Are GAA Players overrated?

Pisco Sour

I came across this article about Grainne Murphy's silver medal at the European Swimming Championships.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/swimming-a-talent-worth-waiting-for-2307309.html

Below is an extract from it.

Thoughts?


And it is dedication which makes Gráinne Murphy special, the kind of dedication which graphically illustrates the extent to which truly world-class sporting performers are a breed apart. That silver medal is built on a routine which has seen her getting up at half four in the morning to train for three hours before school and then returning for more training with national coach Ronald Claes and the University of Limerick high performance squad for another four hours in the afternoon. She trains seven hours a day, six days a week, 48 weeks a year. Four years ago, she moved to Limerick so she could benefit from the facilities there.

The concept of 'sacrifice' is much invoked in Irish sport, usually in relation to sportsmen who would never in a million years put themselves through what Gráinne Murphy does. How could they? Only a very small minority of people have the fanatical drive necessary to do so, and in a small country like Ireland they are few and far between.

We're a bit naive about world-class sport in this country, perhaps because our most popular games are played by part-timers. We look at the excitement furnished by the GAA, the crowds, the sense of occasion and we confuse it with genuine achievement. We cod ourselves that, in some strange way, our footballers and hurlers are 'world-class.' But they aren't, they can never be because they don't have to be.

Yet this misunderstanding means that we fail to realise just how hard it is to make a mark at world level. Because, in bigger countries with better facilities than ours, there are also youngsters with the same kind of obsessive dedication as Gráinne Murphy. And if she slackens off by even the smallest margin, they will be the ones who inherit the world which now seems to be within her grasp. When we wonder aloud why we're not winning more Olympic medals in glamour events, we're suffering from a failure of the imagination. It can be done, but it needs the sort of determination and talent which Gráinne Murphy brings to the table, something which touches the very outer limits of human capability. Last year, when the Irish swimming squad attended a gruelling week-long high altitude training camp in the Pyrenees, their physiotherapist suggested they might want to take things easy on the final day. Murphy told the physio, who hadn't worked with the team before, "On this team, we finish a hard week hard."

dcr22B

What point are you trying to make?

They are amateur sportsmen / women who make a helluva lot of sacrifices for very little personal gain.

You should be looking at aiming this at the overpaid prima donnas across the pond who earn £100k+ a week.

It's a crap comparison as GAA players don't strive to make an impression at a world level and it's also our natural sport.

Swimming, like rallying (my favourite minority sport), will never get a good deal of support in this country due to tainted attitudes after Michelle de Bruin's scandal and the child sex abuse scandals of former swimming coaches.

dcr22B

By the way, I took one look at the author and it said it all. Sweeney is a poor journalist and likes to sensationalise a lot of things.

I've a lot of admiration for what Gráinne has achieved but to compare her regimes / achievements to those of GAA players is a nonsense.

Pisco Sour

dcr22B wrote: »

What point are you trying to make?

They are amateur sportsmen / women who make a helluva lot of sacrifices for very little personal gain.

You should be looking at aiming this at the overpaid prima donnas across the pond who earn £100k+ a week.

It's a crap comparison as GAA players don't strive to make an impression at a world level and it's also our natural sport.

Swimming, like rallying (my favourite minority sport), will never get a good deal of support in this country due to tainted attitudes after Michelle de Bruin's scandal and the child sex abuse scandals of former swimming coaches.

I'm pointing out the fact that the media and general public in this country goes on about our GAA players as if they are world class and can be compared to the likes of Brian O'Driscoll, Roy Keane, Sonia O'Sullivan etc. They cant. They aren't even close. Too many people cant realise this.

I've a good deal of time for the efforts the GAA players put in. Just a bit annoying to see them being put up on the same pedestal as people who have to beat the whole of Europe/ World to be considered successful.

deisedevil

dcr22B wrote: »

By the way, I took one look at the author and it said it all. Sweeney is a poor journalist and likes to sensationalise a lot of things.

I've a lot of admiration for what Gráinne has achieved but to compare her regimes / achievements to those of GAA players is a nonsense.

Was just about to post exactly that.

Keano

04072511 wrote: »

I'm pointing out the fact that the media and general public in this country goes on about our GAA players as if they are world class and can be compared to the likes of Brian O'Driscoll, Roy Keane, Sonia O'Sullivan etc. They cant. They aren't even close. Too many people cant realise this.

