Gormley does it again.

hk

Anyone see the indo today, Gormley does it again. I know of lot of people who use commercial 4x4s and vans for shooting and hunting as well as work. Is there no end to the amount of misery this guy is willing to bring on. Especially in a recession. God I really hate him and his insistence on using his office to further his own personal policies and whims.

kildare.17hmr

I no its an absolute joke, what about all the chippys and other trades men who need a van for work and also use it as there car??? The builder who has a crewcab and might give the wife a lift to work or run around in it on the weekends??? rediculas policies which will do him no favours come election time when hopefully the people of this country will chuck em out of power.

kieran1141

just got a phone call to tell me mr gormley was on the radio this morning asking the garda to stop any jeep that is being used for private use under commercial insurance and tax, he's tired of the country being ripped off, well i have a trade and bought my jeep 6 years ago for work but out of work now so am i not to drive, instead of 288 euro around a 1000 on tax and iam broke, mabey iam posting this on the wrong thread but i use the jeep for hunting and fishing and dogs, he said he's sick of these loop holes, mabey someone can tell me what was said. thanks

Sparks

Merging threads. This is only very periheperally related to shooting though lads - would Politics or the Motoring 4x4 forum be better for it with more information and such?

kildare.17hmr

related none the less id say:D

hk

Sparks wrote: »

Merging threads. This is only very periheperally related to shooting though lads - would Politics or the Motoring 4x4 forum be better for it with more information and such?

Shooting would be the primary social use of my one so.....

Grizzly 45

Got fed up of commerical van style 4x4 ,and got a passenger 4wd,and a tax bill of 1500 euros from that little green creep for the privilige of driving it on our crappy roads.However my sympathies are 1000% with those who have commercial 4X4s.
If this doesnt get us out to protest and show our displeasure at this bunch of Green fascists ..Nothing will!:mad:

Sparks

hk wrote: »

Shooting would be the primary social use of my one so.....

Grand so. No reason people can't read both places I guess

Dusty87

Gormley can f*ck off. Beyond a joke now. Is there anything we can do, is rise gettin behind this or anythin?

Tackleberrywho

I can't believe this!

Gormess is really getting on my wick here. Really...........

Bad enough for folk who can't sell their vechicles as the arse has fallen out of the commercial market.

The guy who farms part time/Hunts or has another job.

technically now if you want to use a commercial vehicle for hunting you are have to pay up to €1800 extra or face prosecution under Gormless ruling

I've taken this up to the teeth.
Against Hunting, against country life. Not everybody want to drive a Prius an Sabotage Hunts
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

So if I or my father drives to the shop, or anywhere in a 4x4 or Commercial Vehicle we have to pay Good luck on that Gormless!

landkeeper

you can always just bite the bullet and pay private tax on it,private insurance is usually cheaper (well cheaper in my case)and you only need a nct every two years for me it cost 200 euro a year extra to keep the windows and seats if you do all the comparison sums the trouble with that is all those crewcab commercials came into the country at 50 euro to vrt them
what happens now if you want to tax them privately do you have to pay the outstanding vrt on the vehicle :eek: pass the vaseline please

rrpc

Seriously folks, I don't see the point of getting all upset about this. The man has a political death wish and is digging like fury in that hole he's in.

Can we not just sit back and watch the ensuing motorway pileup that the Greens are now?

mrbrianj

There was something in the motoring section of the Irish times (iirc) a few weeks ago, about the greens and their push for electric cars.

It was saying that amount of vrt rebate on an electric car was based on the car being bought by people with an average household income of 150K per year

Considering the condition of the economy, it shows that Green TDs are in lala land.

If John Gormley can kill jeeps and small vans, stop one-off housing and put and end to field sports - he might get a few votes in his local constituency as none of these issues really effect that area too much

buzzymam

This new farcical and unenforceable law is effectively turning the under staffed as it is Gardai into fecking revenue collectors!

No time for crime fighting/prevention....to busy pen pushing fines for gormless.

Dusty87

I thought it wasn the tip of the wedge for us? The only people who wont mind this are soccer moms in there big x5s and audi 4x4's.

johngalway

rrpc wrote: »

Seriously folks, I don't see the point of getting all upset about this. The man has a political death wish and is digging like fury in that hole he's in.

Can we not just sit back and watch the ensuing motorway pileup that the Greens are now?

The problem lies in if he's allowed enforce this, it'll stick. I doubt any future Government would reverse it as it generates revenue.

