Applied for over 140 primary jobs but not one interview?

bigpink

Hi
My sister is just out of Mary I and has applied for over 140 jobs and counting from that teaching website and paper adverts.Has gotten back 4 letters and 2 emails but no interviews
Any advice for her cause its getting her really down?

gaeilgegrinds1

I felt really sorry for your sister when I read this. First thing, get someone in marketing or business to critically assess her CV, it is obviously letting her down. Secondly, let her start doing other things which she can then add to her CV, Samaritans counsellor, train a team etc...they all count. Thirdly, she is not alone. My mother as a principal is inundated with applications and presently has no jobs to be filled. Best of luck

bigpink

Well she has told me that in college they had a day on how to do CV'S and cover letters and then they changed to a stanadard template?

Lord TSC

While she obviously has to make sure her CV and such is in check, I wouldn't take it personally. She's not alone in sending out numerous CVs to numerous schools and they can only interview so many people.

I know the example we were given on our PGDE was that a single position can draw in 90 applications, and they can only interview who they think is the top five or so.

bigpink

I know theres loads applying but shes been taking to people from her college and alot have got at least one interview and a few 3 interviews
Any other advice its 23rd of August now hardly any hope now is there?

dory

Ah there is hope, people always get sick she might get some sick leave? But really, the UK is the best bet at the moment. We're lucky there's a place so close for jobs.

What does your sister do that would get her an interview? She must have been told in Mary I that it's all about being male/playing an instrument/playing a sport/being a big GAA head/having worked in Africa/speaks great Irish etc.

I know two principals who give the usual, summers on a J1 in America, 2.1 degree, the brush off because they don't stand out. She needs to be attractive. Maybe she could spend this year either working abroad getting experience or working on herself to make her more interesting.

Dionysus

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

While she obviously has to make sure her CV and such is in check, I wouldn't take it personally. She's not alone in sending out numerous CVs to numerous schools and they can only interview so many people.

I know the example we were given on our PGDE was that a single position can draw in 90 applications, and they can only interview who they think is the top five or so.

Make that 500. Seriously.

Dionysus

bigpink wrote: »

Hi
My sister is just out of Mary I and has applied for over 140 jobs and counting from that teaching website and paper adverts.Has gotten back 4 letters and 2 emails but no interviews
Any advice for her cause its getting her really down?

My experience. Cold call on every deputy principal/principal in the area you want a job. Obviously, ask the name of that person from the kids outside or somewhere.

It sounds clichéd but so much of job hunting depends on luck. I happened to talk to a person, who happened to be a teacher, at a get together the other day. I was saying I was looking for a job, she asked my subjects and then told me about an imminent position in a school. I forwarded the school my cv, met the deputy principal and I'm starting there in the next week on a 22-hour week (albeit only for a short period at the moment).

Get up. Knock on any door you can (and changing the cv would be a good idea).

LittleWhiteDog

I agree with changing the CV, we had a position to fill in our school and I was shocked at the state of some of the applications, wrong spelling on a teaching job application! There is a standard application but most schools will also ask for a CV also and if they do make sure your sister sends one as we got about 100 applications with no CV that went straight into the 'No' pile as they obviously didn't take the time to read the advertisement. I know your sister must be feeling really down in the dumps but she still has time to get a job, there will be a number of teachers who won't return to their posts for one reason or another this September and her best bet is to get in somewhere subbing for a start. I know a lot of people who got a full time position through sub work in our school so tell her not to give up hope!

LittleWhiteDog

Dionysus wrote: »

My experience. Cold call on every deputy principal/principal in the area you want a job. Obviously, ask the name of that person from the kids outside or somewhere.

Just wanted to add that I would really discourage calling in on any principal during the month of September, it is such a busy time of year I can imagine that in most schools this would actually go against you to be honest.

Dionysus

LittleWhiteDog wrote: »

Just wanted to add that I would really discourage calling in on any principal during the month of September, it is such a busy time of year I can imagine that in most schools this would actually go against you to be honest.

Busy or not if you're not out there you'll get diddly squat. There is much more going on and more chances of a vacancy, even temporarily, as a result. Many people in teaching jobs hang on until late August before handing in their notice in order to get full holiday benefits and allow them to think their decision over during the summer months. By saying you won't go near a school in September you are ruling yourself out of any opportunity - which is, of course, great for anybody with a bit of get up and go. As for thinking having a bit of get up and go in any month would go against you, you would be wrong, very very wrong. Almost every day a school needs somebody to supervise/substitute. This could be your day.

