get rid of davy

hurler on de ditch

seriously has to go failed on big day time and tine again last sunday was disaster but not first time he tried it eg last league game vs kk and three weeks later same team in mooncoin dont blame him rather blame whoever gave him de job

liammur

I've always suspected he's a limited manager, however, like the limerick situation, are there any good replacements out there?

teednab-el

Davy is very limited with his team options. Not enough good players to produce the goods. He cant do any better with this team. They are past it. Full stop.

jonnybravo

Always thought that Davy was fairly limited. He got alot of attention from his time at LIT but if you look at the team that they had in LIT at the time I think I could have managed them to the title. Think he has concentrated way too much on the physical aspects of hurling and not enough on the skills of hurling. Surely must be a better manager in Waterford or even bring someone else from outside the county like Donal Grady or John Allen.

liammur

Must disagree with you jonny on 1 point.

I know i could have managed that LIT team to success

deise48

who then?

Professey Chin

Anthony Daly would still be my number one choice.Not gonna happen I know.
Damn you dublin

aidan24326

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

Anthony Daly would still be my number one choice.Not gonna happen I know.
Damn you dublin

Anthony Daly hasn't exactly set the world alight with Dublin though. They haven't really progressed in the last couple of years and the defeat to Antrim was a major setback.

looder

How fickle are Waterford fans?

Ye wanted rid of Justin and now ye want rid of Davy?

The hurlers are either not there or not been allowed come through. Waterford need to start building at underage level. They've won a Tony Forriestal recently, they need to build on this by progressing this team and other teams.

From the current team:

Dan Shanahan, although scored the crucial goal in the Munster final replay (which let's be honest, should have been stopped) has done nothing this year of note apart from it and very little last year. Dan thrived under Justin. His record in 2007 was unbelievable. That hasn't happened under Davy but I don't know if that's really Davy's fault. Dan was no great shakes earlier in his career either.

Ken McGrath is one of the greatest hurlers to ever don the Waterford jersey. The man could play anywhere! Unfortunately he's been injured a lot for the past two years and is looking like he may need to retire.

Tony Browne is no spring chicken either although he's still hurling well. I reckon he'll give it one more year but he'll never hit the heights that he has done previously.

These are three massive players for Waterford, three leaders on the field of play but due to age and injury are not near their peak.

Kevin Moran has been played half forward all year. He's not a half forward but he seemed to do an alright job there.

There was a lot of hype about Maurice Shanahan been the next best thing since sliced bread. A very good club hurler doesn't always mean he'll be a great inter county hurler. It's a massive step up to that standard.

Davy took over a Waterford team entering a period of transition yet has brought them to two All Ireland Semi Finals and an All Ireland Final, winning a Munster along the way. Paul Flynn only hurled one year under him. Flynn carried that Waterford forward line for half a decade in the nineties/noughties.

In my opinon Waterford are about a good few players short of coming close to winning an All Ireland.

Going through the team, they need a full back still (How long are Waterford searching for one of these now?), possible a half back to replace Browne (they'll definitely need one in the next year or two - Kevin Moran possibly to replace him), Midfield is excellent, They need to unearth more forwards. The only forwards that would strike fear into the opposition at the moment is Mullane and an on form Eoin Kelly. O'Halloran is promising but it's too early to say he's going to be good enough.

All players have said preperations under Davy have been top class, they said they have never been such a close knit bunch also. Maybe it's not the managers fault, maybe it's time for the players to shoulder a lot of the blame. They kicked Justin to the kirb after he done an awful lot for Waterford hurling in my opinion, hopefully they don't get rid of another former hurling great in the form of Davy Fitz.

hardybuck

Lets be honest, not many people wanted the job when Davy took it. Justin left us in bad shape, and Davy was successful in putting on a band aid on the situation as we limped to a All Ireland final, being hammered by the only decent team we met along the way.

He seems to have put a lot of thought and effort into developing the current tactics we employ, and seems to be learning from mistakes he has made along the way. Whats unfortunate about this is that Waterford have suffered due to all the mistakes. Whats also worrying was that he had no Plan B on Sunday. It was just try the same tactic with different players. I wish things were just that simple.

Couple this with the fact that Davy and his entourage (including Bernard Dunne!) are all costing a tidy few bob at a time when we are apparently in severe financial difficulty. More question marks.

What is most worrying of all is the county board and in particular the Chairman Cunningham and his performance in all of this. First we have the Munster final venue debacle. Then we have the minors playing a Munster semi and a Munster final in the space of a week. Then we have Cunningham explaining that he and three others will meet to examine the management situation and decide if he should stay on. In the same statement he urges Davy to stay on. How is he supposed to examine the situation with any level of impartiality if he has already publicy stated his opinions on the subject!?

