New rules for taxing vans/jeeps as commerical ??

eiei0

Hi All can anyone shed some light on this for me.

My Da went to tax his van the other day and the would not tax it unless he produced his Vat number. He doesnt have a vat number as we use the van as a service van at Rallies.

the (westmeath coco) said there is new rules out saying you need a vat number to tax a van/jeep as commerical.

Is this correct as others councils dont seem to be doing this and no one we spoke to in the last few days has heard about this.

if it has to be taxed as private it will cost over 1500quid thats mental money for a van used 8-10 times a year.

thanks

T.

corktina

well lets see, you arent using it as a Commercial so therefore you must be using it privately. This has always been the case, they are only clamping down now. I'm not sure you do need a VAT number though, just proof that it is indeed a commercial.(which it isnt in this case)

testicle

eiei0 wrote: »

He doesnt have a vat number as we use the van as a service van at Rallies.

corktina wrote: »

well lets see, you arent using it as a Commercial so therefore you must be using it privately.

What bit didn't you understand?

Companies are not required to be registered for VAT unless their turnover is over a certain amount...

Eric Cartman

go to a different tax office, i know with crewcab and commercial declerations the offices make up their own rules, some ask for employees ppsn numbers for crewcabs, others ask for VAT numbers for commercials, these are not goverment RF100,rf101 etc... forms, there just a bit of paper somebody in the council made up, thats kind of a stupid one because you dont need a VAT number to run a business. id suggest getting the commercial decleration form from dublin or kildare which are very standard and bringing that with you , handing it over filled out and all and hope they say nothing

alias no.9

How well kitted out is the van? Maybe classifying it as a mobile workshop rather than a goods vehicle would be more appropriate. It will require the van to be inspected and shown to be adapted for the purpose.

corktina

testicle wrote: »

What bit didn't you understand?

Companies are not required to be registered for VAT unless their turnover is over a certain amount...

which bit didnt I understand? YOUR bit actually...

rebel.ranter

I wonder will they start asking for tax clearance certificates next?

Eric Cartman

rebel.ranter wrote: »

I wonder will they start asking for tax clearance certificates next?

ahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahhahaa....they better not....:(

kasper

i bought a xsara van two weeks ago , went into mullingar motor tax office last tuesday with the vlc and doe cert and it was taxed commercial no questions asked

meathstevie

A vehicle is a commercial vehicle by virtue of it's physical layout, not by it's use. If it was defined by use every salesman's car, taxi, limo etc should be vrt'd and taxed commercially.

mickdw

corktina wrote: »

which bit didnt I understand? YOUR bit actually...

He is right though. You can legally run a business with small turnover without being VAT registered. I assume this same small business is entitled to have the use of a van so surely it should be able to tax it for business use.

Id like to know the law on this.

eiei0

It was in mullingar that the would not tax the van with out a vat number, strange how the let you and stopped my Dad ????

kasper wrote: »

i bought a xsara van two weeks ago , went into mullingar motor tax office last tuesday with the vlc and doe cert and it was taxed commercial no questions asked

Max Power1

meathstevie wrote: »

A vehicle is a commercial vehicle by virtue of it's physical layout, not by it's use. If it was defined by use every salesman's car, taxi, limo etc should be vrt'd and taxed commercially.

:eek:
No, a vehicle is taxed according to use. Seems to be a lot of misinformation out there on this topic.

SD&P (private taxation for private use, regardless of vehicle layout) or commercial (used for business purposes only, technically even using a vehicle taxed on commercial rate for one non work related trip is against the rule)

kasper

what sort of van did it have nct or doe ?

kasper

what sort of van was it , did it have doe or nct ?

danjo

mickdw wrote: »

He is right though. You can legally run a business with small turnover without being VAT registered. I assume this same small business is entitled to have the use of a van so surely it should be able to tax it for business use.

Id like to know the law on this.

If you are in business you must be registered with Revenue for taxation purposes but not necessarily for VAT.
To avail of the commercial taxation rate the vehicle must be exclusively used for business purposes.
The OP did not say whether the activity at ralllies was business or pleasure so it is not possible to say if he is entitled to register the van at the commercial rate.

mickdw

true but that still doesnt make any more sense of why they would ask for a VAT number though.

TJJP

Sorry, stupid question perhaps but why not just tax it online (www.motortax.ie) if it's a renewal?

kasper

not sure you can tax a commercial online because you need a doe cert i could be wrong

peasant

mickdw wrote: »

true but that still doesnt make any more sense of why they would ask for a VAT number though.

