Kevin Myers goes nuts on the Irish view of Isreal

bobblepuzzle

The story: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/cead-mile-failte-to-hell-mr-israeli-ambassador-2304976.html

---

Trying to argue Israel's case to the Irish is no longer the futile burden of Zion Evonry. God help his successor in just about the worst assignment an Israeli diplomat can ever get
The Israeli Ambassador Zion Evonry is returning home: his time in Hell is done. Now it is the turn of some other poor bastard in the Israeli diplomatic service to come over and meet the conjoined forces of hatred, ignorance, blindness, hysteria and prejudice that the name 'Israel' invariably inspires. Short of Hamas opening up a few death-camps for Jews now, rather than after they've finally defeated Israel, I'm not sure what would destroy the irrational Israelophobia that is so powerful in Ireland.
Critics of Israel deplore its origins within the Balfour Declaration of 1917, which committed the British to making a homeland for the Jews. So do I. It was not British land, and no British government had any right to make any promises about it. But I cannot revisit the past and restore the Hapsburg Empire, or overthrow Bolshevism. Many things resulted from that terrible time. One of those was the formal creation of a homeland in Palestine for Jews. The forces that erupted across Europe in the following decades produced an entirely new world order, in which Israel took its place, as thousands of Palestinians either fled, or were forced to flee, their homes.
But comparable things happened across the world around the same time, in the Punjab and Bengal, East Prussia and Sudetenland, the Baltic and Tartary. And so we must deal with the world that history has bequeathed us. We cannot endlessly undo events or 'return' people to the land their ancestors once inhabited -- either in Kashmir or in Kansas.
But this is where the world religio-cultures divide. For most Muslims do not accept that such historical processes are irreversible. They believe that once land is Dar al-Islam -- the abode of the faithful -- it can never be relinquished. If taken by non-believers, it then becomes Dar al-Harb: the abode of war, and shall remain so until it is restored to Islam. And so Israel has for the past 62 years been Dar al-Harb.
Indeed, neither the 'secular' PLO nor the Islamicist Hamas sees a long-term resolution in the Middle East that will genuinely include the state of Israel. Even for many 'moderate' Palestinians, the twin-state solution is the merely the stepping-stone to the status quo ante the Balfour Declaration. Palestine will thus be restored to the Dar al-Islam and the Caliphate.
Now, if you oppose the right of Israel to exist, that's clear enough: you want the Jews of Israel either dispersed or killed, so there's not much to discuss, other than train timetables, methodology (gas or gun?) and corpse-disposal. It's been done before; maybe this time, you'll get it right.
But if you support the right of Israel to exist, but condemn Israeli methods for coping with Palestinian terrorism, then how do you propose to deal with the volleys of thousands of Hamas rockets into Israeli towns from Gaza? You want a proportionate response? Very well, tell us what is proportionate. If you are against suicide bombers, but are opposed to the wall that has successfully prevented suicide bombers from entering Israel from the West Bank, then what is your realistic and efficient alternative to the wall?
Emoting over the plight of the Palestinian refugees -- a fond pastime in this country -- begs the question: why are they still refugees? Why haven't they been absorbed by their Arab neighbours as the Muslims of the Indian Punjab have been in Pakistan; as the Hindus of Lahore have in Amritsar; as the Germans of Danzig have been in Hamburg?
Why? Because, quite simply, most of Israel's neighbours don't want a permanent, irreversible peace with the Jewish state. They want Dar al-Harb by terrorism and political instability until the day of jihad arrives, after which the Dar al-Islam will be restored. If this means keeping the people of the Gaza Strip confined in an open-air madhouse, so be it. Thus, Gaza is the paradise where Shariah law rules, where it is illegal for girls to ride bikes, where honour-killings are legitimate and where all the members of the 'secular' Fatah movement have been butchered by Hamas. And if Islamic fundamentalists do that to their fellow Palestinians, what have they in mind for the Jews, whom the Koran calls "pigs and monkeys"?
One-hundred-and-fifty Irish 'artists' have announced they are boycotting Israel. What, 150? That's about 140 more than I thought we had. Poor Israel! Being boycotted by Irish daubers it's never even heard of. Yet strangely enough, these 'artists' don't condemn the totalitarian Islamo-Nazism of Hamas, or the emerging Fourth Reich of Iran. No, instead, they obsess over the misdeeds of a democratic state the size of Munster in a democracy-free, Arab landmass as big as the US.
Ah well. Trying to argue Israel's case to the Irish people is no longer the bitter, futile burden of Zion Evonry. So, safe home, my friend, and God help your successor, in just about the worst assignment an Israeli diplomat can ever get. The only local consolation I can draw from this endless tragedy is that without it, the modernist composer Raymond Deane, who is also the leader of the Ireland-Palestinian Solidarity Campaign, might otherwise be writing even more of his 'music'. So thank you for that, Israel: and shalom, Zion.