We need an impartial review of the situation, an evaluation of what we have on offer currently, and the alternative options which may be available to us. Following this those in power should be able to make an informed decision on the matter. Its not difficult.

hardybuck

teednab-el wrote: »

Davy is very limited with his team options. Not enough good players to produce the goods. He cant do any better with this team. They are past it. Full stop.

Dan Shanahan, Ken McGrath and Seamus Prendergast are all mostly past it, that is why they were all on the bench for most of the year.

Aside from these lads the team is made up of either lads in or around their prime or quite young players with many more years in them. The squad has been undergoing serious regeneration over the past two seasons.

deisedude

looder wrote: »

How fickle are Waterford fans?

Ye wanted rid of Justin and now ye want rid of Davy?

The hurlers are either not there or not been allowed come through. Waterford need to start building at underage level. They've won a Tony Forriestal recently, they need to build on this by progressing this team and other teams.

From the current team:

Dan Shanahan, although scored the crucial goal in the Munster final replay (which let's be honest, should have been stopped) has done nothing this year of note apart from it and very little last year. Dan thrived under Justin. His record in 2007 was unbelievable. That hasn't happened under Davy but I don't know if that's really Davy's fault. Dan was no great shakes earlier in his career either.

Ken McGrath is one of the greatest hurlers to ever don the Waterford jersey. The man could play anywhere! Unfortunately he's been injured a lot for the past two years and is looking like he may need to retire.

Tony Browne is no spring chicken either although he's still hurling well. I reckon he'll give it one more year but he'll never hit the heights that he has done previously.

These are three massive players for Waterford, three leaders on the field of play but due to age and injury are not near their peak.

Kevin Moran has been played half forward all year. He's not a half forward but he seemed to do an alright job there.

There was a lot of hype about Maurice Shanahan been the next best thing since sliced bread. A very good club hurler doesn't always mean he'll be a great inter county hurler. It's a massive step up to that standard.

Davy took over a Waterford team entering a period of transition yet has brought them to two All Ireland Semi Finals and an All Ireland Final, winning a Munster along the way. Paul Flynn only hurled one year under him. Flynn carried that Waterford forward line for half a decade in the nineties/noughties.

In my opinon Waterford are about a good few players short of coming close to winning an All Ireland.

Going through the team, they need a full back still (How long are Waterford searching for one of these now?), possible a half back to replace Browne (they'll definitely need one in the next year or two - Kevin Moran possibly to replace him), Midfield is excellent, They need to unearth more forwards. The only forwards that would strike fear into the opposition at the moment is Mullane and an on form Eoin Kelly. O'Halloran is promising but it's too early to say he's going to be good enough.

All players have said preperations under Davy have been top class, they said they have never been such a close knit bunch also. Maybe it's not the managers fault, maybe it's time for the players to shoulder a lot of the blame. They kicked Justin to the kirb after he done an awful lot for Waterford hurling in my opinion, hopefully they don't get rid of another former hurling great in the form of Davy Fitz.

We are as fickle as any other county. There were plenty of barstoolers in Tipp calling for Sheedys head after the Cork game too. A lot of people just plan and simple hated Davy from the get go. Personally i'm not sure if he will stay. I don't know if the County Board have the money to keep him. I wouldn't mind if Kevin Ryan got the job, he has done a lot of good work with Carlow and i can't see another exspensive high profile manager from outside the county coming in.

I wouldn't agree about the hurlers not being allowed come through. If you had watched any Waterford league games this year you would know that a lot of new players were tried. Under Davy a lot of previously fringe players have made the step up from the panel to first team (Moran, Foley, Sully etc) and there are plenty of promising young lads coming through from the minors and U21's. Waterford now has the right structures in place from Tony Forristal up and it is paying dividends. For the first time in years we are competitive at minor level. That being said you have to be patient and realistic. Only two or 3 players usually make the step up from succesful minor teams to senior. Not every young lad is like Joe Canning or Noel McGrath and what i mean by that is not many young players are good enough at 18/19 to make the step up to senior, they just need some time to improve and bulk up.

I recognise we are a team in transition and probably will be for a few years as we try to bed new players in. We are no longer as reliant on the old guard and when the likes of Dan, Ken retire it will be our bench which is weakened moreso than our starting 15.

Maurice is getting a lot of unfair criticism. The lad is still only 19/20. Plenty of time for him to improve. There were high expectations placed on him last year because he did so well at U21 and for club but such expectaions are a bit unfair. He is arguably a better player than Dan was at his age so i would still hope he can make the grade.

