The death of Doctor David Kelly

sxt

I was just reading the article today about weapons expert ,Dr. Kelly, who created a massive political storm by being publicly identified as the main person who questioned the legality of the war in Iraq in 2003, he died that year as well. Do you think it is more likely that he committed suicide or that he was murdered?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19930

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kelly_(weapons_expert)

politicsdude

i think he committed suicide he had taken loads of pills and stuff before hand

mike65

Murdercide

FearDark

I heard he murdered himself.

mkahnisbent

Murdered

ItsAWindUp

**** know, who cares to be honest?

Pherekydes

Both. He murdered himself.

sxt

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

**** know, who cares to be honest?

His family, The British Government, and the British public at large I would imagine

mikom

"Cos when they met..... it was Muuurder"

bonerm

He commited suicide when when he decided not to row in with the Bush/B.liar war of terror campaign.

My name is URL

I reckon he did kill himself.. for fear of what might have otherwise happened

up for anything

Why would a weapons expert kill himself using tablets and fecking pruning knife. It would be a lot surer and less drawn out and painful to use something with real fire power. I remember when it happened and I always thought that a couple of someones stood over him with guns and 'encouraged' him to do it that way to make it look like a real suicide.

Star Bingo

if suicide, cos he was embarrassed to be british in the aftermath of the illegal attack

if murder, cos the brits were embarrassed that he pointed out it was an illegal attack. whilst subservient to the US.. thats fairly embarrassing is it not? i know i'd kill meself..

Terry

I'm not one for conspiracy crap, but going by the evidence presented I do believe he was murdered. It wouldn't be the first time this has happened, but it doesn't happen as often as conspiracy theorists would have you believe.

Probably suicide, but he did correctly point out that there was no supergun, I still believe it was for the control of the middle eastern oil supply.
Invade one country, the others would be less likely to deny you supply in the future.

aphex™

Lord Hutton (i think) sealed the records on the case for 70 years.

Alarm bells are going off everywhere as I speak..

sxt

aphex™ wrote: »

Lord Hutton (i think) sealed the records on the case for 70 years.

Alarm bells are going off everywhere as I speak..

Exactly ,i'm sure labour felt they would have been in government for decades and it didn't matter.

I don't think that their plan to attempt and put a gag on the results of his death, until everyone else is dead in 70 years time, which lord hutton did out of , paraphrasing here,"compassion for the family concerned", can happen in this day in age...with the Internet, 24 hour news and freedom of information acts etc....maybe 20 years ago, that would have been a good idea and no one would have batted an eyelid.

But with modern information technology and....I mean, if you have the the biggest news station in the U.K?, Sky news, with this report on august 13th 2010 putting forward a report like this...


http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/video/Dr-David-Kelly-Death-New-Calls-For-Full-Inquest/Video/201008215682670?lpos=Politics_2&lid=VIDEO_024185_New+Call+For+Dr+Kelly+Inquest&videoCategory=Politics

The Highwayman

MI5/MI6 murder

starbelgrade

The Highwayman wrote: »

MI5/MI6 murder

Was he killed by a Highwayman when he was on the motorway?

teddy_303

Murder. This man of integraty had a gag reflex that meant he could not swallow the pills found in his system, coupled with the data which he may have divulged in the shameful witch hunt that ensued previous revelations? Call MI5 at once......

TPD

FearDark wrote: »

I heard he murdered himself.

I heard someone suicided him.

mink_man

thread is in need of a funny reply.

starbelgrade

mink_man wrote: »

thread is in need of a funny reply.

It'd be a funnier thread if it was "The Death of Matthew Kelly".

sxt

sxt wrote: »

His family, The British Government, and the British public at large I would imagine

..and the Iraqi people especially, and the rest of the world hopefully

mink_man

this thread died as quick as david kelly.

mink_man

sxt wrote: »

..and the Iraqi people especially, and the rest of the world hopefully

it's funny how there wasn't a reply in the thread for about an hour and then there's two in the same minute.

sligopark

Not as funny if it had been closed by 'Moderater Tony Blair'

sxt

It will be very interesting to see how this plays out if it does at all...all to do with public pressure or not whatever the case may be...If Labour were in governement still...


