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This is why I think God exists.

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Comments

  • #272
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    use logic please wrote: »
    I said it could be, it's a possibility.

    In that case, it's possibly evidence for a superhuman race of aliens.

    Or, it might just be evidence for evolution, which explains pretty much everything you see around you.


  • #273
    use logic please
    Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭use logic please


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    In that case, it's possibly evidence for a superhuman race of aliens.

    Or, it might just be evidence for evolution, which explains pretty much everything you see around you.
    Evolution requires the kickstart of existence. (I do subscribe to the notion of evolution, I'll point out.)


  • #274
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    use logic please wrote: »
    I should say that my argument depends on an the axiom "Natural existence must occur in space and "linearly"* in time."
    I realise that in my first argument (even when you consider that it uses this axiom) I got from the supernatural to Theism too quickly, but I will be happy to make that link later, though I won't be able to make a scientific case simply because I will be discussing the supernatural, so our science won't be applicable. But for now, I'm going to try to give a reasonable case for the existence of the supernatural. So here's my revised argument:
    I intend here to argue that the axiom "Natural existence must occur in space and "linearly"* in time" (known from now on as axiom op) is the best axiom we have in 2010, and then to use this axiom. (* This "line of time" may vary in "density" due to special relativity's "time dilation," but as far as I know, in any experimentally well backed up theory time can best thought of by humans as a line.) We humans, as far as I know, have not experienced anything which disobeys this axiom and human experience is all we have to draw from. So, if we want to conduct a discussion in 2010, then this is the best axiom because it is backed up, as far as I know, by all of human experience. Now, using axiom op and discounting the supernatural for a moment, we come to that old chestnut "all existence came from nothing." Now, this seems to be a contradiction when we are using axiom op (it is mainly the linearity which gives this contradiction, I think that one prperty of this linearity is that any existing body must have a predecessor or predecessors.) So now, since we are using this very reasonable axiom op, and we have come to what seems to be a contradiction we can reasonably say that we were wrong to discount the supernatural. I think I've argued a reasonable case for the existence of the supernatural here.
    I think that Theism is not far away if the supernatural exists.
    But, as I said, I'll discuss that at another time as it is a different question, for now, I'm trying to give a reasonable case for the existence of the supernatural.
    I'M A BELIEVER!!!!

    :rolleyes:

    Seriously, this is just a reiteration in pseudo-science jibba jabba of what you said in your first post!


  • #275
    use logic please
    Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭use logic please


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    I'M A BELIEVER!!!!

    :rolleyes:

    Seriously, this is just a reiteration in pseudo-science jibba jabba of what you said in your first post!
    How so?


  • #276
    saywhatyousee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭saywhatyousee


    i know the answer but i am not telling!!:D


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  • #277
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Your argument is essentially ''something can't come from nothing, ergo God did it''.

    It's a tiresome argument, that has been debated time and time again on this forum.


  • #278
    use logic please
    Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭use logic please


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Your argument is essentially ''something can't come from nothing, ergo God did it''.

    It's a tiresome argument, that has been debated time and time again on this forum.

    I did not say "God did it." I said that I was arguing for the existence of the supernatural.


  • #279
    use logic please
    Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭use logic please


    saywhatyousee wrote: »
    i know the answer but i am not telling!!:D
    Why not?


  • #280
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Ya know what, I've had one too many arguments with people who all come here to tell us how their contradictory beliefs are true because of personal experience and how believing someone who says there are voices in their head is no different to believing someone who can put planes in the sky and none of their minds have ever been changed so I'm not going to continue this anymore. I'll just rest easy in the knowledge that if your beliefs are true then the beliefs of every other person who has ever come onto this forum to to make the very same point about science versus personal experience are false and vice versa. As far as I'm concerned that invalidates the whole argument but none of the people who make this argument every seem to realise this or care very much if they do


  • #281
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    use logic please wrote: »
    I did not say "God did it." I said that I was arguing for the existence of the supernatural.
    You started this thread didn't you? What title did you give it?


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  • #282
    mikhail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭mikhail


    use logic please wrote: »
    I did not say "God did it." I said that I was arguing for the existence of the supernatural.
    You started the thread claiming you'd show why you believe in God. Your argument is that something must have caused everything, ergo something something I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT G*D. People are getting snarky about that.


  • #283
    use logic please
    Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭use logic please


    mikhail wrote: »
    You started the thread claiming you'd show why you believe in God. Your argument is that something must have caused everything, ergo something something I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT G*D. People are getting snarky about that.
    Yeah, well I made an admission at the start of my last big post that I had jumped too easily from the supernatural to Theism. Maybe I should start a new thread about "Why I think the supernatural exists." So far nobody has taken on my argument on that.
    I can reconcile my last big post with my thread title, but I think many would not give me a chance if I tried.


