Aircoach Belfast Route to go...

dub_commuter

As per rumours on this forum previously it appears that Aircoach is suffering financially, as shown in the below article:

The future of a private company coach route between Belfast and Dublin Airport is in doubt due to a dramatic fall in numbers using the service, the Business Telegraph can reveal.

Aircoach has told its 11 bus drivers on the cross-border route that they may lose their jobs as the company considers whether the route is still viable.

The firm faces steep competition from Translink — and the growing inclination of Northern Irish passengers to take their cars to Dublin Airport as improvements to the road are made. The Newry bypass was opened last month, reducing travel time to Dublin Airport from Belfast to well under two hours. In addition, the number of passengers from Northern Ireland using Dublin Airport has fallen since Ryanair and Aer Lingus set up hubs in Northern Ireland airports.

The number of overseas visitors to the Republic is also in decline, with just over two million visiting between January and May in 2010, compared to 2.9 million in the same period in 2008.

A spokesman for Aircoach — which is owned by British company First Group — said: “Aircoach is currently in discussions with its employees on the future of its Dublin Airport to Belfast route. This route has been operating since 2004 and employs 11 people to operate 10 return services daily.

“Aircoach will not comment any further on these discussions until they have been concluded. They are expected to conclude in mid-September during which normal |service will continue.

“The company’s routes from Ballsbridge, Greystones, Dalkey, Leopardstown and Cork to Dublin Airport are not affected.”

Blue Aircoach vehicles have been a frequent sight on the main road between Dublin and Belfast.

It is understood the company has been forced to reconsider the route as the numbers using it have fallen dramatically. But the company is expected to retain an office in Belfast.

One possibility is that the company may limit the Belfast to Dublin service to the summer time.

Aircoach was founded in 1999 by Irish entrepreneur John O’Sullivan to bring passengers to Dublin Airport, breaking the Dublin Bus monopoly on carrying passengers to the airport.

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/business-news/aircoach-service-at-risk-after-fall-in-passengers-14921894.html#ixzz0xVuOIsFQ

Cookie_Monster

I presume the expansion of Aer Lingus in Belfast also affect number travelling down south.

Even in Dublin it cheaper to park the car for a 5-6 days than it is to to pay for 2 returns on Aircoach, no wonder they are losing out

devnull

I think the fact that they cannot run to Dublin City center makes them lose out on cross border traffic a little as well.

Generally you only have the people going to the Airport that has dimished, and the people who live closer to the airport than the city centre who will use it to Belfast City centre.

foggy_lad

dub_commuter wrote: »

As per rumours on this forum previously it appears that Aircoach is suffering financially, as shown in the below article:

it is probably wrong to say that aircoach are suffering financially if the implication is that they are in trouble financially, it is far more likely that they just wont throw more money down the drain on a service that is probably already losing them money regardless of the staff cuts that may be required.

westtip

Here's some points for discussion on this subject:

The Government is not allowed to step in and support this company providing an excellent service, because it can't subsidise private companies under EU laws. But ten jobs are likely to go - and the southern based job losses will result in more on the social welfare bill which we have to borrow from the EU (err Germans) to pay.

The Government is allowed to carry on subsidising a loss making service run by the like of IE or BE., they can for example continue to subvent crazy branch lines of railways not needed in the West of Ireland.....U no WOT I mean to the tune of how much per passenger 40 50 60 70 80 90 euro per journey take your pick. but look at this post first (its not one of mine but someone praising the fact the subsidy per journey on aforementioned line might only be 44 euro per journey!!!!)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67268643&postcount=850

If you are still with me....think about how much 44 euro per passenger subvention would do for this bus service......(keep a few jobs, improve the service, virtually make it free!!!!)

The Government (ie u and me) own 25% of Aer Lingus and therefore must have supported management decision to relocate Aer Lingus routes to Belfast - which it must be assumed they knew would canabalise seats sold going out of Dublin, ah now that's another story ....but the connections to the OP story are there.