Rule of thumb for any out-of-work teacher: principals aren't going to come knocking on your door out of the blue.

bigpink

Well she has worked very hard at the job hunting,i dont thing any thing will come up at this stage or even 2 years

rainbowtrout

bigpink wrote: »

Well she has worked very hard at the job hunting,i dont thing any thing will come up at this stage or even 2 years

You never know. The summer I finished college I spent my time filling in application forms and sending off CVs for job applications. I had 4 or 5 interviews but nothing came of them. I applied for the job I'm currently in, in the first week of September, got the job in which I was made permanent straight away (that doesn't happen anymore) and started work the following week (9/11 day so I'll remember it). I'm a secondary school teacher.

Competition is fierce out there at the moment for teaching jobs, so your sister will probably have to do a bit of leg work as well as sending out CVs. Tell her to apply for everything, 1 year contracts, maternity leaves, subbing. Some positions may be short term but can often lead to something longterm. Go into schools like has been suggested, meet the principal and leave her CV, if they can put a face to the CV and sees she's local and available for work, they might think of her quicker.

A friend I work with got her job like that. She dropped her CV into the school in March a few years ago not thinking she'd get any work, told them she was local and would be available for any hours going and could be in the school with 15-20 mins notice. She got subbing the following week which continued until the school holidays that year. Three months on a teacher broke her arm just before we came back to school. My friend had the same subjects and was given a ring, she got the job for 6 weeks. Meanwhile during that 6 week period, a teacher unexpectedly retired, also the same subjects, she got the job and now has a CID 5 years later.

It's not going to be easy but she will have to go after everything that's available.

spurious

A first aid qualification is always worth having and doesn't take long to get.

teddy12

I am a newly qualified teacher and I know that myself and loads and loads of my friends are in the same boat here. We all have sent at least 140 applications and none of us have had interviews. Some of use have scored really high marks in college and teaching practice and loads of us have extra courses, people have looked over our cvs and cover letters but to no avail. Thant being siad, if you are male you are still almost guaranteed a job!!

What happened to the extra 600 jobs announced???

I wouldnt advise anyone going into teaching these days at all

LittleWhiteDog

I really think anybody looking for a job shouldn't lose hope, in our school we often have somebody hand in their notice very late (sometimes the day before school starts) and we have a postion to fill at short notice. There is always sick leave/maternity cover too so just apply for absolutely everything!

tvnutz

I am in the same boat,but with secondary teaching. Finished the PGDE in May, sent out so many CV's, applied for whatever jobs were advertised. Not one interview. It is really depressing to be honest. I am just going to have to go around to all the local schools this week and say I am available for supervision work,and if I get that then perhaps if some subbing is needed during the year I might be able to grab that.

But it is quite depressing that after a 3 year degree, a masters and a PGDE there is just nothing for me to go for.

spurious

The subbing -> small contract ->bigger contract leading to CID is the way most people get jobs now. The straight from college into a full-time job is a rarity these days.

Most advertised jobs already have someone in situ - maybe on a small contract for a few years already in the school, so people say the jobs are 'already gone'.

I cannot understand why the PGDE and teaching colleges keep taking in so many. There haven't been jobs for years.

rainbowtrout

teddy12 wrote: »

I am a newly qualified teacher and I know that myself and loads and loads of my friends are in the same boat here. We all have sent at least 140 applications and none of us have had interviews. Some of use have scored really high marks in college and teaching practice and loads of us have extra courses, people have looked over our cvs and cover letters but to no avail. Thant being siad, if you are male you are still almost guaranteed a job!!

What happened to the extra 600 jobs announced???

I wouldnt advise anyone going into teaching these days at all

Most of those jobs are going to existing teachers who are on part time hours. Very few new positions will be created I'd imagine.

kraggy

teddy12 wrote: »

I am a newly qualified teacher and I know that myself and loads and loads of my friends are in the same boat here. We all have sent at least 140 applications and none of us have had interviews. Some of use have scored really high marks in college and teaching practice and loads of us have extra courses, people have looked over our cvs and cover letters but to no avail. Thant being siad, if you are male you are still almost guaranteed a job!!