The Independant doctors argued that a severed ulnar artery, the wound found to Dr Kelly's wrist," was unlikely to be life-threatening unless an individual had a blood-clotting deficiency"

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/dr-david-kelly-death-experts-question-government-verdict-14909770.html


Dominic Grieves is the Attorney General of England and Wales

A spokesman for Grieve said: "He remains concerned about this matter and is considering how to take it forward with his ministerial colleagues."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/7945390/Inquest-into-Dr-David-Kellys-death-could-be-re-opened-government-suggest.html




The doctors say that, based on Dr Kelly’s weight and size, he would have had to lose 2,700ml of blood to threaten his life.

Their report, which has been submitted to Attorney General Dominic Grieve, says: ‘It was impossible for 2,700ml of blood to have been lost through this small artery. ‘Indeed, to lose 500ml through it would have been unlikely.’
Last week a separate group of nine doctors wrote an open letter to the Government saying they did not believe Dr Kelly died from loss of blood. Mr Grieve says he remains ‘ concerned’ by the case and is reviewing the papers.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1303356/Dr-David-Kelly-Just-believes-suicide.html

marcsignal

Terry wrote: »

I'm not one for conspiracy crap.........

slippery slope terry.... is this a precursor to an awkward question ?

wouldn't your life be so much better, if you, and everyone you knew, just drank coca cola ??;)

Terry wrote: »

but going by the evidence presented I do believe he was murdered....

of course he was murdered, but there's nothing to see here for the likes of you and me, just get back to your dvd.

RATM

up for anything wrote: »

Why would a weapons expert kill himself using tablets and fecking pruning knife. It would be a lot surer and less drawn out and painful to use something with real fire power. I remember when it happened and I always thought that a couple of someones stood over him with guns and 'encouraged' him to do it that way to make it look like a real suicide.

I call shennagians on his supposed suicide. Now I'm no weapons expert but I reckon if he was any type of decent weapons expert he would have gotten it over as quickly as possible and used a nuclear weapon on himself.

sxt

It has gone from closer to 90% to nearer to 70% since I mentioned the Daily Mirror Newspaper

SuperInfinity

It's an impossible question. Anyone voting here is just guessing, unless they've been purposely following this case and building up a "theory" themselves. But I certainly agree that it's a possibility.

sxt

Well, Do you believe that independent British Doctors, whom have nothing to gain, and whom should know about more about how a person can and can not die, are lying?

sxt

I did them an injustice , they were Doctors who were experts in their fields. http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=460

nacho libre

I've yet to hear a convincing argument as to why the file on his death needs to be sealed for 70 years if the official narrative that he committed suicide is true.

The Kelly case reminds me of the British frogman that disappeared while spying on a Russian military vessel that was docked in England. The file on his death was also sealed for something like 80 years.

Brendog

FearDark wrote: »

I heard he murdered himself.

suicide is the word you're looking for...

minotour

I do remember thinking at the time that it was awfully convenient for the UK government and worth a closer look at least.

m@cc@

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

**** know, who cares to be honest?

F***in' right, it's just taking up precious newstime that could be devoted to Big Brother and Cheryl Cole.

OutlawPete

I think he took his own life but was driven to suicide because he was "asked" to lie.

I think what he knew was too much for him to cope with.

drkpower

Suicide and Murder are not the only two options here. Contrary to popular (and CTer's) belief, the various doctors who have questioned the verdict in this case have not suggested that he was murdered. They have questioned the verdict of suicide and the cause of death primarily as a result of blood loss. That is quite different to saying it was murder.

humanji

He had an off the record conversation with a reporter in which he revealed some classified information. The reporter, having also spoken to another source, published a story with other details and which claimed Alastair Campbell faked a report on Iraq. Kelly was called before parliment and was scapegoated by the reporter and the MoD.

He was an incredibly depressed man under an abnomal amount of stress. His entire professional life had been pretty much destroyed. Suicide isn't that improbable.

