Tax Cheat. Should I report him?

Crossection

I have an acquaintance who hasn’t had a job in five years. Straight out of collage he joined a band and started signing on. He’s still in the band and they play PAYING gigs. He also runs a promotions group. Which organise a club night hear in Cork every week along with running a tent at a couple of music festivals through Munster. He claims he not making any money and he puts it all into the band and productions. But he is, the production group isn’t registered. He doesn’t declare ANY of this income and is still signing on. Should I report him?

Partizan

Crossection wrote: »

I have an acquaintance who hasn’t had a job in five years. Straight out of collage he joined a band and started signing on. He’s still in the band and they play PAYING gigs. He also runs a promotions group. Which organise a club night hear in Cork every week along with running a tent at a couple of music festivals through Munster. He claims he not making any money and he puts it all into the band and productions. But he is, the production group isn’t registered. He doesn’t declare ANY of this income and is still signing on. Should I report him?

Absolutley. It is your duty to book this freeloading, good for nothing loafer. He is costing us all money in lost taxes.

someday2010

No - mind your own business why is it bothering you it nothing to do with you. it its better off that way.

Plus if it became known that it was you who shopped him there a lot of people I think wouls shun you

fungun

lots of people i know have tax issues that are not quite spot on and if they knew anyone reported someone else they would just keep quiet around this person...and there would prob end up being quite a lot of bitching behind their back. So I wouldnt do it.

Or if you do it, do it anonymously.....

frankied1

Hey its not easy for anyone starting up a business and i thought this was supposed to b your friend, or did I get that wrong.

Hey if his band takes off he will be hit with some serious tax in the future for right now I wouldnt want to be the one getting a name for that!

It is annoying though for us tax payers:(

petethebrick

someday2010 wrote: »

No - mind your own business why is it bothering you it nothing to do with you. it its better off that way.

Plus if it became known that it was you who shopped him there a lot of people I think wouls shun you

+1 Get a life, don't be such a knobjockey, you obviously don't have much of a life if snitching on someone for not paying tax on gig earnings is your biggest priority. I reckon the tax office would tell you so as well

jessiejam

how do you know he's not declaring any of it.
He may not be liable for tax but that doesn't mean he's not declaring it.

for instance

If he was making €200 per week for friday and sat gig 10k per year, less espenses of €5k
and paying tax at 20% = €1000
Tax credits of approx €1800 per year then he wouldn't have to pay income tax, except income levy and prsi which wouldn't add up to much

Maybe he is entitled to sign on the days he doesn't work
know all the facts before you jump the gun and loose a friend.

Crossection

jessiejam wrote: »

how do you know he's not declaring any of it.
He may not be liable for tax but that doesn't mean he's not declaring it.

for instance

If he was making €200 per week for friday and sat gig 10k per year, less espenses of €5k
and paying tax at 20% = €1000
Tax credits of approx €1800 per year then he wouldn't have to pay income tax, except income levy and prsi which wouldn't add up to much

Maybe he is entitled to sign on the days he doesn't work
know all the facts before you jump the gun and loose a friend.

He has no problem telling anyone who cares that hes not declaring any of it. I just rang the tax office and shopped him. He deserves it. The leech has NEVER had a job or paid any taxes. So **** him

LegacyUser

I am, with my tax dollar, paying his dole money while he has other income with which to support himself. You definitely should. The culture of sponging off the social and as a result the workers are paying for all the spongers...

Crossection

For anyone else who sees sence

http://www.welfare.ie/en/contactus/Pages/reportfraud.aspx

axel rose

petethebrick wrote: »

+1 Get a life, don't be such a knobjockey, you obviously don't have much of a life if snitching on someone for not paying tax on gig earnings is your biggest priority. I reckon the tax office would tell you so as well

Love the elequence of your words :rolleyes:. The OP like myself is probably paying too much tax to afford the distractions of not caring about people thieving from the system.