What happened to the extra 600 jobs announced???

I wouldnt advise anyone going into teaching these days at all

That's no longer true, regarding better chances for blokes. I've sent out loads of apps, had good teaching practice grades, brilliant reference from a prinicpal, and no job yet. Not even an interview.

It really pisses me off when people make that age-old cliche about guys walking into jobs. Like we don't have to put in as much effort. I've worked bloody hard to get my qualificaition and to get a job. Feeling more and more disheartened by the day.

gaeilgegrinds1

It just shows how little colleges care that they continue to churn out graduates in all sectors of teaching when they know right well so few will secure employment. Money-spinner, end of story.

bigpink

Well shes trying to get as much as she can on the CV,can't seem to find a Gaa coaching course at the moment.I think being stuck at home in the country with no broadband(dial up only it sucks/) aint helping job hunting im going to get her to come up to me for a bit.She told me its higher than 140 prob more 165 at this stage
And to make her worse today her friend who done round 60 CVs and got 2 interviews got offered a job this morning so that has really put her in the dumps,

strawberry1

i know it is very frustrating but keep applying for the jobs... dont take it personally if you dont get called, i turned down a temporary in my old to take a permanent (i was on the panel) and i heard that there were 250 applications for the temporary, the job was already 'gone' -as there were 2 other temporary teachers in the school (one was there 4 years) looking for a temporary job there for next year again. Jobs must be advertised, but maybe there should be something in the adverts that suggests the position would be filled internally so as not to waste people's time or money applying ... keep applying and if you dont get anything call into the school (after september!) with a cv and try to meet the principal...
..as for the 600 new jobs, im taking one of them in a new school, but the school im leaving is losing 2 permanent positions at least

bigpink

strawberry1 wrote: »

i know it is very frustrating but keep applying for the jobs... dont take it personally if you dont get called, i turned down a temporary in my old to take a permanent (i was on the panel) and i heard that there were 250 applications for the temporary, the job was already 'gone' -as there were 2 other temporary teachers in the school (one was there 4 years) looking for a temporary job there for next year again. Jobs must be advertised, but maybe there should be something in the adverts that suggests the position would be filled internally so as not to waste people's time or money applying ... keep applying and if you dont get anything call into the school (after september!) with a cv and try to meet the principal...
..as for the 600 new jobs, im taking one of them in a new school, but the school im leaving is losing 2 permanent positions at least

Your a teacher?You were on a panel interviewing?

All im hearing is jobs are "gone" and "earmarked".Whatever about the time and effort she is putting in its costing a alot of money doing and sending CVS
Surely to god schools should have their staff in place by now?
I dont think this calling into schools looks good and im reading here saying teachers often hand in notices when the school year starts wtf:mad:

byhookorbycrook

"teachers often hand in notices when the school year starts wtf" Many contracts run until the last day in August or sometimes the teacher may not be of retirement age until half way through a term. Schools would generally know if a vacancy is to arise though. Do NOT cold call in Sept looking for a principal, you'll probably get the road. I'd be more inclined to send a short letter/postcard with your contact details to schools saying you are available for any subbing, even a single day.

Many principals prefer to wait until August to fill jobs, as someone accepting a job in July, might decide to take another closer to home over the summer. The first year I was out of college, I sent out over 500 cvs.

bigpink

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

"teachers often hand in notices when the school year starts wtf" Many contracts run until the last day in August or sometimes the teacher may not be of retirement age until half way through a term. Schools would generally know if a vacancy is to arise though. Do NOT cold call in Sept looking for a principal, you'll probably get the road. I'd be more inclined to send a short letter/postcard with your contact details to schools saying you are available for any subbing, even a single day.

Many principals prefer to wait until August to fill jobs, as someone accepting a job in July, might decide to take another closer to home over the summer. The first year I was out of college, I sent out over 500 cvs.

Jesus this country really is backward,surely a contract ends when school ends in June
If there at retirement age they should not be allowed start a new year

byhookorbycrook

Not everyone has a birthday in the summer and contracts ending in June would mean no holiday pay!!

bigpink

And why the should they get holiday pay when they stop working in June?And out of contract in Sept

ytareh

Because theyve served the community for 40 years ....!?Are you even a teacher ???Just out of college?

bigpink

ytareh wrote: »

Because theyve served the community for 40 years ....!?Are you even a teacher ???Just out of college?

