Where is everyone???

L.T.P.

Have been in Galway & Kilkenny recently and couldn't get over how busy and vibrant these places are. All were very busy and it almost seemed I was visiting a different country such was the contrast with Limerick. There was certainly no visible signs of recession in any of these places.

So my question is what needs to be done to rectify the situation?

kilburn

I am in the middle of doing a footfall survey for market research and to be honest the results are quite shocking for O'Connel St and Thomas St.

Amazotheamazing

Limerick is always empty in the summer. Check half the coastal towns between Waterville and Sligo for the locals.

munstergirl

I think all the limerick people emigrated to dublin to get a job.

Or maybe they are in kilkee.

Dole office was mad busy this am, 2 new hatches with line going out on street down to costellos. Never seen it so bad.

Limerick_Lass

L.T.P. wrote: »

Have been in Galway & Kilkenny recently and couldn't get over how busy and vibrant these places are. All were very busy and it almost seemed I was visiting a different country such was the contrast with Limerick. There was certainly no visible signs of recession in any of these places.

So my question is what needs to be done to rectify the situation?

Do you want us all staying In Limerick and not going anywhere? Id crack up!

Kess73

L.T.P. wrote: »

Have been in Galway & Kilkenny recently and couldn't get over how busy and vibrant these places are. All were very busy and it almost seemed I was visiting a different country such was the contrast with Limerick. There was certainly no visible signs of recession in any of these places.

So my question is what needs to be done to rectify the situation?

Yeah it is a real eye opener when people see how busy the streets are in the two places you mentioned and in Cork City centre.

But not surprising though either, as both places you mentioned were quick to adjust rates and the like when the economic downturn was only starting to bite. Plus the local authorities/councils in both have been working very hard to make it actually attractive for businesses to come to their town centres.

Galway and Cork in particular have city councils that have some people with the right backgrounds to understand the needs of both the retailers and the general public, and the fact that their city centres are doing better business that their out of town shopping centres and retail parks is a credit to them.

They have also gotten a good balance between parking, plenty of selection in terms of stores, and the all important walking areas for pedestrians. Patrick street in Cork is a great example of a street with huge room for pedestrians that still has cars on it.

Galway shows how well a pedestrianised area can work as long as there is a city council that has a clue as to how to run it, and recognise that for it to be viable it needs to retain the right mix of retailers, and convenience outlets etc to attract a constant and healthy footfall.


IMHO Limerick could be a great mix of both those cities if it had the right people making plans for the town. On paper Limerick is in a great location with a potentially huge catchment area, and with some great natural advantages, but it would seem that it is following a similar route to Waterford in terms of city planners and a council that tend to look for easy soundbytes rather than tackling any real issues involving a city centre that is becoming less and less of an attraction compared to other nearby options .

Kess73

munstergirl wrote: »

I think all the limerick people emigrated to dublin to get a job.

Or maybe they are in kilkee.

Dole office was mad busy this am, 2 new hatches with line going out on street down to costellos. Never seen it so bad.

There was another large jump in the figures for Limerick reported a week or two ago. Seems a lot of people who were signing on Wednesdays have gone passed the twelve month mark and have been switched to the Tuesday signing.

I saw the lines there today and it was not a nice sight to see them going along the street outside the building due to there not being enough room inside for those particular lines.


Think I read last week that the city figure is somewhere between 16k to 17k signing on, and the county figure is about 7k to 8k

munstergirl

August 2010 unemployment 23,148.

With on average 28 people every day losing their job.

We could have the most amazying city centre in the world, but with no money to spend shops, pubs, resturants don't last very long.

Does anyone know how many people actually work in limerick?

Population 100,000+ minus unemployed, minus kids, minus pensioners.

Kess73

munstergirl wrote: »

August 2010 unemployment 23,148.

With on average 28 people every day losing their job.

We could have the most amazying city centre in the world, but with no money to spend shops, pubs, resturants don't last very long.

Does anyone know how many people actually work in limerick?