---

While I don't take the opinion this guy usually has to offer, I would be in agreement with most of what he's saying.... there is a massive phobia of Isreal in general in this country.

Personnally I'm up for the two state solution... whats your view?

FlutterinBantam

Way too many idealistic bar room warriors in here who promote the left wing agenda to the nth degree.

This thread will end in tears, much like all other threads based on the same sorry situation.

The propagandists who promulgate the fly-blown causes of the various vested interest groups and professional agitators will infest the place soon.

Best back out now poster.

PeterIanStaker

Cmdr Keen wrote: »

The story: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/cead-mile-failte-to-hell-mr-israeli-ambassador-2304976.html

conjoined forces of hatred, ignorance, blindness, hysteria and prejudice that the name 'Israel' invariably inspires.
Personnally I'm up for the two state solution... whats your view?

My view would be not paying attention to the conjoined forces of hatred, ignorance, blindness, hysteria and prejudice that the name 'Kevin Myers' invariably inspires?

KeithM89_old

In before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juFZh92MUOY

InTheTrees

If they'd just top stealing our passports we might soften up a little.

bobblepuzzle

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Way too many idealistic bar room warriors in here who promote the left wing agenda to the nth degree.

This thread will end in tears, much like all other threads based on the same sorry situation.

The propagandists who promulgate the fly-blown causes of the various vested interest groups and professional agitators will infest the place soon.

Best back out now poster.

Why? This was in the media today... so why shouldn't it be discussed?

Wacker

This would mean coming from the OP, but might I request that before people bitch about Israel, they point out the bits of Kevin's opinion piece that they disagree with?

InTheTrees

In before the ubiquitous Palestinian flag...

brianthebard

In before the Israeli army invades...

bobblepuzzle

brianthebard wrote: »

In before the Israeli army invades...

That makes no sense :pac:

tinkerbell

I just don't understand what is up with the Irish. So so so so so many people are pro-Palestine and are just completely anti-Israel.

galwayrush

Looking forward to an interesting. factual, non biased debate.[can't find extremely sarcastic smilie].......................:pac::pac:

bobblepuzzle

tinkerbell wrote: »

I just don't understand what is up with the Irish. So so so so so many people are pro-Palestine and are just completely anti-Israel.

tbh I don't think Isreal is a legitimate state, but I do feel the only solution is a two-tier one at this stage.... lets face it Isreal is not going to cease to exist tomorrow... so we need a compromise to stop the violence

Jeboa Safari

I don't particularily like either side, but I can't understand most people going completely anti-Israel, usually coupled with anti-americanism, and ignoring anything the Palestinians have done. Hard to see if there'll ever be a solution, seems to be always some sort of trouble in the middle-east

Gummy Panda

tinkerbell wrote: »

I just don't understand what is up with the Irish. So so so so so many people are pro-Palestine and are just completely anti-Israel.

But i hate them both

InTheTrees

Cmdr Keen wrote: »

Emoting over the plight of the Palestinian refugees -- a fond pastime in this country -- begs the question: why are they still refugees? Why haven't they been absorbed by their Arab neighbours as the Muslims of the Indian Punjab have been in Pakistan; as the Hindus of Lahore have in Amritsar; as the Germans of Danzig have been in Hamburg?
Why? Because, quite simply, most of Israel's neighbours don't want a permanent, irreversible peace with the Jewish state.

It is curious that after 40+ years Lebanon doesn't give citizenship to the Palestinians in its refugee ghettos.

And what about Egypt and Jordan?