Also, most people who think he was murdered think that it was the UK government who killed him, but what did they have to gain? Making him a martyr is pointless and they had already pretty much discredited him and destroyed his career. Petty revenge served no purpose. On the other hand, Kelly had made a lot of enemies in Iraqi intelligence and I'd say if it was murder, that they were a more likely culprit.

As for the findings being locked for 70 years, that's a bit odd (I mean why not just lock them forever?). But I've never thought of Lords as being in tune with the public or the times (like our judges). He could have genuinely not wanted autopsy details and photos being spread around the papers. If I was a family member, I'd probably find that pretty disturbing.

nacho libre

humanji wrote: »

He had an off the record conversation with a reporter in which he revealed some classified information. The reporter, having also spoken to another source, published a story with other details and which claimed Alastair Campbell faked a report on Iraq. Kelly was called before parliment and was scapegoated by the reporter and the MoD.

He was an incredibly depressed man under an abnomal amount of stress. His entire professional life had been pretty much destroyed. Suicide isn't that improbable.

Also, most people who think he was murdered think that it was the UK government who killed him, but what did they have to gain? Making him a martyr is pointless and they had already pretty much discredited him and destroyed his career. Petty revenge served no purpose. On the other hand, Kelly had made a lot of enemies in Iraqi intelligence and I'd say if it was murder, that they were a more likely culprit.

As for the findings being locked for 70 years, that's a bit odd (I mean why not just lock them forever?). But I've never thought of Lords as being in tune with the public or the times (like our judges). He could have genuinely not wanted autopsy details and photos being spread around the papers. If I was a family member, I'd probably find that pretty disturbing.

it's also possible given his job he had access to and knowledge of more sensitive data that the Intelligence services in Britain might not wish to become public. Given his depressed state they could have deemed him a loose cannon.
As for the 70 year rule, the way the British Government at the time, in particular Hoon, treated his family after his death i doubt sparing Kelly's families sensibilities were the primary concern in sealing the file. If his death was in fact suicide, would it not be better to release the file to debunk the conspiracy theory that has arisen, thereby finally putting the matter to rest and giving his family peace of mind in the process.

Guy:Incognito

up for anything wrote: »

Why would a weapons expert kill himself using tablets and fecking pruning knife. It would be a lot surer and less drawn out and painful to use something with real fire power. I remember when it happened and I always thought that a couple of someones stood over him with guns and 'encouraged' him to do it that way to make it look like a real suicide.

Why would someone help the people trying to make him commit suicide? Whats the worst they could do to him? kill him? Better off refuseing, getting the bullet in the head then everyone knows you were murdered.

Kev_ps3

He was murdered by the fascist Brits of course. No better than the Nazis.

Donne

humanji wrote: »

He was an incredibly depressed man under an abnomal amount of stress. His entire professional life had been pretty much destroyed. Suicide isn't that improbable.

From Wikileaks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_David_Kelly#Death

He had no previous psychiatric history.

Although suicide was officially accepted as the cause of death, some medical experts have raised doubts, suggesting that the evidence does not back this up. The most detailed objection was provided in a letter from three medical doctors published in The Guardian,[24] reinforced by support from two other senior physicians in a later letter to the Guardian.[25] These doctors argued that the autopsy finding of a transected ulnar artery could not have caused a degree of blood loss that would kill someone, particularly when outside in the cold (where vasoconstriction would cause slow blood loss). Further, this conflicted with the minimal amount of blood found at the scene. They also contended that the amount of co-proxamol found was only about a third of what would normally be fatal. Dr Rouse, a British epidemiologist wrote to the British Medical Journal pointing out that the act of committing suicide by severing wrist arteries is an extremely rare occurrence in a 59-year-old man with no previous psychiatric history.[26] Nobody else died from that cause during the year.

Dave Bartlett and Vanessa Hunt, the two paramedics who were called to the scene of Kelly's death, have since gone public with their view that there was not enough blood at the location to justify the belief that he died from blood loss. Bartlett and Hunt told the Guardian that they saw a small amount of blood on plants near Kelly's body and a patch of blood the size of a coin on his trousers. They said they would expect to find several pints of blood at the scene of a suicide involving an arterial cut.[27][28]

So to say the very least, certain questions remain.