Op report this lowlife and hope he is proscuted for his crime. (And if you are not identified for reporting social welfare fraud, I doubt you can be identified for reporting tax evasion.


(why is it seen to be ok to ignore white collar crime but not others?)

LighterGuy

I'm sensing more going on here...

you call him an "acquaintance" - in reality, i think you dont like this man. Or you are jealous of what he has going (you went into detail what he is doing) its one or the other.

What you really are asking from people on here is justification for you reporting him because of your own personal reasons. And not some "moral duty" to do the right thing and report him.



Simple fact is you should not report him.
Its a different story if he did something horrible on you (eye for an eye and all that) ... but fact is, i dont think he has. I think this is you being petty and asking for justification here because you want to report him for your own reasons.

Crossection

LighterGuy wrote: »

I've sensing more going on here...

you call him an "acquaintance" - in reality, i think you dont like this man. Or you are jealous of what he has going (you went into detail what he is doing)

What you really are asking from people on here is justification for you reporting him because you dont like him.



Simple fact is you should not report him.
Its a different story if he did something horrible on you (eye for an eye and all that) ... but fact is, i dont think he has. I think this is you being pety and asking for justification here.

No I dont like this person. They way they have acted the last fw years and there boldness in boasting about it sickens me. Maybe I am jealous. Id love to have my rent paid, have a medical card and €200 a week for grass

Crossection

axel rose wrote: »

Love the elequence of your words :rolleyes:. The OP like myself is probably paying too much tax to afford the distractions of not caring about people thieving from the system.

Op report this lowlife and hope he is proscuted for his crime. (And if you are not identified for reporting social welfare fraud, I doubt you can be identified for reporting tax evasion.


(why is it seen to be ok to ignore white collar crime but not others?)

You can report them anonymously here
http://www.welfare.ie/en/contactus/Pages/reportfraud.aspx

LighterGuy

Crossection wrote: »

No I dont like this person. They way they have acted the last fw years and there boldness in boasting about it sickens me. Maybe I am jealous. Id love to have my rent paid, have a medical card and €200 a week for grass

Hmmm, I know what your saying Op. He sounds like a cocky git for what he is doing. However, he is also a fool.
When your doing something under the table and getting good money for it. the last thing you should do is go around telling people and bragging. He will get caught. He'll rub someone the wrong way and they'll report him. He is a fool.

I guess thats you in this case

I guess what I am saying is... i believe in this life its an eye for an eye. aka, "you fu*k me over, I fu*k you over". But do you really wanna go down this road? ... like im not giving you a moral answer right now (screw morals) ... Do you really wanna report him? .. then he gets fined X amount of thousands and possible even jailtime if he cant pay? .. this is what you have to ask yourself. Would you really not look back and say "geez that was harsh"


As i say, if he did something against you. Report him. But in your own opinion has he warrented it?

Crossection

Ive just reported him and he deserved it. We cant let people like that, take us all for mugs!!

jessiejam

I just hope for your sake you have your facts right.
People who go around bragging about things sometimes don't tell the whole truth
But if you are happy with what you've done
Good for you

LighterGuy

Crossection wrote: »

Ive just reported him and he deserved it. We cant let people like that, take us all for mugs!!

you keep telling yourself thats why you did it.
while in reality you did it because you were jealous what he has, and you dont. As you admited in your previous post.

And dont think im some moral crusader. (as others are in this thread)
I guess juding by your actions here its perfectly fine for a person to destory someone because you dont like them and jealous what they have got.

I believe in an eye for an eye. I think op you just believe in taking an eye.
Well my two cents. doesnt mean anything.

Nevyn

petethebrick banned for 3 months for personal abuse which breach the rules of this forum and the site.

Micky Dolenz

jessiejam wrote: »

I just hope for your sake you have your facts right.

If he is wrong, whats the big deal? It will be investigated and if your man is legit then nothing will come of it. Either way there will be no consequences to the OP unless he tells people he reported it.