  • #284
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    use logic please wrote: »
    Yeah, well I made an admission at the start of my last big post that I had jumped too easily from the supernatural to Theism. Maybe I should start a new thread about "Why I think the supernatural exists." So far nobody has taken on my argument on that.
    I can reconcile my last big post with my thread title, but I think many would not give me a chance if I tried.
    It's the same argument!

    I'm sensing some trollish behaviour now tbh.


  • #285
    use logic please
    Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭use logic please


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    It's the same argument!

    I'm sensing some trollish behaviour now tbh.
    Do you want to take me on on my argument for the supernatural?


  • #286
    Morbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,457 ✭✭✭Morbert


    use logic please wrote: »
    Do you want to take me on on my argument for the supernatural?

    Yes.

    And again, regarding the creation of the universe. There is no evidence that the universe came from nothing, so there was never a time when it needed to be created.


  • #287
    mikhail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭mikhail


    use logic please wrote: »
    Yeah, well I made an admission at the start of my last big post that I had jumped too easily from the supernatural to Theism. Maybe I should start a new thread about "Why I think the supernatural exists." So far nobody has taken on my argument on that.
    You mean like the guy who posted about how quantum mechanics allow something to arise from nothing, or the huge number of posts pointing out that breaking the axiom that nothing can be created from nothing to create a creator means you're not actually using logic?


  • #288
    use logic please
    Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭use logic please


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    It's the same argument!

    I'm sensing some trollish behaviour now tbh.
    Do you want to take me on on my argument for the supernatural? I think it's a pretty good one.


  • #289
    saywhatyousee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭saywhatyousee


    use logic please wrote: »
    Why not?
    ohh ok truth of the matter is there are many gods.
    humans are actually demi-gods this was an accident
    angels cross breed with humans (this is why atlantis was destroyed)
    humans where never supposed to have white skin red/blonde hair blue eyes these traits where reserved for the gods and angels


  • #290
    raah!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,629 ✭✭✭raah!


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    Ya know what, I've had one too many arguments with people who all come here to tell us how their contradictory beliefs are true because of personal experience and how believing someone who says there are voices in their head is no different to believing someone who can put planes in the sky and none of their minds have ever been changed so I'm not going to continue this anymore. I'll just rest easy in the knowledge that if your beliefs are true then the beliefs of every other person who has ever come onto this forum to to make the very same point about science versus personal experience are false and vice versa. As far as I'm concerned that invalidates the whole argument but none of the people who make this argument every seem to realise this or care very much if they do

    I hope that isn't directed at me. If it is I applaud your strawmaning abilities. If you'd like verification of the inaccuracy of that interpretation just read over my posts.

    And if that is directed at me, then I'll just assume anytime we have an argument that you are incapable of actually reading what it's said but merely lead the thread off in your own direction, and then in a direction different to this , pretending they are the same, and then around in circles.

    All the same, I had a grand time arguing, but perhaps it's best that this is the last.


  • #291
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    use logic please wrote: »
    Do you want to take me on on my argument for the supernatural? I think it's a pretty good one.
    It's not.


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  • #292
    use logic please
    Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭use logic please


    Morbert wrote: »
    Yes.

    And again, regarding the creation of the universe. There is no evidence that the universe came from nothing, so there was never a time when it needed to be created.
    Are you sure about all that? How do you explain the existence of the universe? thanks for engaging with my argument.


  • #293
    use logic please
    Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭use logic please


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    It's not.
    Why not? Please refer to my argument.


  • #294
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    use logic please wrote: »
    Why not? Please refer to my argument.
    You don't have an argument, you're just substituting ignorance for God/the supernatural, which just raises more questions than it answers.


  • #295
    use logic please
    Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭use logic please


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    You don't have an argument, you're just substituting ignorance for God/the supernatural, which just raises more questions than it answers.
    How do you know I'm doing that? How can you show it? You have not referred to anything I've said.


  • #296
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    use logic please wrote: »
    How do you know I'm doing that? How can you show it? You have not referred to anything I've said.
    Are you taking the piss now or something?


  • #297
    munsterdevil
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 912 ✭✭✭munsterdevil


    So, tough draw for Spurs in the Champions League eh? :confused:


  • #298
    use logic please
    Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭use logic please


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Are you taking the piss now or something?

    No, why don't you just refer to my argument?


  • #299
    Martha Unimportant Lemon
    Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Martha Unimportant Lemon


    use logic please wrote: »
    No, why don't you just refer to my argument?

    The argument from ignorance? let's not


  • #300
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    use logic please wrote: »
    No, why don't you just refer to my argument?
    You argument is that something can't come from nothing, therefore there must be a supernatural (God) creator.

    Am I missing something here?

    I know that you're substituting ignorance for the supernatural, erm, because you don't know what happened before the big bang. Pretty simple really.


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  • #301
    saywhatyousee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭saywhatyousee


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    You argument is that something can't come from nothing, therefore there must be a supernatural (God) creator.

    Am I missing something here?

    I know that you're substituting ignorance for the supernatural, erm, because you don't know what happened before the big bang. Pretty simple really.

    that is assuming the big bang actually happened?


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