Personally I think he was bumped off, for fear of futher revelations that would embarass the Blair government.

sxt

Having "discussed this with his ministerial colleagues", Atorney General Dominic Grieve has decided not to open the secret files, which are to remain locked up for 70 years.


Attorney-General-refuses-open-secret-David-Kelly-files.html?ITO=1490

sxt

sxt wrote: »

Having "discussed this with his ministerial colleagues", Atorney General Dominic Grieve has decided not to open the secret files, which are to remain locked up for 70 years.


Attorney-General-refuses-open-secret-David-Kelly-files.html?ITO=1490

I suspect the principle reason for this is to spare the government embarrasment over the Iraqi supergun and the reason for going to war.
The suspicious death of this individual is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

meditraitor

80% murder........

sxt

Deleted User wrote: »

I suspect the principle reason for this is to spare the government embarrasment over the Iraqi supergun and the reason for going to war.
The suspicious death of this individual is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

The embarrassment was that there was absolutely no threat from "weapons of mass destruction" has been common knowledge for years. The British and American Goverments have tried their best to limit the political effect of this, but every dog on the street knows what went on...


This guy wasn't the only "weapons inspector", but he was the only one that was publically identified, and therefore publically outspoken.


It is the post mortem records of the death of this man that the government are holding back for 70 years.

Which is odd in itself and unprecendented.... but then when take into account that a large amount of independant, "expert" doctors i.e doctors that are fully qualified in this area", are saying that the official cause of death is "impossible"...

Biggins

I've been quietly following this story for a long time now.
A lot of the raw data is not hitting the tabloids who are really choosing to pick out what they see as the juicy bits and using them to hit out at whatever's on their agenda that month or week.

The fact is that the following needs to be answered:

1. A severed ulnar artery that was cut was less than likely to be life threatening for a number of reasons. (a) because the artery when actually cut, retracts itself and clots very fast. (b) the artery is actually smaller than even a basic one that is used to find a pulse, thinner than a match stick, that's how weak that cut artery was. Eight of Englands top specialists totally agreed with these two points alone when they all signed a letter to the editor of the British Times stating this and putting their names and reputation on the line.

2. What was the real reason for the 70 year gagging order? To protect someone obviously. So who?
(a) Someone in Iraq? No, whatever the truthful outcome of an autopsy, that full true report was not going to make a blind bit of difference to front or back-line soldiers or to intelligence matters.
(b) The family? No, they wanted to know either by private or public means, the true cause of his death - note: now they are so sick of the twisted goings on, they just want the matter to die away - and that alone is a disgrace that they have been put in that position.
(c) The government or someone in it? Well lets think about that. Kelly openly admitted that he was forced to "sex up" reports. Obviously such orders/requests/pressure comes from above - not below - for such pressure to work and for he to be made do what he was told to do.
So who was above him bending his ear and subsequently, his writing skills? Who had the most to gain by finding a justification for war - and in the long run claim they were doing right and possibly avoid an international war crimes charge? Who indeed?

3. Why did Dr Kelly predict previously that if Iraq was invaded "I will probably be found dead in the woods" ?

4. How did Dr Kelly cut his left wrist when in actual fact - born out by his doctor - that he had damaged his right arm and was even incapable of cutting steak, never mind digging into skin and bone to cut a minor artery?
We won't here even get into the amounts of blood he even lost - MUCH less then what is required normally to kill someone (see Times reports below).

5. Why did he take 29 non-lethal tablets when its well recorded that he had an aversion/problem to swallowing medicine?

6. Why was there NO fingerprints on the supposed cutting knife when he was NOT wearing gloves?

There are other questions but those are the first six main ones.

Here are a couple of the Times reports - they are posted as jpegs as the Times site is pay per view and as such, posting links to them wouldn't work for most readers here who don't have an account with the Times (I do):

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1002/wwwthetimescoukttonewsp.jpg
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1475/wwwthetimescoukttonewspk.jpg
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/1002/wwwthetimescoukttonewsp.jpg

The diversion tactic is working very well, plenty of talk about a suspicious death. Little about what he was dealing with before his death!