Population 100,000+ minus unemployed, minus kids, minus pensioners.

23,148 is a huge figure when compared to the amount of people of working age in the city and county.


Not sure what the population of the City and count combined is, but would guess that it is about 170k to 190k, with maybe half of that falling in the 0-16 age group and the 65 and over age group.

So that would leave about 95k of working age, with 23k of that unemployed.

I know in the last census in 2006 that Limerick had the highest unemployment rate, 14.6%, in the country at that time, so I would imagine that % is far higher now in 2010.

sleepyman

L.T.P. wrote: »

Have been in Galway & Kilkenny recently and couldn't get over how busy and vibrant these places are. All were very busy and it almost seemed I was visiting a different country such was the contrast with Limerick. There was certainly no visible signs of recession in any of these places.

So my question is what needs to be done to rectify the situation?

Have to agree with you-the only time the city seems to be buzzing is a heineken cup weekend & that only amounts to 3 or 4 times a year.Galway & Kilkenny have always been seen as great weekend getaways while Limerick still has that perception & stigma of being a tough rough city.All you need do is go onto tripadvisor and see the reviews of the city aren't great.Personally I think from a building point of view Limerick has more to offer than both of the above.
The problem is so many areas of the city still look like a kip-Cruises St, Patrick St , William St etc while the core of Kilkenny & Galway look more 'tourist friendly'.Like another poster said the city council there seem to make more of an effort in having nice shopfronts, nice shops etc.
There doesn't seem to be the same desire/money to do it in Limerick.
Vacant buildings or buildings that need to be taken down(the brown Dunnes Stores springs to mind).
In saying that though the city looks a hell of a lot better now than it did 10/15 years ago.It justs needs to keep up the improvement.

Poxyshamrock

Limerick is just an unnaturally quiet city anyway.

The directors of the company I work for are always amazed at how quiet the streets of the city centre are.

dave 27

L.T.P. wrote: »

Have been in Galway & Kilkenny recently and couldn't get over how busy and vibrant these places are. All were very busy and it almost seemed I was visiting a different country such was the contrast with Limerick. There was certainly no visible signs of recession in any of these places.

So my question is what needs to be done to rectify the situation?

Im actually just back from holidaying in county galway (connemara), the place was mobbed with tourists as it always is.

the thing is tho, Galway aleways has stuff on to attract people, ie the galway races and i think the arts festival is just over so that would explain it.

as for kilkenny, the kilkenny arts festival is on at the moment which attracts tens of thousands of people.

Limerick is deserted because you have a huge young population as mentioned including nearly 30,000 students who want to go away for a break to wherever,..
go to kilkee or any coastal town on the west coast and you will see everyone you know!

Berty

Im often in Cork and Galway. Galway is thronged during the Summer with tourists and then thronged with Students when the tourists go home. Cork is similar but has a large population so always appears busy.

Both Galway and Cork have Vibrant cities with some money spent and though put into them.

Im off to Galway in the morning myself and the only thing I hate about Galway is the traffic. Limerick wins with traffic over Cork and Galway.

Dublin on the other hand is a sh*t hole!

seachto7

was in Cork today, and must say, it's looking really well, loads of people around too...

ccyy123

dave 27 wrote: »

the thing is tho, Galway aleways has stuff on to attract people, ie the galway races and i think the arts festival is just over so that would explain it.

Galway is always very busy during the summer with its regatta and the likes. The problem is there is no big events that attract people to Limerick. Having Shannon airport so near, we should have more annual events to maximize our tourism industry.

L.T.P.

kilburn wrote: »

I am in the middle of doing a footfall survey for market research and to be honest the results are quite shocking for O'Connel St and Thomas St.

I'm not surprised Kilburn. O'Connell St is one of our main thoroughfares but is almost empty at times. It is in need of a major facelift. I just hope the rumours regarding Brown Thomas aren't true, it would be disastrous if they were to close. Thomas St & Bedford Row have been improved immensely and they have some quality retailers and cafes which can only be a good thing. I don't know what can be done to increase footfall though! Perhaps levelling the site of the Opera Centre and turning it into a low cost car-park temporarily might attract more people, not sure how feasible that would be though.

