What would YOU do to bring about economic recovery?

Ren2k7

A lot of treads here discuss the many errors past governments have made that have brought us to where we are today, jobless and broke.

But that was then and this is now so what I would like to know is how you would go about fixing the economy if you were sitting in the big seat at Government Buildings. My suggestions would be to reduce spending by cutting social welfare to reduce the deficit and improve competitiveness by lowering corporation tax to 10%.

Other's may have different thoughts so lets be having them.

LookBehindYou

They should lead by example, firstly by taking a huge paycut, and then scrapping their expenses and get free travel tickets for state owned transport.
maybe ship the so called asylum seekers from Butlins to Spike island.

Toe Twister

Start my own business!

And I'm chipping away on some software that may turn into just that down the road. I think we'll be a long time waiting for the government to do anything, so we're better off seeing what we can do ourselves.

demonspawn

I would start by putting all the back-benchers and jr. ministers on minimum wage or thereabouts. I'd cut all TDs and ministers salaries by at least 15%. No, that won't make them more susceptible to corruption, they're all pretty corrupt on their fat salaries. I'd get rid of the Seanad completely, they're a waste of taxpayers money. PR consultants for government officials would be banned.

I would make the wealthiest in this country pay their share for once.

I'd re-nationalize the country's off-shore petroleum resources. I'd legalize hemp (not necessarily cannabis, though that would increase tax revenue drastically) and encourage farmers to grow it. I would invest in hemp production facilities to produce textiles, paper, building materials, etc. I would invest in a major recycling facility to produce recycled goods instead of spending millions each year to ship our recyclable waste out of the country. Basically I would encourage native, sustainable industry.

I could go on and on, but these are just a few of the things I would do before even considering taking from the most vulnerable in this country.

xp90

Ren2k7 wrote: »

A lot of treads here discuss the many errors past governments have made that have brought us to where we are today, jobless and broke.

But that was then and this is now so what I would like to know is how you would go about fixing the economy if you were sitting in the big seat at Government Buildings. My suggestions would be to reduce spending by cutting social welfare to reduce the deficit and improve competitiveness by lowering corporation tax to 10%.

Other's may have different thoughts so lets be having them.

Get the seoige sisters and twink to mud wrestle whilst pat kenny awkwardly commentates.€50 a ticket in the aviva stadium 7nights a week,we'll be out of the recession in a fortnight

Senna

New highest tax bracket
Bring in self assessment property tax (size of house, areas by zone etc)
Cut minimum wage
Transfer motor tax to petrol (as VAT)
Increase TAX on all chocolate, soft drinks, fast food, etc

Huge reformation of local politics, councillors, mayors (cuts)
Cut the amount of TD's
Abolish Sheanad

demonspawn

xp90 wrote: »

Get the seoige sisters and twink to mud wrestle whilst pat kenny awkwardly commentates.€50 a ticket in the aviva stadium 7nights a week,we'll be out of the recession in a fortnight

You'd have to pay me 100 euros to attend that particular event.

mikemac

demonspawn wrote: »

I would start by putting all the back-benchers and jr. ministers on minimum wage or thereabouts. I'd cut all TDs and ministers salaries by at least 15%.

Which is it, minimum wage or 15% cut, your post is contradicting itself

demonspawn

feelingstressed wrote: »

Which is it, minimum wage or 15% cut, your post is contradicting itself

They guys sitting at the back "learning the trade" should be on minimum wage. The ones with actual responsibilities and constituencies should get a 15% cut. Maybe they all have constituencies, I'm not exactly sure. I don't think Irish politicians should be holding constituencies if they are elected to a cabinet position.

Cookie_Monster

cut dole by 40%
reduce minimum wage by 20%
reduce rent supplement by 50%
more stringent criteria for claiming various social welfare benefits
Increase PAYE rates
Increase PAYE bands downwards and create third band for higher earners
Privatise CIE
Reform ESB
Abolish HSE and replace with new organisation, allowing no guaranteed admin jobs to be transfer before thorough investigation into need
cut TD numbers to 80-100
Merge City and county councils into 4 regions and Dublin
Reduce Senead remuneration to 50% of current
Reduce TD remuneration to 50% current
Abolish TD expenses
Redirect DF funding to support Navy first and foremost
Reduce employer PRSI and other "anti employment" taxes and red tape
Abolish/merge 60-70% of Quangos
Sell Aer Lingus to Ryanair
Build more prisons
Remove concurrent sentencing
Minimum jail terms for repeat offences
Public service pay cuts, by grade starting at 10% up to 40%
Cease excessive pension benefits for new PS workers
Proper investigation into nuclear generation options
Increase motorway speed limits and other reforms (weather dependant limits, minimum speed etc)
Remove Anglo from guarantee and allow to die
Allow at least one of the other banks to die
Support the rest on the understanding that 75%+ of any profits goes to gov until debt repaid