Because it's the easiest way for the official behind the desk to find out if you have a legitimate business or alternatively, if you do have a business but no vat number, to put the onus of proof on you and avoid doing any research themselves.

Plus it puts private owners on the wrong foot immediately.

In short ..it made sense in some civil servants' mind

TJJP

peasant wrote: »

Because it's the easiest way for the official behind the desk to find out if you have a legitimate business or alternatively, if you do have a business but no vat number, to put the onus of proof on you and avoid doing any research themselves.

Plus it puts private owners on the wrong foot immediately.

In short ..it made sense in some civil servants' mind

Public servant or (public servant's if I'm being really pedantic)....... (-:

Mycroft H

But what about farmers or own goods vehicles??

Surely this is a bit ridiculous, there is many farmers about the country who have a commercial jeep used about the farm but a farm wouldn't be used commercially per say.



EDIT :

found this on the Department of the Environment website :


Renewing motor tax where there is:
no change in owner/vehicle details (e.g. name/address/engine size) and taxing vehicle from the expiry date of the previous disc.

The following are required to renew motor tax in these circumstances:

- Tax renewal form RF100b (computerised reminder form issued, approx. 3/4 weeks before renewal date, by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Computer Services Division, Shannon Town Centre, Co. Clare. (Phone: 061-365000 or **Lo-Call 1890-411412) or form RF100a available from Motor Tax Offices, Public Libraries and Garda stations.

- Appropriate fee

- A certificate of roadworthiness /pass statement issued by an authorised tester for all goods vehicles/buses/coaches/ambulances 1 year old or over. Goods trailers having a design gross vehicle weight exceeding 3,500 kgs, 1 year old or over.

- A PSV licence (only applies to small and large public service vehicles)

- Article 60 licence (only applies to school buses)

- A certificate of approval from the Revenue Commissioners for a disabled driver/passenger (only applies to an exempt vehicle)





No where does it say anything about a VAT number to get commercial insurance - only a doe cert.

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/Renewal/

Guy:Incognito

meathstevie wrote: »

A vehicle is a commercial vehicle by virtue of it's physical layout, not by it's use. If it was defined by use every salesman's car, taxi, limo etc should be vrt'd and taxed commercially.

it's not that simple. Sure why would anyone whos tax is more than €288 would have there car taxed commercially.

Maybe you should inform the authorities they dont know how to administer the system.

Taxis etc have a different tax class anyway.

2 stroke

If they insist on taxing goods vehicles as private, can you put in rear seats and side windows. also if I understand correctly, it is illegal for a doe centre to test a privately taxed vehicle/nct centres cannot handle the weight of larger goods vehicles like transits.

danjo

peasant wrote: »

Because it's the easiest way for the official behind the desk to find out if you have a legitimate business or alternatively, if you do have a business but no vat number, to put the onus of proof on you and avoid doing any research themselves.

Plus it puts private owners on the wrong foot immediately.

In short ..it made sense in some civil servants' mind

Yes, and many owners of commercial vehicles will be claiming back the VAT paid on fuel. So they will be registered for VAT.

Henry Ford III

2 stroke wrote: »

If they insist on taxing goods vehicles as private, can you put in rear seats and side windows. also if I understand correctly, it is illegal for a doe centre to test a privately taxed vehicle/nct centres cannot handle the weight of larger goods vehicles like transits.

VRT might be an issue then?

2 stroke

2 stroke wrote: »

If they insist on taxing goods vehicles as private, can you put in rear seats and side windows. also if I understand correctly, it is illegal for a doe centre to test a privately taxed vehicle/nct centres cannot handle the weight of larger goods vehicles like transits.

This is true, you cannot doe a car or nct a van/car van/commercial 4x4. They are just going to make more trouble than its worth if they start enforcing it. Its fine as it is with all vans/car vans/commercial 4x4's vehicles being taxed as commercials regardless of how they are used.

I know there is no way on earth I would pay private tax on a van I had a car van for commuting a while back and you can be sure I was paying commercial tax on it.

gofaster_s13

2 stroke wrote: »

it is illegal for a doe centre to test a privately taxed vehicle/nct centres cannot handle the weight of larger goods vehicles like transits.

A DOE centre can test anything but it will fail because it doesnt meet goods vehicle criteria, NCT centres equipment is rated to 4.0t anything that doesnt fit on their lifts is brought to a DOE centre for a vehicle underbody inspection.

corktina

mickdw wrote: »

He is right though. You can legally run a business with small turnover without being VAT registered. I assume this same small business is entitled to have the use of a van so surely it should be able to tax it for business use.