Lawlor has done decent enough if not spectacular at full back. I'd give him another year there. Nothing to fear in the half back line. We could play 5 or 6 different fellas there from the current panel. They may not be quite as good as Tony but still decent intercounty hurlers. I'd have high hopes for Phillip Mahoney to become our future Centre back of last years minor team. Reminds me a lot of Ken Mcgrath.

So all in all i think the futures bright, the futures blue and white!;)

Le King

For having one forward, Waterford and Davy have done very well this year.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

He has exceeded expectations with this ageing team. Great player. Great manager. Be honest with yereselves Waterford fans, ye hardly expect an AI with this team? Best ye could've hoped for was an AI final appearence but ye would need the luck of the draw for that. Would love to see Fitz managing Galway after MacIntyre.

Diabhal Beag

Yup us Galwegians will take wee Davy off your hands


That could even mean the footballers at this stage :pac:

adrian522

THFC wrote: »

He has exceeded expectations with this ageing team. Great player. Great manager. Be honest with yereselves Waterford fans, ye hardly expect an AI with this team? Best ye could've hoped for was an AI final appearence but ye would need the luck of the draw for that. Would love to see Fitz managing Galway after MacIntyre.

I think Davy should go, he's a tactically inept as a manager with the recent semi being as bad as the AI final in 2008.

WTF was with dropping prendergast and replacing him with 19 year old then hauling him off after 20 mins.

Playing with essentially 2 forwards one of whom looked completely disinterested and leaving talent like Dana nd Ken McGrath on the sideline.

Idiotic management really.

That waterford team should have really put it up to Tipp but never got close.

deisedevil

Yet again there's a few prize fools with the incorrect opinion that Waterford are an ageing team and are past it. You obviously haven't much of a clue about the Waterford team and panel and are saying the same thing that has been said every year with a long time now and time and time again Waterfords so called past it team have come back and been successful.

Last 5 years waterford have been in Semi-Finals and have been ranked anything from 2nd to 4th each of those years.

We lost Flynn and everyone decided we were finished. Did we not still go on and win a Munster final and make Semi-Finals two years in a row after he left?

The only player off the first team that will go this year will probably be Tony Browne. One player gone from the first team, a few good young lads found this year (one who is a shoe in for young player of the year).

Waterford have been finding players every year. Will Cork be able to get over the loss of their players who may bow out? Have they got much coming through? That's a team that are past it if your looking for one.

deisedevil

On Davy. Before Sunday i was hoping he would stay one more year. But after hearing about how he went about making changes on the sideline and having to get approval from selectors etc. to make decisions and taking way too long to do anything and not having any real plan to make use of Brick Walsh who was bypassed the whole game, shur the whole world knew they were going to try and nullify his influence. Short puckouts left off and nothing done to stop them? Brian O'Halloran, he took a gamble on him and when it wasn't paying off took far too long to bring in Prender.

Too many mistakes for me in a big game and it's not the first time. Real pity.

I'd say Davy won't want to stay himself anyways.

dartbhoy

deisedevil wrote: »

Yet again there's a few prize fools with the incorrect opinion that Waterford are an ageing team and are past it. You obviously haven't much of a clue about the Waterford team and panel and are saying the same thing that has been said every year with a long time now and time and time again Waterfords so called past it team have come back and been successful.

Last 5 years waterford have been in Semi-Finals and have been ranked anything from 2nd to 4th each of those years.

We lost Flynn and everyone decided we were finished. Did we not still go on and win a Munster final and make Semi-Finals two years in a row after he left?

The only player off the first team that will go this year will probably be Tony Browne. One player gone from the first team, a few good young lads found this year (one who is a shoe in for young player of the year).

Waterford have been finding players every year. Will Cork be able to get over the loss of their players who may bow out? Have they got much coming through? That's a team that are past it if your looking for one.

I don't think their an ageing team but the big question is have they up and coming players good enough to win an All Ireland? Personally I don't think so. As for Davy I think he deserves another year at it,he done well to win them a Munster title this year.

TheSpecialOne

He deserves to go for making one of the highest scoring teams in hurling into a team who look to suck the life out of the other team...Justin's waterford where a serious hurling team who played super stuff...Davy came in and played negative crap and got hammered when it counted.

chinguetti

I was never a fan of Davy (i would have asked Daly instead to manage in 08) but he brought them to an AI that they were destroyed in from a mess after the Clare match.

Davy then went around changing the style of play in 09 to defence based and trying to limit teams than the 'we'll score more than you' mindset that Waterford had.

The new system didn't bear fruit until this year with a Munster crown, which was a great bonus. So until last Sunday, Davy was ahead on the manager performance scale.