I've a good deal of time for the efforts the GAA players put in. Just a bit annoying to see them being put up on the same pedestal as people who have to beat the whole of Europe/ World to be considered successful.

Why can't gaa players be compared with these people? Because they don't get paid? For instance Henry Sheflin is one of the greatest hurlers of all time. So what if they game is only played in a few countries. He excels in his sport same as way as Roy Keane and Brian Brian O'Driscoll did and do respectively. We constantly hear how great Michael Jordan was. Why can't Henry be great?

I just used Henry as an example, there are plenty more GAA greats.

Mushy

04072511 wrote: »

I came across this article about Grainne Murphy's silver medal at the European Swimming Championships.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/swimming-a-talent-worth-waiting-for-2307309.html

Below is an extract from it.

Thoughts?


And it is dedication which makes Gráinne Murphy special, the kind of dedication which graphically illustrates the extent to which truly world-class sporting performers are a breed apart. That silver medal is built on a routine which has seen her getting up at half four in the morning to train for three hours before school and then returning for more training with national coach Ronald Claes and the University of Limerick high performance squad for another four hours in the afternoon. She trains seven hours a day, six days a week, 48 weeks a year. Four years ago, she moved to Limerick so she could benefit from the facilities there.

The concept of 'sacrifice' is much invoked in Irish sport, usually in relation to sportsmen who would never in a million years put themselves through what Gráinne Murphy does. How could they? Only a very small minority of people have the fanatical drive necessary to do so, and in a small country like Ireland they are few and far between.

We're a bit naive about world-class sport in this country, perhaps because our most popular games are played by part-timers. We look at the excitement furnished by the GAA, the crowds, the sense of occasion and we confuse it with genuine achievement. We cod ourselves that, in some strange way, our footballers and hurlers are 'world-class.' But they aren't, they can never be because they don't have to be.

Yet this misunderstanding means that we fail to realise just how hard it is to make a mark at world level. Because, in bigger countries with better facilities than ours, there are also youngsters with the same kind of obsessive dedication as Gráinne Murphy. And if she slackens off by even the smallest margin, they will be the ones who inherit the world which now seems to be within her grasp. When we wonder aloud why we're not winning more Olympic medals in glamour events, we're suffering from a failure of the imagination. It can be done, but it needs the sort of determination and talent which Gráinne Murphy brings to the table, something which touches the very outer limits of human capability. Last year, when the Irish swimming squad attended a gruelling week-long high altitude training camp in the Pyrenees, their physiotherapist suggested they might want to take things easy on the final day. Murphy told the physio, who hadn't worked with the team before, "On this team, we finish a hard week hard."

To finish of that sentence, it should read something like:

'...who work in [insert profession here] to earn a living, that allows them to travel to training, to better themselves and make the sport the spectacle that it is'.

Chip and shoulder comes to mind there. My cousin, who'd be same age as Gráinne Murphy, did a much tougher regime in sydney over the years. Fair play to them, they deserve their rewards. Doesn't mean ya take a pop at GAA players though.

dcr22B

04072511 wrote: »

I'm pointing out the fact that the media and general public in this country goes on about our GAA players as if they are world class and can be compared to the likes of Brian O'Driscoll, Roy Keane, Sonia O'Sullivan etc. They cant. They aren't even close. Too many people cant realise this.

I'm sorry but that's total rubbish.

GAA players are well able to compete on a fitness level with AFL players when they play the International Rules series despite the fact that most of them have to hold down a full time job yet train two/three nights a week and play matches at the weekend. The personal sacrifices that these guys make is immense and they don't have the backing of Swimming Ireland or Sports Council grants (well, the pittance that the GPA managed to get from some of them).

I'm impressed by Gráinne's commitment to the sport but she has a lot of backing behind her judging by the fact that she upped sticks and moved to Limerick. She'll hopefully bring us back a few medals from London in 2012 but to insult GAA players in this way is a bit out of order.

You try telling the Dublin players who trained at 6am and 6pm back on frozen pitches in January that they shouldn't be considered "world class" for showing that level of commitment and you'll be put in your place quick enough. These lads and many others who play inter county and club are "world class" in my book!

tom thum

dcr22B wrote: »

What point are you trying to make?

They are amateur sportsmen / women who make a helluva lot of sacrifices for very little personal gain.

You should be looking at aiming this at the overpaid prima donnas across the pond who earn £100k+ a week.

It's a crap comparison as GAA players don't strive to make an impression at a world level and it's also our natural sport.