L.T.P.

Kess73 wrote: »

Yeah it is a real eye opener when people see how busy the streets are in the two places you mentioned and in Cork City centre.

But not surprising though either, as both places you mentioned were quick to adjust rates and the like when the economic downturn was only starting to bite. Plus the local authorities/councils in both have been working very hard to make it actually attractive for businesses to come to their town centres.

Galway and Cork in particular have city councils that have some people with the right backgrounds to understand the needs of both the retailers and the general public, and the fact that their city centres are doing better business that their out of town shopping centres and retail parks is a credit to them.

They have also gotten a good balance between parking, plenty of selection in terms of stores, and the all important walking areas for pedestrians. Patrick street in Cork is a great example of a street with huge room for pedestrians that still has cars on it.

Galway shows how well a pedestrianised area can work as long as there is a city council that has a clue as to how to run it, and recognise that for it to be viable it needs to retain the right mix of retailers, and convenience outlets etc to attract a constant and healthy footfall.


IMHO Limerick could be a great mix of both those cities if it had the right people making plans for the town. On paper Limerick is in a great location with a potentially huge catchment area, and with some great natural advantages, but it would seem that it is following a similar route to Waterford in terms of city planners and a council that tend to look for easy soundbytes rather than tackling any real issues involving a city centre that is becoming less and less of an attraction compared to other nearby options .

Eye opener is an understatement I think the planners & councils have an awful lot to answer for, Limerick City is a fantastic location but the powers that be have managed to totally f**k it up.

L.T.P.

sleepyman wrote: »

Have to agree with you-the only time the city seems to be buzzing is a heineken cup weekend & that only amounts to 3 or 4 times a year.Galway & Kilkenny have always been seen as great weekend getaways while Limerick still has that perception & stigma of being a tough rough city.All you need do is go onto tripadvisor and see the reviews of the city aren't great.Personally I think from a building point of view Limerick has more to offer than both of the above.
The problem is so many areas of the city still look like a kip-Cruises St, Patrick St , William St etc while the core of Kilkenny & Galway look more 'tourist friendly'.Like another poster said the city council there seem to make more of an effort in having nice shopfronts, nice shops etc.
There doesn't seem to be the same desire/money to do it in Limerick.
Vacant buildings or buildings that need to be taken down(the brown Dunnes Stores springs to mind).
In saying that though the city looks a hell of a lot better now than it did 10/15 years ago.It justs needs to keep up the improvement.

Agreed, the city is completely transformed on rugby weekends, great buzz about the place. We need more events, concerts etc to draw people to the city. Hopefully the Gaelic Grounds will also start to get in on the act. Rutland St & Patrick St. are disgraceful and the sooner something happens here the better.

L.T.P.

dave 27 wrote: »

Im actually just back from holidaying in county galway (connemara), the place was mobbed with tourists as it always is.

the thing is tho, Galway aleways has stuff on to attract people, ie the galway races and i think the arts festival is just over so that would explain it.

as for kilkenny, the kilkenny arts festival is on at the moment which attracts tens of thousands of people.

Limerick is deserted because you have a huge young population as mentioned including nearly 30,000 students who want to go away for a break to wherever,..
go to kilkee or any coastal town on the west coast and you will see everyone you know!

An arts festival in Limerick would be fantastic and not beyond the realms of possibility. We have great facilities such as the Millenium Theatre, UCH, Belltable, Cinemas etc, I really don't know why there isn't one!

pappyodaniel

L.T.P. wrote: »

Agreed, the city is completely transformed on rugby weekends, great buzz about the place. We need more events, concerts etc to draw people to the city. Hopefully the Gaelic Grounds will also start to get in on the act. Rutland St & Patrick St. are disgraceful and the sooner something happens here the better.