However what last week showed was that Davy was way too slow to change the system at half time; he never tried to win the game as a defensive system is all fine and good until you go behind. Then you have to come out to play and he didn't give the players the order.

Why he didn't do this was baffling. He had nothing to lose, 6 points down at half time and they got it back to 3 (Tipp's usual slump at some stage more than Wd going for it) but still no change. Every manager losing a match will try and chase it, Waterford never did as the system constrained them.

As for Davy annoying the older players, any new manager with a new system will make enemies whether he likes it or not, even before he begins to drop players who are star names.

Cuddlytroll

adrian522 wrote: »

leaving talent like Dana... on the sideline.

And I though Bernard Dunne was bad enough...

Deise Tom

hardybuck wrote: »

Lets be honest, not many people wanted the job when Davy took it.

How many were asked.

What has Davy done since he took over. The answer, very little.

We got to an All-Ireland with Justin's team. Had Waterford not got to the All-Ireland that year, some very serious questions would have been asked of the players for the way Justin was got rid off.

In 2009 what was achieved. Ok we got to a Munster Final. To do so we beat a very bad Limerick team and could have been well beaten by Tipperary had they not pulled up. We then beat Offaly and were lucky to beat Galway. Subs which i have heard on more than one occasion that Davy did not want to put on were the difference between the sides.

In 2010 Waterford beat a very young and in-experienced Clare team. Nothing to gloath about there. We then beat Cork after Extra time in a replay, when we could have been well beaten on the first day against lets face it what is not a team you would expect to come out of Cork. They missed four chances for goals thankfully in the first half of the drawn game and Ben O'Connor missed frees he would normally would put over blind folded and with his back to goal. Against Tipp using the tactics that Davy likes to use we were well and surly shown up. He had no plan B. He admitted that without actually saying it, when he went on about how the game did not go the way he planned. Any fool could have told you that it was not going to happen.

The Clare man in 2008, after the All-Ireland showed little interest when the team returned back to the city. Most team managers having suffered the beating we got would have said one of two things.

1. Look, i have tried, i did not succeed, lets leave someone else try.

or

2. Look, we were well beaten, but this team is not as bad as this. Hopefully the County Board will re-appoint me again and we will do all we can to show that we are not that poor.

Not davy however. Davy came out with the usual we will see what happens from here thing. Maybe he was waiting for a carrot to be put under his nose to see how big it was.

We would be far better without Davy over the team. There is plenty of others who are miles better qualified to do the job. I dont know how many of these have ever if ever been approached, and if they have what the reason was for ruling them out.

Most of those interested in hurling in Waterford that i have heard talking would now say that now is the time to say to Davy "Thanks for all you have done, we wish you all the best in what ever you do in the future" and to appoint someone new.

People talk about an aging Waterford team, but this is happening with years. The players we have are as good as what any other county have and if they had the right person over them, they are not far from winning that Celtic Cross they all want.

I would love to get everyone that has played for Waterford since 2008 into a room and to hear what they have to say, one on one. I would be interested in particular to hear what the players that walked away from the panel have to say. some have gave hints as to there thinking. It would be interesting to hear from the players that have walked away to see if there is a common denominator as to why they did.

Deise Tom

adrian522 wrote: »

Playing with essentially 2 forwards one of whom looked completely disinterested and leaving talent like Dana ......... on the sideline.

Idiotic management really.

Ah, no, 40 years ago maybe she might have all kinds of everything, but now adays, forget it.

parker kent

deisedevil wrote: »

Yet again there's a few prize fools with the incorrect opinion that Waterford are an ageing team and are past it. You obviously haven't much of a clue about the Waterford team and panel and are saying the same thing that has been said every year with a long time now and time and time again Waterfords so called past it team have come back and been successful.

Last 5 years waterford have been in Semi-Finals and have been ranked anything from 2nd to 4th each of those years.

We lost Flynn and everyone decided we were finished. Did we not still go on and win a Munster final and make Semi-Finals two years in a row after he left?

The only player off the first team that will go this year will probably be Tony Browne. One player gone from the first team, a few good young lads found this year (one who is a shoe in for young player of the year).

Waterford have been finding players every year. Will Cork be able to get over the loss of their players who may bow out? Have they got much coming through? That's a team that are past it if your looking for one.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but it is not a "prize fool" who points out that Tony Browne, Ken McGrath and Dan Shanahan are aging and are difficult to replace.

Cork though are in a far worse state and Waterford should be safe as the number two in Munster.

deisedevil

parker kent wrote: »

I agree with a lot of what you say, but it is not a "prize fool" who points out that Tony Browne, Ken McGrath and Dan Shanahan are aging and are difficult to replace.