Well wouldnt a teacher of 40 years be permanment and not on a contract?

Read my 1st post

ytareh

Even if permanent Id imagine technically you are on a series of one year 'contracts' ...

jimmycrackcorm

bigpink wrote: »

Well she has worked very hard at the job hunting,i dont thing any thing will come up at this stage or even 2 years

What sets her out apart from the other 500 applicants? She needs to have some things on her CV that will put her top of the list of people with basically the same qualifications.

Rosita

bigpink wrote: »

And why the should they get holiday pay when they stop working in June?And out of contract in Sept

You've answered your own question. Surely it is standard in any contract of employment that one is entitled to get paid until the contract ends?

strawberry1

bigpink wrote: »

Your a teacher?You were on a panel interviewing?

All im hearing is jobs are "gone" and "earmarked".Whatever about the time and effort she is putting in its costing a alot of money doing and sending CVS
Surely to god schools should have their staff in place by now?
I dont think this calling into schools looks good and im reading here saying teachers often hand in notices when the school year starts wtf:mad:

just to clarify, i am a teacher,i was permanent with panel rights, so i was placed onto the panel due to cuts in the school, i am not interviewing!:) There will always be maternity leaves during the year and i'd imagine there is alot of teachers maybe retiring before Christmas with the budget cuts.. but i dont know. Regarding the summer pay, if a contract is for the year , the teacher's salary is divided by the number of fortnights in the year, if teachers were not paid over the summer months, the same salary would just be divided up over a shorter space of time, I presume this is more inconvenient and costly for the DES. keep sending those cv's, you dont know some principals might hold onto them for another position that might come up!:)

Tigerandahalf

The job scene is extremely bad at the moment. Qualifications and great experience won't always count. Many people are turning to the one thing that will get them a job...'contacts' or 'pull'. Many schools are recruiting people who are related to people in the schools. Not much you can do about that. If you're young I'd advise you to go abroad. Try TEFL teaching or sub somewhere abroad for a while. The next 2/3 years will be bad here..no doubt about that. Loads of people coming out of the colleges plus an unknown number coming from the UK..it only means fierce competition. If the economy keeps going the way it is, it's inevitable that the PT ratio will be increased again. Ignore what the gov has said. Money or lack of, counts and will dictate. I know this is a bit of a depressing reply but try not to get too down. Getting pissed off won't help you to get the job. Best of luck..it's tough for everyone out there.

Tigerandahalf

LittleWhiteDog wrote: »

I agree with changing the CV, we had a position to fill in our school and I was shocked at the state of some of the applications, wrong spelling on a teaching job application! There is a standard application but most schools will also ask for a CV also and if they do make sure your sister sends one as we got about 100 applications with no CV that went straight into the 'No' pile as they obviously didn't take the time to read the advertisement. I know your sister must be feeling really down in the dumps but she still has time to get a job, there will be a number of teachers who won't return to their posts for one reason or another this September and her best bet is to get in somewhere subbing for a start. I know a lot of people who got a full time position through sub work in our school so tell her not to give up hope!

Why do you need a standard application form plus a CV for the jobs you are advertising? I presume you are a Green school and are obligated to reduce, reuse, recycle. This is what drives applicants mad. I can understand why applicants do this. Otherwise, they are sending upto 20/25 pages per application. Your school is not the only one they are applying to. Be fair.

Rosita

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Why do you need a standard application form plus a CV for the jobs you are advertising?

That's a question to which I doubt there's a plausible answer. It is ludicrous that schools have these application forms looking for the same information as will be on a CV anyway. If the idea is to cut down on getting loads of irrelevant material which there no doubt will be on a huge CV, then they can easily ignore everything bar the first few pages.

rainbowtrout

bigpink wrote: »

Jesus this country really is backward,surely a contract ends when school ends in June
If there at retirement age they should not be allowed start a new year

Teachers that are 65 don't start a new year. I'll give you a very valid example. When I started my teaching job 9 years ago I started on 11th of September (9/11 Twin Towers collapse to be precise). So fast forward 40 years to 2041, if I am still teaching I will have to work until 11th of September which brings me into a new school year if I want full pension etc etc. Teachers who have served 40 years are not going to set their retirement to convenience whoever is coming in after them.

bigpink wrote: »

And why the should they get holiday pay when they stop working in June?And out of contract in Sept

We get paid during our holidays like most other employees. So our contracts usually run from Sept 1st - August 31st. Maybe you'll think about that when your sister gets a job. Tell her to resign in June when she wants to move on, sure what would she want her holiday pay for, won't she be great because she won't be inconveniencing the school, they'll be able to advertise during the summer.

