Requirements for Junior Web Design job?

Essien

Hi,

I'm currently learning web design, between reading here, W3 schools, youtube tutorials and actually doing some work I really feel I've learned a lot since I started and I'm getting more and more confident in my ability. I figure after I do 5/6 sites I will approach companies looking for a junior design position.

At the moment I'm very comfortable using dreamweaver and I have an understanding of CSS & HTML. Is dreamweaver good practice? Should I try to use something like notepad to improve my development knowledge?

My understanding of PHP and Javascript are basic to say the least, at the moment I'd almost always have to copy these word for word from a tutorial.

I'm happy enough with my design ability. I'm pretty useful with photoshop and I recently aquired fireworks whick I intend to put some time into. Banners and things in flash are no problem at the moment but thats as far as it goes, I don' know anything about building flash sites etc.

Thats really the extent of my ability ATM but I do expect to learn a fair but more over the coming months.

My question(s) is basically this...
What will I be expected to know as a minimum to get a job in the industry?
I don't have any qualifications, would a decent portfolio make up for this?
What should I really focus on improving before I do look for a job?

Thanks in advance.

strandroad

Your approach and range of technologies look good. You may want to work on browser compatibility and accessibility specifically, also it would be helpful to look into jQuery/Javascript - at least script integration and tweaking if not scripting itself.

Do try to get as much work as you can to build a portfolio and post links in the website review board here, you can learn a lot from the critique there.

Perhaps you can get on a WPP programme? There seem to be several requests for WPP web people on FAS.ie ATM.

Essien

mhge wrote: »

it would be helpful to look into jQuery/Javascript - at least script integration and tweaking if not scripting itself.

I'm happy enough integrating Javascript into a site but as far as manipulating the code goes my knowledge is very basic, I think it's the next thing I'll really invest time into.

pixelburp

Essien wrote: »

Hi,

I'm currently learning web design, between reading here, W3 schools, youtube tutorials and actually doing some work I really feel I've learned a lot since I started and I'm getting more and more confident in my ability. I figure after I do 5/6 sites I will approach companies looking for a junior design position.

At the moment I'm very comfortable using dreamweaver and I have an understanding of CSS & HTML. Is dreamweaver good practice? Should I try to use something like notepad to improve my development knowledge?

it depends - are you using the WYSIWYG editor for Dreamweaver or are you actually writing the markup yourself? That's the main question you need to ask yourself. So yes, you should being using notepad - ie, some kind of basic text editor to be familiar with both HTML markup and CSS. WYSIWYG editors will end up being a crutch to your development.

It's of particular relevance in the murky world of browser compatibility - once you realise your lovely design doesn't look the same between IE6 and 7 or Firefox, you'll come to understand that fine control over the markup and CSS is a must to put in those hacks, fixes and re-arranging the HTML so IE6 won't whine at you

Essien wrote: »

My understanding of PHP and Javascript are basic to say the least, at the moment I'd almost always have to copy these word for word from a tutorial.

If you want to improve your employability, I would recommend trying to increase your knowledge of at least javaScript (have a look at Jquery to help you here). Copying and pasting's all very well, but understanding how the scripts work, how to fix those that aren't working right, and (eventually) writing your own means an employer has a multi-talented designer not afraid to get his / her hands dirty. Too many so-called web designers are hopeless when it comes to even the most basic of scripting which frankly is inexcusable in today's web environment.

PHP's a different matter altogether because it's an actual high-level language that performs some quite heavy-duty tasks (potentially), rather than something like JavaScript that's used for effects & basic behaviour on-screen.

Essien wrote: »

[...]
My question(s) is basically this...
What will I be expected to know as a minimum to get a job in the industry?
I don't have any qualifications, would a decent portfolio make up for this?
What should I really focus on improving before I do look for a job?

Thanks in advance.

Now that definitely depends on circumstance. Unfortunately what one company calls a "junior designer" is often very different to another. It usually boils down to money if nothing else - what's the most qualified person they think they can hire for the least amount of money, thus "junior web designer"

At the same time, there's still a baseline of experience and knowledge they'd expect, which is pretty much what I spoke of in the above: HTML, CSS, and javaScript. Naturally you'd need to know your way around Photoshop, Flash et al; if you're a junior then an eagerness to learn will also count for much, so you wouldn't be expected to know how to rattle out concepts in Photoshop at the drop of a hat.

Essien

pixelburp wrote: »

it depends - are you using the WYSIWYG editor for Dreamweaver or are you actually writing the markup yourself?

I use the split view but I do pretty much everything in code, really I only use the design view to keep an eye on whats going on and to see how the page changes as a line of code is changed, I find it easier to solve problems and I learn a hell of a lot more doing it that way too.