Swimming, like rallying (my favourite minority sport), will never get a good deal of support in this country due to tainted attitudes after Michelle de Bruin's scandal and the child sex abuse scandals of former swimming coaches.

would you not think rallying has good support in this country?

dcr22B

tom thum wrote: »

would you not think rallying has good support in this country?

It has great support in this country but not from the media. That's for another thread and forum entirely though.

dcr22B

By the OP, did you seriously think that you were going to get a favourable response from GAA forum users with a thread title like that anyway?

Bill2673

With a population of three million in a global population of six billion, how many world class athletes should we have?

1....2....?

I can't think of any right now to be honest.

(ps, I don't include golfers or jockeys as athletes; thats my opinion).

I think the closest we have is maybe Derval.

rpurfield

for whats considered a sports mad country we are seriously under funded in giving athletes that compete on a world stage the right facilities to train in.but again thats another debate for another forum

Pisco Sour

Keano A Legend wrote: »

Why can't gaa players be compared with these people? Because they don't get paid? For instance Henry Sheflin is one of the greatest hurlers of all time. So what if they game is only played in a few countries. He excels in his sport same as way as Roy Keane and Brian Brian O'Driscoll did and do respectively. We constantly hear how great Michael Jordan was. Why can't Henry be great?

I just used Henry as an example, there are plenty more GAA greats.

Ah here now. Henry Shefflin is an outstanding hurler. But that is all. An outstanding HURLER. To compare him to Michael Jordon, one of the most iconic sportspeople in the history of sport is laughable IMO.

The reason I say that GAA players cant be considered World Class is because it is so much easier to reach the top in GAA. Hurling is played to a decent level in no more than 10 counties, 11 tops, within 1 very tiny country. Football is played in every country in the world. Basketball is very global aswell. Massive in many parts of Europe, USA, Latin America and China.

It is so much harder for the likes of Roy Keane, Derval O'Rourke, Grainne Murphy etc to each the top of their respective sports than it is for Henry Shefflin to reach the top of his, and anybody who cannot see that is blinded by bias.

For most sports, winning an All Ireland is the start of something, while in GAA winning an All Ireland is as far as they will ever go. That is the difference. There are All Ireland Champions in every sport, we just dont bother to make a big deal of them in other sports because there are bigger fish to fry.

I like GAA, have watched the sport for years but as a follower of many sports I'm trying to look at this objectively and IMO I think GAA players are hyped up no end. It is only a debate. Everyone is free to disagree.

P.S. The comment regards the Aussie Rules is a bit irrelevant. They dont put out their first choice players and having been down in Australia and spoken to AFL fans I can tell you the International Rules is not taken seriously down there at all. It is an end of season holiday for the players who bother playing.

Bill2673

04072511 wrote: »

Ah here now. Henry Shefflin is an outstanding hurler. But that is all. An outstanding HURLER. To compare him to Michael Jordon, one of the most iconic sportspeople in the history of sport is laughable IMO.

The reason I say that GAA players cant be considered World Class is because it is so much easier to reach the top in GAA. Hurling is played to a decent level in no more than 10 counties, 11 tops. Football is played in every country in the world. Basketball is very global aswell. Massive in many parts of Europe, Latin America and China.

It is so much harder for the likes of Roy Keane, Derval O'Rourke, Grainne Murphy etc to each the top of their respective sports than it is for Henry Shefflin to reach the top of his, and anybody who cannot see that is blinded by bias.

For most sports, winning an All Ireland is the start of something, while in GAA winning an All Ireland is as far as they will ever go. That is the difference. There are All Ireland Champions in every sport, we just dont bother to make a big deal of them in other sports because there are bigger fish to fry.

I like GAA, have watched the sport for years but as a follower of many sports I'm trying to look at this objectively and IMO I think GAA players are hyped up no end. It is only a debate. Everyone is free to disagree.

P.S. The comment regards the Aussie Rules is a bit irrelevant. They dont put out their first choice players and having been down in Australia and spoken to AFL fans I can tell you the International Rules is not taken seriously down there at all. It is an end of season holiday for the players who bother playing.

I think a better way of looking at it is this:

Roughly the same amount of people in this country play GAA and Soccer. Roughly the same amount play Rugby and Hurling. As such, the talent pool that Rugby generates will be roughly the same as that of Hurling. If Brian O'Driscoll is a once in a lifetime Irish Rugby player, then Shefflin is a once in a lifetime Hurler. Thats the only way they can be compared.

adrian522

Thread Fail.