I doubt Syria even lets any Palestinians in.

OutlawPete

Cmdr Keen wrote: »

Why? This was in the media today... so why shouldn't it be discussed?

It's not that it 'shouldn't be discussed, just that there is not much point.

There is more chance of having a sensible discussion on immigration, than there is on the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, and that's saying a lot.

bobblepuzzle

InTheTrees wrote: »

It is curious that after 40+ years Lebanon doesn't give citizenship to the Palestinians in its refugee ghettos.

And what about Egypt and Jordan?

I doubt Syria even lets any Palestinians in.

Can you provide a reference for this?

I would've thought they view favourably of the Palestinians, especially since Egypt and Isreal despise each other

InTheTrees

tinkerbell wrote: »

I just don't understand what is up with the Irish. So so so so so many people are pro-Palestine and are just completely anti-Israel.

Ask the average Israeli or Egyptian what are the politicam issues in Northern Ireland and they probably couldn't tell you either.

Cookie_Monster

Cmdr Keen wrote: »

Personnally I'm up for the two state solution... whats your view?

carpet bomb the entire region back to the dark age.

Perfect solution, I can't see any bad consequences coming from it at all

PapaQuebec

Cmdr Keen wrote: »

The story: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/cead-mile-failte-to-hell-mr-israeli-ambassador-2304976.html

---

Trying to argue Israel's case to the Irish is no longer the futile burden of Zion Evonry. God help his successor in just about the worst assignment an Israeli diplomat can ever get
The Israeli Ambassador Zion Evonry is returning home: his time in Hell is done. Now it is the turn of some other poor bastard in the Israeli diplomatic service to come over and meet the conjoined forces of hatred, ignorance, blindness, hysteria and prejudice that the name 'Israel' invariably inspires. Short of Hamas opening up a few death-camps for Jews now, rather than after they've finally defeated Israel, I'm not sure what would destroy the irrational Israelophobia that is so powerful in Ireland.
Critics of Israel deplore its origins within the Balfour Declaration of 1917, which committed the British to making a homeland for the Jews. So do I. It was not British land, and no British government had any right to make any promises about it. But I cannot revisit the past and restore the Hapsburg Empire, or overthrow Bolshevism. Many things resulted from that terrible time. One of those was the formal creation of a homeland in Palestine for Jews. The forces that erupted across Europe in the following decades produced an entirely new world order, in which Israel took its place, as thousands of Palestinians either fled, or were forced to flee, their homes.
But comparable things happened across the world around the same time, in the Punjab and Bengal, East Prussia and Sudetenland, the Baltic and Tartary. And so we must deal with the world that history has bequeathed us. We cannot endlessly undo events or 'return' people to the land their ancestors once inhabited -- either in Kashmir or in Kansas.
But this is where the world religio-cultures divide. For most Muslims do not accept that such historical processes are irreversible. They believe that once land is Dar al-Islam -- the abode of the faithful -- it can never be relinquished. If taken by non-believers, it then becomes Dar al-Harb: the abode of war, and shall remain so until it is restored to Islam. And so Israel has for the past 62 years been Dar al-Harb.
Indeed, neither the 'secular' PLO nor the Islamicist Hamas sees a long-term resolution in the Middle East that will genuinely include the state of Israel. Even for many 'moderate' Palestinians, the twin-state solution is the merely the stepping-stone to the status quo ante the Balfour Declaration. Palestine will thus be restored to the Dar al-Islam and the Caliphate.
Now, if you oppose the right of Israel to exist, that's clear enough: you want the Jews of Israel either dispersed or killed, so there's not much to discuss, other than train timetables, methodology (gas or gun?) and corpse-disposal. It's been done before; maybe this time, you'll get it right.
But if you support the right of Israel to exist, but condemn Israeli methods for coping with Palestinian terrorism, then how do you propose to deal with the volleys of thousands of Hamas rockets into Israeli towns from Gaza? You want a proportionate response? Very well, tell us what is proportionate. If you are against suicide bombers, but are opposed to the wall that has successfully prevented suicide bombers from entering Israel from the West Bank, then what is your realistic and efficient alternative to the wall?
Emoting over the plight of the Palestinian refugees -- a fond pastime in this country -- begs the question: why are they still refugees? Why haven't they been absorbed by their Arab neighbours as the Muslims of the Indian Punjab have been in Pakistan; as the Hindus of Lahore have in Amritsar; as the Germans of Danzig have been in Hamburg?
Why? Because, quite simply, most of Israel's neighbours don't want a permanent, irreversible peace with the Jewish state. They want Dar al-Harb by terrorism and political instability until the day of jihad arrives, after which the Dar al-Islam will be restored. If this means keeping the people of the Gaza Strip confined in an open-air madhouse, so be it. Thus, Gaza is the paradise where Shariah law rules, where it is illegal for girls to ride bikes, where honour-killings are legitimate and where all the members of the 'secular' Fatah movement have been butchered by Hamas. And if Islamic fundamentalists do that to their fellow Palestinians, what have they in mind for the Jews, whom the Koran calls "pigs and monkeys"?
One-hundred-and-fifty Irish 'artists' have announced they are boycotting Israel. What, 150? That's about 140 more than I thought we had. Poor Israel! Being boycotted by Irish daubers it's never even heard of. Yet strangely enough, these 'artists' don't condemn the totalitarian Islamo-Nazism of Hamas, or the emerging Fourth Reich of Iran. No, instead, they obsess over the misdeeds of a democratic state the size of Munster in a democracy-free, Arab landmass as big as the US.
Ah well. Trying to argue Israel's case to the Irish people is no longer the bitter, futile burden of Zion Evonry. So, safe home, my friend, and God help your successor, in just about the worst assignment an Israeli diplomat can ever get. The only local consolation I can draw from this endless tragedy is that without it, the modernist composer Raymond Deane, who is also the leader of the Ireland-Palestinian Solidarity Campaign, might otherwise be writing even more of his 'music'. So thank you for that, Israel: and shalom, Zion.