Id like to know the law on this.

You are quite right but a rally Barge is a leisure pursuit vehicle, not a commercial

gofaster_s13

eiei0 wrote: »

Hi All can anyone shed some light on this for me.

My Da went to tax his van the other day and the would not tax it unless he produced his Vat number. He doesnt have a vat number as we use the van as a service van at Rallies.

the (westmeath coco) said there is new rules out saying you need a vat number to tax a van/jeep as commerical.

Is this correct as others councils dont seem to be doing this and no one we spoke to in the last few days has heard about this.

if it has to be taxed as private it will cost over 1500quid thats mental money for a van used 8-10 times a year.

thanks

T.

Was just told by Kildare Co.Co. that they are looking for tax clearance certs now(VAT no.) for commercial tax and its supposed to be coming in nationwide from the 1st of september :mad:

snowman707

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

Was just told by Kildare Co.Co. that they are looking for tax clearance certs now(VAT no.) for commercial insurance and its supposed to be coming in nationwide from the 1st of september :mad:

tax clearance cert and Vat no. are 2 different items,. I have a tax clearance cert . but don't have a vat no. have 2 commercial jeeps though so following this thread with interest ( and fear :mad:)

Mycroft H

this better not happen...


I cannot afford 1120 euro per year on motor tax. Stupid goverment :mad: Stupid Kildare county council :mad:

galwaytt

I think ye're all correct, which of course, is the entire problem......

I'm thinking about buying.......something.......but this subject has me hedging my bets, big time.

Reminds me of a conversation with Hibernian a few years ago, where they wouldn't quote me on a van, unless it WAS for commercial purposes .......so I replied but, if I need a van, say, to haul a jet-ski to the lake. To which she replied, 'if we knew you were carrying a jet-ski, we wouldn't cover it anyway......'

FFS.........

Anyhoo, none of this explains why I was in an S Class today. Commercial. Yep, the saloon, and no, not a cab/taxi/whatever. No rear seats, panelled out inside, but still with glass. Apparently car is so voluminous that it qualifies......if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I wouldn't have believed it!

Oh, and not diesel, either.

Mycroft H

Its a completely ridiculous situation.


What is the situation for own goods vehicles? Or farmers? :rolleyes:

I'm going to write a letter to the Department of the Environment and see what the situation is.

I believe the County councils issue motor tax on behalf of the Dept. of the Environment

sandt

i was in a taxation office in Donegal at the start of the week to tax my dad's car/van and they wanted 'company registration details' (no mention of VAT no) before they would tax it', i told them it was being used privately and he said 'we need the tax book in to change it from commercial to private'. which i think would change the tax from 282e to 680e / year!!

a friend was also taxing his van in a different part of the county today and he told me they asked the same questions, he said he just put down his PPS no. and that he was an out of work joiner.

My dad is retired, and has another car, all he uses the car/van for is taking his dogs to the beach a twice a day - not a 'commercial use' i know but does this 'new legislation' they are trying to enforce mean that you cannot buy a van unless you have a business? :mad:

peasant

sandt wrote: »

... you cannot buy a van unless you have a business? :mad:

You can buy vans until the cows come home ...business or no business.

What you can't do is avail of the cheap commercial tax unless you have a business. And even then, the van is supposed to be used for business purposes only ...so, no driving the misses to church, the dogs to the beach or yourself to the shops.

Cookie_Monster

landyman wrote: »

Its a completely ridiculous situation.

why is it so ridiculous.

If people weren't taking the piss, trying to get commercial tax for private vehicles it wouldn't be needed but as it is there is massive fraud occurring so tougher measures are needed.

Cookie_Monster

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why is it so ridiculous.

If people weren't taking the piss, trying to get commercial tax for private vehicles it wouldn't be needed but as it is there is massive fraud occurring so tougher measures are needed.

If a vehicle is a commercial vehicle then it should be subject to commercial tax regardless of use imo. You have in all fairness sacrificed being able to carry 3 extra people by having no back seats so tax should reflect this.

There will be war if they stop farmers from taxing their vehicles commercially and rightly so. Farmers have a strong lobby in this country so I can see the rules being relaxed again.

Presumably though all you need to do is make up a vat number and write it down, I would say the chances of it being checked out are zero.