The Government - you would have thought - would actualy prefer passengers from the north to route through Dublin cos guess what - they will pay flight taxes, parking fees, tolls on the M1 spend money (and therefore increase VAT intake) at Dublin Airport and help justify T2.

(As an aside....Now I am sure - the PPP consortium that produced the M1 is delighted that The 25% stakeholder of the national airline has managed to ensure that less passengers are travelling down to Dublin Airport - thanks to the promotion of Belfast by............... fill in the blank yourself.)

Ergo: The government you would have thought would provide a free bus service from the North to the Airport - to get more bums on seats flying out of Dublin Airport.

Joined up tinkering......ask Dempsey.

do you get the drift......the word is simple .....incompetence

ardmacha

If there are profitable routes from Belfast then the government should not interfere with the commercial decision of Aer Lingus to operate those routes. Apart from anything else if EI didn't operate these services than someone else would. In another context people would be rant here about government interference.

One issue here is that Aircoach are somewhat restricted in comparision to the frequent BE/Ulsterbus services on the route. Departure taxes may have affected the range and cost of services from Dublin. But largely this is demand, less people are flying, this has meant cheaper parking in Dublin airport and the combination of somewhat less people flying and more of them choosing to park in Dublin has reduced the Aircoach service below break even.

AlekSmart

All in all,very bad news for those who work in or use Public Transport in general.

It has to be said however that the Belfast route,and to a lesser extent the Cork route do not sit neatly with the First Aircoach business model.

The company is not called AIRcoach for nothing and that original clean,unambigious branding was a stroke of genius from it`s founder John O Sullivan.

Indeed I would suggest that Mr O Sullivan,through his Dublin Coach operation linking Portlaoise and Dublin Airport,may well decide to have a closer look at the Belfast licence and the opportunities for synergy with the Dublin Coach route.

It will also be an interesting exercise for the National Transport Authority,who may well have a first (!!) opportunity to flex their step-in muscles .

However in the context of Road Tolls,I can see Minister Dempsey rubbing his little hands together at the prospect of a few more vitally necessary jammers passing through his PPP Toll Facilities...these oul coaches are of no use whatever to the PPP Toll Operators,and you can bet ur bottom dollar they have kept the good Minister fully appraised of that fact !!! :rolleyes:

devnull

The Cork route seems to do pretty well though, with good loads on most departures so I can't see that going anytime soon, as it seems to be a good earner for them. From observations the Dalkey and Greystones routes have picked up passenger wise in the last few months.

I don't buy that they are in huge financial difficulties either as a quick search on the web and here reveals they have made 7 figure profits the last few years with the money going into the bank and retained, and with the fact they appear to be fitting wifi to all their coaches in the last few weeks shows they have some money around.

Would it be worth First introducing a new brand for services, not running everything under Aircoach that was not airport related? If they still want to expand in Ireland then they would need to do this at some point anyway, although maybe they have got fed up waiting like the owners of Citylink are rumored to have done.

I would welcome competition on the Belfast City Centre to Dublin City Centre route but I guess they cannot get the license for this?

westtip

devnull wrote: »

I would welcome competition on the Belfast City Centre to Dublin City Centre route but I guess they cannot get the license for this?

If Aircoach from Belfast to Dublin Airport can hang on in there with this route in the long term the lack of a licence to the city centre will become less of an issue - When and if Metro North gets out the Airport - then the coaches are effectively connected to the wider Dublin suburban train system. Its the onward connection for many travellors that is the key issue. Arriving in the city centre is not necessarily going to be any more advantageous than arriving in Airport and jumping on the Metro, in fact for many it will make for a shorter journey time.

I also think Aircoach should turn their Airport base status to their own advantage - and integrate their timetables to offer "all ireland" journies with thru ticketing - so for example if you want to travel from Greystones to Belfast - you jump on Aircoach and buy a through ticket "via" the airport and at the airport change to an Aircoach Belfast bound bus. Aircoach need to start thinking like this and promoting these kind of journies, and pricing up through journies advantageously - my guess is the psyche of the company and of the customers is you use Aircoach to get to and from the Airport - whereas if the Airport is just seen as a bus station for Aircoach they could be getting more passengers thinking this way. Then when Metro comes along they are in a position of strength to reinforce this position that they are the carrier to the North Dublin Airport/Bus/Metro interchange.