---

While I don't take the opinion this guy usually has to offer, I would be in agreement with most of what he's saying.... there is a massive phobia of Isreal in general in this country.

Personnally I'm up for the two state solution... whats your view?

Personally I couldn't agree with him more!

bobblepuzzle

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

carpet bomb the entire region back to the dark age.

Perfect solution, I can't see any bad consequences coming from it at all

eh? Where does carpet bombing come into it?

losthorizon

InTheTrees wrote: »

It is curious that after 40+ years Lebanon doesn't give citizenship to the Palestinians in its refugee ghettos.

And what about Egypt and Jordan?

I doubt Syria even lets any Palestinians in.

Because, I imagine thats what israel wants. The Palestinians belomg back in Israel.

InTheTrees

Cmdr Keen wrote: »

Can you provide evidence of this?

Evidence of the palestinian refugee camsp in lebanon you mean? You didnt know???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_refugee_camps

bobblepuzzle

InTheTrees wrote: »

Evidence of the palestinian refugee camsp in lebanon you mean? You didnt know???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_refugee_camps

Sorry evidence was the wrong word... I meant reference

InTheTrees

losthorizon wrote: »

Because, I imagine thats what israel wants. The Palestinians belomg back in Israel.

I agree. Israel's neighbours absorbing the Palestinians into their own populations would dilute the anger.

So is it humane to keep people segregated in camps just for political reasons? As a way to hurt Israel?

Because it would be benefit Israel, is that a reason not to do it and to further hurt people?

I dunno.

fontanalis

InTheTrees wrote: »

It is curious that after 40+ years Lebanon doesn't give citizenship to the Palestinians in its refugee ghettos.

And what about Egypt and Jordan?

I doubt Syria even lets any Palestinians in.

Why because some people think their imaginary friend promised them land years ago?
I like the touch of everyoen who doesn't liek seeing people getting treated like sh!t wants another holocaust.

dlofnep

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Way too many idealistic bar room warriors in here who promote the left wing agenda to the nth degree.

This thread will end in tears, much like all other threads based on the same sorry situation.

The propagandists who promulgate the fly-blown causes of the various vested interest groups and professional agitators will infest the place soon.

Best back out now poster.

Do you ever post anything other than that same of bullshít?

Israel has earned whatever criticism it gets. That's a fact.

charlemont

tinkerbell wrote: »

I just don't understand what is up with the Irish. So so so so so many people are pro-Palestine and are just completely anti-Israel.