dan_d

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

cut dole by 40%
Reduce minimum wage by 20%
Reduce rent supplement by 50%
More stringent criteria for claiming various social welfare benefits - onus on the social welfare to check everything out, rather than the onus being on the claimant to provide information.
Increase PAYE rates
Increase PAYE bands downwards and create third band for higher earners
Privatise CIE - Unsure on this. It may possibly be better to simply treat it as the HSE is treated. Top heavy with unions, overpaid people not doing enough work for what they earn, and a happy culture of "sure that's how we always do things", as well as people getting their relatives jobs (I know of a few). Take it apart and replace it, but I'm not sure privatising is the way to go.
Reform ESB
Abolish HSE and replace with new organisation, allowing no guaranteed admin jobs to be transfer before thorough investigation into need
Cut TD numbers to 80-100
Merge City and county councils into 4 regions and Dublin
Reduce Senead remuneration to 50% of current
Reduce TD remuneration to 50% current
Abolish TD expenses
Redirect DF funding to support Navy first and foremost
Reduce employer PRSI and other "anti employment" taxes and red tape
Abolish/merge 60-70% of Quangos
Sell Aer Lingus to Ryanair
Build more prisons
Remove concurrent sentencing
Minimum jail terms for repeat offences
Public service pay cuts, by grade starting at 10% up to 40%
Cease excessive pension benefits for new PS workers
Proper investigation into nuclear generation options-I'd go for investigating our natural resources. We are in a position to make huge use of wind and wave energy.Worth doing before nuclear, as it's already started as renewable energy.
Increase motorway speed limits and other reforms (weather dependant limits, minimum speed etc)
Remove Anglo from guarantee and allow to die
Allow at least one of the other banks to die
Support the rest on the understanding that 75%+ of any profits goes to gov until debt repaid

As part of social welfare and overall reform, I'd also ensure a central database was set up, based on the PPS cards that most people already have, containing necessary background and working information on everyone, that is accessible to all Gov depts, to avoid social welfare cheating, and the complete lack of communication between Gov depts.

I'd also go through all civil service depts and those on very high wages, and offset against the "consultants" that keep being called in to advise...abolish as necessary.

Adopt a harder line with unions - work with me, or work against me.

Invest in public transport until it was coming out people's ears. Link the Luas lines. Run 2/3 Luas lines out to the north and north west of Dublin. Ensure buses connect with trains, which connect with Luas. Connect Dublin Airport to the rail network with a luas/dart line...there's a lot of land between the airport and the train line into the city that can be crossed, above ground. Link Dublin by train to major cities, with trains running every hour/45 mins for cheap return fares, and to lesser towns/cities with trains every hour/hour and 15 mins.Motorways are done, we shouldn't be investing any more in them. Offer people an alternative. A PROPER alternative. Needless to say, there will be an associated jobs spin off.

Start investing in people's quality of life. Set up a scheme whereby local communities can fundraise and upon reaching a certain amount, get a grant, towards building a community pool/hall/outdoor pitches etc for their area. Incentives to local builders who do the work.People's quality of life is not considered enough in this country - it's not enough to build an estate and say "there you go".

Some of those things are small as well as nationwide. But you have to start somewhere I suppose. And I took the lazy route and hijacked the Cookie Monsters suggestions (sorry), which are excellent!!

sparksfly

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

cut dole by 40%
reduce minimum wage by 20%
reduce rent supplement by 50%
more stringent criteria for claiming various social welfare benefits
Increase PAYE rates
Increase PAYE bands downwards and create third band for higher earners
Privatise CIE
Reform ESB
Abolish HSE and replace with new organisation, allowing no guaranteed admin jobs to be transfer before thorough investigation into need
cut TD numbers to 80-100
Merge City and county councils into 4 regions and Dublin
Reduce Senead remuneration to 50% of current
Reduce TD remuneration to 50% current
Abolish TD expenses
Redirect DF funding to support Navy first and foremost
Reduce employer PRSI and other "anti employment" taxes and red tape
Abolish/merge 60-70% of Quangos
Sell Aer Lingus to Ryanair
Build more prisons
Remove concurrent sentencing
Minimum jail terms for repeat offences
Public service pay cuts, by grade starting at 10% up to 40%
Cease excessive pension benefits for new PS workers
Proper investigation into nuclear generation options
Increase motorway speed limits and other reforms (weather dependant limits, minimum speed etc)
Remove Anglo from guarantee and allow to die
Allow at least one of the other banks to die
Support the rest on the understanding that 75%+ of any profits goes to gov until debt repaid

Why increase paye rates on thousands of struggling taxpayers who are already picking up the tab for every scrounger and gangster in the country. Other gobsh1tes suggest adding property tax to the already hard pressed mortgage payer, many who bought a vastly overpriced house thanks to the Galway tent brigade.
There is not one mention of job creation so far.
Our biggest group of professional beggars, the farmers, get away with not paying one cent in commercial rates while grabbing every grant and subsity thats going. Holland with half our area and 16.5 million people export 10 times more agri / food / engineering produce than we do.
We have a filthy, litter strewn, ragworth infested country while we pay almost 500,000 people to stay in bed.
Compare the tourist revenue from canals and the lake districts in the UK and Europe with our canal and lake amenities, we are shameful.
We allow native export companies to die for the sake of a few million euro while pouring endless billions into zombie banks.
When you see the likes of Jackie Healy Rae and his moron followers influencing government policy, it says it all about us as a nation.

Cookie_Monster

Unsure on this. It may possibly be better to simply treat it as the HSE is treated. Top heavy with unions, overpaid people not doing enough work for what they earn, and a happy culture of "sure that's how we always do things", as well as people getting their relatives jobs (I know of a few). Take it apart and replace it, but I'm not sure privatising is the way to go.

I'd go for investigating our natural resources. We are in a position to make huge use of wind and wave energy.Worth doing before nuclear, as it's already started as renewable energy.

On these two. We are already investing lots in renewables so I would not change this, I would add nuclear to the equation.

As for CIE. Irish rail is a shambolic, dangerous, corrupt organisation. The recent report out show they purposely put passengers in danger for years in relation to the Malahide Viaduct. Do like the UK, get someone like DB Shenker (German Rail) in to run it and get rid of every single management person it IR.

DB and BE run reasonably good operations and should probably simply be spilt from CIE to their own separate state companies, or maybe private. A situation like the Luas operation may be best. Gov owns the stock and infrastructure but operates a licence to run it.

sparksfly wrote:

Why increase paye rates on thousands of struggling taxpayers who are already picking up the tab for every scrounger and gangster in the country. Other gobsh1tes suggest adding property tax to the already hard pressed mortgage payer, many who bought a vastly overpriced house thanks to the Galway tent brigade.