Essien

FWIW here's a site I posted up here for review ages ago, I recently redesigned it, it's very basic and its the first one I completed.

ron_darrell

Please don't take this as negative - I make these observations only to try and help you develop and improve. The site looks really well, though is quite slow to load and I'd advise against such a dependence on Flash though can understand from a aesthethic point of view why you'd use it. Just looking at the mark up, there seems to be an over-reliance on Dreamweaver for the simple scripts. Perhaps trying to write your own rollovers might help you develop there (or better still expanding your css experience to get the css to deal with the rollovers instead - making the site that bit more adaptable - a lot of browsers disable client side scripting by default). Also it's important to look at moving to external style sheets rather than internal or worse still inline styling (though we've all done both when in a hurry ) Overall, the site shows a great deal of talent and potential.

Regards,
-RD

Placebo

Good site Essien, better than some i've seen here. But above comment hits nail on the head with flash !

Anyway your site suffers from the same problem my site does ;]

when you select something, its green and then when you roll over other items, specially ones right beside it, it looks odd, try it on mine
www.iamjpg.com

i think best way i can think is to change the selected color back to normal state when your rolling over others


Anyway learn to slice things up, this for example, http://www.ardristanlandscaping.com/images/bgtop.png
you could essentially have the gradient in one strip then use css to repeat it on the x axis, then u can place the white fading circle on top, as a png.
but yours is only 2Okb , so probably not worth it.

pixelburp

Essien wrote: »

FWIW here's a site I posted up here for review ages ago, I recently redesigned it, it's very basic and its the first one I completed.

Hey, well it looks good for sure, a good start I suppose if I were to give you direction on where to take your markup/CSS from here, I would suggest reading into how to put your stylesheets (CSS) into an external file, rather than having them "inline" on the page itself. All your divs have CSS attached them, when ideally you'd want it all coming from a CSS file.

What that results is a tidier HTML file, and a tidier CSS file, so edits become easier to control across multiple files / pages. In an ideal world, you shouldn't see any CSS when you select "view source"

Your navigation was done with images & javascript, when realistically you could have just used a HTML <ul> list, styled up with CSS.

Placebo

Your navigation was done with images & javascript, when realistically you could have just used a HTML <ul> list, styled up with CSS.

Is that refereed towards me?

Essien

ron_darrell wrote: »

Just looking at the mark up, there seems to be an over-reliance on Dreamweaver for the simple scripts. Perhaps trying to write your own rollovers might help you develop there

I completely agree, reliance on Dreamwever is something I am concerned about and I wall try to eliminate it over time. Notepad++ is a recent addition to the arsenal and I intend to really put it to use over the next few sites I do.

Re: Attaching CSS to specific divs, its a habit I have from my compulsive need to modify as I go. Just on this, why is it actually that bad of a habit?

Thanks for the positive replies to the site, I'm happy with how it looks at least

strandroad

I think you're developing in the right direction.

On the topic of Notepad++, please don't be overzealous To be able to build sites purely in Notepad + FTP + browsers is a great skill and a great exercise, but I wouldn't give up Dreamweaver (in Code/Split mode) or another advanced editor such as WeBuilder for real work. Its site/project management (with upload sync, testing servers etc) and advanced preview tools are huge timesavers, especially if you have several sites to take care of. Just make sure you don't rely on built-in scripts and snippets. If you want to use a script, bring it in consciously and make sure you know what it's doing there and how.

Another great exercise if to use Firebug plugin to analyse fragments of websites you visit. If you see something you like, Firebug lets you have a peek into it immediately to see how it's done.

Essien wrote: »

Re: Attaching CSS to specific divs, its a habit I have from my compulsive need to modify as I go. Just on this, why is it actually that bad of a habit?

Having all your CSS in one place, external to the markup, makes it easier to update or change styles. CSS is supposed to be reusable throughout the site, so that you are able to apply the same rule to various elements on different pages. If you want to change something, with all your CSS in one place you don't need to manually go through all the divs to make adjustments, you change it once and it populates throughout the site.

pixelburp

Placebo wrote: »

Is that refereed towards me?

Huh? No, I was responding to Essien - his quote was in my reply

pixelburp

Essien wrote: »

I completely agree, reliance on Dreamwever is something I am concerned about and I wall try to eliminate it over time. Notepad++ is a recent addition to the arsenal and I intend to really put it to use over the next few sites I do.

Re: Attaching CSS to specific divs, its a habit I have from my compulsive need to modify as I go. Just on this, why is it actually that bad of a habit?