Palestine and Israel, well its almost a copy or repeat of the colonization of Ireland , palestinians being like the native irish and the israelis being like the british planters, and the zionist elite being like the then british crown..

My name is URL

Trying to argue Israel's case to the Irish people is no longer the bitter, futile burden of Zion Evonry. So, safe home, my friend, and God help your successor, in just about the worst assignment an Israeli diplomat can ever get.

What a load of utter crap.. typical of his 'say it for effect' attitude.

He does make some good points but I can't abide the man and therefor his opinions in any way because of his melodramatic diarrhea

dlofnep

My name is URL wrote: »

What a load of utter crap

Look at who the author is.

CrazyRabbit

Both sides are happy to commit atrocities is the name of their countries and religions. In my eyes, they are no different from each other.

dlofnep

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Both sides are happy to commit atrocities is the name of their countries and religions. In my eyes, they are no different from each other.

One is an occupying force. The other isn't. That makes them quite different than each other.

SuperInfinity

Kevin Myers is nothing but a newspaper troll, ignore him.

Shin Bet

Ask Jordan what it did to its refugees in the 70s and why it did what it did.
Then ask Eygpt what it did to the same and why they only keep relations with Hamas just to save face with the extremest world.
While were at it lets have a look at what the Palestinians did when they were in Lebannon.
You will find theres one thing that will be the same throught history in that research.

They used every country and means possible to try and kill Jews without thinking about what thier hosts would think (unless its Syria who would be delighted). Thats why the only people who are thier friends in Ireland are the ones who support the IRA (notice the constant linking of terrorists here??) Thakfully thier the minority and will always be so albeit a noisy minority and thats the way it will stay as long as theres rational people here.

PeterIanStaker

Shin Bet wrote: »

e delighted). Thats why the only people who are thier friends in Ireland are the ones who support the IRA (notice the constant linking of terrorists here??) .

Heck of a generalisation there, but with a name like Shin Bet why am I suprised.

Personally, I think the IRA are c*nts. Oh and Myers is a c*nt too.


*sits back and waits to be shot by the Mossad*

PapaQuebec

dlofnep wrote: »

One is an occupying force. The other isn't. That makes them quite different than each other.

One side launches hundreds of rocket attacks annuallyaimed at civilians.
The other side is on the receiving-end of hundreds of said attacks.

Nodin

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

./.......the fly-blown causes of ..........

The usual crap eh?

My name is URL

PapaQuebec wrote: »

One side launches hundreds of rocket attacks annuallyaimed at civilians.
The other side is on the receiving-end of hundreds of said attacks.

One side is forced to either accept life as a homeless and hungry animal or join up to the fight.. and the other side live in relative luxury as either a soldier or a civilian

fontanalis

PapaQuebec wrote: »

One side launches hundreds of rocket attacks annuallyaimed at civilians.
The other side is on the receiving-end of hundreds of said attacks.

Who then send hugs and kisses
http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/07/israeli-children-sign-their-missiles_18.html

PapaQuebec

Nodin wrote: »

The usual crap eh?

Wow!

Devastating riposte!

Many here would do well to copy your style!

Nodin

InTheTrees wrote: »

It is curious that after 40+ years Lebanon doesn't give citizenship to the Palestinians in its refugee ghettos.

And what about Egypt and Jordan?

I doubt Syria even lets any Palestinians in.

Why don't you go and read up on it, rather than ask some rhetorical question on it based on some half assed assumption? Google, its a great man.

Shin Bet wrote:

Ask Jordan what it did to its refugees in the 70s and why it did what it did.

Must be quiz night....Well then, heres one - Why were all those refugees there? How would the events of Black September justify the building of colonies by Israel in Arab East Jerusalem and the West Bank today?

Shin Bet wrote:

Thakfully thier the minority and will always be so albeit a noisy minority and thats the way it will stay as long as theres rational people here. .

The EU opposes the occupoation. The General Assembly of the UN opposes the occupation. If it wasn't for the Veto of the US on the UNSC Israel would be under sanctions by now.

dlofnep

PapaQuebec wrote: »

One side launches hundreds of rocket attacks annuallyaimed at civilians.