Tax dodging dole stealer's sicken me, they are robbing the state and me x 2.

jessiejam

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

If he is wrong, whats the big deal? It will be investigated and if your man is legit then nothing will come of it. Either way there will be no consequences to the OP unless he tells people he reported it.


Tax dodging dole stealer's sicken me, they are robbing the state and me x 2.

Me and all, but these things get around, the op is bound to tell someone else and no doubt it will get back. OP is over on the biz asking about reporting SW fraud also. Seems way too keen to get him shopped to be a genuine do-gooder. I think there is an alterior motive here. Apologies OP if I am wrong.

I wouldn't want to be known as a snitch to all my friends without good reason.

I wonder has the OP discussed it with any of her friends? and what they thought

Zen65

LighterGuy wrote: »

you keep telling yourself thats why you did it.
while in reality you did it because you were jealous what he has, and you dont. As you admited in your previous post.
.
.
.
I believe in an eye for an eye. I think op you just believe in taking an eye.
Well my two cents. doesnt mean anything.

Does it matter what the motivation is?

When a person decides not to drink and drive, does it matter whether they are motivated by love of humanity or a fear of getting caught? Their actions are correct.

Reporting tax cheats is a civic duty. You may dislike the person you are reporting, or you may like them, but their actions are financially hurting others and causing hardship for some people (the people who pay taxes).

I'm always amused by the Irish dislike of "snitches", and it is usually a distorted sense of loyalty. If the OP had told this story about a non-national who was working here on the black market & claiming dole there would surely have been less sympathy for the cheat? Being both Irish and a musician in this case seems to influence how people see his cheating actions, like some sort of a lovable rogue.

Neither does it matter if OP is wrong. The Tax Office will often receive "tip-offs" which are incorrect, so don't worry. It is up to them to act on these tip-offs and prove their case. If the tip-off is wrong, the musician in this story will not be penalised (though he may have to complete some tax audit forms, as we all may have to do from time to time).

It occurs to me though, that with the various tax exemptions that artists receive the musician in this story may well be entitled to a tax-free status, especially if he has had to invest in sound equipment etc. If nothing else the report to Revenue may just mean he has to put his tax affairs in order, and as such, be singing from the same page as the rest of us.


Be at peace,

Z

Incidentally LighterGuy, the end result of the strategy of an eye for an eye, is that it leaves all of us blind!

.

Zen65

someday2010 wrote: »

No - mind your own business why is it bothering you it nothing to do with you. it its better off that way.

Of course it has something to do with OP; honest taxpayers are forced to pay more taxes to compensate for the taxes not paid by tax cheats.

History has shown that the greatest atrocities are perpetrated in an environment where people follow your way of thinking:

Would Hitler have wiped out so many Jews if somebody in the German military had stood up to let their nation know what was going on in the Death Camps?

Would Josef Fritzl have managed to lock his daughter away for 24 years, rape her and abuse her children if somebody in the family had stood up earlier and raised their concerns to the Austrian police?

Would Doctor Harold Shipman have killed so many people if the people who suspected his wrongdoing had spoken out earlier?

Would the Catholic Church still be abusing children if the victims of the past had not stood up to be counted?

Would so many wombs have been wrongly removed from those poor women in Louth.....?

The list goes on.

People with the courage to stand up and be counted are those we should seek to emulate.

But be at peace,

Z

sam34

in my opinion, the op is right to report this person.

if the op's info is correct, they are committing a crime.

why should they get away with that?

dissed doc

If the music he plays are original compositions with artistic merit, etc., then maybe he quite rightly is not paying tax under the Artists Exemption, and the money he receives from the welfare office may not be Jobseekers Allowance, it could be some other allowance.

"Signing on " is pretty ambiguous.

deadpoet

Be honest - if this isnt utter jelousy, then you must have a serious chip on your shoulder against this guy and I can state with 99% certainty that is is not because you have issues regarding his ethics in relation to paying taxes.