Thanks for the positive replies to the site, I'm happy with how it looks at least

From a purely logistical point of view (there's plenty of legitimate reasons from a good-web-practise point of view - good design, good accessability, good user-experience), you're making work for yourself; say you have to make a modification to the layout of that site you demo'ed - move the navigation up the page or something - you have to make that change 5 times minimum because your CSS is all inline on the HTML page. If you had an external CSS file, you'd make the change once and boom, you're done.

Modifying as you go is standard enough, it just means you're working on an extra file as you go. Hell, I'm doing it at the moment, working on some styles for a web-form that's in another file.

HTML should just be for - well, HTML markup, CSS stylesheets for design, external javaScript files for behaviour and scripting.

I can guarantee you if you get a web design job and keep doing inline styles, your co-workers will kill you

vitaminG

Hope people don't mind me coming in on this topic but it is something I have also been thinking of lately.

I am presently learning HTML4 and XHTML using books. After this, I plan to learn CSS and then Javascript. I am manually coding using Notepad and so far everything is looking and working as I expect it to. I really enjoy "getting my hands dirty" with coding and solving the challenges it can throw up.

I have some questions that perhaps people here can answer. 1. What are the general requirements for a web design job? 2. Is it better to get a qualification from a college? Some of the prospectus's I have seen don't seem to offer much more than a good training book. 3. What age range do employers look for in this business (I am in my early 40's)?

Sorry if these questions seem stupid but advice from those with experience in this line of work would be appreciated. Need to know if it would be a realistic option or something that I should have as a possible sideline.

p

How old are you, What degrees or work experience do you have?


My main suggestion for you is to work hard on your HTML & CSS so you can take someone else's design and make it into a live webpage. Make sure you know about Web Standards, validating code, and some best practice SEO stuff. If you can do that (you're currently not good enough at it, just yet) then you'll easily get a job as a junior designer/front-end developer and then you can work up from there.

Also, do personal projects, project for friends etc.. to build up a portfolio of sites.

Right now though, you shouldn't be happy with your coding or your design. You've done well teaching yourself, but neither are of a professional standard. Work on your HTML/CSS and cross browser compatibility. Rely less on Dreamweaver's inbuilt effects and just use it as a code editor and you'll be very well placed to get your foot in the door of a few companies.

All the best

Essien

p wrote: »

How old are you,
25
What degrees or work experience do you have?
None & None. My only experience will be the few jobs I do in the next few months and the few little bits I've done so far


My main suggestion for you is to work hard on your HTML & CSS so you can take someone else's design and make it into a live webpage. Make sure you know about Web Standards, validating code, and some best practice SEO stuff. If you can do that (you're currently not good enough at it, just yet) then you'll easily get a job as a junior designer/front-end developer and then you can work up from there.
I'm currently oblivious to proper web standards but I understand the importance and I just started looking into it on W3 schools.
I've been reading up on SEO too, again it's something I'm a little green on at the moment, I'm learning though.

Also, do personal projects, project for friends etc.. to build up a portfolio of sites.
I have HEAPS to do, the only problem is getting the time to do them

Right now though, you shouldn't be happy with your coding or your design. You've done well teaching yourself, but neither are of a professional standard.
I'm only happy considering the fact I just picked it up myself, I'm aware I have a loooonnng way to go.

Work on your HTML/CSS and cross browser compatibility. Rely less on Dreamweaver's inbuilt effects and just use it as a code editor and you'll be very well placed to get your foot in the door of a few companies.

All the best

Thanks for you're input

Noodleworm

Hey, I'm in a sort of similar position, except I probably won't be looking for work for another 2 years when I finish college (or 3 is I do a masters after)I'm 19, I'm studying for a Bachelor of Science in Multimedia now. In the mean time I want to build up a portfolio.

My first website was done when I was about 15, using notepad++..
I used dreamweaver mainly now, not really design view because I find its not really reliable. I have a two monitor set up on my desktop so I have dreamweaver on one and two or more monitors I see my changes.

I'm not really sure what to focus on too improve. I'm fairly confident in my HTML and CSS but I guess I should probably be looking at PHP, MySQL and Javascript.

Trojan

My considerations in picking a (anylevel|Junior) Web Designer would be 85% graphic design talent, 10% coding ability, 5% everything else.

Developer would be very different.

Essien

I was going to post this in the review forum, but thought I would bump up this instead as I kind of want advice on where to go next.

Anyway, I finished my own little site about a week ago, here it is....

http://www.eddiegormandesign.com/

....and I would like peoples opinions (and I got some good input from users in this thread last time round) as I am currently looking to get a job as a junior designer.

Had my first interview earlier in the week so fingers are still crossed

p

In short:

- You shouldn't be very confident in your design skills, you're not a very good designer yet. Dont confuse design with being able to use Photoshop. If you want to be a designer, then learn more about illustration, contrast, colour theory, photography and usability principles.
- You have a good foundation to start being a front-end developer, someone who takes designs and makes them into HTML/CSS and Javascript. Keep working on that and make sure all your code validates.