Maybe you should learn a little about how teaching works instead of attacking every post in the thread.

maynooth_rules

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

The job scene is extremely bad at the moment. Qualifications and great experience won't always count. Many people are turning to the one thing that will get them a job...'contacts' or 'pull'. Many schools are recruiting people who are related to people in the schools. Not much you can do about that.

Very true. I can name countless examples of this in the small town of 2000 people that i live in. Its a very Irish thing that having someone on the inside always helps you. Depressing really.

queensinead

What is the quality of her degree or diploma? I know a Principal and he told me that many schools are only interviewing candidates with First Class Honours (I do not know if he meant in degree or diploma). They are using this First Class thing as a filtering system. They have to use some system as they are snowed under with CVs, so this is as good as any, I guess. That does not mean you need to have a First to be a good teacher.

A psychologist I know told me that the only ones among her classmates getting interviews were those with Firsts, so it might not be just in teaching.

Being able to offer something in the way of IT is also good, as many older teachers and Principals can be a bit Luddite, and expect all young people to be whizz kids at IT. Helping teachers set up a subject site on the school's website might be something to offer. Older teachers are sometimes intimidated by this stuff, and appreciate help

Coaching sport or knowing something about it is good, as is music or choreography for school musicals.
Some Principals have obsessions---music, sport, Irish dance. If you could find out what it was...

E.T.

Jesus - if they're only interviewing people with first class honours they could be waiting a while for applicants! There were only 8 people out of 300+ in my year who graduated with a 1H. About a two-thirds of the class got second class honours and the other third got pass degrees. I'd say it's more likely that some cv envelopes are just not even getting opened - if there's over 500 applying for a job I can't see how it's possible to go through all of the cvs. It's a ridiculous situation.

LittleWhiteDog

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Why do you need a standard application form plus a CV for the jobs you are advertising? I presume you are a Green school and are obligated to reduce, reuse, recycle. This is what drives applicants mad. I can understand why applicants do this. Otherwise, they are sending upto 20/25 pages per application. Your school is not the only one they are applying to. Be fair.

Not my rules, I'm not the principal. What I'm saying is you should read the job description before applying as you don't want to lose out on a job simply because you didn't read the advertisement properly. The poster is looking to know how her sister can stand out from the rest and so I gave advice based on what I know happens in my school. If an interviewer sees an application come in where the applicant is applying for a post as a mainstream teacher and the job is actually for a language support teacher straight away the interviewer is going to think 'They didn't do their homework' (no pun intended!) it's the same for an advertisement that looks for a CV and isn't accompanied by one.

afkasurfjunkie

things have changed in the past few years and i dont think applicants are fully grasping this change yet. when i graduated 7 years ago, people could literally walk into jobs. i mean apply for 6 or 7 jobs, they would be surprised if they didn't get 2 or 3 interviews and then a job out of one of those interviews.
people gave me odd looks when it took me until august 31 to get a temporary job, and i was very lucky to be made permanent 2 years after. i will hang onto that job with my life now because i know i dont really have all the qualities that hiring principals are now looking for. plus i really like where i am and am doing very well there.

currently, there is a surplus of teachers, and it is not good enough to have a 2.1 degree with good teaching practice grades. you need to be able to offer the school something that nobody else on their staff has, and the bigger the school, the harder that is.
my friend has only just secured a job after applying to loads of schools. this is a person with a music diploma and who put on 2 big musicals in her old school on her own with no help from the (begrudging) staff.

musical ability is important. i dont mean just playing the tin whistle, i mean confidence in directing the school choir and playing music at communion and confirmation ceremonies.
sporting ability extends to being able to coach a team in your own time after school (unpaid i might add) and organising tournaments and making the relevant travel arrangements.
could you design/maintain the upkeep of the school website?
qualification to teach speech and drama/music?
extra qualification in art? special needs education? a third language?

there was a time when teaching college undergrads were favoured by principals, and to some extent they still are but they are now competing with people who have done a post-grad and have prior experience in sales, PR, event management, accounting, engineering etc. areas which would be very useful in the day to day running of a school.