Why would you want to rat anyone out like this? Mind your own busniess - and no, its not your busniess. It doesnt even sound like he's in the wrong anyway; as the previous poster said: artists are exempt from taxes under the aformentioned circumstances.

Micky Dolenz

deadpoet wrote: »

Why would you want to rat anyone out like this? Mind your own busniess - and no, its not your busniess. It doesnt even sound like he's in the wrong anyway; as the previous poster said: artists are exempt from taxes under the aformentioned circumstances.

And that there is exactly why our country is in the state it is in. Nobody wants to be seen as a "rat".

Well here's one for you, it is the OP's business just like it is mine and yours. There are people up and down the island that are running small enterprises legitimately and who employ people etc. there is no way they can compete with tax dodgers. I know this well because I run a small business with employees.

Now the guy in question may be legit and no harm will come from any investigation. I would not for one second feel like a "rat" to protect my business and employees from cowboy traders.

sam34

deadpoet wrote: »

Why would you want to rat anyone out like this? Mind your own busniess - and no, its not your busniess. It doesnt even sound like he's in the wrong anyway; as the previous poster said: artists are exempt from taxes under the aformentioned circumstances.

i disagree totally

it appears this guy is committing a crime and therefore i would report him ,just as i would report anyone else i believed to be committing a crime, be it drink driving, burglary, assault etc

tax fraud is a crime.

criminals should be prosecuted and face consequences.

it's one of teh principles of a civilised society.

someday2010

someday2010 wrote: »

No - mind your own business why is it bothering you it nothing to do with you. it its better off that way.

Plus if it became known that it was you who shopped him there a lot of people I think wouls shun you

Well actually it is his business because he is STEALING money from the op. He is also stealing from you and me. Shop him.

LighterGuy

Alot of peoples argument is that its a civic duty to report people. Lets say ok to that one

However, in the op's case he wasnt motivated by doing a civic duty. He was motivated to report him because he was jealous and didnt like the guy. Granted, the guy sounds a cocky fool opening his mouth about what he is getting under the table (total fool)

But think about it, is it right to report someone because of your own issues while masking it as "civic duty"?

Fair enough if you are the type of person to report because its your ideals. And if this guy did something against the op, or was just a jerk TOWARDS the op. Then fair enough report him. But just dislike stemmed from the fact your jealous being the real reason?

The reason why i find this is hypocrisy is because lets face it, for example we've all been in a situation in a shop where the employee forgot to scan an item. we got it for free. then we realise. but we dont bring it back. So for the people above ... look back at the things you got for free, or got when it was illegal. Did your morals come into play then?

... im not justifying that guy. he broke the law. he opened his mouth. Someone will report him. Thats life. But its so crazy the way people are such moral crusaders about this issue. But yet when it comes to something that THEY themselves can gain ... of course thats a different story is it?

temply

Crossection wrote: »

I have an acquaintance who hasn’t had a job in five years. Straight out of collage he joined a band and started signing on. He’s still in the band and they play PAYING gigs. He also runs a promotions group. Which organise a club night hear in Cork every week along with running a tent at a couple of music festivals through Munster. He claims he not making any money and he puts it all into the band and productions. But he is, the production group isn’t registered. He doesn’t declare ANY of this income and is still signing on. Should I report him?

wow

uptight much?!!

LighterGuy

Zen65 wrote: »

Does it matter what the motivation is?

When a person decides not to drink and drive, does it matter whether they are motivated by love of humanity or a fear of getting caught? Their actions are correct..

That is total justification.
What you are saying is that if the end result is "morally good" then the reasons behind doing so dont matter. Ok then lets take that same justification and apply it to other situations...

* I am working in a job. I dont like some guy named Jack. One day he rings in sick says he is dying from the flu. I see him on my lunch break. Nothing wrong with him. I then tell my boss. He gets sacked. My "morals" was that its wrong to the company and he shouldnt use the company. .. in reality. I didnt like the guy and got him sacked.