Gophur

adrian522 wrote: »

Thread Fail.

Is that some sort of Internet lingo for something?

Pisco Sour

Bill2673 wrote: »

With a population of three million in a global population of six billion, how many world class athletes should we have?

1....2....?

I can't think of any right now to be honest.

(ps, I don't include golfers or jockeys as athletes; thats my opinion).

I think the closest we have is maybe Derval.

Derval O'Rourke, David Gillick, Olive Loughnane and Robert Heffernan are all World Class athletes.

Grainne Murphy in Swimming.

Numerous golfers (irrelevant that you dont personally count it as a sport as it is actually a sport)

Nicolas Roche in Cycling

Katie Taylor in Boxing

bullpost

One thing we can be sure of is that those who play GAA do so purely for the love of the game as there is no substantial financial benefit in doing so.
The same can't be said of Athletics so the article is flawed.

Gophur

dcr22B wrote: »

By the way, I took one look at the author and it said it all. Sweeney is a poor journalist and likes to sensationalise a lot of things.

.......

Big time. What a plonker, of the highest order. I ignore anything written by him, now. I was unfortunate to have read his pathetic effort at a fictional novel, where he stitched the life stories of four well known people and tried to infer they were all interconnected.

His sporting knowledge is limited, his opinions worthless.

KenJG

It is highly regarded by experts and sports psychologists alike that being a top sports person is transferable in that what seperates these people from "ordinary folk" is embedded in their genetic makeup, is unbelievable dedication to their chosen fields, an uncompromising willingness to win and most importantly natural talent.
Eg. Jason Sherlock was a gifted soccer player but dedicated most of his time to football, what if this was reversed could he have been a world class soccer player?
Same could be said of Kieran Donaghy in Basketball, Shane Horgan could have went the other way from Rugby to football.
So can Gaa players be regarde as world class? Maybe not but only because the GAA is not a worldwide sport. But top class most certainly!

Pisco Sour

Bill2673 wrote: »

I think a better way of looking at it is this:

Roughly the same amount of people in this country play GAA and Soccer. Roughly the same amount play Rugby and Hurling. As such, the talent pool that Rugby generates will be roughly the same as that of Hurling. If Brian O'Driscoll is a once in a lifetime Irish Rugby player, then Shefflin is a once in a lifetime Hurler. Thats the only way they can be compared.

Maybe, but the difference between O'Driscoll and Shefflin is that after becoming the best in Ireland, O'Driscoll then has to go futher to be considered a great. He has to become one of the best in the world, while Shefflin's legendary status is secured merely from becoming the best in Ireland.

Rugby maybe isnt the best example though as that isn't played by very many countries in the World. 10 countries max.

Football and Athletics are the two most worldwide sports. The competition is fierce and to get to the top is extremely difficult. That is why we dont see very many world class Irish football players. Because they have to shine out among millions of others from every corner of the world.

Pisco Sour

bullpost wrote: »

One thing we can be sure of is that those who play GAA do so purely for the love of the game as there is no substantial financial benefit in doing so.
The same can't be said of Athletics so the article is flawed.

I'm sorry but that is bullsh1t. Derval O'Rourke got her funding cut from 40k a year to 20k a year after the Beijing Olympics and she lost her sponsorship with SPAR. She was living on close to minimum wage and there were times when she struggled to have enough for basics such as food.

Numerous Irish athletes dont even get funded. Ailis McSweeney travelled to Brussels at her own expense to get the qualifying time for the European Championships this year.

These guys also do it for the love of the sport.

Have a listen to David Gillicks devestation after losing the world indoors this year. He broke down on the radio. It means so much to him and is so passionate about the sport.

Other sportspeople are capable of loving their sport aswell ya know!! :rolleyes: The "passion" isnt unique to the GAA.

Pisco Sour

KenJG wrote: »

It is highly regarded by experts and sports psychologists alike that being a top sports person is transferable in that what seperates these people from "ordinary folk" is embedded in their genetic makeup, is unbelievable dedication to their chosen fields, an uncompromising willingness to win and most importantly natural talent.
Eg. Jason Sherlock was a gifted soccer player but dedicated most of his time to football, what if this was reversed could he have been a world class soccer player?
Same could be said of Kieran Donaghy in Basketball, Shane Horgan could have went the other way from Rugby to football.
So can Gaa players be regarde as world class? Maybe not but only because the GAA is not a worldwide sport. But top class most certainly!

