08Renault Scenic - engine failure & warranty issue

Milliehollie

Just wondering if this has happened to anyone else or if anyone can offer any advise. 2 yr old Renault Scenic, well looked after and without warning the engine blew up (catastropic engine failure). Have been given no explanation as to why this happened and Renault are refusing to honour 3 year warranty as car has not been serviced. The reason why car has not been serviced is because mileage is below 1st service interval and we were unaware that car had to be serviced to maintain warranty.

We are looking at a repair bill in excess of €7,000 which we will not be able to pay.

Surely an engine of a 2 year old car with very low mileage should not just blow up and surely we cannot just accept this without any explanation to us. We have been told that there was plenty of oil in the engine. We believe that there must have been an underlying problem with the engine in the first place.

Any advise at all would be very much appreciated

R.O.R

Milliehollie wrote: »

Just wondering if this has happened to anyone else or if anyone can offer any advise. 2 yr old Renault Scenic, well looked after and without warning the engine blew up (catastropic engine failure). Have been given no explanation as to why this happened and Renault are refusing to honour 3 year warranty as car has not been serviced. The reason why car has not been serviced is because mileage is below 1st service interval and we were unaware that car had to be serviced to maintain warranty.

We are looking at a repair bill in excess of €7,000 which we will not be able to pay.

Surely an engine of a 2 year old car with very low mileage should not just blow up and surely we cannot just accept this without any explanation to us. We have been told that there was plenty of oil in the engine. We believe that there must have been an underlying problem with the engine in the first place.

Any advise at all would be very much appreciated

What time interval did the service schedule state? There is usually a time or mileage maximum for the service interval.

Oil starvation is my guess - I take it you regulaly checked the oil level?

Henry Ford III

Servicing is usually xyz miles or yearly, whichever comes first. Oil has a useful life of 12 months normally. After that it's level of protection will decline.

It appears you failed to adhere to the recommended service intervals, which has invalidated the warranty.

sentient_6

Sore dose so by the looks of it. Have you priced the repairs elsewhere?

Drummerboy08

Milliehollie wrote: »

Just wondering if this has happened to anyone else or if anyone can offer any advise. 2 yr old Renault Scenic, well looked after and without warning the engine blew up (catastropic engine failure). Have been given no explanation as to why this happened and Renault are refusing to honour 3 year warranty as car has not been serviced. The reason why car has not been serviced is because mileage is below 1st service interval and we were unaware that car had to be serviced to maintain warranty.

We are looking at a repair bill in excess of €7,000 which we will not be able to pay.

Surely an engine of a 2 year old car with very low mileage should not just blow up and surely we cannot just accept this without any explanation to us. We have been told that there was plenty of oil in the engine. We believe that there must have been an underlying problem with the engine in the first place.

Any advise at all would be very much appreciated

This is the problem.

If its a 1.5DCi 106bhp, it needs to be serviced every 30,000km or 12 months, whichever comes first. As it hasnt been serviced to Renault's standard, they are perfectly entitled to refuse a warranty claim.

If you really want to go down the road of chasing Renault, I suggest you hire an independent ascessor to view and inspect the car. If he sides with you then you have some kind of leg to stand on, if he sides with Renault then your on your own.

Ali Babba

You'll have a job to find a good second hand engine too, by all accounts this is a regular problem with Renault 1.5 DCi engines, I honestly wonder why people still buy them, if it's not an engine problem it's a gearbox or an electrical problem.

mickdw

To be fair, if you went into the dealer & told them that you had not changed the oil since new, you left then with little choice but to refuse warranty cover.
Given that this appears to be common & so there is a weakness in the engines, I wouldnt have been too shy in telling them it was serviced by iindependant garage.

BrianD3

mickdw wrote: »

Given that this appears to be common & so there is a weakness in the engines

Where did you hear that it was common? Hopefully not based on junkyard's Ali Babba's post

Poly

BrianD3 wrote: »

Where did you hear that it was common? Hopefully not based on junkyard's Ali Babba's post

Ali Babba is right, Renaults are sh1teboxes. I was stuck with two of the poxy yokes

johnos1984

BrianD3 wrote: »

Where did you hear that it was common? Hopefully not based on junkyard's Ali Babba's post

Turbo failure is a common issue with this engine (I am assuming it is the diesel)

Diesel or petrol engine OP ?

BrianD3

johnos1984 wrote: »

Turbo failure is a common issue with this engine

No more so than with any other modern turbo diesel.

And in any case, the damage that the OP describes is a lot more than a turbo failure.

johnos1984

BrianD3 wrote: »

No more so than with any other modern turbo diesel.

And in any case, the damage that the OP describes is a lot more than a turbo failure.