Does those "Morals" make me a good person in that situation? how about:


* I am in a relationship and there is someone else I like. I'll met them up and go to the pub. Flirt with them. But I wont do anything. As I would be breaking morals. But I continue to meet up with them behind my partners back. Then I wanna be with them, i break up with gf and sleep with the new girl.

I didnt do anything wrong because i didnt cheat (kiss or sex) so no morals broken.
No reality was i was seeing someone behind my girlfriends back and testing the waters before I wanted to dump the gf.

Please dont think I am some moralistic jerk and that im up my own a** lol. Its just where does the line stop and start?

Silverfish

Can we please keep replies on topic and helpful to the OP.

Off-topic and unhelpful posting can earn you a ban from this forum.

Thanks.

Crossection

I thought I better clear thing up a little. My "mate" is in a band yes, and they do play original numbers. But the band is not his primary income. That comes from provide DJs and club night for a couple of bars and clubs in the South West. H has also "ran" a couple of tents at some music festivals. The guy is a theif and he is laughing at us all. He is shopped now and hopefully he will get what he deserves.

temply

Crossection wrote: »

I thought I better clear thing up a little. My "mate" is in a band yes, and they do play original numbers. But the band is not his primary income. That comes from provide DJs and club night for a couple of bars and clubs in the South West. H has also "ran" a couple of tents at some music festivals. The guy is a theif and he is laughing at us all. He is shopped now and hopefully he will get what he deserves.

you shouldn't throw out such bad karma

it has a habit of coming right back at you

gandalf

OP whatever your motives you have done the right thing. If this guy is acting like you say then he is stealing from all of us and tainting those who truely rely on Social Welfare with his actions. What I can't understand is the attitude that prevails from some here that defrauding the state is ok?

axel rose

I don't care what the OPs motivation was in reporting him- Just as long as my taxes don't subsidize her 'mates' greed and fraud.

Well done OP! If more people were willing to do the right thing, our hospitals and schools would have better facilities.

tenchi-fan

look at it this way..
30 hours a week on minimum wage is around €250.
Your buddy claims €200 on the dole (possibly rent allowance, med card and more too) and could get the same again in gigs.

He is not entitled to the dole so he should not receive it. He should also file a tax return on his income.

Moomoo1

Crossection wrote: »

Id love to have my rent paid, have a medical card and €200 a week for grass

then go and fight for your rights. There are plenty of rich people in this country, the government wastes enough money to cover what this guy might have cost them a million times over... if you want a larger slice of the pie then fight the people who have a massive slice, not the people who have just a little more of the pie than yourself.

Moomoo1

Zen65 wrote: »

Reporting tax cheats is a civic duty. You may dislike the person you are reporting, or you may like them, but their actions are financially hurting others and causing hardship for some people (the people who pay taxes).

those people are a drop in the ocean. It's the actions of the rich and the powerful who hurt others and cause hardship, small tax cheats are too minor to register.

Moomoo1

axel rose wrote: »

If more people were willing to do the right thing, our hospitals and schools would have better facilities.

wrong.

we could report all the tax cheats in the world and our facilities wouldn't improve a bit. The government would just find some black hole to flush the money down (and it would no doubt end up with their rich cronies at the end of that).

Moomoo1

Crossection wrote: »

I thought I better clear thing up a little. My "mate" is in a band yes, and they do play original numbers. But the band is not his primary income. That comes from provide DJs and club night for a couple of bars and clubs in the South West. H has also "ran" a couple of tents at some music festivals. The guy is a theif and he is laughing at us all. He is shopped now and hopefully he will get what he deserves.

you shopped a little thief to the big thiefs

I hope you are pleased with yourself.

Bogsnorkler

Good on ya OP!

Cannot believe people are any way against ya.

LighterGuy

+1 MooMoo.
Simple fact is the high ups in government rip off people more than this guy.