Interesting point. But if we look at it another way. What IF GAA was a worldwide sport. How do we know the Americans, Canadians, Australians, Kenyans, Argentinians etc etc etc wouldnt be better than us if the sport was a global game and not confined to one tiny nation on the west of Europe?

who what when

04072511 wrote: »

Interesting point. But if we look at it another way. What IF GAA was a worldwide sport. How do we know the Americans, Canadians, Australians, Kenyans, Argentinians etc etc etc wouldnt be better than us if the sport was a global game and not confined to one tiny nation on the west of Europe?

If it was an international sport we wouldnt be the best or even close
We'd probably be ranked 20-30

dcr22B

04072511 wrote: »

Have a listen to David Gillicks devestation after losing the world indoors this year. He broke down on the radio. It means so much to him and is so passionate about the sport.

And GAA players aren't passionate?

Try telling that to the devestated Dublin players at the final whistle in Croke Park last Sunday.

I am struggling to find out what you are trying to achieve by coming on to a GAA forum and asking a question like that.

As a GAA fan (and I'm sure I'm not alone here), we'll defend our icons to the last.

You're taking one throwaway comment by a journalist and turning into something that you seem to just want to bait with a stick:

We're a bit naive about world-class sport in this country, perhaps because our most popular games are played by part-timers. We look at the excitement furnished by the GAA, the crowds, the sense of occasion and we confuse it with genuine achievement. We cod ourselves that, in some strange way, our footballers and hurlers are 'world-class.' But they aren't, they can never be because they don't have to be.

I don't think you'll find that GAA fans call the likes of Henry Shefflin, Colm Cooper and Bernard Brogan "world class" because they only perform on one stage and it's a big enough stage at that with games being followed all over the world by ex-pats.

Foreigners who have never experienced the sport are amazed by how AMATEUR sportsmen can exude such stamina, commitment and performance in lightning fast games (hurling especially)

Your argument about the International Rules might have some merit but the fact that we are able to compete with FULL TIME professionals speaks a lot for the commitment and preparation that GAA players put in these days for very little financial or personal reward.

I don't want this to turn into an Athletics/Swimming v GAA argument as both sports have their merits and it's great to see the likes of Derval, Gráinne and David Gillick represent our small nation so well by fightinmg above their weight given the dearth of facilities we have in this country.

Pisco Sour

dcr22B wrote: »

And GAA players aren't passionate?

Try telling that to the devestated Dublin players at the final whistle in Croke Park last Sunday.

Hang on, where did I say that the GAA players aren't passionate. You are getting very defensive there.

I was merely stating a point that people in other sports can be just as passionate about their sports, in response to a fairly clueless comment by another poster that people only do athletics for financial gain.

dcr22B

04072511 wrote: »

What IF GAA was a worldwide sport.

What IF? WTF?

GAA will never be an international sport, it doesn't try to promote itself as an international sport. Granted it's played internationally but not to the same intensity that it's palyed at home. New York and London's performances in the Connacht Championship in recent years haven't exactly set the world on fire and to be hoenst, you'll never have a settled squad of players in these places OR anywhere in the world due to the emigration/repatriation statistics attached to Irish people.

An amateur sport like Gaelic football/hurling will never have the allure that sports like soccer and rugby enjoy so your point is completely superfluous to this thread.

Magill

04072511 wrote: »

Interesting point. But if we look at it another way. What IF GAA was a worldwide sport. How do we know the Americans, Canadians, Australians, Kenyans, Argentinians etc etc etc wouldnt be better than us if the sport was a global game and not confined to one tiny nation on the west of Europe?

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder, GAA are our national sports, like baseball and american football are the national sports in america. The reason our football and hurling stars are so well regarded is because of how we love the sport... athletics is boring... im sorry but it is, besides the 100m, i couldn't name you more than 5 athletes in the world. Are you seriously suggesting that we shouldn't follow the GAA with as much passion because its not as "Tough" for those athletes to reach the pinnacle in their sports as other "WORLD" sports ?



I also have no doubts that many of the top GAA stars would be top soccer players (Im not saying world beaters, but even championship players in the EPL are top players)or athletes in other fields if there was no football or hurling in this country. We have had quite alot of top class soccer players over the years, and compared to football in this country... soccer has quite poor foundations.

Pisco Sour

Magill wrote: »

athletics is boring... im sorry but it is, besides the 100m, i couldn't name you more than 5 athletes in the world.