Because tax rates in this country are, in reality, very low. (I fully support a property tax, dependant on the measure used to calculate it)

Jaysoose

I would buy Brian Lenihan and the entire department of finance a brand new calculator each as the ones currently being used must be defective.

hiorta

Good on yer, Ren2k7, you're looking forward.
The wake is surely over, the Ireland of yesterday is buried and tomorrow beckons. Great news.

rumour

Ren2k7 wrote: »

A lot of treads here discuss the many errors past governments have made that have brought us to where we are today, jobless and broke.

But that was then and this is now so what I would like to know is how you would go about fixing the economy if you were sitting in the big seat at Government Buildings. My suggestions would be to reduce spending by cutting social welfare to reduce the deficit and improve competitiveness by lowering corporation tax to 10%.

Other's may have different thoughts so lets be having them.

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.

sparksfly

Because tax rates in this country are, in reality, very low. (I fully support a property tax, dependant on the measure used to calculate it)[/QUOTE]

Tax rates may seem low on average, especially when some high and low earners (and all unemployed) pay no tax at all. When you see the lack of services provided in Ireland compared to other countries, from tax revenue, our tax rates, especially for middle earners, are not so low.
Property prices in Ireland were allowed to go out of control. For many of the already mentioned middle earners who have large mortgages on these overpriced properties, further tax of any kind for this sector of the population is out of the question. All you will get is more reposessions which will defeat any benefit that you might expect.

whatawaster

Social Welfare: Aim to reduce by 15% in year one, and 15% in year two. Reductions across the board but we particularly need to hit the long-term “won’t work” group.
This will hopefully save over 5bn a year

Public Sector Pay: Refuse to answer phone calls from Unions. Abolish any semblance of benchmarking and go through each department in detail looking for savings. Particularly focus on the highest paid, but cuts need to be made everywhere. Aim to cut wage bill by 15% in year one and by 15% in year two.

Tax: Reduce Corporation Tax to 10%. Increase Stamp Duties. Bring in a tax credit for self-employed to match PAYE credits. Increase CGT and CAT.

Minimum Wage: Lower by 10% in year one, by 5% in year two, by 5% in year three

Capital: Link the two Luas lines, Metro North and other Metro lines to follow. Privatise national railway and upgrade rail infrastructure. Invest properly and quickly in the most modern, up-to-date broadband infrastructure money can buy.

Healthcare: I like Fine Gael’s faircare policy a lot.

Cookie_Monster

sparksfly wrote: »

Tax rates may seem low on average, especially when some high and low earners (and all unemployed) pay no tax at all. When you see the lack of services provided in Ireland compared to other countries, from tax revenue, our tax rates, especially for middle earners, are not so low.

Many other indirect taxes are low also in comparison, and yes services aren't up to standard but it "chicken and egg" to justify more tax you need better services, to get better services you need more tax"

sparksfly wrote: »

Property prices in Ireland were allowed to go out of control.

why should they have been controlled and by whom?

For many of the already mentioned middle earners who have large mortgages on these overpriced properties, further tax of any kind for this sector of the population is out of the question.

they only have large mortgage through their own fault, no one made them buy a massively overpriced house with a 100% mortgage

All you will get is more repossessions which will defeat any benefit that you might expect.

someone will still own the house and have to pay it, be in investors, private individuals, banks, etc

SeaFields

This concept of substantially cutting the dole to get the long term unemployed into employment is mistimed.

It would have been a sound move five years ago when there was full employment but these days it is about the only thing that is keeping an awful lot of people above water through no fault of their own.

whatawaster

SeaFields wrote: »

This concept of substantially cutting the dole to get the long term unemployed into employment is mistimed.

It would have been a sound move five years ago when there was full employment but these days it is about the only thing that is keeping an awful lot of people above water through no fault of their own.

Social Welfare accounts for a massive percentage of our total Revenue as far as i remember. If it isn't substantially cut there may be no money to pay it at all in a couple of years

Mr. Presentable

Reduce employers PRSI
Reduce Unemployment payments by 25%
Reduce rent allowance by 50%
Bring everyone earning into the tax net
Build a tunnel to connect us to mainland Europe
Allow business v business claims in the Small Claims Court


We need to reduce costs and create an incentive to work. I know people who never worked, even during the period of full employment, because they can have as good a life on welfare as a middle income family, and be able to stay in bed all day! These people need to be incentivised.

We also need to allow everyone to contribute to the running costs of the state. Minimum wage should only be a short term position for any employee, but they should still make a contribution.

We need infrastructure, but not just within the island. We need to get traffic onto the island in the first place.

Small business cannot survive when being used as a credit facility by customers. Currently we are losing tens of small businesses every day, purely because customers can't/won't pay their bills. There needs to be a cheap and easy way of redress.

SeaFields

whatawaster wrote: »

Social Welfare accounts for a massive percentage of our total Revenue as far as i remember. If it isn't substantially cut there may be no money to pay it at all in a couple of years

I know that.

I just hate everyone being labelled as a scrounger or waster when they are on the dole because i know people that worked damn hard all their lives and because of the get rich attitude of the elite in this country, they now find themselves out of work with little prospects ( I include my father in this who worked for 35 years before being made unemployed two years ago).

At the end of the day this is one BIG fcuking mess created by individuals who will never know whats its like to worry if they will have enough to pay the bills or put food on the table.


EDIT - Im dragging the thread off topic so will leave it at that.

Cookie_Monster

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Build a tunnel to connect us to mainland Europe

do you really think the €500bn+ to build this would be justified? never mind maintainance

Mr. Presentable

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

do you really think the €500bn+ to build this would be justified? never mind maintainance

I have no idea what it would cost, but it would only have to link to the UK, not Spain!