+1, what the city needs is more events and festivals etc. Something uniquely Limerick...but what besides the obvious (rugby) is uniquely Limerick? I think the city has a good up and coming music scene and a strong artistic community. A brains trust is needed to promote the 2 of these and attract people to the city.

I'm a regular visistor to a small town in Co. Donegal where they have an annual festival commemorating a famous musician who was born there but moved away when he was 2 years of age. For one weekend the town is wedged with visitors, the pubs are packed and the hotels/b'nb's are full. They are cashing in on a link between their town and a musician with a huge following.

How can our city do something similar? An Angela's Ashes Weekend like Bloom's Day in Dublin commemorating Ulysses? A Terry Wogan Day? A Willie O'Dea night? ....I don't know,I'm clutching at straws now, any other recommendations or something we can celebrate?

L.T.P.

pappyodaniel wrote: »

+1, what the city needs is more events and festivals etc. Something uniquely Limerick...but what besides the obvious (rugby) is uniquely Limerick? I think the city has a good up and coming music scene and a strong artistic community. A brains trust is needed to promote the 2 of these and attract people to the city.

I'm a regular visistor to a small town in Co. Donegal where they have an annual festival commemorating a famous musician who was born there but moved away when he was 2 years of age. For one weekend the town is wedged with visitors, the pubs are packed and the hotels/b'nb's are full. They are cashing in on a link between their town and a musician with a huge following.

How can our city do something similar? An Angela's Ashes Weekend like Bloom's Day in Dublin commemorating Ulysses? A Terry Wogan Day? A Willie O'Dea night? ....I don't know,I'm clutching at straws now, any other recommendations or something we can celebrate?

Yes, some form of brains trust is definitely needed! God knows we have the facilities and the talent it is beyond me how there isn't some form of annual arts festival, it would be great for the city. There also seems to be a vibrant live music scene but apart from Dolan's Warehouse I don't think there is any other venue.

Limerick_Lass

Would a comedy weekend do well, we have our share of comedians or would it be hard to compete with Kilkennys?

Edinburgh has some fantastic festivals in August, cant see why something like that cant be arranged.

rainyrun

i work in retail slap bang in the middle of limerick and the footfall downturn that has deteriorated over the past 2 years is really shocking! I am horrified to hear on here that BT could close (i dont work there btw) but I do know for what its worth it is a footfall driver into the city.
your comments about a festival are spot on.. most small towns have their annual festival and they are fantastic! but limerick dont do anything! they could have a pageant festival like "limerick your a lady" similar to "mary of dungloe" festival or the" rose of tralee".. they are all based on songs!
The city could really do with something to give the summer trade a boost..and enhance the cities positive reputation. i am not a native off Limerick but I think its a fantastic city with wonderful people living here, I see that every day. I know there is the troublesome element,but you get that everywhere!!!

zuroph

galway has a massive restaurant and pub quarter, the problem with limerick is a lot of the stuff is very spread out, and the streeets arent the "stroll and mingle" type.

Amazotheamazing

I don't think we should get caught up in continually comparing ourselves to Galway or Cork, or looking to steal festival ideas from Kilkenny. Galway and Cork have had universities for over 150 years, this has allowed a certain type of culture build up, Limerick is still playing catch-up because of that. Limerick was a traditional industrial town where young people had to leave to get a third level education. When UL was built, it was built on a separate campus outside the city, unlike the Queen's campuses built in Cork or Galway. For that reason it has taken longer for the university to put real roots in the town and explains why Limerick doesn't feel like a university city. This is slowly changing, we are starting to see a real impact of students in Limerick and students who stay in Limerick and add to the city after their graduation.

Wrt to festivals, we are a long way behind other places, but other places started their festivals 30 years ago, even if we start now (like say with riverfest or Pig and Porter) we need to be patient and allow it grow or fail on it's own merits.

Realistically Limerick will continue to improve by babysteps that will seem frustratingly slow for a lot of people. There is no magic solution but things are improving.

munstergirl

Would you really want to come to limerick on a holiday, honestly?