Tackleberrywho

landkeeper wrote: »

you can always just bite the bullet and pay private tax on it,private insurance is usually cheaper (well cheaper in my case)and you only need a nct every two years for me it cost 200 euro a year extra to keep the windows and seats if you do all the comparison sums the trouble with that is all those crewcab commercials came into the country at 50 euro to vrt them
what happens now if you want to tax them privately do you have to pay the outstanding vrt on the vehicle :eek: pass the vaseline please

Point of FACT, Crew Cabs from 2003 onwards paid 13.3% VRT off WHAT ROS.ie said it was worth So a 2007 Hilux you are looking at €3000 VRT that they got off you or more .

That's a fact

Road tax on a 3L is €1800 Vs €270

Thats waaaaay more than €200 a year !

Try €1500 extra TAX per year!

johngalway

Eamon Ryan on George Hook (newstalk) NOW.

landkeeper

well full vrt is 30% so there is a problem there anyway i bet they look for revrting it if its going to be classed privately so another 17% lad
i did state my case tack the discovery is 938 a year as opposed to 288 afaikr

Tackleberrywho

landkeeper wrote: »

well full vrt is 30% so there is a problem there anyway i bet they look for revrting it if its going to be classed privately so another 17% lad
i did state my case tack the discovery is 938 a year as opposed to 288 afaikr

Well a 3L jeep is €1293 a year as opposed to €288(Landcruiser,Hilux,L200 Trooper etc)

Thats €1005 a year!
Commercials are almost worthless at the moment as every business is on it's

This is Disgusting to say the least!!

elius

Let alone that chargeing people for vrt is illegal under some eu law..

Im hoping the guards will turn a blind eye to this. And will die out like the provisional licenses..

Does lamping constitute as work seeing as you are technically working for the farmer.??

Macha

There are no changes to Motor Tax being brought in.

The Indo article is a work of fiction and I expect them to be publishing a retraction/apology tomorrow.

Tackleberrywho

taconnol wrote: »

There are no changes to Motor Tax being brought in.

The Indo article is a work of fiction and I expect them to be publishing a retraction/apology tomorrow.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0824/greens_motor_tax.html

You explain this to me then So?

Ryan Seems to think I can't use my 4x4 to go to the shop or use it for hunting without paying "SOCIAL DOMESTIC & PLEASURABLE TAX"


I am very enraged.

When I calm down I will write a letter, not until then :mad:

kildare.17hmr

true these laws have always been in place but never inforced. the gards have always turned a blind eye as it is county councils job to police it, which is happening now as people are being asked to give vat numbers ect when taxing commercials

rrpc

johngalway wrote: »

The problem lies in if he's allowed enforce this, it'll stick. I doubt any future Government would reverse it as it generates revenue.

Firstly it would cause mayhem in the motor industry as an already depressed market would depress further as the bottom fell out of the commercial 4x4 market.

Secondly, the building industry (already on what's left of its knees) would be up in arms at what could be described as the final coup de grace to subbies and small builders.

Thirdly, the market would shift away from the 4x4s to small vans and car derived vans which would end up netting the Government nothing.

In other words it's yet another ideologically driven proposal from a party that's caused mayhem already this year with another idelogically driven crusade and which their partners in government could hardly view as anything but suicidal.

Anything's possible, but I just don't see FF going for it.

johngalway

taconnol wrote: »

There are no changes to Motor Tax being brought in.

The Indo article is a work of fiction and I expect them to be publishing a retraction/apology tomorrow.

So people will not be forced to sign a declaration at a Garda station saying they only use that particular vehicle for work purposes, is that what you're saying?

johngalway

rrpc wrote: »

Firstly it would cause mayhem in the motor industry as an already depressed market would depress further as the bottom fell out of the commercial 4x4 market.

Secondly, the building industry (already on what's left of its knees) would be up in arms at what could be described as the final coup de grace to subbies and small builders.

Thirdly, the market would shift away from the 4x4s to small vans and car derived vans which would end up netting the Government nothing.

In other words it's yet another ideologically driven proposal from a party that's caused mayhem already this year with another idelogically driven crusade and which their partners in government could hardly view as anything but suicidal.

Anything's possible, but I just don't see FF going for it.

In a normal state of affairs no, I would agree with you. Problem is FF have a tiny little problem of most of the country currently despising them and the only thing - apart from something completely unexpected - keeping them from being fed to the hounds at an Election is the Green Party. The tail is definitely wagging the dog here.

elius

johngalway wrote: »

So people will not be forced to sign a declaration at a Garda station saying they only use that particular vehicle for work purposes, is that what you're saying?

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...x-2309056.html

Tackleberrywho

A Vat Registration number would have to be filled in on the form

THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE, I filled out one of those forms first 6 years ago. Now they want a VAT number too!

rrpc

johngalway wrote: »

In a normal state of affairs no, I would agree with you. Problem is FF have a tiny little problem of most of the country currently despising them and the only thing - apart from something completely unexpected - keeping them from being fed to the hounds at an Election is the Green Party. The tail is definitely wagging the dog here.