As an aside, how does your suggestion to increase the speed limit contribute to economic growth?

KindOfIrish

No need to invent bicycle. Just copy Denmark to the smallest detail and we will be fine in 5 years time.

MrDarcy

Here's what I'd do, first of all I'd disband the County Enterprise Board structure. I'd then allocate a new budget of 10,000,000 Euro and I'd set up a new team of people called The Enterprise Team. These people would be private sector people who would go into every Social Welfare office on signing on day and set up a desk there beside the queue of people waiting to sign on.

The theory here would be that in a society, you have people who are leaders, who have business ideas BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, also have the get up and go to implement these ideas. You also have those who are equally important in the process but are more followers, they prefer to get direction rather than give it, and are in a place in their minds where employment sits better with them than being the employer.

I'd give this Enterprise Team very specific targets with regard to drawing people out of the dole queue who have good innovative ideas, who are prepared to give them a go. Behind the scenes in all of this, a local IDA unit or some unused government property would have been identified to use as a base for this project in each locality.

As each business starts up, I'd be marrying up people in the dole queue with the necessary experience with individual businesses. Each local centre would have experienced business people who would give their time in the evenings and on an "on call" basis in a voluntary capacity not unlike like credit union members do.

I'm not clear on the finer details but I went down with a friend recently to the dole office when he was signing on and I couldn't get over the fact that there was nothing whatsoever in place to target people who might want to get off the dole, I was shocked by that, just sign the card and see ye next month... There were around 300 plus people down there that day, at least 30 people in that queue must have had a good idea that would have been fit to bring to market with a bit of support.

who what when

Something ive been thinking about for a long time that i really cant see any downside to is this.

The government should, through their own airline Aer Lingus, do a free flights giveaway every year. Say 10000 free flights throughout western Europe. Obviously aim it at the quieter tourist months such as april or may and at countries that arent generally known for holidaying in ireland.


When you do the sums you can really see the benifit of!

The average return flight to western Europe is around €150 of which half is taxes anyway so say each flight costs the government €75 thats a total cost of €750,000.
Now the benefits, say each customer spends €400 on accomodation, 200 on food, €100 on travel and €100 on general spending.
Thats €800 altogether and the figures ive used are very very conservative for a weeks holiday in ireland.
Anyway all and all i reckon those 10000 passenger would spend at least 8 million euro. Its a win win situation for everyone concerned.

By the way the 10,000 passengers was just to keep the figures simple, it could be any multiple of that. 50k, 100k or even 500k, why not.
Now please start telling why this is a ridulous idea and how it could never work!

mikemac

Broadband

Now with national debt and serious issues like access to heathcare it may seems a frivallous spend.
But it's an investment.

I'd say most people on boards are in one of our main cities.
Many rural areas are still on dial up and it may be years before broadband is national. However, they achieved this in Northern Ireland already.
But I'm not aiming at the home users yet, we'll get them someday but first:

At a minimum, every town should have access to broadband. Our town achieved this in 2005, wow and people in cities have this for over five years before
Many local towns have a business park run and a county enterprise boards.
Let the vacant units at cheap or even minimal rents to new startups instead of having them sit idle.

Rent is a killer for many small businesses. With the broadband access they can then network and market their business. And this helps startups away from the main cities where there are fewer options for job seekers

Hey, maybe this already exists I don't know.

SeaFields

RE - free flights idea.

Thats familiar. I dunno if it has been mentioned here before or if there is another EU country doing it at present. Prob some EU competition law against it but good idea nonetheless.

Cookie_Monster

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

As an aside, how does your suggestion to increase the speed limit contribute to economic growth?

brings it in line with most standard European limits

everyone can get to work faster too

carlaboi

demonspawn wrote: »

They guys sitting at the back "learning the trade" should be on minimum wage. The ones with actual responsibilities and constituencies should get a 15% cut. Maybe they all have constituencies, I'm not exactly sure. I don't think Irish politicians should be holding constituencies if they are elected to a cabinet position.

Some of the replies on this thread are a joke but in relation to the one above you dont seem to understand politics in Ireland. All TD's including Ministers and Ministers of State are from a constituency and elected by the people of that area. All politics in Ireland is local hence why getting a lampost, a pothole or attending every funeral in your constituency will get you voted in more than actually tackling national politics. The need for Ministers of State is questionable however there purpose is to take responsiblity of a particular area in a department like in Education Sean Haughey looks after School Transport and Youth affairs.

Brussels Sprout

Excellent idea for a thread.

We can talk about cutting welfare and PS wages all we want but that’s not going to get us out of the mess we are in.

The key to growth is the private sector which is currently on its knees. One of the biggest problems is lack of liquidity in terms of credit. The banks are not lending money and this is having a devastating knock on effect down the financial food-chain. This is an understandable reaction after the excesses of the Celtic Tiger era however it’s got to the stage where the guarantees required for loans are far too much. If we want to get business going again then we need to ease lending criteria. In my fictional role as leader I’m not sure exactly what I could do about this but I would make it my priority. After all I’m fairly certain the banks will come calling looking for more public money in the future so I would make it a requirement that to get it they will have to relax their lending criteria.

I would not reduce corporation tax. I believe that many of the multi-nationals are teetering on the edge in Ireland at the moment and that raising tax would be the incentive they need to relocate their plants with their high paid jobs elsewhere. This is certainly the case in the pharmaceutical industry. In the long term we need to move away from an economy that is so dependent on this sector but in the short term we need them a hell of a lot more than they need us.