Cork though are in a far worse state and Waterford should be safe as the number two in Munster.

One first team player, who might be retiring. One sub who is retiring and another who might retire. It wasn't just a case of someone pointing out that these three are difficult to replace, I was speaking about those who foolishly say that Waterford are finished yet again, that same drum gets beat every year.

My point is that we have had players retiring every year and every year I hear the same thing, time is almost up for this team, this is their last chance, they are getting too old etc. etc. Well going on that you would swear we were still playing with Hartley, Frampton, Billy O'Sullivan, Brian Greene, Peter Queally etc. And it's rarely anyone in the county who's saying it, just outsiders who know very little about the team and how it has changed and evolved over the years. Ken McGrath had little or nothing to do with the team last year and little or nothing to do with it this year, Dan Shanahan scored one important goal but all of a sudden we're supposedly in big trouble now that we might not have two of these players who we weren't hugely dependant on anyway? Tony Browne would be a big loss but not the death of a whole team.

Yet since we won Munster in 2002 we have been the most successful team in the provincial championship and have been in many AI semi-finals including 5 in a row for the last 5 years.

And now we have more young lads coming through who have been given great experience with the senior squad than we have ever had before.
One young lad, Noel Connors, who has every chance of being awarded young player of the year. Sullivan who is a prime example of a young player who has been with the squad a few years and turned into a great first team player and should get at least a nomination for an all star, Richie Foley's the same. We have a few Under 21's who will do well next season after gaining some experience with the seniors this year.

Waterford are still miles from winning an AI but they are far from finished. We have been in the top 4 for the past 5 years and we'll be still top 4 next year.

djScarey

Waterford are in transition which is exactly why Davy should be kept on at least another year. Face it, Deise were never going to beat either Tipperary or Kilkenny when it mattered this year. KK and Tipp were most people's clear Nos. 1 & 2 from the start of the Championship, the true ranking order yet to be determined. When Davy began as manager, most people were writing off Waterford altogether, their era over etc etc. But there you go a Munster Title and an All Ireland semi-final this year when it was supposed to be really over for the Deise.

Davy over-relied on building a defence, but why not when the only real class forward is Mullane and if he is closely marked (see Tipp match eg), there's not a whole lot left in the armoury. This Waterford has not got a whole lot of scoring in it. Davy has made tactical and selection mistakes (the armchair fan never does, of course). Who doesn't? Sheedy eg was quick to dispatch Young, who previously had played blinders for Tipp, but Sheedy has a squad to afford to be ruthless. Davy is building one. Be patient and let him.

AnonMous

deisedevil wrote: »

Yet again there's a few prize fools with the incorrect opinion that Waterford are an ageing team and are past it. You obviously haven't much of a clue about the Waterford team and panel and are saying the same thing that has been said every year with a long time now and time and time again Waterfords so called past it team have come back and been successful.

Last 5 years waterford have been in Semi-Finals and have been ranked anything from 2nd to 4th each of those years.

We lost Flynn and everyone decided we were finished. Did we not still go on and win a Munster final and make Semi-Finals two years in a row after he left?

The only player off the first team that will go this year will probably be Tony Browne. One player gone from the first team, a few good young lads found this year (one who is a shoe in for young player of the year).

Waterford have been finding players every year. Will Cork be able to get over the loss of their players who may bow out? Have they got much coming through? That's a team that are past it if your looking for one.

How can an opinion be incorrect? It is only a point of view and everyone is entitled to an opinion. That's where the GAA falls. Any sign of trouble and they always look for one person to blame.

There is a combination of things, in my opinion, that are holding Waterford back. One of them is that they seemed to have forgotten how to do the basics right. Another is that they don't seem to be intelligent hurlers. Prime example was the way they failed to cop on to the short puck outs that Tipperary employed so successfully against them. As well as those, if they fall more than 7 or 8 points behind their opponents, they seem to drop their heads. John Mullane is the only player who gives it 100% all the time.

Getting rid of Davy Fitz is only a short term solution to a long term problem.

They should start from scratch, set out a realistic target (e.g. reach final in 2013) and work from there, starting with basic skills and tactics.

That, in my opinion, would benefit Waterford hugely.

tom thum

TheSpecialOne wrote: »

He deserves to go for making one of the highest scoring teams in hurling into a team who look to suck the life out of the other team...Justin's waterford where a serious hurling team who played super stuff...Davy came in and played negative crap and got hammered when it counted.

i think it will be hard for waterford to get any decent manger in after the disgusting way justin was treated.