Yes modern diesels are more troublesome but certain engines have a reputation for it (2002-2003 BMW 320D/Rover 75, Renault DCI units (also in Nissans)

OP exactly what happened to the engine?

I've heard of the turbo's blowing and the engine being unable to shut down until it burns off all the oil and seizes. (it effectively revs itself to death)

Was it something like that or did it just stop?

johnos1984

johnos1984 wrote: »

2002-2003 BMW 320D/Rover 75

The 75s I thought have a different turbo to the 320s and aren't known at all for turbo failure ?

Merch

Milliehollie wrote: »

Just wondering if this has happened to anyone else or if anyone can offer any advise. 2 yr old Renault Scenic, well looked after and without warning the engine blew up (catastropic engine failure). Have been given no explanation as to why this happened and Renault are refusing to honour 3 year warranty as car has not been serviced. The reason why car has not been serviced is because mileage is below 1st service interval and we were unaware that car had to be serviced to maintain warranty.

We are looking at a repair bill in excess of €7,000 which we will not be able to pay.

Surely an engine of a 2 year old car with very low mileage should not just blow up and surely we cannot just accept this without any explanation to us. We have been told that there was plenty of oil in the engine. We believe that there must have been an underlying problem with the engine in the first place.

Any advise at all would be very much appreciated

Thats an expensive way to learn that services are required mileage or not even as a simple precaution, Im sure a booklet will say x miles/kms or 12/24 months, perhaps a better description of exactly what happened might help, there is probably something in the manual about requirements to maintain the warranty?? bit late now I know but be interested to hear how it was driven, what was happening at the time it went bang? and when it was last checked for fluid levels? coolant, oil etc

johnos1984

RoverJames wrote: »

The 75s I thought have a different turbo to the 320s and aren't known at all for turbo failure ?

I thought it was the same turbo but reliability was better due to it being detuned.

I've not heard as many reports of turbo failure in the 75............unfortunately the same can't be said for its chocolate clutch

Milliehollie

To answer some of these questions.

Yes we didn't get it serviced after 12months but car is only used lightly and mileage is well below its 1st service limit. We actually never got the warranty/service booklet that should have come with the car to explain this to us.

Its a 1.6petrol engine not diesel. The renault mechanic said the piston head exploded & damaged all the cylinders. After that, he can offer no other other explanation.

Oil levels were checked regularly while putting water in. Always plenty of oil.

If it comes to it surely we have a case for the Sale of Goods Act 1980 as this engine was unfit for its purpose?

Merch

Milliehollie wrote: »

To answer some of these questions.

Yes we didn't get it serviced after 12months but car is only used lightly and mileage is well below its 1st service limit. We actually never got the warranty/service booklet that should have come with the car to explain this to us.

Its a 1.6petrol engine not diesel. The renault mechanic said the piston head exploded & damaged all the cylinders. After that, he can offer no other other explanation.

Oil levels were checked regularly while putting water in. Always plenty of oil.

If it comes to it surely we have a case for the Sale of Goods Act 1980 as this engine was unfit for its purpose?

So it wasnt serviced by anyone? ok why didnt you get a booklet? this was a new car? not just new to you?
What do you mean oil was checked regularily? while putting the water in?? what water and where? do you mean coolant? as coolant can have differant cooling properties to just water, unless you mean washer fluid?
Too much oil can be a bad thing too, Are you sure oil/coolant/water was put in right place? I mean if you didnt have a manual and no offense you dont sound too tech savy.
What happened when it went bang, was there anything leading up to the bang, in the days before, temp warning, roughness running, smoke?

Anan1

Milliehollie wrote: »

To answer some of these questions.

Yes we didn't get it serviced after 12months but car is only used lightly and mileage is well below its 1st service limit. We actually never got the warranty/service booklet that should have come with the car to explain this to us.

Its a 1.6petrol engine not diesel. The renault mechanic said the piston head exploded & damaged all the cylinders. After that, he can offer no other other explanation.

Oil levels were checked regularly while putting water in. Always plenty of oil.

If it comes to it surely we have a case for the Sale of Goods Act 1980 as this engine was unfit for its purpose?

I do feel for you, but driving a car for two years without ever bothering to ascertain the service intervals is madness. I can't see any court siding with you, as you didn't maintain the car. When you say 'putting water in', do you mean coolant or washer fluid?

Guy:Incognito

Milliehollie wrote: »

If it comes to it surely we have a case for the Sale of Goods Act 1980 as this engine was unfit for its purpose?

There is an onus of care on owners with cars (just like a lot of other goods, such as drills and the like which are supposed to be oiled but rarely do). service intervals have to be adhered to or bad things can happen. All cars have service intervals given in mileage and time, to cover low mileage users.