Aircoach if you are reading this go for it!

shoegirl

I think the problem is that they are in direct competition with Translink/Bus Eireann on the route which is very fast and 24x7. It also links up well to other transport links at either end. I got a Translink from Belfast to Dublin recently and was pleasantly surprised by how quick it was.

On the other hand I got a one way trip a day later on an Aircoach and it was like going back to the 1980s. It was painfully slow, scruffy, overcrowded and stopped halfway to change bus making everybody get out and move seats (adding at least 20 minutes to the journey). Hardly a "modern" or "competitive" service.

If private operators want to genuinely compete they either need to be cheaper or better than public transport. Just offering the same thing at the same price isn't any use for anyone.

markpb

shoegirl wrote: »

On the other hand I got a one way trip a day later on an Aircoach and it was like going back to the 1980s. It was painfully slow, scruffy, overcrowded and stopped halfway to change bus making everybody get out and move seats (adding at least 20 minutes to the journey). Hardly a "modern" or "competitive" service.

It sounds like you had one bad experience where the bus broke down and you're tarring every Aircoach service and possibly every private bus operator with the same brush. I've been taking Aircoach to Belfast for years and I find them reliable, fast and comfortable. Depending on the bus you get with BE, the Aircoach can be a lot more comfortable and spacious.

Obviously the cut in frequency combined with the hourly service that BE are offering means that Aircoach don't stand a chance.

westtip

I used Aircoach for the first time recently, couldn't fault them. flight landed 5.20 - no baggage out the front of the airport 5.40 pm grabbed a coffee before gettin on the 6.00 pm bus and in Greystones at 7.15 pm less than two hours after touching down - I don't think thats bad using public transport - in fact if I had had to collect a car from long term anf faff around with that procedure I don't think I could have got there much quicker. 13 Euro one way If I had used them for a return journey its 20 return - An m50 toll each way and petrol wouldn't be much short of this - not to mention the parking. I had been away ten days and car parked in Greystones before heading back west. Not bad for the service level you got. I would highly recommend them. I know one thing if I was living in North Dublin and needed to get a bus to Belfast I wouldn't think twice before using them - 20 euro return to Belfast from Dublin Airport. Lets say they took up my idea above and offered a through service changing at the airport from say Greystones - and charged say 30 euro return - I reckon they might get takers for this which would help the Belfast service. There are other through routes they could promote to Belfast (Cork Belfast?) with a through route as opposed to paying for each leg separately pricing policy. They need to get their thinking caps on to increase revenues.

Cookie_Monster

westtip wrote: »

I used Aircoach for the first time recently, couldn't fault them. flight landed 5.20 - no baggage out the front of the airport 5.40 pm grabbed a coffee before gettin on the 6.00 pm bus and in Greystones at 7.15 pm less than two hours after touching down - I don't think thats bad using public transport - in fact if I had had to collect a car from long term anf faff around with that procedure I don't think I could have got there much quicker. 13 Euro one way If I had used them for a return journey its 20 return - An m50 toll each way and petrol wouldn't be much short of this - not to mention the parking. I had been away ten days and car parked in Greystones before heading back west. Not bad for the service level you got. I would highly recommend them.

I've driven to the airport the last few times. Considering it would cost the two if us 28 quid of the bus and at least 30 mins longer each way its a total no brainer to drive. Its cheaper, quicker, and the carpark just reads you reg. no need for tickets or anything. Unless I'm going for over a week I'll never use PT to the airport again.

westtip

Cookie its a fair point and its horses for courses. It suited me on this occassion and I found it a good service. I've not used DAP carpark for ages - have they bought the prices down and seem from what you said to have an automated billing service - so that all sound good. Aircoach are offering a good service and if it suits I will use - certainly for the single travellor the cost benefits are there - but as you said for more than one person you have to look at it. Perhaps Aircoach should look at "couples tickets" or "family tickets" maybe not on a turn and go basis but for example on web booking these days everyone has to be creative to get business. If for example when booking a web fare and they wanted to attract your business - if they said the second person of the couple travels half price. they get two fares they wouldn't have got.

markpb

westtip wrote: »

Perhaps Aircoach should look at "couples tickets" or family tickets - these days everyone has to be creative to get business.