Well that is nothing but personal opinion and is neither here nor there with regards the topic being discussed.

dcr22B

04072511 wrote: »

Hang on, where did I say that the GAA players aren't passionate. You are getting very defensive there.

Too right, I'm getting defensive. You still haven't put across a valid point to your original argument to me. I'm finding it very hard to understand what you were trying to achieve with this thread so if I'm misunderstanding the crux of your argument, can you please enlighten me?

You're stating that GAA players are overrated but you're comparing them to something that they're not even trying to be - "world class".

Lest we forget that Pat Spillane and Bernard Brogan Sr won the Superstars series back in 1978/79 and went to the World Finals up against professional sportsmen and far from disgraced themselves given that they would not have had the same level of funding (if any at all to be fair) or time to train themselves as the professionals that they were up against.

Magill

04072511 wrote: »

Well that is nothing but personal opinion and is neither here nor there with regards the topic being discussed.

Well then... what is the point your trying to make ? OH RIGHT, i completely destroyed your point with the rest of my post that you fail to reply to.

Please, just delete this thread as its nothing but a troll from some athletes fanboy.

Pisco Sour

Magill wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that we shouldn't follow the GAA with as much passion because its not as "Tough" for those athletes to reach the pinnacle in their sports as other "WORLD" sports ?

Nope again, another person putting words into my mouth. I never said that people shouldnt be following GAA with as much passion.

What I am questioning is whether the Irish public overhypes GAA players with regards to people in other sports who compete internationally. It is a fair question, and it is a public forum so I am fully entitled to come on here and raise the question. Everyone is free to disagree, though some are not very good at doing so judging by some of the replies (comparing Shefflin to Jordon being the most ludicrous)

Pisco Sour

dcr22B wrote: »

You're stating that GAA players are overrated but you're comparing them to something that they're not even trying to be - "world class".

Overrated in the eyes of the public. You may see things more logically but there are numerous people in this country who see the best GAA players on a par, if not better, than the best of our international sportstars.

I'm sure the actual GAA players don't think this mind you. This is merely me questioning the public's perception of GAA players. I think personally they are hyped up by the Irish media and people. You are free to agree or disagree.

dcr22B

04072511 wrote: »

What I am questioning is whether the Irish public overhypes GAA players with regards to people in other sports who compete internationally. It is a fair question, and it is a public forum so I am fully entitled to come on here and raise the question. Everyone is free to disagree, though some are not very good at doing so judging by some of the replies (comparing Shefflin to Jordon being the most ludicrous)

Thanks for clarifying this as I wasn't sure what you were asking.

I've never compared GAA players to EPL players, athletes etc etc because in my eyes it's pointless. Any sensible GAA fan will compare the more higher profile players to their peers or their predecessors.

I agree with you on this much though, the Shefflin v Jordan argument is meaningless. King Henry all the way

adrian522

04072511 = Troll!

dcr22B

04072511 wrote: »

I think personally they are hyped up by the Irish media and people.

As they are our national sport, there's always going to be more column inches devoted to the likes of GAA over swimming and athletics. This year, for the first time in many years, there was very little hype surrounding the Dublin footballers (all generated by the Dublin based media who are mostly journalists from outside the capital in any case)

I wouldn't be a fan of either but if you asked me what stick out in my mind in relation to either, the first thing that comes to my mind is drugs and that taints my view of the sports somewhat as there have never been any high profile drugs related cases in GAA (we'll ignore Aidan O'Mahony's Salbutamol incident as the guy is an asthmatic). I loved watching the Olympics in 1988 and 1992 but thereafter, it was just one scandal after another after another and I'd say the amount of races I've watched since would struggle to make it into double figures.

In the unfortunate all too few cases where Irish athletes genuinely achieve something, it's something I love to see as any Irish sports success abroad is to be welcomed.

Magill

I dont think anyone considers them world beaters tho, how can they ? Again your taking something and twisting it how you want. What has how we hype them got to do with anything ? ofc they're going to be more hyped than athletics and swimming athletes, the support for those sports is very small here, who wants to read a load of **** about something we dont follow ? The majority of this country follow football/hurling/soccer and rugby therefore the media is obviously going to exploit that..... are you stupid or are you just trying to get on peoples nerves ?

Its the same with everything in the media... You don't see your local paper printing **** about basketball or some other random ****e that is bigger news on a global scale.