Anan1

Anan1 wrote: »

I do feel for you, but driving a car for two years without ever bothering to ascertain the service intervals is madness. I can't see any court siding with you, as you didn't maintain the car. When you say 'putting water in', do you mean coolant or washer fluid?

Washer fluid I would reckon, in fairness to the OP whatever happened the engine was not due to the oil not being changed, all of us on here, the OP and the Renault garage chaps are well aware of that. P1ss poor form they won't stand over it in my opinion.

johnos1984

johnos1984 wrote: »

I thought it was the same turbo but reliability was better due to it being detuned.

I've not heard as many reports of turbo failure in the 75............unfortunately the same can't be said for its chocolate clutch

I'm 94.78% certain the turbo is different on the 75

johnos1984

RoverJames wrote: »

P1ss poor form they won't stand over it in my opinion.

Agreed but what else do you expect.

The best has always been Toyota. I've never been able to fault their service and warranties

johnos1984

RoverJames wrote: »

I'm 94.78% certain the turbo is different on the 75

I'll not argue on this occasion as I'm not confident enough of my knowledge

Anan1

RoverJames wrote: »

Washer fluid I would reckon, in fairness to the OP whatever happened the engine was not due to the oil not being changed, all of us on here, the OP and the Renault garage chaps are well aware of that. P1ss poor form they won't stand over it in my opinion.

If it's washer fluid then that's grand, but if it's coolant...

I agree that any new car should be able to take two years without servicing, providing all fluid levels are maintained. Bottom line, though, is that the owner gave Renault a get out of jail card. There's also the fact that whatever went wrong might have been brewing for a while, and Renault were denied the opportunity to inspect the car at service.

Anan1

johnos1984 wrote: »

Agreed but what else do you expect.

The best has always been Toyota. I've never been able to fault their service and warranties

Bring a two year old car that's never been serviced back to Toyota with a blown engine and you'd probably get the same response, TBH.

Guy:Incognito

Anan1 wrote: »

If it's washer fluid then that's grand, but if it's coolant...

I agree that any new car should be able to take two years without servicing, providing all fluid levels are maintained. Bottom line, though, is that the owner gave Renault a get out of jail card. There's also the fact that whatever went wrong might have been brewing for a while, and Renault were denied the opportunity to inspect the car at service.

We're also well in to August, the car is potentially 2 years and 8 months old (OP hasnt said month of reg). With the oil a coupel of months older than that again.

sentient_6

Kinda funny there's a seperate thread at the moment about a cars first service.

johnos1984

Anan1 wrote: »

Bring a two year old car that's never been serviced back to Toyota with a blown engine and you'd probably get the same response, TBH.

The covered the engines on cars which burned oil even if they were 5 years old

I think it was the D4D Avensis models

Although I fully agree the car should of been serviced sooner.

Short journeys are hard on an engine.

Saab Ed

Ali Babba wrote: »

You'll have a job to find a good second hand engine too, by all accounts this is a regular problem with Renault 1.5 DCi engines, I honestly wonder why people still buy them, if it's not an engine problem it's a gearbox or an electrical problem.

Total and utter horsesh!te. Couldn't be further from the truth. Where did you hear this from. Was it one of your mates down the pub who told you this , if so he most likely didn't sevice his car properly either. That engine is not known for giving up. Engines just dont go bang ( unless its a K-Series rover or a 2.5 Nissan Navara )

All turbos are likely to go if the car is not serviced at its proper service interval. If the turbo goes bust this leads to oil starvation which in the end means your engine goes bang.

Im really sorry to hear about your trouble OP but there's more to it than a faulty engine. as i said earlier engines dont just blow up , there's a reason they blow up.

Now if its not the big spanner flashing on the dashboard or the written warning saying " Service due " then maybe a lack of power from the engine , the trail of blue and grey smoke or the funny whirling noise might just have givin the game away before the sudden bang.

Anan1

johnos1984 wrote: »

The covered the engines on cars which burned oil even if they were 5 years old

I think it was the D4D Avensis models

That was due to an acknowledged manufacturing fault with the engine, was it not?

Guy:Incognito

Anan1 wrote: »

That was due to an acknowledged manufacturing fault with the engine, was it not?

Toyotas dont have faults do they

johnos1984

Anan1 wrote: »

That was due to an acknowledged manufacturing fault with the engine, was it not?

Aye I suppose it was but still some engines had covered large miles and were already well out of warranty.