Consider a direction to pick. This diagram might help you understand how roles related to each other at a high level. Pick a core section and maybe a little bit either side of that.

Essien

Thanks for the input p, and fwiw I'm not happy with my design skills yet, though I plan on educating myself properly in the near future.

I wouldn't mind being a front-end developer either, if I can get my foot in the door of a company then I'm happy to go in which ever direction better suits me.

Placebo

Your navigation menu and footer is letting you down
Have a look here: http://vandelaydesign.com/blog/galleries/navigation-menus/

p

Essien wrote: »

I wouldn't mind being a front-end developer either, if I can get my foot in the door of a company then I'm happy to go in which ever direction better suits me.

Focus on that area now, as there's always work for people who are good at that stuff. You can then see if you want to keep doing that, more move towards design or dev instead.

S.M.B.

Speaking of getting yourself to a 'hire-able' standard, how buyout is the work market for front end/UI developers at the moment.

I'm working away in London at the the moment but would be looking to return to Ireland within the next 18 months. How's the industry as a whole?

p

S.M.B. wrote: »

Speaking of getting yourself to a 'hire-able' standard, how buyout is the work market for front end/UI developers at the moment.

There's man goody good front-end devs in Ireland. In most companies designers or devs do it.

Not many companies explicitly hire for it, but the gap is there. So, I wouldn't expect to see many job postings for them, but pretty sure you could get work. I'd try get the right job before you move home rather than after though.

S.M.B.

Yeah, think it would be a bit risky to just up and leave London in the hope that I'll easily find work at home.

Thanks anyway, it's still a while down the road and I'll be sure to do a lot more research as I approach a decision.

Nice to know that it's not an impossible dream anyway.

Placebo

S.M.B , not to go too offtopic here but hows business in London?
I'm making a blind move next month

S.M.B.

I think it's pretty healthy here at the moment. I moved over 18 months ago and did a year of freelancing/short contract work to get my foot in the door. Went looking for something more permanent 6 months ago and got plenty of offers straight away.

But I guess it all depends on what you're looking for and where you are in terms of seniority. I'm still getting plenty of emails from recruiters about decent looking positions.

p

S.M.B. wrote: »

Yeah, think it would be a bit risky to just up and leave London in the hope that I'll easily find work at home.

Thanks anyway, it's still a while down the road and I'll be sure to do a lot more research as I approach a decision.

yea, I'd say just start put feelers out a few months before you plan to move. Maybe pop along to Build or similar to network a bit. Shouldn't be too hard.

Trojan

In terms of specialisations, if I was 10 years younger, had design skills, I'd be head first into user experience design "UXD".

OctavarIan

Trojan wrote: »

In terms of specialisations, if I was 10 years younger, had design skills, I'd be head first into user experience design "UXD".

I'm in my early 20s, just finished first year in college (Multimedia), have print design skills and have been learning web design for the past 9 months or so. I've a fairly ok grasp of HTML & CSS and I'm comfortable creating layouts on a grid, visually balanced and 'technically' sound.

"UXD" as you put it interests me but I've never really understood how to go about forging a career in it. The conceptual elements of design seem undervalued by businesses as it is without this relatively new field coming along as well. Any job postings I see always tend to lump it in with frontend stuff (and sometimes plus dev stuff, and print, sigh). It seems like something an experienced web designer would drop out of an agency job to start doing freelance. What would you be doing if you were 10 years younger? Are there any books you could recommend?

In terms of p's diagram earlier in the thread I'm definitely only interested in the top three layers. I don't know any scripting languages yet though.

p

Trojan wrote: »

In terms of specialisations, if I was 10 years younger, had design skills, I'd be head first into user experience design "UXD".

That's what I'm doing now, though my title is Interaction Designer, and I wouldn't advise that over traditional design. It's a very different role, with far more analysis and strategy than visual design. I spent most of last week in Excel for example, so those who get into design for the creative part, rather than the UI design part, wouldn't necessarily be a good fit or enjoy it.


Regarding getting into UX, most people get into it via web design, and it's only needed as a role in itself in larger companies. I'd say at the start of your career, just learn about good usability and UI design, and then if you're more interested in that, than the visual, then you can push in that direction.

Trojan

p wrote: »

That's what I'm doing now, though my title is Interaction Designer, and I wouldn't advise that over traditional design. It's a very different role, with far more analysis and strategy than visual design. I spent most of last week in Excel for example, so those who get into design for the creative part, rather than the UI design part, wouldn't necessarily be a good fit or enjoy it.

I think that's why I like it