I know rugby fans do and when they do hotels put up there prices. If they kept them same people might stay a week instead of a night.

As for murders, gangland, do tourists care if it only happens is certain parts of the city

Man shot petrol station ennis road, man shot in head st john's square, man shot in head buried in field, man kicked in head outside petrol station, will i go on. All this just happened in last 6 months, this has been going on 10+ years.

I think tourists v scumbags, so many people walking streets 80+ convictions.

The gardai are doing a great job at moment but its about 10 years too late.

I love limerick just as much as any other limerick person.

zuroph

hotel prices arent even factoring into it though, I've to stay with work in galway often, and do you know how much Jurys Inn are charging up there on a regular night.... €120 b+b.

Amazotheamazing

munstergirl wrote: »

Would you really want to come to limerick on a holiday, honestly?

I know rugby fans do and when they do hotels put up there prices. If they kept them same people might stay a week instead of a night.

As for murders, gangland, do tourists care if it only happens is certain parts of the city

Man shot petrol station ennis road, man shot in head st john's square, man shot in head buried in field, man kicked in head outside petrol station, will i go on. All this just happened in last 6 months, this has been going on 10+ years.

I think tourists v scumbags, so many people walking streets 80+ convictions.

The gardai are doing a great job at moment but its about 10 years too late.

I love limerick just as much as any other limerick person.

That might be the current situation but that will not always be the situation. Criminal gangs rise and fall, the guys in Limerick now will eventually be replaced by gangs from Cork, Galway, Athlone or wherever. I appreciate the more nervous of the posters here won't believe that but it's been that way all over the world and will be the same here.

While we're waiting for that to happen, we can work on making this city a place that locals and visitors enjoy, that begins with improving the city centre.

BESman

zuroph wrote: »

galway has a massive restaurant and pub quarter, the problem with limerick is a lot of the stuff is very spread out, and the streeets arent the "stroll and mingle" type.

This is a very good point. I'm a Galway man but I'm working in Limerick. The big difference between Limerick and Galway is the spread of pubs and restaurants. In Galway you've got everything pretty much on Shop Street and Eyre Square and the streets are nice and sheltered so you get a lot of this "strolling and mingling" which tourists love. Just doesn't work in Limerick. Also, as another poster mentioned, the university in Limerick is still relatively young and the city suffers by having the campus located way out on the edge of town. Without a doubt, having the Galway university campus slap bang in the middle of town is a massive benefit for the entire city. There is constantly activity and young people around as a result.

To be honest, you'd get sick of all the touristy, hippy, boho sh1te in Galway. Theres a lot of things to complain about in Limerick, but there is a bit of realism here and thats not such a bad thing.

Amazotheamazing

BESman wrote: »

This is a very good point. I'm a Galway man but I'm working in Limerick. The big difference between Limerick and Galway is the spread of pubs and restaurants. In Galway you've got everything pretty much on Shop Street and Eyre Square and the streets are nice and sheltered so you get a lot of this "strolling and mingling" which tourists love. Just doesn't work in Limerick. Also, as another poster mentioned, the university in Limerick is still relatively young and the city suffers by having the campus located way out on the edge of town. Without a doubt, having the Galway university campus slap bang in the middle of town is a massive benefit for the entire city. There is constantly activity and young people around as a result.

To be honest, you'd get sick of all the touristy, hippy, boho sh1te in Galway. Theres a lot of things to complain about in Limerick, but there is a bit of realism here and thats not such a bad thing.

True enough but we're going to have to work with what we have here. A few simple things could be done to improve the city centre. We should actively work on turning the Market Quarter into an actual quarter, the council should aid this by slowly phasing out council housing in the Watergate flats.

One of the greatest mistakes Limerick ever made was the Island field, I'm not joking when I say it has the potential to be an incredible place, great river, views of the Clare hills, plenty of park land, a few minutes walk from the city centre. It's absolutely depressing to see what we've done to it. The city should adopt a long term plan to develop the place over the next 25 years, preferably removing all the but the best of the tenants.