If you mean by that, that they see the Greens as providing a buffer between them and the electorate then they really are stupid. Nobody's fooled by such smoke and mirrors, they stand and fall together.

Is it proposed that you sign a declaration in a Garda Station to the effect that the vehicle be only used for business? I can see the Gardai being real excited about that :rolleyes:

johngalway

elius wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...x-2309056.html

I know, I've been loosely following it today on the radio

It doesn't affect me, but it will affect people I know.

Tackleberrywho

rrpc wrote: »

If you mean by that, that they see the Greens as providing a buffer between them and the electorate then they really are stupid. Nobody's fooled by such smoke and mirrors, they stand and fall together.

Is it proposed that you sign a declaration in a Garda Station to the effect that the vehicle be only used for business? I can see the Gardai being real excited about that :rolleyes:

RRPC, you will be required to put a VAT reg number on it, so any farmers sons out there do not have one.

Macha

johngalway wrote: »

So people will not be forced to sign a declaration at a Garda station saying they only use that particular vehicle for work purposes, is that what you're saying?

People already have to declare, through the RF111A form, that their vehicle is only for goods.

So yes that's exactly what I'm saying.

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0824/greens_motor_tax.html

You explain this to me then So?

Ryan Seems to think I can't use my 4x4 to go to the shop or use it for hunting without paying "SOCIAL DOMESTIC & PLEASURABLE TAX"

What is there to explain? Ryan says himself "there is nothing new, there is no change, no additional tax from the Green Party or anyone else".

But what you call "social, domestic & pleasure tax" is the standard rate of motor tax that private vehicle owners pay.

Shame on the media for these fabrications. The Indo article is a complete lie. I emailed Conor Faughnan this morning about his interview on Morning Ireland and he replied that he too was misled by the media reports and has since made this clear in radio interviews. You can see from the AA website:

Newspaper stories this morning (24th August) implied that motor tax rules for commercial vehicles would be changed and that drivers of commercial vehicles would face ‘fines or even imprisonment’ if they used their vehicles for non-commercial, domestic or pleasure purposes. This presented the prospect that a plumber or carpenter could be fined for driving his van to mass on a Sunday, a prospect that the AA denounced as unfair and unenforceable.

The AA has received clarification from the Department of the Environment subsequently which makes it clear that there is no change to existing regulations.

The only thing that is new is that when first taxing a vehicle as a commercial vehicle you must provide a Revenue Registration Number and may be asked for support documentation. Nothing else has changed.
The full text of the Department of the Environment’s clarification to the AA is given below:

http://blog.aaireland.ie/?p=347

So if you've already registered and taxed your commercial vehicle, this has ZERO impact on you. And if you are taxing a commercial vehicle for the first time, you have to include the Revenue Registration Number. That is all.

deerhunter1

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

I no its an absolute joke, what about all the chippys and other trades men who need a van for work and also use it as there car??? The builder who has a crewcab and might give the wife a lift to work or run around in it on the weekends??? rediculas policies which will do him no favours come election time when hopefully the people of this country will chuck em out of power.

Next election they ill dissapear like the moronic PD's:P

johngalway

rrpc wrote: »

If you mean by that, that they see the Greens as providing a buffer between them and the electorate then they really are stupid. Nobody's fooled by such smoke and mirrors, they stand and fall together.

Is it proposed that you sign a declaration in a Garda Station to the effect that the vehicle be only used for business? I can see the Gardai being real excited about that :rolleyes:

Yeah, you have to go into the station and sign to that effect! Ignorance was never a defense but in this case it's not even an excuse now.

Too true about the cops, they'll get dogs abuse over it. In fairness to them, I've been in vehicles (not mine) which haven't had the proper bits on the window and they've always been more than fair.

What I mean about the Greens is they're more a movement as opposed to FF being a power hungry political machine. FF's aim is to stay in power, end of. Greens know this, and I believe they're not in the same league as FF when it comes to power craving. I still don't like them mind. So the Greens do have a certain amount of leverage over FF here. Yes, they will both get screwed at the next election IMO, yes both want to make it as far as the next scheduled election. But, FF want it more than the Greens need it.

Grizzly 45

taconnol wrote: »

There are no changes to Motor Tax being brought in.

The Indo article is a work of fiction and I expect them to be publishing a retraction/apology tomorrow.

I'll belive THAT when I see it!!;) Cant see the Indo just going willy nilly into publishing somthing totally unsubstantiated.

Anything's possible, but I just don't see FF going for it.

Well,they went for crazier things,like the stag hunting bill!!
Anything now that this corrupt shower of incompetants will do to squeeze the last cent out of us will be done to cover their decade of financial disaster.Honestly we should be all outside Gormless constituency office,pumping diesel smoke over his eco veggies to show how displeased we are.

elius

johngalway wrote: »

I know, I've been loosely following it today on the radio

It doesn't affect me, but it will affect people I know.