Professey Chin

djScarey wrote: »

Waterford are in transition which is exactly why Davy should be kept on at least another year. Face it, Deise were never going to beat either Tipperary or Kilkenny when it mattered this year. KK and Tipp were most people's clear Nos. 1 & 2 from the start of the Championship, the true ranking order yet to be determined. When Davy began as manager, most people were writing off Waterford altogether, their era over etc etc. But there you go a Munster Title and an All Ireland semi-final this year when it was supposed to be really over for the Deise.

Davy over-relied on building a defence, but why not when the only real class forward is Mullane and if he is closely marked (see Tipp match eg), there's not a whole lot left in the armoury. This Waterford has not got a whole lot of scoring in it. Davy has made tactical and selection mistakes (the armchair fan never does, of course). Who doesn't? Sheedy eg was quick to dispatch Young, who previously had played blinders for Tipp, but Sheedy has a squad to afford to be ruthless. Davy is building one. Be patient and let him.

This has been pointed out before and is just a case of short term memory.We're not scoring much with the way davy has us set up to play.A few years ago these players were racking up scores like 2-24,3-22 etc.Theres plenty of scoring ability in the team but its not gonna happen when we're playing with 1 or 2 forwards

Deise Tom

djScarey wrote: »

Face it, Deise were never going to beat either Tipperary or Kilkenny when it mattered this year.

I disagree. If we had a manager that knew how to plan things we could easily have beaten them. its no good going into a game trying the same thing in every game. it might work once or twice but it wont all the time.

ArtVandelay76

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

This has been pointed out before and is just a case of short term memory.We're not scoring much with the way davy has us set up to play.A few years ago these players were racking up scores like 2-24,3-22 etc.Theres plenty of scoring ability in the team but its not gonna happen when we're playing with 1 or 2 forwards

Its a bit hard to rack up a big score when the manager has you set up playing a system of playing 2 forwards,5 midfielders and 4 halfbacks,
then using the tactic of playing a long ball into the 2 forwards, when they could have played a running game with the abundance of players in the middle of the field.There was plenty of times when a simple short pass to a player not ten to 15 yards away was on, but instead it was belted up to the forward line and just came straight back out.
Anyone watching the game could see that but the management done nothing about it.

deisedevil

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

This has been pointed out before and is just a case of short term memory.We're not scoring much with the way davy has us set up to play.A few years ago these players were racking up scores like 2-24,3-22 etc.Theres plenty of scoring ability in the team but its not gonna happen when we're playing with 1 or 2 forwards

That's true.

Davy went over the top with the defensive tactics. Should have been more of a balance and that might have seen us doing better against Tipp.

Justin was too much for free flowing, all scoring hurling. Davy this year was too defense minded. Next year hopefully we see a better balance, if that's possible with this team.

deisedevil

AnonMous wrote: »

How can an opinion be incorrect? It is only a point of view and everyone is entitled to an opinion. That's where the GAA falls. Any sign of trouble and they always look for one person to blame.

There is a combination of things, in my opinion, that are holding Waterford back. One of them is that they seemed to have forgotten how to do the basics right. Another is that they don't seem to be intelligent hurlers. Prime example was the way they failed to cop on to the short puck outs that Tipperary employed so successfully against them. As well as those, if they fall more than 7 or 8 points behind their opponents, they seem to drop their heads. John Mullane is the only player who gives it 100% all the time.

Getting rid of Davy Fitz is only a short term solution to a long term problem.

They should start from scratch, set out a realistic target (e.g. reach final in 2013) and work from there, starting with basic skills and tactics.

That, in my opinion, would benefit Waterford hugely.

In my opinion, the opinion that Waterford are an ageing team is incorrect. and that's why I challenged that opinion. (that's how this usually plays out if you didn't realise, people agree and disagree with opinions much the same as you did with your post)

On the short puck outs. Did you not realise that it was a deliberate decision by management to do nothing about it, not a problem with the intelligence of the hurlers. Poor decision by management might I add.

So Waterford have managed to be the most successful in Munster since 2002 and been in 5 AI Semi-Finals and a Final but the reason they haven't been able to win an AI is because they haven't got the basic skills neccessary. You could really do a bit better than that surely, I mean how on earth do you think that? Are you saying that next year a manager will need to go out and show the lads how to strike a ball, block, jab lift etc. and then we will win an AI. Give me strength! :rolleyes:

AnonMous

deisedevil wrote: »

In my opinion, the opinion that Waterford are an ageing team is incorrect. and that's why I challenged that opinion. (that's how this usually plays out if you didn't realise, people agree and disagree with opinions much the same as you did with your post)

On the short puck outs. Did you not realise that it was a deliberate decision by management to do nothing about it, not a problem with the intelligence of the hurlers. Poor decision by management might I add.