The other side is on the receiving-end of hundreds of said attacks.

I suppose that's why the IDF killed 300 times more civilians than Palestinian fighters did during the conflict in Gaza.

Great logic there champ. My point still stands. One is an occupying force, the other isn't.

Carlos_Ray

I don't think I have ever agreed with anything this man has ever said. He's the Irish Bill O’Reilly. Although Bill’s right wing lunacy is centred around American nationalism, Myers is based around his love for everything British and his hatred for Ireland. Indeed if it was up to him we’d still be part of the British empire running around with our heads bowed to the British nobility ( the very people he tries to mimic with his ridiculous accent.) He has shown nothing but contempt for the people of this island and he has made money simply by ”going against the grain.” The man is an old self-righteous fool. If the majority of people in Ireland declared their support for the Israeli’s he’d write another article supporting the Palestinians. The soulless little creep. I'd wipe my ass with his articles only I'd be afraid i'd catch something off them.

Cookie_Monster

Cmdr Keen wrote: »

eh? Where does carpet bombing come into it?

its my view of what should be done to solve the problems they are having getting along, by giving them something bigger to worry about, simples

Nodin

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

The man is an old self-righteous fool. If the majority of people in Ireland declared their support for the Israeli’s he’d write another article supporting the Palestinians. The soulless little creep. I'd wipe my ass with his articles only I'd be afraid i'd catch something off them.

In the interest of fairness I'm forced to point out that he was like that when he was younger as well. His descent into the gutter was complete when he went to the Indo.

His pieces are frequently riddled with factual inaccuracies and omissions which undermine (and occassionally entirely invalidate) whatever point he's making. Neither would these be obscure points known only to those who follow a particular issue either. You rapidly come to the conclusion that its rabble rousing of the lowest order, advocated by whatever editorial staff approve his tat.

meditraitor

Nodin wrote: »

You rapidly come to the conclusion that its rabble rousing of the lowest order, advocated by whatever editorial staff approve his tat.

I cant believe any editorial review is done on his pieces, the amount of nonsense he spew's would be funny but for the fluttering bantams of this world who are sucked in by it.

A Dub in Glasgo

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

I don't think I have ever agreed with anything this man has ever said. He's the Irish Bill O’Reilly. Although Bill’s right wing lunacy is centred around American nationalism, Myers is based around his love for everything British and his hatred for Ireland. Indeed if it was up to him we’d still be part of the British empire running around with our heads bowed to the British nobility ( the very people he tries to mimic with his ridiculous accent.) He has shown nothing but contempt for the people of this island and he has made money simply by ”going against the grain.” The man is an old self-righteous fool. If the majority of people in Ireland declared their support for the Israeli’s he’d write another article supporting the Palestinians. The soulless little creep. I'd wipe my ass with his articles only I'd be afraid i'd catch something off them.

I was thinking the same thing meself!

Squiggle

I don't often post in AH but I wouldn't read what that attention seeking wánker has to say if you paid me. Tosser of the highest order. :mad:

Terry

Real life troll.
Just like most African countries, Israel was created by the British, French, Dutch, Spanish and Americans.
Former colonial powers not giving a crap about the locals, and creating states and puppet governments for their own gain.

Israel remains untouched because of the U.S. veto in the U.N.

I'm going Godwin here, but Myers did it on the sixth line of his rant, so the thread has already been godwinned.
The IDF are no better than the NAZIs in their treatment of the Palestinians. Then only difference is that they are more subtle in their approach. Rather than gassing people, they are slowly starving them to death by blocking aid. This is reminiscent of the British approach towards Ireland in the 1840's. They called is lassiez faire, but it was really passive genocide.

History will show that, despite the terrorist activities of Hamas et al, the Palestinian people were oppressed by the Israelies. That the IDF, a government supported force, are a brutal entity.
Israel only exists because of wealthy Jewish lobbyists throwing money at the British and American government ministers/governers. The rest of the world opposes the actions carried out by Israel against the palestinians. If it were not for the U.S. veto, they would have been taken to task by the U.N.

last name ever. first name greatest

Too many idiots around, who may or not be educated but small brained, who don't get what is going on over there.