Sh1te wrong link :o
http://www.donegalcoco.ie/NR/rdonlyres/03A0C311-E1A2-4747-85BC-7F559CF4EEB6/0/RF111AGoodsOnlyDeclaration.pdf

Tackleberrywho

taconnol wrote: »

People already have to declare, through the RF111A form, that their vehicle is only for goods.

So yes that's exactly what I'm saying.


What is there to explain? Ryan says himself "there is nothing new, there is no change, no additional tax from the Green Party or anyone else".

But what you call "social, domestic & pleasure tax" is the standard rate of motor tax that private vehicle owners pay.

Shame on the media for these fabrications.

You have pointed out on another thread that one will have to Furnish a Vat Reg number now, this was never required before.

This is the sting in the tail!

johngalway

Hmm, we'll see how it develops.

rrpc

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

RRPC, you will be required to put a VAT reg number on it, so any farmers sons out there do not have one.

I thought I saw mention of tax clearance certs and other evidence of a business being accepted.

It's still just eminently silly. I could have one because I run my own business but I use an estate car instead because I need the extra seats for the family etc. But I know plenty of lads who use these (including my own brother) so I can understand the pain if this were to be instituted.

Lemming like behaviour from the Greens, they really have no future here now.

Macha

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

You have pointed out on another thread that one will have to Furnish a Vat Reg number now, this was never required before.

This is the sting in the tail!

What is the big deal?

Macha

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I'll belive THAT when I see it!!;) Cant see the Indo just going willy nilly into publishing somthing totally unsubstantiated.

Are you serious? The Indo is an utter rag.

steve9859

taconnol wrote: »

People already have to declare, through the RF111A form, that their vehicle is only for goods.

So yes that's exactly what I'm saying.


What is there to explain? Ryan says himself "there is nothing new, there is no change, no additional tax from the Green Party or anyone else".

Everyone needs to calm down a bit. When you get your tax renewal form in the post it is RF111B, not RF111A. The RF111B is form is renewed automatically at your tax office. I did so in person today. I was told that the new enforcement applies only to RF111A, which is for NEW commercial motor tax. So there is in fact nothing new. Just stricter enforcement of the rules as they relate to NEW applications

johngalway

taconnol wrote: »

The Indo is an utter rag.

That's true, but on the flip side is trusting politicians.

Oh dear

moonshadow

taconnol wrote: »

Are you serious? The Indo is an utter rag.

Compared to the......

Grizzly 45

taconnol wrote: »

Are you serious? The Indo is an utter rag.

The best of a bunch of utter and total rags you mean??:)

Tackleberrywho

rrpc wrote: »

I thought I saw mention of tax clearance certs and other evidence of a business being accepted.

It's still just eminently silly. I could have one because I run my own business but I use an estate car instead because I need the extra seats for the family etc. But I know plenty of lads who use these (including my own brother) so I can understand the pain if this were to be instituted.

Lemming like behaviour from the Greens, they really have no future here now.

All Farmers bough crew cabs when the Child seat laws came in.
I use my 4x4 for everything, I'd be lost without it.

I work my 4x4. She is off road several times a week, pulls trailers, carries bales of hay, but also brings me to work, the shops and where ever I may travel.

Technically I would have to park my 4x4 up in the evening.

as myself and all my brothers work on the farm for free we do not have a VAT number.
The gardai know we are farmers, as they often bought hay for their horses off us guess what, they had jeeps for their horse boxes too!

Macha

moonshadow wrote: »

Compared to the......

Nothing - they're all pretty awful but the Indo and SIndo are especially raggish.

Sparks

deerhunter1 wrote: »

Next election they ill dissapear like the moronic PD's:P

Only to be replaced by the next small party (like the one Michael "I'm quitting politics" McDowell is supposed to be forming at the moment). FF have gotten used to the idea of a smaller, ablative party; and if they can hang in by their fingernails until the next election, they may well stay in power as a result of that idea.

bencherman

hk wrote: »

Anyone see the indo today, Gormley does it again. I know of lot of people who use commercial 4x4s and vans for shooting and hunting as well as work. Is there no end to the amount of misery this guy is willing to bring on. Especially in a recession. God I really hate him and his insistence on using his office to further his own personal policies and whims.

Maybe we (commercial drivers) shud do like other strikes in this country and get together and do a drive slow day (like the taxi drivers have done ooops):)

muckyprawn

I have just sent them an email complaining about the fact there is nothing on their website about this issue...they seem to be more concerned about the price of rugby tickets...scandalous, really feeling enraged about this whole scandal!