There has to be more of an emphasis on entrepeneurs and start-ups. The fact remains that it has always been difficult to start a company in Ireland, now more so than ever. If we want to break the dependence on foreign multi-nationals then this should be the area in which we need to develop. The current government agencies are inadequate in dealing with this issue. The recent your country your call was a step in the right direction although in reality it was a shambles. We do need to encourage people to think positively and constructively.

I do believe that both public sector wages and welfare need to be cut. We simply cannot afford to borrow money at excessive rates from the bind markets in order to keep paying these bills which are pegged to boom-time private sector wages. I would dissolve the social partnership and negotiate a new agreement with fairer and more realistic wages and benefits. I’d relax the rules regarding termination of full-time staff and I’d end the system whereby wages are linked to time served. This would undoubtably lead to strikes but I think it is in the long term best interests of the country.

I’d link social welfare payments to PRSI in a more direct way. There would be a base-line payment for dole payments (of around E100 per week). If you’ve been contributing to PRSI then you’ll get more money up to a maximum of E200. I’d give more teeth to organizations investigating social welfare fraud. To be honest this whole system is so complex and abused that I’d need to take on a lot of advice on it but ultimately I’d want people to get enough money so that they can cover the essentials without it being enough that they see it as preferable to working. Going to work should always be seen as better than being on welfare.

The health system is a mess. Once again it’s quite complex and has confounded many ministers. We get very little out of the large amount of money spent on it. It seems that a large amount of power is held by people in management within the HSE. This organization needs to be looked at from an external body (preferably one from another country). The recommendations would be implemented including any cuts to salaries of consultants. I wouldn’t be too worried about them leaving the country as it would be difficult for them to earn as much elsewhere anyway.

I’d abolish the Seanad, reduce the numbers in the Dail by a third and reduce TD’s salaries by a third also. I’d then dissolve the current parliament and call immediate elections.

I could write so much more-the above are only broad outlines.

Growing up in the 80s I think a lot of people had an inferiority complex about the country. Italia 90 and then the Eurovision victories helped us out of this (laugh if you want but I believe that this is true). Then the Celtic tiger kicked off based on our location and strong educational background attracting investment from large companies. Suddenly there was a lot of confidence which in the end turned to arrogance and a sense of entitlement. Now that our economy tanked we’re left with those feelings. I don’t want us to go back to the 80’s mentality but I do think that we need to accept that we’re not a wealthy country. The sooner we realise this the better it will be better for us all in the long run.

carlaboi

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

cut dole by 40%
reduce minimum wage by 20%
reduce rent supplement by 50%
more stringent criteria for claiming various social welfare benefits
Increase PAYE rates
Increase PAYE bands downwards and create third band for higher earners
Privatise CIE
Reform ESB
Abolish HSE and replace with new organisation, allowing no guaranteed admin jobs to be transfer before thorough investigation into need
cut TD numbers to 80-100
Merge City and county councils into 4 regions and Dublin
Reduce Senead remuneration to 50% of current
Reduce TD remuneration to 50% current
Abolish TD expenses
Redirect DF funding to support Navy first and foremost
Reduce employer PRSI and other "anti employment" taxes and red tape
Abolish/merge 60-70% of Quangos
Sell Aer Lingus to Ryanair
Build more prisons
Remove concurrent sentencing
Minimum jail terms for repeat offences
Public service pay cuts, by grade starting at 10% up to 40%
Cease excessive pension benefits for new PS workers
Proper investigation into nuclear generation options
Increase motorway speed limits and other reforms (weather dependant limits, minimum speed etc)
Remove Anglo from guarantee and allow to die
Allow at least one of the other banks to die
Support the rest on the understanding that 75%+ of any profits goes to gov until debt repaid

Ok I have a number of issues with this,How is cutting the dole payment by 40% going to do anything other than reduce the amount spent on dole payments. Ireland is still an expensice country to live in, food is not cheap etc. Privatise CIE - Who would have it? Irelands Rail network is too small, bus eireann and Dublin bus you could sell I suppose. Abolish the HSE? Didnt we already do that with the health boards and look at it now! The problem with the HSE is the Unions who oppose change. Mary Harney wanted rid of the admin staff when she set it up but she wasnt allowed to reduce them as the unions would not co operate with the changes. Instead of reducing the Seanad just abolish it. Why the Navy?Build more prisons, Remove concurrent sentencing, Minimum jail terms for repeat offences - How will this help us? All public servants have already taken 3 pay cuts, when everyone in the private sector takes 3 pay cuts Id have no problem going again. Pension for Public Sector has been dealt with already. Why do people in the private sector think that public servants should be on less money than they are?Motorway speed limits will do nothing for the economy. Allowing banks to die will cost the same or more in the long term. (BTW I dont agree with the gov position in bailing them out)

argosy2006

give everyone aged 18- 60 70,000 and tell them they have to spend it with in 12 months,:D

dan_d

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

On these two. We are already investing lots in renewables so I would not change this, I would add nuclear to the equation.

As for CIE. Irish rail is a shambolic, dangerous, corrupt organisation. The recent report out show they purposely put passengers in danger for years in relation to the Malahide Viaduct. Do like the UK, get someone like DB Shenker (German Rail) in to run it and get rid of every single management person it IR.

DB and BE run reasonably good operations and should probably simply be spilt from CIE to their own separate state companies, or maybe private. A situation like the Luas operation may be best. Gov owns the stock and infrastructure but operates a licence to run it.

True. I agree with that. I know the benefits vs the dangers of privatising public transport, which is why I don't think outright privatisation is necessarily the answer. The Luas solution might be a better one.