So Waterford have managed to be the most successful in Munster since 2002 and been in 5 AI Semi-Finals and a Final but the reason they haven't been able to win an AI is because they haven't got the basic skills neccessary. You could really do a bit better than that surely, I mean how on earth do you think that? Are you saying that next year a manager will need to go out and show the lads how to strike a ball, block, jab lift etc. and then we will win an AI. Give me strength! :rolleyes:

I'm fully aware how opinions work pal, as in agreeing and disagreeing. I was merely pointing out to you after you said that "some prized fool with an incorrect opinion", that an opinion cannot be incorrect. Fair play to you for explaining to me though what an opinion is though, well said.

I'd say your comprehension of the word basics is very limited if you think that I can't see them being able to block, hook, strike a ball etc. What I meant was, let them play 15 vs 15, each man mark a man from the other team rather than employing 5 midfielders, 2 full forwards etc. All these tactics haven't worked for them this year and like it or not, no matter how successful we are in Munster, we are all looking for glory on the first Sunday of September so there is no point in boasting about Munster success any longer. we know we can do that, now it's time for bigger things.

I suspect you'll give me another tongue lashing now and tell me that my opinion is wrong as i'd say in your World, there is only one person's opinion who counts!

P.S. it's more than strength you need

deisedevil

AnonMous wrote: »

I'm fully aware how opinions work pal, as in agreeing and disagreeing. I was merely pointing out to you after you said that "some prized fool with an incorrect opinion", that an opinion cannot be incorrect. Fair play to you for explaining to me though what an opinion is though, well said.

I'd say your comprehension of the word basics is very limited if you think that I can't see them being able to block, hook, strike a ball etc. What I meant was, let them play 15 vs 15, each man mark a man from the other team rather than employing 5 midfielders, 2 full forwards etc. All these tactics haven't worked for them this year and like it or not, no matter how successful we are in Munster, we are all looking for glory on the first Sunday of September so there is no point in boasting about Munster success any longer. we know we can do that, now it's time for bigger things.

I suspect you'll give me another tongue lashing now and tell me that my opinion is wrong as i'd say in your World, there is only one person's opinion who counts!

P.S. it's more than strength you need

Not at all. Don't assume to know someone based on a few words on a forum, I wouldn't be like that at all and I'm not giving you a tongue lashing. (I'd say you have a picture of me being some lunatic sitting at my pc with a big red head hammering at the keys and gnashing teeth. )

If you had explained what you meant by "basics" I might have understood it better and using these exact words: "basic skills and tactics" well what else was I to take from that?

Also, I think that people who are of the opinion that Waterford are an ageing team are foolish. They are fully entitled to think it but I think they are wrong. LOL. Jaysus this is getting ridiculous when i have to go into detail explaining it.

Shur if you think they are an ageing team them tell me why they are and why my opinion is wrong rather than giving out to me for saying I think someone elses opinion is wrong. Wouldn't that be the best thing to do really?

AnonMous

deisedevil wrote: »

Not at all. Don't assume to know someone based on a few words on a forum, I wouldn't be like that at all and I'm not giving you a tongue lashing. (I'd say you have a picture of me being some lunatic sitting at my pc with a big red head hammering at the keys and gnashing teeth. )

If you had explained what you meant by "basics" I might have understood it better and using these exact words: "basic skills and tactics" well what else was I to take from that?

Also, I think that people who are of the opinion that Waterford are an ageing team are foolish. They are fully entitled to think it but I think they are wrong. LOL. Jaysus this is getting ridiculous when i have to go into detail explaining it.

Shur if you think they are an ageing team them tell me why they are and why my opinion is wrong rather than giving out to me for saying I think someone elses opinion is wrong. Wouldn't that be the best thing to do really?

You're actually right there sorry. It's hard to understand what people are saying when all you have is text on the screen.

I never said Waterford are an aging team. I'm a proud supporter and I think they have loads left in their arsenal. It just needs to be managed properly and I think a long term plan is the way to go rather than looking for short term solutions.

It is entirely up to the Co. Board at this stage as to how they proceed. I just hope they think long and hard about the decisions that need to be made.

Be at Peace dude!

Limestone1

tom thum wrote: »

i think it will be hard for waterford to get any decent manger in after the disgusting way justin was treated.

Subsequent events in Limerick would suggest that Justin's time as an intercounty manager is well and truly up.

deisedevil

tom thum wrote: »

i think it will be hard for waterford to get any decent manger in after the disgusting way justin was treated.