The amount of hypocrisy is this thread is sickening.

For every moral crusader on here... What if your friend or relative was making money tax-free. Would you do the same and report them?

Or better yet weather you are employed or not. What if you have the chance to make X amount of euro a night doing whatever field you could do a nixer in... in that situation would you not do it? ... knowing its you. Would your morals come into play then knowing money is going into YOUR pocket?


Lets face facts.... What about the time you perhaps bought some illegal smokes or bought something that was illegal ...... or better yet, bought some of those dodgy satellite boxes a year or two ago..... Where were you morals then people? .... "oh thats NTL im stealing from doesnt hurt me"? ...

I rest my case.

sam34

Moomoo1 wrote: »

those people are a drop in the ocean.

oh thats all right so, is it? their crimes dont matter do they? they should just be let away with it, cause they're not the big guys?

wildlifeman

Op you are some silly person, you just shopped him because you dont like him? would you shop your brother for doing a few nixers here and there? i doubt it.

LegacyUser

wildlifeman wrote: »

Op you are some silly person, you just shopped him because you dont like him? would you shop your brother for doing a few nixers here and there? i doubt it.

The "theoretical brother" shouldnt be doing nixers here and there and not reporting them to revenue. - So he should be shopped too

The attitude in this country stinks when this kind of Cr*p is tolerated or suggested
Its why we have larger issues with the developers etc etc
People not being held to account for their actions, People not being responsible, People letting things slide etc etc - The IRISH CONDITION

OP thanks for reporting him, you did the right thing, I'm glad a freeloader wont be getting any portion of my taxes that were earned honestly and fairly.

Elbi

Crossection wrote: »

I have an acquaintance who hasn’t had a job in five years. Straight out of collage he joined a band and started signing on. He’s still in the band and they play PAYING gigs. He also runs a promotions group. Which organise a club night hear in Cork every week along with running a tent at a couple of music festivals through Munster. He claims he not making any money and he puts it all into the band and productions. But he is, the production group isn’t registered. He doesn’t declare ANY of this income and is still signing on. Should I report him?

ah noooooooooooooooo !!!

I cannot believe OP reported him....

It was none of your business,

Daisy03

Moomoo1 wrote: »

those people are a drop in the ocean. It's the actions of the rich and the powerful who hurt others and cause hardship, small tax cheats are too minor to register.

That's ridiculous - I would be interested in learning how much these "small tax cheats" cost the country every year! It all adds up. Well done OP.

gandalf

Moomoo1 wrote: »

those people are a drop in the ocean. It's the actions of the rich and the powerful who hurt others and cause hardship, small tax cheats are too minor to register.

Depends what you call a drop in the Ocean is? A recent statement from the Secretary General of the Department of Social & Family Affairs has said that €660m a year is lost through social welfare fraud and error. Imho not enough is being done to shore up welfare fraud, especially at a time when so many actually are in genuine need of assistance.

As I said already the OP was absolutely correct in his actions, if others in this country did the same then maybe the attitude of personal responsibility for your actions might permeate through to the "rich and the powerful" as well.

aidan24326

Crossection wrote: »

Ive just reported him and he deserved it. We cant let people like that, take us all for mugs!!

Crossection wrote: »

I thought I better clear thing up a little. My "mate" is in a band yes, and they do play original numbers. But the band is not his primary income. That comes from provide DJs and club night for a couple of bars and clubs in the South West. H has also "ran" a couple of tents at some music festivals. The guy is a theif and he is laughing at us all. He is shopped now and hopefully he will get what he deserves.

You don't even know the guy's whole situation, or any of the exact facts. You shopped him because you're petty and jealous, not through any moral superiority. I bet you were one of those kids who couldn't wait to run to the teacher and tell tales.

Imo it was none of your business to intervene until and unless you knew all of the facts. That said, I agree with those who've said this guy is a monumental idiot for bragging about what money he makes, whether it's true or not.