We consider our county players the best... because thats what they are.

thebigredone

I've got to agree that no athlete can be called truely world class unless they compete on an international, worldwide level! GAA players at the top level cannot have their commitment, passion and effort questioned, as mentioned in a previous comment they sacrifice alot and train a phenomenal amount just to pull on their county jersey! However, they can't be called "world class athletes", because they don't compete globally! I'd compare it to sports like American football which have the advantage of being professional but have no real international significance!

KenJG

04072511 wrote: »

Overrated in the eyes of the public. You may see things more logically but there are numerous people in this country who see the best GAA players on a par, if not better, than the best of our international sportstars.

I'm sure the actual GAA players don't think this mind you. This is merely me questioning the public's perception of GAA players. I think personally they are hyped up by the Irish media and people. You are free to agree or disagree.

The public perception of Gaa players is your most relevant point here.
It would only be the GAA following public that would consider these players on a par with other sports stars in this country.
As would golf fans with say Padraig Harrington, Rugby fans with Brian O'Driscoll and soccer fans with Shay Given.
If you truly love a sport, as I do GAA, these sporting greats will be your heroes and no matter what anyone says you will reveer these great men and women and put them up there with the greats of other sports. My heroes just happen to be from the game I love Chiaran Whelan, Jason Sherlock, Keith Barr and Charlie Redmond to name but a few and will I consider them great and on a par with the likes of the aboved named? Without a a doubt 100% yes.
Now I have two young sons and will their heroes turn out to be Bernard Brogan or Rory O'Carrol, I hope yes but just don't know. That is what makes the essence of sport great and those who participate at the highest level even greater. The ability to have the hopes dreams and expectations of thousands at your feet, and the ability to complete split families apart!!

rebel girl 15

04072511 wrote: »

Nope again, another person putting words into my mouth. I never said that people shouldnt be following GAA with as much passion.

What I am questioning is whether the Irish public overhypes GAA players with regards to people in other sports who compete internationally. It is a fair question, and it is a public forum so I am fully entitled to come on here and raise the question. Everyone is free to disagree, though some are not very good at doing so judging by some of the replies (comparing Shefflin to Jordon being the most ludicrous)

No they don't. The GAA brings people together more that single athletes competing at international level. That said, when any international medal such as Murphy's is won, there is hype. GAA is the primary sport of Ireland, and will take precedence over other sports.

Comparing the GAA to individual athletes is ridiculous, the best thing to compare it to is the Irish soccer team or rugby team - when they were doing well, and competing at international level, there was huge hype from all corners. GAA people admire GAA players mostly, same with young rugby players looking up to O Gara and O Driscoll as their idols etc.

hisholinessnb

I've played both soccer and GAA for years and appreciate the skill sets needed for both.
To compare Irelands finest (if such a thing can be done in different sports) I would have to pit the likes of Robbie Keane and Damien Duff versus the likes of Gooch Cooper and Bernard Brogan.
From personal experience in both sports the skills levels possessed by Cooper and Brogan are far superior than that of Irelands best soccer players.

Thats just my personal opinion from somebody who has played for years in both sports. You can claim one doesnt play internationally but they all play against the best their sport has to offer.

hisholinessnb

04072511 wrote: »

What I am questioning is whether the Irish public overhypes GAA players with regards to people in other sports who compete internationally. It is a fair question, and it is a public forum so I am fully entitled to come on here and raise the question.

I don' think when the Irish public hypes a GAA player they are thinking of people playing other sports at the time. Whatever your favourite sport is, you will hype up the best players in the game.
Its natural that GAA fans will hype the best GAA players, ditto for all other sports.

FeistyOneYouAre

In some respects they certainly are over-rated. I know a runner who came ninth in the world this year in a World Junior Championships. He was the third European. He is getting a scholarship to DCU but is being put 4th on their list for the elite scholarship which means he wont be on as good a scholarship as the three ahead of him. Now two of the lads ahead of him are gaelic footballers and the other is a soccer player. I really don't understand how a gaelic footballer, or a domestic soccer player can be rated higher than an international athlete. He trains 6 days a week, 48 weeks a year, as well as having to go abroad most weeks during the summer to find races at a good level. No disrespect to any top gaelic footballers or hurlers but to compare them to an international athlete is beyond me.

dcr22B

FeistyOneYouAre wrote: »

No disrespect to any top gaelic footballers or hurlers but to compare them to an international athlete is beyond me.