Bus Eireann sell family tickets on some/all of their routes that serve the airport. I can't remember the exact details but I think it was €90 return for 2 adults and 2 children from Ballina. It's a great idea.

BE have really started using the airport to it's full potential lately. They've altered several intercity routes to serve it, they have overnight buses so people can make the first flight out of the airport, they have late night buses back and they have inspectors and ticket machines at the bus stops. I'm very impressed. Kudos to DAA for building proper bus facilities at the airport too - it wouldn't have been possible without that.

westtip

I know several people who have taken the late night bus from Ballina to Airport and say it works well. My god one of our public transport providers being innovative, theres a first. the 90 euro family ticket from Ballina is not bad, when you think probably 60 euro (at least) in fuel return, and tolls on the M4 and Westlink, (12 euro) and then your parking bill, coudl this be a case of PT actually being creative to take on private cars on a cost basis?

ardmacha

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/business-news/aircoach-cancels-belfastdublin-service-14956348.htm

A coach company has suspended its route between Belfast to Dublin Airport after six years of operation.

Aircoach yesterday confirmed it was ending the route, which runs 10 return services daily.

A spokesman said it was consulting its 11 drivers to decide their options "which will either be possible alternative employment within Aircoach's operation or redundancy".

The last day of the run will be October 29.

Aircoach's blue coaches have been a familiar sight on the roads between Belfast and Dublin.

The company spokesman said customers who had booked online for travel dates after October 29 would be entitled to a refund.

Aircoach was founded in 1999 by Irish entrepreneur John O'Sullivan to bring passengers to Dublin Airport, breaking the Dublin Bus monopoly on the route.

Aircoach is now owned by Aberdeen-based bus company FirstGroup.

It has faced falling passenger numbers on the route as a result of growing competition from Translink - while improvements to the Belfast to Dublin road have made it more attractive for motorists to drive.

Meanwhile, FirstGroup founder Sir Moir Lockhead has announced plans to step down from his role as chief executive after 21 years with the company.

He will be succeeded by former London Underground boss Tim O'Toole.

dowlingm

As a transborder route, does route licensing work differently to routes only within the 26?

devnull

I think anyone can run a service between Republic and Ireland and Northern Ireland without a license, but they are only permitted to carry passengers cross border.

For example, if someone gets on in the north, they have to get off in the Republic, and vice versa. However they got a license from Dundalk to Dublin Airport last year, which allowed them to carry people within the republic, but as they did not have a license in Northern Ireland, anyone getting up up the north had to get off in the republic.

Saying that there is nothing on the Aircoach website at the moment about it which is odd, but I've heard and read a few murmurs about their communication not being the best recently.

I would suggest the Dublin based staff will stay on, and the Northern Ireland staff will either work the car park shuttles they operate in Belfast, or be made redundant.

robd

I'm surprised they actually went ahead with this. Thought they might have waited till the New Year to see what the effect of Ryanair's pullout from Belfast would be.

devnull

Statement on their website now:
http://www.aircoach.ie/news.article.php?ID=249

Aircoach has confirmed that is will be suspending operation of its Belfast to Dublin Airport service. The last day of operation of the service will be Friday 29th October 2010. This route had been operating since 2004 and employs 11 people to operate 10 return services daily.

Aircoach is currently in discussions with the individual employees to determine the options available to them which will either be possible alternative employment within Aircoach’s operation or redundancy.

The company’s routes from Ballsbridge, Greystones, Dalkey, Leopardstown and Cork to Dublin Airport are not affected by this decision.