Cookie_Monster

carlaboi wrote: »

Ok I have a number of issues with this,How is cutting the dole payment by 40% going to do anything other than reduce the amount spent on dole payments. Ireland is still an expensice country to live in, food is not cheap etc. Privatise CIE - Who would have it? Irelands Rail network is too small, bus eireann and Dublin bus you could sell I suppose. Abolish the HSE? Didnt we already do that with the health boards and look at it now! The problem with the HSE is the Unions who oppose change. Mary Harney wanted rid of the admin staff when she set it up but she wasnt allowed to reduce them as the unions would not co operate with the changes. Instead of reducing the Seanad just abolish it. Why the Navy?Build more prisons, Remove concurrent sentencing, Minimum jail terms for repeat offences - How will this help us? All public servants have already taken 3 pay cuts, when everyone in the private sector takes 3 pay cuts Id have no problem going again. Pension for Public Sector has been dealt with already. Why do people in the private sector think that public servants should be on less money than they are?Motorway speed limits will do nothing for the economy. Allowing banks to die will cost the same or more in the long term. (BTW I dont agree with the gov position in bailing them out)

the Senead is needed as a check against the Dail.
Navy is only useful form of military we have and actually does something productive, the rest are a complete waste
HSE: **** the unions, don't allow unions in the new company, just like Ryanair
Dole and SW being high keeps a lot of other thing artificially high. 200 quid a week is a lot of money to live on tbh + child payments plus rent allowance + etc etc etc
Prisons and sentencing: social benefit by restoring faith in the justice system and harsher penalties will lead to lower crime rates
PS have not taken 3 cut, pension levy is not a cut and still hugely overpaid and overstaffed in comparison to EU
I said allow one of the banks, we do not need them all.
Faster motorway times reduce travel times and increase productivity (only by a small amount though)

MrDarcy

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Excellent idea for a thread.

We can talk about cutting welfare and PS wages all we want but that’s not going to get us out of the mess we are in.

The key to growth is the private sector which is currently on its knees. One of the biggest problems is lack of liquidity in terms of credit. The banks are not lending money and this is having a devastating knock on effect down the financial food-chain. This is an understandable reaction after the excesses of the Celtic Tiger era however it’s got to the stage where the guarantees required for loans are far too much. If we want to get business going again then we need to ease lending criteria. In my fictional role as leader I’m not sure exactly what I could do about this but I would make it my priority. After all I’m fairly certain the banks will come calling looking for more public money in the future so I would make it a requirement that to get it they will have to relax their lending criteria.

I would not reduce corporation tax. I believe that many of the multi-nationals are teetering on the edge in Ireland at the moment and that raising tax would be the incentive they need to relocate their plants with their high paid jobs elsewhere. This is certainly the case in the pharmaceutical industry. In the long term we need to move away from an economy that is so dependent on this sector but in the short term we need them a hell of a lot more than they need us.

There has to be more of an emphasis on entrepeneurs and start-ups. The fact remains that it has always been difficult to start a company in Ireland, now more so than ever. If we want to break the dependence on foreign multi-nationals then this should be the area in which we need to develop. The current government agencies are inadequate in dealing with this issue. The recent your country your call was a step in the right direction although in reality it was a shambles. We do need to encourage people to think positively and constructively.

I do believe that both public sector wages and welfare need to be cut. We simply cannot afford to borrow money at excessive rates from the bind markets in order to keep paying these bills which are pegged to boom-time private sector wages. I would dissolve the social partnership and negotiate a new agreement with fairer and more realistic wages and benefits. I’d relax the rules regarding termination of full-time staff and I’d end the system whereby wages are linked to time served. This would undoubtably lead to strikes but I think it is in the long term best interests of the country.

I’d link social welfare payments to PRSI in a more direct way. There would be a base-line payment for dole payments (of around E100 per week). If you’ve been contributing to PRSI then you’ll get more money up to a maximum of E200. I’d give more teeth to organizations investigating social welfare fraud. To be honest this whole system is so complex and abused that I’d need to take on a lot of advice on it but ultimately I’d want people to get enough money so that they can cover the essentials without it being enough that they see it as preferable to working. Going to work should always be seen as better than being on welfare.

The health system is a mess. Once again it’s quite complex and has confounded many ministers. We get very little out of the large amount of money spent on it. It seems that a large amount of power is held by people in management within the HSE. This organization needs to be looked at from an external body (preferably one from another country). The recommendations would be implemented including any cuts to salaries of consultants. I wouldn’t be too worried about them leaving the country as it would be difficult for them to earn as much elsewhere anyway.

I’d abolish the Seanad, reduce the numbers in the Dail by a third and reduce TD’s salaries by a third also. I’d then dissolve the current parliament and call immediate elections.

I could write so much more-the above are only broad outlines.

Growing up in the 80s I think a lot of people had an inferiority complex about the country. Italia 90 and then the Eurovision victories helped us out of this (laugh if you want but I believe that this is true). Then the Celtic tiger kicked off based on our location and strong educational background attracting investment from large companies. Suddenly there was a lot of confidence which in the end turned to arrogance and a sense of entitlement. Now that our economy tanked we’re left with those feelings. I don’t want us to go back to the 80’s mentality but I do think that we need to accept that we’re not a wealthy country. The sooner we realise this the better it will be better for us all in the long run.

There are so many people out there who are prepared to take a punt on themselves and start up a business, many lack the knowledge of the pitfalls that are obvious to those that been through the process, for example not getting the sales strategy right, not assuming that anyone who handles cash in your business is at some stage going to try to rob you, same can be assumed about stock control, so you have to have systems in place that manage all these risks.

But there isn't a bank in the country who will give these people a loan, the County Enterprise Boards are run by state employees who don't know the first or last thing about starting up a business, they are worse than useless and only exist for one purpose and that is keeping politically appointed people in handy well paid numbers up and down the country. The County Enterprise Boards should be disbanded immediately I think because they are not assisting any businesses.

