hearing .

This is why listening to MP3 players on bikes and while crossing roads is a bad idea .

af_thefragile

einheisserschre wrote: »

We have the same kind of thing here...a speaker in the engine bay that plays a dump-valve noise 2 seconds after a gearchange

Or you could get this thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEJpmo1rryM

Skip to 4:45 to get to what I'm talking about...

Cookie_Monster

Matt Simis wrote: »

Are you two against the idea of engine noises in your current cars, cos it makes it just too easy on pedestrians?

any noise from cars be it engine or otherwise is just wasted energy, just like heat. it serves no purpose and everything possible should be done to eliminate it. Better for you cos the car will be more efficient, better for society as less pollution, both directly: less noise and indirectly less fuel used so better air quality and so forth

Davidth88

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Exactly, if you walk across the road without looking then its really your own fault if you get hit.

When it nearly happened to me I was already in the road .

When you are out ' playing ' like that you use all your senses , but critically you expect to hear cars as well as see them.

After all the car may be around the corner.

It's difficult enough to teach your kids road sense without silent cars TBH

Matt Simis

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

any noise from cars be it engine or otherwise is just wasted energy, just like heat. it serves no purpose and everything possible should be done to eliminate it. Better for you cos the car will be more efficient, better for society as less pollution, both directly: less noise and indirectly less fuel used so better air quality and so forth

I for you.
So the entire basis of your argument that (for example) Davidth88 deserved to be run down and possibly killed (or his/her kids) is the, lets guess here, 1w of energy cost of a minor noise generator?

Now take a second before jumping on this, are you seriously saying the near zero "cost" of generating a noise vs injuring or killing someone or their kids is "better for society". And that anyone that gets hit by a car they were unaware of deserves to be killed? Lol right.
Loosing about 500g of fat as a car occument would likely "save" as much fuel.

Davidth88

Matt Simis wrote: »

I for you.
So the entire basis of your argument that (for example) Davidth88 deserved to be run down and possibly killed (or his/her kids) is the, lets guess here, 1w of energy cost of a minor noise generator?

Now take a second before jumping on this, are you seriously saying the near zero "cost" of generating a noise vs injuring or killing someone or their kids is "better for society".
Loosing about 500g of fat as a car occument would likely "save" as much fuel.

His Child

Thanks my point precisely ......

If you are of limited eye sight also

Mycroft H

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enF0m6J7g2

Even a deaf person would hear it :pac:

Anan1

Matt Simis wrote: »

Or do you think its ok to whizz around in silence, for the benefit of what... absolutely nothing?

Safety issues aside I think that'd be great. Noise making devices are, IMO, a necessary evil.

-Chris-

The first time I drove a Prius, within about 50 meters, someone walked out in front of me.

I beeped, they got out of my way.

If you're doing slow speed, the car is silent, but you have plenty of reaction time and you're not really doing enough speed to cause major carnage anyway.
If you're accellerating hard or trying to go quicker, the petrol engine kicks in to help and you're making noise.
If you're already going fast enough, your tyre & wind noise will make you audible.

There are only certain specific instances where the car is silent, and in these instances they present relatively little danger to those around them as long as the driver is alert and the pedestrian is sensible.

Ali Babba

No doubt the greens will have issues over the noise factor if they go ahead with this.:rolleyes:

Anan1

Ali Babba wrote: »

No doubt the greens will have issues over the noise factor if they go ahead with this.:rolleyes:

Why?

Davidth88

-Chris- wrote: »

The first time I drove a Prius, within about 50 meters, someone walked out in front of me.

I beeped, they got out of my way.

If you're doing slow speed, the car is silent, but you have plenty of reaction time and you're not really doing enough speed to cause major carnage anyway.

Yes indeed that's exactly what happened to me . Now think of this maybe in a busy city centre ( think driving into Fleet St car park ) the pedestrians are all over the place and possibly the worse for wear ( this is Temple Bar after all ) ... and you the driver have never been there before and you are looking for the entrance ...... bang

Yes almost certainly not fatal , but I bet it would sting a bit !

Stevie Dakota

Davidth88 wrote: »

You may scoff , but this is a serious consideration

I'm not scoffing. To all those people who have got a fright from a Prius, a cyclist or whatever, it was because you didn't look, no-one to blame but yourselves. Of course no-one wants to see anyone hurt, especially kids, hence you teach them to look and listen all the way across the road. People get hit by cars because they don't take the correct safety measures, nothing to do with how much noise the vehicle was making when it hit you.

Anan1

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

People get hit by cars because they don't take the correct safety measures, nothing to do with how much noise the vehicle was making when it hit you.

But people don't always look, and those people are more likely to be hit by near-silent cars.

djimi

-Chris- wrote: »

The first time I drove a Prius, within about 50 meters, someone walked out in front of me.

I beeped, they got out of my way.

If you're doing slow speed, the car is silent, but you have plenty of reaction time and you're not really doing enough speed to cause major carnage anyway.
If you're accellerating hard or trying to go quicker, the petrol engine kicks in to help and you're making noise.
If you're already going fast enough, your tyre & wind noise will make you audible.

There are only certain specific instances where the car is silent, and in these instances they present relatively little danger to those around them as long as the driver is alert and the pedestrian is sensible.

Thats a pretty big "if" to be fair...

Stevie Dakota

Anan1 wrote: »

But people don't always look, and those people are more likely to be hit by near-silent cars.

Or cyclists of which there are far more, must we have noise generating devices on them too?

Legislating for idiots is a waste of resources.