Any customers who have booked tickets online for dates for travel after 29th October 2010 will be entitled a refund on the unused element of their ticket.

For further information, please contact our Customer Service Team on +353 (0) 1 844 7118 or +44 (0) 28 9033 0655.

Vic_08

devnull wrote: »

I think anyone can run a service between Republic and Ireland and Northern Ireland without a license, but they are only permitted to carry passengers cross border.

For example, if someone gets on in the north, they have to get off in the Republic, and vice versa. However they got a license from Dundalk to Dublin Airport last year, which allowed them to carry people within the republic, but as they did not have a license in Northern Ireland, anyone getting up up the north had to get off in the republic.

That is correct, it is down to EU rules governing cross-border services within the EU. Those services are run under EU licences and as long as they do not carry internal traffic are not subject to Irish or UK licencing rules.

devnull wrote: »

I would suggest the Dublin based staff will stay on, and the Northern Ireland staff will either work the car park shuttles they operate in Belfast, or be made redundant.

When they last altered the timetable on the route aircoach transferred all of the service to NI. There are no Dublin bases drivers on the route, all the staff effected are NI based.

devnull

Vic_08 wrote: »

When they last altered the timetable on the route aircoach transferred all of the service to NI. There are no Dublin bases drivers on the route, all the staff effected are NI based.

Yeah, looking at the timetable now it seems that it would be the case, as the first bus from Dublin Airport leaves an hour after the first one from Belfast arrives, and the last one from Belfast seems to make up the last service from Dublin Airport.

I've only been on it once since they changed the timetable.

AlekSmart

I've only been on it once since they changed the timetable.

When the TT was altered the rosters altered too......Hmmmmmm

I think,in management seminars and the likes,that would be described as imaginative forward planning.....:)

devnull

I would say it is pretty much a case of arranging into to keep costs down, and run the timetable with less buses, and less staff in order to try and make it viable, but as that seems not to happen they have withdrawn it.

It will be interesting to see if when this happens, that Translink or Bus Eireann change their prices now they have no competition considering that they their parent organizations also have the joint enterprise service under their umbrella.

devnull

Just in case anyone is caught out, the route finished yesterday, about 10 days earlier than originally planned.

milly4ever

With Ryanair pulling out of Belfast, I would have thought Aircoach would get an increase in business as more people would be flying from Dublin airport instead. It's a really bad time to end the service.

dub_commuter

Saw a covoy of 3 or 4 Aircoach Setra vehicles heading south down the motorway I presume from Belfast towards Dublin Airport earlier on.

Also saw a couple in Coolock a few days ago which is a bit unusual?

belfast stephen

There is a strong roumour that they might be talking on a park and ride on the saintfield road south belfast

gbob

Dual post

gbob

westtip wrote: »

I know several people who have taken the late night bus from Ballina to Airport and say it works well. My god one of our public transport providers being innovative, theres a first. the 90 euro family ticket from Ballina is not bad, when you think probably 60 euro (at least) in fuel return, and tolls on the M4 and Westlink, (12 euro) and then your parking bill, coudl this be a case of PT actually being creative to take on private cars on a cost basis?

55 euro for two adults and up to three children for a monthly family return.. great value.

belfast stephen

ulsterbus have won the contract to run that new park and ride

devnull

I thought the whole reason it went out to tender, if this is the Saintfield Road one, is because Translink did not want to run it in the first place?

Yet they then win the tender? How does that work then? Did they see that someone else was interested and suddenly changed their mind because they didn't want someone else to get in?

belfast stephen

i thought the same

dowlingm

Perhaps (no direct knowledge) their union agreement requires that any competitive tender include an offer to in-house to do the job as long as they meet tender requirement and bid lowest?

meglome

Real pity. I'm up and down to Belfast a lot at the moment and the BE bus does take longer.

One thing I did notice was Taxi drivers in Dublin city picking up people from Aircoach stops and taking them to the Airport. The GF saw it happen twice. So wasn't overly surprised when I was told Aircoach were in a spot of bother.