I'd say it won't make a blind bit of difference tbh.

tom thum

Limestone1 wrote: »

Subsequent events in Limerick would suggest that Justin's time as an intercounty manager is well and truly up.

yeah. limerick might find it hard too.

tom thum

deisedevil wrote: »

I'd say it won't make a blind bit of difference tbh.

if you were a manager and u saw the way justin was treated would u be quick to take the waterford post. knowing that a certain player got rid of justin. the dog on the street knows that dan got rid of him.

deisedevil

tom thum wrote: »

if you were a manager and u saw the way justin was treated would u be quick to take the waterford post. knowing that a certain player got rid of justin. the dog on the street knows that dan got rid of him.

Dan managed to do it all on his own did he? I know players that were on that panel. Not for the first time on a thread about Waterford GAA you are talking through your anus and making things up. More gossip and shít stirring.

Please stop it!

Dan didn't go out of his way to oust Justin and it wasn't all down to him. Dan not shaking his hand wasn't the reason he went either. You know this and anyone with sense knows it.

Deise Tom

tom thum wrote: »

yeah. limerick might find it hard too.

We should give them Davy

tom thum

deisedevil wrote: »

Dan managed to do it all on his own did he? I know players that were on that panel. Not for the first time on a thread about Waterford GAA you are talking through your anus and making things up. More gossip and shít stirring.

Please stop it!

Dan didn't go out of his way to oust Justin and it wasn't all down to him. Dan not shaking his hand wasn't the reason he went either. You know this and anyone with sense knows it.

well the rumour mill was working overtime so. cos thats what came out of the county.

igas

Lads - look at Kilkenny. Do the simple things right, Each man has to beat his man and do something useful with the ball when you have it, forwards become backs when you lose the ball etc - all simple stuff done right.

Bringing corner forwards out the field to crowd midfield wont work at that level. Dan was/is a fine hurler but he's a last 20 minute man now. Mullane is good at picking up loose ball and drawing frees and posing for the camera. He'd be better employed getting stuck in and winning the "dirty" ball and inspiring the team that way than throwing hissy fits for the camera (like against Tipp throwing off his helmet etc). Tony Browne is 10 times the hurler over Mullane (you wont see him putting on a show for the cameras, he lets his hurl do the talking).

I'm no Davy fan but he's done a lot for Waterford and i think he'd have the balls to move on the big names and introduce some new talent which he has to do now. He has to blend the new with the old NOW. He cant wait till Dan & co decide themselves to move on. He has to stay recycling players and Waterford fans have to support him doing it and not baying for blood every time they get bet!

deisedevil

tom thum wrote: »

well the rumour mill was working overtime so. cos thats what came out of the county.

You have heard some pile of bullshít rumours. Whoever is feeding it to you shouldn't be trusted.

tom thum

deisedevil wrote: »

You have heard some pile of bullshít rumours. Whoever is feeding it to you shouldn't be trusted.

well to be fair, i dunno who to believe cos ive read a fair bit of waffle on here asit is. plus, whos to say the player you know is giving you the full story?

patmac

Can't believe this thread, ye won a Munster title the second best title in hurling despite the fact that most people tipped Tipp and Cork to win it and now ye want to get rid of the manager. Beyond belief, some GAA fans are way too fickle.
Can't wait for the Cody out brigade to raise their heads when Kilkenny lose (probably sometime around 2020).

deisedevil

tom thum wrote: »

well to be fair, i dunno who to believe cos ive read a fair bit of waffle on here asit is. plus, whos to say the player you know is giving you the full story?

Not player, players. I'd trust the players themselves and the man in question before I would trust you. (or whoever your getting the great inside scoops from, lol)

deisedevil

patmac wrote: »

Can't believe this thread, ye won a Munster title the second best title in hurling despite the fact that most people tipped Tipp and Cork to win it and now ye want to get rid of the manager. Beyond belief, some GAA fans are way too fickle.
Can't wait for the Cody out brigade to raise their heads when Kilkenny lose (probably sometime around 2020).

Justin McCarthy won Munster titles with us too, did he look like he was close to getting an AI out of us? Neither does Davy.

If Tipp hadn't had such a poor start would we have won that Munster title? Cork were brutal in fairness.

I don't think any manager, even Cody himself, will be able to bring us an AI next season. We really need to bring in a manager from the county who doesn't have to spend half a day travelling just to get here for training and will be able to get around to plenty of matches and see players for himself and be able to get involved more with underage. Basically we need someone who has the time and the backing from the board to be given at least three years to build a team from the very young up the way and have a squad in three years time that look like they can challenge for an AI.

cremeegg

I dunno... im sick of looking at him and listening to him... he has this thing where he thinks the whole world revolves around him...