Who's comparing them? I don't see any GAA fans comparing Bernard Brogan to David Gillick.

It's DCU's choice who they put up for elite scholarships so don't be blaming the GAA players as they could show more potential than the athlete over a longer term.

bullpost

The point I was making was that there is no substantial financial reward for those who reach the top in GAA so the motivation is always pure.
The same can't be said for athletics so therefore its a reasonable assumption that some athletes will be at least partially motivated by the money.

04072511 wrote: »

I'm sorry but that is bullsh1t. Derval O'Rourke got her funding cut from 40k a year to 20k a year after the Beijing Olympics and she lost her sponsorship with SPAR. She was living on close to minimum wage and there were times when she struggled to have enough for basics such as food.

Numerous Irish athletes dont even get funded. Ailis McSweeney travelled to Brussels at her own expense to get the qualifying time for the European Championships this year.

These guys also do it for the love of the sport.

Have a listen to David Gillicks devestation after losing the world indoors this year. He broke down on the radio. It means so much to him and is so passionate about the sport.

Other sportspeople are capable of loving their sport aswell ya know!! :rolleyes: The "passion" isnt unique to the GAA.

hisholinessnb

I think the question should not be are GAA players overhyped, more so are the athletes and swimmers underhyped?

KenJG

FeistyOneYouAre wrote: »

In some respects they certainly are over-rated. I know a runner who came ninth in the world this year in a World Junior Championships. He was the third European. He is getting a scholarship to DCU but is being put 4th on their list for the elite scholarship which means he wont be on as good a scholarship as the three ahead of him. Now two of the lads ahead of him are gaelic footballers and the other is a soccer player. I really don't understand how a gaelic footballer, or a domestic soccer player can be rated higher than an international athlete. He trains 6 days a week, 48 weeks a year, as well as having to go abroad most weeks during the summer to find races at a good level. No disrespect to any top gaelic footballers or hurlers but to compare them to an international athlete is beyond me.

This in simple terms comes down to profile and is a credit to the GAA in my opinion. Which sport has a higher profile, track and field sports or Gaelic games. I'm afraid in this country there will only ever be one winner.

Bill2673

04072511 wrote: »

Derval O'Rourke, David Gillick, Olive Loughnane and Robert Heffernan are all World Class athletes.

Grainne Murphy in Swimming.

Numerous golfers (irrelevant that you dont personally count it as a sport as it is actually a sport)

Nicolas Roche in Cycling

Katie Taylor in Boxing

How many of the athletes have made an olympic final? (And I'd be a big fan of our athletes, I'm just asking the question).

Is Nicolas Roche in the top 20 in the world? I don't think so based on rankings. I think Daniel Martin is ranked higher....might be wrong there.

Grainne Murphy..... would she make an Olympic final? (not to knock her achievement or potential).

Katie Taylor.....I just dont see Women's boxing as a sport thats mature enough to have a world class field, though obviously she is the best at what she does.

Final point: I am talking about athletes. Am not talking about sports. Falconry is a sport. Clay pidgeon shooting is a sport. Chess is a sport. John Daly is not an athlete no matter what way you cut it.

FeistyOneYouAre

dcr22B wrote: »

Who's comparing them? I don't see any GAA fans comparing Bernard Brogan to David Gillick.

It's DCU's choice who they put up for elite scholarships so don't be blaming the GAA players as they could show more potential than the athlete over a longer term.

They do get compared. RTE's Sportsperson of the Year for example. Henry Shefflin beat Derval O'Rourke for the award in 2006. She won a world gold medal. I presume she won a gold All-Ireland as well which is what Henry won. The thread is called "Are GAA Players overrated?". I'm saying they sometimes are.

Bill2673

04072511 wrote: »

Maybe, but the difference between O'Driscoll and Shefflin is that after becoming the best in Ireland, O'Driscoll then has to go futher to be considered a great. He has to become one of the best in the world, while Shefflin's legendary status is secured merely from becoming the best in Ireland.

Rugby maybe isnt the best example though as that isn't played by very many countries in the World. 10 countries max.

Football and Athletics are the two most worldwide sports. The competition is fierce and to get to the top is extremely difficult. That is why we dont see very many world class Irish football players. Because they have to shine out among millions of others from every corner of the world.

Fair point.

The counter point would be; look at New Zealand rugby players. They are the finished product by the time they reach the international stage.

I would regard New Zealand rugby and Kilkenny hurling in much the same way.

I agree with you on football and athletics.