What should be done is an Enterprise Credit Union type scheme should be expanded around the country that takes the capitalisation of small businesses out of the hands of the banking system. It should be government backed, and operate on the basis that if you sign up for the scheme, you personally guarantee your loan but you have to lodge 1K in savings/shares to borrow 3K of a loan, just like how the Credit Union operate.

This funding should be provided by the government as investment funding, on which a return should be sought. 3K should be the limit of a start up loan but you also have access to a 1 year start up premises which would be some unused government building or something along those lines.

At the end of the day though there is another problem here, you can start up as many businesses as you like but there isn't really a penny out there to be spent from where I'm standing. So whatever is going on with people not spending money, either they have it and won't spend it or else they don't have it so can't spend it, we need to get to the bottom of what is going on there and get a plan in place to get the economy moving again by getting people back out into the coffee shops, book stores, etc....

mikemac

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Navy is only useful form of military we have and actually does something productive, the rest are a complete waste

Bit harsh.
The Army provides security for cash transits.
They did fantastic work during the floodings and they did us proud overseas.
Do lots of other work too and always available in an emergency.

I think a private company does the search and rescue for Irelands coast these days but Air Corps could have a role here

Cookie_Monster

feelingstressed wrote: »

Bit harsh.
The Army provides security for cash transits.
GRU can cover this
They did fantastic work during the floodings and they did us proud overseas.
they are a defence force and should not be operating overseas. They were only dealing with the flooding due to useless councils and gov. Civil defence is als there for that
Do lots of other work too and always available in an emergency.
navy personnel can do just as easily, same level of training

I think a private company does the search and rescue for Irelands coast these days but Air Corps could have a role here
again, the navy should have aircraft anyway so subsume it into them

.

rumour

carlaboi wrote: »

All public servants have already taken 3 pay cuts, when everyone in the private sector takes 3 pay cuts Id have no problem going again. Pension for Public Sector has been dealt with already. Why do people in the private sector think that public servants should be on less money than they are?

I started a thread for those interested in figures and it explains how much further PS salaries really need to be cut before we are spending what we can afford as a nation. Whether this is done by a thousand cuts or four is rather immaterial as if it doesn't happen soon no one will lend to us because our private sector is so small with little chance of funding the governments repayments.

Unfortunately we will not be at the bottom of this recession until this is addressed. Unless someone can explain how to magically make the money role in. Everything that is proposed here and there are great ideas will take years to materialise. Until then we have no option but to borrow, how do we reduce it?

MrDarcy

rumour wrote: »

I started a thread for those interested in figures and it explains how much further PS salaries really need to be cut before we are spending what we can afford as a nation. Whether this is done by a thousand cuts or four is rather immaterial as if it doesn't happen soon no one will lend to us because our private sector is so small with little chance of funding the governments repayments.

Unfortunately we will not be at the bottom of this recession until this is addressed. Unless someone can explain how to magically make the money role in. Everything that is proposed here and there are great ideas will take years to materialise. Until then we have no option but to borrow, how do we reduce it?

I don't actually think we are going to get out of this one anytime soon. The people running this place have signed up to not cutting in the places where the cuts need to be made, with reference to the Croke Park deal. The only way out of this I can see is for the situation to be allowed to descend into a place where those who are hiding behind powerful and selfish unions, find themselves in a place where the money is not actually there to pay them. I genuinely believe that we need to run out of cash and be staring default in the face before the changes that need to be made, will be made, there is no other way to resolve it, the lunatics are running the asylum.

Count Dooku

feelingstressed wrote: »

Many local towns have a business park run and a county enterprise boards.
Let the vacant units at cheap or even minimal rents to new startups instead of having them sit idle.

Why not to do it for free in NAMA owned business parks?
Especially in depressed areas

rumour

MrDarcy wrote: »

I don't actually think we are going to get out of this one anytime soon. The people running this place have signed up to not cutting in the places where the cuts need to be made, with reference to the Croke Park deal. The only way out of this I can see is for the situation to be allowed to descend into a place where those who are hiding behind powerful and selfish unions, find themselves in a place where the money is not actually there to pay them. I genuinely believe that we need to run out of cash and be staring default in the face before the changes that need to be made, will be made, there is no other way to resolve it, the lunatics are running the asylum.

Sadly and with a degree of shame that as a country we are collectively not capable of sorting out our problems I agree.

The_Honeybadger

We are between a rock and a hard place, if we make too many cuts we will smother the economy, but if we don't then our bond spreads will balloon as our debt spirals out of control (this is assuming somebody will lend to us), barring miraculous economic growth over the next few years then some sort of EU/ IMF intervention, default or debt restructuring is probably inevitable. We have probably passed the point of no return with regards government spending, we cannot get it under control while keeping everybody happy, which the government seems hell bent on doing.

Tora Bora

I suggest a reverse amnesty for social welfare recipients.
Make a one time offer of 2 years social welfare for those on the dole for 2 years or more in one single up front payment. On the flip side they relinquish their rights to any state income support for say 5 years.



How many would jump at the cash and feck off overseas to find work?

How many would stay put and put a slice of the money into a bit of a business .......... help refloat the economy.

Win win for Lenny

Count Dooku

Tora Bora wrote: »

How many would jump at the cash and feck off overseas to find work?

And leave greedy landlords without income? :eek:

jmayo

sparksfly wrote: »

...
Our biggest group of professional beggars, the farmers, get away with not paying one cent in commercial rates while grabbing every grant and subsity thats going. Holland with half our area and 16.5 million people export 10 times more agri / food / engineering produce than we do.
We have a filthy, litter strewn, ragworth infested country while we pay almost 500,000 people to stay in bed.