Try to have one thing on your cv at least that stands out.

bigpink

I have no problem with holiday pay if there are full time/permanent but i have worked jobs that were contracts(not teaching) and you dont get holiday pay.
A question if a teacher got a contract for a school from Sept to June as a temp do they get paid for July and Aug

I will find out her grades and post

byhookorbycrook

Sub teachers do not get holiday pay but get a higher daily rate to make up for this.

implausible

bigpink wrote: »

I have no problem with holiday pay if there are full time/permanent but i have worked jobs that were contracts(not teaching) and you dont get holiday pay.
A question if a teacher got a contract for a school from Sept to June as a temp do they get paid for July and Aug

The phrase 'temp' isn't used in teaching in Ireland. You're either a sub (e.g. a few days here, a few weeks there), on a non-casual contract (e.g. maternity leave) or have a full year contract. If you have the latter, you get paid for the summer months. The first two have holiday pay in the hourly rate.

bigpink

Sorry didnt mean to sound angry just the application process seems a total farce
Maybe primary teaching should be 4 or 5 years?They could learn other skills in the area?

byhookorbycrook

I have worked with two teachers who got first class hons down the years. Neither lasted teaching and one in particular was no great loss, she was all show and no substance and couldn't deal with children who were struggling any bit. In the same way the 600 points may not be the best indication who will make for an excellent gp,1st class hons candidates may have the theory but not the skills.

lellybelle

I've just read through all the posts on this thread and I really don't see the point in wasting any more of my money applying for jobs here. I spent the last year in Wales doing a PGCE and came home a few weeks ago. I've sent off over 200 applications and have received just 4 letters back saying that positions have been filled. I really don't think it matters what extra courses or skills you have to make yourself stand out (I have a wide range from music to sports to IT). At the end of the day the jobs will be give to people with "pull" in the schools. I know of countless examples of this. Its incredibly disheartening to work so hard for something and to know that I won't be considered on the basis of my achievements. Yet if my aunt or my brother worked in a school I would probably be in the middle of planning for my new class right now.
I'm going to start applying in the UK, I just hope I haven't left it too late.

strawberry1

bigpink wrote: »

Sorry didnt mean to sound angry just the application process seems a total farce
Maybe primary teaching should be 4 or 5 years?They could learn other skills in the area?

iv been on temporary contract, it runs from sept to aug, if a teacher on a temp. contract decided to leave after a year, the principal would not have to wait to their contract was up in august to advertise a post in the school if that's what you're worried about what could be holding up alot of the jobs is if the panel is not cleared, or the supplementary panel either. i was on the panel this year and found out in february but i heard it didnt clear until the start of the summer, then there was a supplementary panel, i know the principal also did not find out if there were temporary posts for definate in the school until near the summer, it got very complicated for a colleague of mine, as she was on the supplementary panel and waiting to find out if she could stay in the school on a temporary contract- so i agree the application process is complicated!

bigpink

lellybelle wrote: »

I've just read through all the posts on this thread and I really don't see the point in wasting any more of my money applying for jobs here. I spent the last year in Wales doing a PGCE and came home a few weeks ago. I've sent off over 200 applications and have received just 4 letters back saying that positions have been filled. I really don't think it matters what extra courses or skills you have to make yourself stand out (I have a wide range from music to sports to IT). At the end of the day the jobs will be give to people with "pull" in the schools. I know of countless examples of this. Its incredibly disheartening to work so hard for something and to know that I won't be considered on the basis of my achievements. Yet if my aunt or my brother worked in a school I would probably be in the middle of planning for my new class right now.
I'm going to start applying in the UK, I just hope I haven't left it too late.

Hey Lellybelle
I feel for you its getting my sister down big time she knows the job market is tough but the stupid job process doesnt help at all.Id say she is on the verge of giving up and going on that new graduate j1 for a year and try get some job in the states