_Kaiser_

-Chris- wrote: »

Thinking about it, I'd want my Prius to play Ride of the Valkeries everywhere I went.

or I might be tempted by the Imperial Death March

No no no.. you want it to sound like KITT/KARR from the original Knight Rider

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eia4Yk-67A

although then I'd have to change the horn noise so it either made Darth Vader's breathing noise or it played "Luke, I am your father" when I pushed the horn. Also, I'd want the indicators to make Light Saber noises...

Reminded me of a mate of mine who had his PC setup in work with all the Star Wars effects. When you clicked the Shut Down button, Obi Wan would say "If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!"

Davidth88

Anan1 wrote: »

But people don't always look, and those people are more likely to be hit by near-silent cars.

Hang on , where I am talking about is a cul de sac , where you have kids playing and poor saps of adults watching over them ( me )

You are not watching constantly for cars , you are AWARE of your surroundings using ALL your senses , including hearing .

In these circumstances hearing is important. Actually in my case the cul de sac is a U shaped road , and the car came around the corner , you usually use your sense of hearing .

When crossing the road , that's a different matter TBH, and actually I would whole heartedly agree with you

Now at no time was I in any real danger , but it made me feel foolish , esp as I am busy teaching my child road sense and I get caught out myself !

it only dawned on my afterwards why I was caught out .

Matt Simis

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

Or cyclists of which there are far more, must we have noise generating devices on them too?

Legislating for idiots is a waste of resources.

Thats a poor analogy. 1ton car vs Bike? Aside from weight and speed difference, a bike is more nimble and can do more to avoid a wayward pedestrian. A cyclist is more likely to be looking out for such obstacles too, given their own vulnerability.

Cookie_Monster

Matt Simis wrote: »

Thats a poor analogy. 1ton car vs Bike? Aside from weight and speed difference, a bike is more nimble and can do more to avoid a wayward pedestrian. A cyclist is more likely to be looking out for such obstacles too, given their own vulnerability.

Comparison with the Luas is a better example. Its pretty quiet, lots of people walked out in front of them in the beginning cos they didn't look and couldn't hear them. Now its not really an issue as people have gotten used to it. Same will happen with silent cars given time and a bit of common sense.

Stevie Dakota

Matt Simis wrote: »

Thats a poor analogy. 1ton car vs Bike? Aside from weight and speed difference, a bike is more nimble and can do more to avoid a wayward pedestrian. A cyclist is more likely to be looking out for such obstacles too, given their own vulnerability.

So are we now discussing the seriousness of the injuries you might suffer if you step out without looking and listening? And if you are cycling and someone steps out, I can assure you there is often little you can do.

Car, bike, LUAS, whatever, people have to accept responsibility for their actions, step onto a road without looking and it's no-ones fault but your own.

Exhibit A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjnO2wV9HjI

Matt Simis

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Comparison with the Luas is a better example. Its pretty quiet, lots of people walked out in front of them in the beginning cos they didn't look and couldn't hear them. Now its not really an issue as people have gotten used to it. Same will happen with silent cars given time and a bit of common sense.

Thats actually a worse analogy.
One is strictly limited to a well marked and localised rail track while the other is on every corner, carpark, church, schoolyard etc. Far more occurrence in far more situations.
And there is the other fact, one is what, 30meters long and about 3x the height of a Prius...
And the Luas is much louder than an EV car.

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

Car, bike, LUAS, whatever, people have to accept responsibility for their actions, step onto a road without looking and it's no-ones fault but your own.

You see the issue here is I agree with you, people should accept responsibility. But back to the real world, the law doesnt see it that way, the pedestrian always has right of way when on the road in Ireland. Besides, no one wants to hit a pedestrian (with a car..), you dont need much of a bump to knock someone down the wrong way leading to far more serious injury than speed alone would suggest.

fricatus

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Comparison with the Luas is a better example. Its pretty quiet, lots of people walked out in front of them in the beginning cos they didn't look and couldn't hear them. Now its not really an issue as people have gotten used to it. Same will happen with silent cars given time and a bit of common sense.

But doesn't the Luas have those bells though, for the same reason as the Prius has the noise-generating device?

Doesn't the driver ring them when there are pedestrians visible ahead so as to warn in case they don't hear the tram coming?

Eric Cartman

sure why would they need that, if you drive a prius chances are everyone can hear the sound of you being a raging homosexual anyway

peasant

It's simple really ...the old road safety code says STOP, LOOK and LISTEN for a reason.

Everybody uses all their senses as a pedestrian in traffic. After all, you don't have eyes in the back of your head but your ears work 360 degrees.
Of course you can (and do) turn your head and look around you ...but consciously watch yourself next time you're out as a pedestrian ...your ears decide which way your head turns, especially if it has to turn beyond the customary left & right glance.

Silent cars are dangerous and something needs to be done

Cookie_Monster

fricatus wrote: »

But doesn't the Luas have those bells though, for the same reason as the Prius has the noise-generating device? a horn
?

peasant wrote: »

Silent cars are dangerous and something needs to be done

the are only dangerous because people are not used to them. What about when all cars run silently?? will they still need to generate needless noise to deal with a very few people who can't deal with progress

Sandwlch

About time. Have long been surprised that such a device was not fitted on them from the beginning. Will become a standard on all hybrids/electrics worldwide in the coming years.

mb1725

I think they should be fitted with the noise from this:

Vertakill

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

Or cyclists of which there are far more, must we have noise generating devices on them too?

Legislating for idiots is a waste of resources.

If you've ever walked around Amsterdam, you'd realise just how easy it is for you not to hear a cyclist coming behind you.

And I'd much rather be hit by a silent bicycle than a silent car!


Yes, it's a bit of a comical idea.. but I think it's probably necessary.

One of the main safety risks an electric car poses for a pedestrian is it's lack of noise... so they've addressed it. Don't see the logic in mocking it.