Boy do have we got a bee in our bonnet about farmers. :rolleyes:
FFS who the fu** do you think litters the countryside ?
Oh yeah it's the farmers who are flytipping in their own locality.
BTW most of the ragworth I see is growing alongside the public roads and that is upto the NRA or country council to clear not the farmer.

hiorta wrote: »

Good on yer, Ren2k7, you're looking forward.
The wake is surely over, the Ireland of yesterday is buried and tomorrow beckons. Great news.

It is one expensive wake and the corpses keep resurfacing costing us yet more to bury.

On ideas:
I believe the capital spending program should be geared towards projects that are long needed, benefical to local communities and have a high labour content.

Thus metros and the like would take a back seat to school, hospital, prison building.

A new state body is formed with limited operating 5 year time frame, that is outside the control and influence of county councils etc with their pathethic project delivery history.
I know I can't believe I am advocating a new body, but there is no way in hell I want existing councils or failed developers involved.

This body only hires dole drawing workers on contract basis for x number of projects.
No ex Fás management or trainers need apply.
If the workers refuse to take up the offer their dole is cut.
Wages are set at levels above minimum wage, but not at rates set by unions e.g sparks.
People are hired within county geographical region to cut down transport requirements and they work within that region.

As part of the terms and conditions unions are not allowed, as we don't want people like sparks demanding pay and conditions similar to St James hospital.
At the end of each project (e.g school building) people's performance is measured.
If the unit that undertook the build failed to deliver project to set down criteria (budget, quality and duration) then workers are released and returned to dole at lower rate.
That way there is an incentive and there is a penalty for laziness and inefficiency.

Project management is hired on contracts from the likes of Spain who get big infrastructure projects in on time and on budget.

Planning for these projects are fast tracked and compulsory purchase orders can be used.

It could even be seen as a form of national service.

I know people will pull holes in this, but it is an idea that gets huge chunk of our young adult males off the live register, we get improved infrastructure that benefits the state and local communities.
We all know schools and hospitals that are in rag order.
We all know new prisons are needed to keep the likes of murray and murphy locked up and away from decent people.
Now how far would the 3 billion poured into INBS have gone on an idea like this ?

Ren2k7

Some good ideas here. I think the elephant in the room is social welfare spending. 20 billion is spent on welfare so whatever your view is on this issue reducing social welfare spending will need to be the number one priority for the gov.

This would be done in a number of ways at the next budget in december.
1. Reduce welfare payments from 196 to 170.
2. Cut those off the dole after a year if they refuse suitable work offers.
3. Make the dole available to those over the age of 21 only. Most people of this age would be living with there parents anyway.
4. Increase the residency time in this country necessary to sign on to 5 years.
5. Abolish the free travel allowance for those under 70.
6. Abolish the household benefits package (free tv licence, 400 free electricity units and free phone line rental) to those under 70.

With regard the third level sector i would implement the proposal to merge all the ITs into the Technical University of Ireland. This would be based on the successful University of California model. The TUI would be the only free fees university. The rest (trinity, dcu, ucd, maynooth, etc) i would let them be independent fee paying colleges with the power to set their own funding levels. Student grants would continue but would only be paid to those going to the TUI. Also grants would be managed by a new Student Support Agency instead of the beyond useless VECs.

mikemac

Ren2k7 wrote: »

With regard the third level sector i would implement the proposal to merge all the ITs into the Technical University of Ireland. This would be based on the successful University of California model. The TUI would be the only free fees university. The rest (trinity, dcu, ucd, maynooth, etc) i would let them be independent fee paying colleges with the power to set their own funding levels. Student grants would continue but would only be paid to those going to the TUI. Also grants would be managed by a new Student Support Agency instead of the beyond useless VECs.

Sounds good.

In the Uk they have the Open University, it realy is an excellent organization.
I think we should have something like this in Ireland.

If you are working full time you may want to upskill but if there are no professional exams in your area or your local IT/college doesn't have night courses, it's limited what you can do.

Just copy the Open University, people pay fees so it's not entirely subsidized.

sparksfly wrote: »

We have a filthy, litter strewn, ragworth infested country while we pay almost 500,000 people to stay in bed.

No self respecting farmer will fail to tackle ragworth.
Fly tipping is a big issue.
Sure drive around the roads at the back of Dublin airport and you'll see it. And it isn't the farmers who are to blame.
With the REPS scheme, farmers are docked payment over lots of things or if everything is not up to standard. Rural Environmental Protection Scheme.

sparksfly

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Many other indirect taxes are low also in comparison, and yes services aren't up to standard but it "chicken and egg" to justify more tax you need better services, to get better services you need more tax"

why should they have been controlled and by whom?
they only have large mortgage through their own fault, no one made them buy a massively overpriced house with a 100% mortgage
someone will still own the house and have to pay it, be in investors, private individuals, banks, etc

You cannot justify more taxes when so little of what is collected now is actually used to improve anything. Chronic inefficiency, corruption and waste needs to be tackled first.

Countries like Finland prevent spiralling house prices by-
Proper bank regulation which among other factors include a minimum deposit to be saved by the housebuyer which increases for each subsequent house bought.
Control of land speculation by levying massive taxes on land sellers and developers who exceed certain profit margins. Part of the planning tendering requirements specify the services / improvment that must also be included in the development, such as libraries, medical centres, schools, transport etc.

Every house was overpriced. Not everyone was savvy in predicting that house prices would collapse. Throw in very givish banks practically shoving low interest money into peoples faces and it was bound to happen.
When wealthy developers got caught, some of the ordinary housebuyers were going to get caught too. Our wonderful government who are elected to lead told us it was not going to end, dont worry.

Somebody, namely the taxpayer, will own the house, correction, all several hundred thousand of them. You are also correct, they will be paid for - through NAMA and we (the taxpayer) and our children will do the paying.