My respect for Toyota service comes down to a family incident with the worlds only unreliable Carina E

BrianD3

There is no inherent problem with the mechanical parts of that 1.6 petrol engine, it is a reliable and well proven engine. It sounds like you were unlucky. The lack of servicing probably didn't cause it but as already stated you have given Renault a valid excuse not to payout. If you go down the route of the Sale of Goods Act then it will be messy and the legal advice needed is probably beyond the scope of this forum.

Just a thought, have you driven through any floods lately? That can cause major engine damage.

johnos1984

Stekelly wrote: »

Toyotas dont have faults do they

My current Corolla has a nasty habit of burning oil..........VERY COMMON

Guy:Incognito

johnos1984 wrote: »

My current Corolla has a nasty habit of burning oil..........VERY COMMON

There was a slight hint of sarcasm in my post in fairness. A guy I worked with has just had a new clutch put im an 08 Landcruiser under warranty. It's had various other relativly major bits and pieces done since he bought it (new) . He got it through his brother who was a Renault mechanic and is now ou of his own (garage closed) . The Scenic his missus is driving has been great by all accounts.

johnos1984

Stekelly wrote: »

There was a slight hint of sarcasm in my post in fairness.

Sorry its the time of the night

Saab Ed

Saab Ed wrote: »

Engines just dont go bang ( unless its a K-Series rover or a 2.5 Nissan Navara

I know f all about Navaras but K series go bang when f**ktard owners drive the on low coolant. (no doubt you know that but many readers won't )

johnos1984

RoverJames wrote: »

I know f all about Navaras but K series go bang when f**ktard owners drive the on low coolant. (no doubt you know that but many readers won't )

There is something to be said for lifting a bonnet once a week to check levels.

K-series are fine if you do that and spot the leaks.

Its saved my Corolla twice now when the oil level suddenly drops

Nonoperational

I'm sorry it's horrible to hear but a car has to be serviced yearly and if it's not your asking for trouble. They are well within their rights to refuse warranty cover even though an "exploding piston" is probably nothing to do with servicing but you gave them a great get out clause. Sorry.

madmac187

If you have comprehensive insurance it should cover it and keep mum about the service part and you should be able to sort it.

Saab Ed

RoverJames wrote: »

I know f all about Navaras but K series go bang when f**ktard owners drive the on low coolant. (no doubt you know that but many readers won't )

Well unless they check their coolant every half hour they really dont have a hope. A K series will blow a gasket quicker than a 50 something menopausal women chasing 3 kids round a shopping centre

Anan1

madmac187 wrote: »

If you have comprehensive insurance it should cover it and keep mum about the service part and you should be able to sort it.

Insurance is against accidents, not mechanical failures.

Guy:Incognito

Anan1 wrote: »

Insurance is against accidents, not mechanical failures.

Maybe the OP could convince the insurance company they parked on a raising bollard

Saab Ed

Saab Ed wrote: »

Well unless they check their coolant every half hour they really dont have a hope. A K series will blow a gasket quicker than a 50 something menopausal women chasing 3 kids round a shopping centre

Back on topic, renault are sh!t

Saab Ed

RoverJames wrote: »

Back on topic, renault are sh!t

...and still making cars :D

johnos1984

Saab Ed wrote: »

...and still making cars :D

Which is shocking!

I bet there will be a lot of very unhappy owners who got 10 reg Méganes 'cheap' in 3 years time. They will be worth nothing.

I'm still not convinced they have the durability to last.

OP have you tried to negotiate a good will gesture from the dealer or Renault?

madmac187

Anan1 wrote: »

Insurance is against accidents, not mechanical failures.

If the vehicles engine popped and if it went on fire as a result, even a little, the damage would be covered.

I work in insurance.

Guy:Incognito

madmac187 wrote: »

If the vehicles engine popped and if it went on fire as a result, even a little, the damage would be covered.

I work in insurance.

So all the OP has to do is torch the car now?

madmac187

Stekelly wrote: »

So all the OP has to do is torch the car now?

Funny but no, If he has comprehensive insurance, he can ring the company and make a claim as fire damage I think (Not torch the car, thats fraud of course)

Merch

Im still interested to hear from the OP when they're back on what happened in the few days/the week before it went bang
not servicing wont help, but if there was no warning of something happening like rough running, smoke and fluid levels were truely and accurately checked then perhaps it was a catastrophic failure of a component, having said that, if they weren't aware servicing was a requirement perhaps they didnt interpret any signals like vibrations, knocking noises, smoke or even warning lights correctly either? they havent left themselves much of a leg to stand on as it seems they told the garage no-one serviced this car, OP?

Im curious as to what level of servicing is deemed necessary to not invalidate a warranty? independant garage? how about myself, with years of non car related maintenance experience, how will that hold up?