Also the fact still stands that a privately taxed car van/van/4x4 cannot be nct'd or doe'd.

djimi

sandt wrote: »

i was in a taxation office in Donegal at the start of the week to tax my dad's car/van and they wanted 'company registration details' (no mention of VAT no) before they would tax it', i told them it was being used privately and he said 'we need the tax book in to change it from commercial to private'. which i think would change the tax from 282e to 680e / year!!

a friend was also taxing his van in a different part of the county today and he told me they asked the same questions, he said he just put down his PPS no. and that he was an out of work joiner.

My dad is retired, and has another car, all he uses the car/van for is taking his dogs to the beach a twice a day - not a 'commercial use' i know but does this 'new legislation' they are trying to enforce mean that you cannot buy a van unless you have a business? :mad:

So you want to tax a vehicle as commercial even tho you have admitted to them it will be for private use, and youre still amazed that they wont allow it? Wow...

This is not new legistlation btw, youve never been allowed to tax a private vehicle as a commercial, it just seems that now they are clamping down on it.

peasant

Reagan Uneven Reactor wrote: »

You have in all fairness sacrificed being able to carry 3 extra people by having no back seats so tax should reflect this.

It does ...through the cheaper VRT rate

Cookie_Monster

peasant wrote: »

It does ...through the cheaper VRT rate

and no VAT

Cookie_Monster

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

and no VAT

Only if you are registered for vat though. If you are a private buyer you have to pay the vat.

meathstevie

meathstevie wrote: »

taxi, limo etc should be vrt'd and taxed commercially.

Taxi's and Limo's are taxed as PSVs, €67/annum iirc. Sales reps car is used as a passenger car mainly, I had one for a year and only had some sh1t in the boot. So private tax is correct for them.

Cookie_Monster

Reagan Uneven Reactor wrote: »

Only if you are registered for vat though. If you are a private buyer you have to pay the vat.

and the motor tax :P:P:P

gbee

kasper wrote: »

not sure you can tax a commercial online because you need a doe cert i could be wrong

Not wrong.

beaver111

Reagan Uneven Reactor wrote: »

If a vehicle is a commercial vehicle then it should be subject to commercial tax regardless of use imo. You have in all fairness sacrificed being able to carry 3 extra people by having no back seats so tax should reflect this.

There will be war if they stop farmers from taxing their vehicles commercially and rightly so. Farmers have a strong lobby in this country so I can see the rules being relaxed again.

Presumably though all you need to do is make up a vat number and write it down, I would say the chances of it being checked out are zero.

Also the fact still stands that a privately taxed car van/van/4x4 cannot be nct'd or doe'd.

just buy a van and dont tax it' catch 22

gbee

beaver111 wrote: »

just buy a van and dont tax it' catch 22

Then it'll be impounded and crushed.

Cookie_Monster

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

and the motor tax :P:P:P

My point being its the vehicle type which should decide its tax class and not its use. Most people I know, including my own family have a van or commercial jeep for the farm etc etc and I can tell you not one pays private tax on them.

beaver111 wrote: »

just buy a van and dont tax it' catch 22

Its what will happen if they move from the way things currently work. I would certainly take the risk rather than pay more than 288 euro to tax a van.

gofaster_s13

Reagan Uneven Reactor wrote: »

My point being its the vehicle type which should decide its tax class and not its use.

What would stop everybody buying ambulances and being tax exempt then ?? vehicles are always taxed according to their use.

gofaster_s13

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

What would stop everybody buying ambulances and being tax exempt then ?? vehicles are always taxed according to their use.

I can guarantee you that this is how 90% of people think it works anyway. For a start a lot of people actually think its not allowed to to tax a van privately. This forum is the only place where people talk about taxing vans privately. I mentioned it to a few people who have car vans recently about all this supposed to tax privately rubbish and I was just laughed at.

Mycroft H

Averie High Scholarship wrote: »

My point being its the vehicle type which should decide its tax class and not its use. Most people I know, including my own family have a van or commercial jeep for the farm etc etc and I can tell you not one pays private tax on them.

Exactly. And for the people that say that a commercial vehicle should only be used for 'commercial' purposes? How many times have you seen a van in tescos? You can bet any amount of money that every one of them will have commercial tax.

My dad is a part time farmer and we are not VAT registered, nor do we have a company registration cert or anything like that. The jeep is used to move livestock and feed in place of the tractor, of which we don't have at the moment. The farm is run to make money but however we are not eligible for commercial tax? Where is the fairness in that????

You are right Averie High Scholarship. The farmers lobby group are a very powerful group in this country. There will be war about it