Kess73

What Limerick would benefit from is a genuine attempt to make a section of the city into something similar to Liverpool One.


Yes Liverpool One was a huge project, but it looks amazing now, and causes huge numbers in that part of the city.


People might reply to me and say the Opera Centre was going to be that, but the plans for the Opera centre don't come close to even a small part of Liverpool One. When it was being planned, vearious retail chains, restaurants, etc were all consulted at the planning stages. The retailers were signed up even before work began, with guarantees of opening times, rates etc already in place.

Here in Limerick it seems to go the other way. Units and retail parks get built up without first having set things in motion for tenents or even considering what type of tenents to approach.

I say that last bit having experienced trying to bring a store to Limerick City centre for a 2004/2005 opening, after the company I was working for had already done so in Galway, Cork, Dublin, and Belfast, as well as numerous branches around the UK. Meetings were organised with the powers that be for the city centre and I ended up meeting with people who came to meetings with no solid information, people who knew very little about retail, people who could not discuss even basic needs of a business in any great detail. Basically it was amatuer hour. The store bypassed Limerick city centre as a result and went to the Crescent Shopping centre.

Now in the years prior to that,I was involved at the same level for the planning and set ups etc of the Galway store, the Cork store, three of the Dublin stores and the Belfast stores, as well as back home in Liverpool, and in all of those cities I was met with representives who came prepared to answer any questions I might throw at them, had plenty of questions and suggestions of their own, and who were out to promote why their city was the right location for a new store.

Limerick reminds me a lot of living in Liverpool in many ways, which is why I used the Liverpool One project as an example, and I really do think that Limerick could have an Irish version of Liverpool One if the right people were in place to deal with companies who have an interest in coming to Limerick, and also the right people in that they are pro active in seeking out companies.

Limerick reminding me somewhat of Liverpool is also probably why I ended up coming back to live here when I changed jobs and took a position in Ireland. I think a lot of my criticism of Limerick comes from frustration, as I, like many others, can see so much potential in Limerick to be a cracking place, but instead it gets a mixture of people who like their names in the paper running it and promoting it, rather than people who want it to actually be great and have the know how to push it along in the right direction step by step..

panda100

My favourtie time to go into Limerick is Saturday morning for the Market. It's one of the best markets I've been to in any Irish city. The Cork and Galway markets go on till 6pm on Saturdays creating a real busstling feel to the citys. Why does Limericks market close before 1pm?Whose even up at that time on a Saturday?!

kilburn

panda100 wrote: »

My favourtie time to go into Limerick is Saturday morning for the Market. It's one of the best markets I've been to in any Irish city. The Cork and Galway markets go on till 6pm on Saturdays creating a real busstling feel to the citys. Why does Limericks market close before 1pm?Whose even up at that time on a Saturday?!

I think its open till 4 on Saturdays now and 7 on fridays

Amazotheamazing

panda100 wrote: »

My favourtie time to go into Limerick is Saturday morning for the Market. It's one of the best markets I've been to in any Irish city. The Cork and Galway markets go on till 6pm on Saturdays creating a real busstling feel to the citys. Why does Limericks market close before 1pm?Whose even up at that time on a Saturday?!

Think the market is open later now it's been done up?

panda100

Oh excellent must check that out.

LoganRice

Limerick's city boundaries have been laid out in a terrible way. It's probably busier in the Crescent shopping centre than in the actual city of Limerick. Think about it, there is no cinema in Limerick city, no shopping centre that is actually worth going into for over 2 hours in Limerick city, and all the reasonably large retail shops are located in suburbs almost as big as Limerick city itself.
If there was a boundary change, that would put Limerick city's population over the 150k Mark, with about 200,000 people in the urban area with a catchmenr if about half a million people.
I live in Limerick city, I like it, but tbh I sent most of my time in Dooradoyle in the crescent shopping centre.

zuroph

LoganRice wrote: »

Limerick's city boundaries have been laid out in a terrible way. It's probably busier in the Crescent shopping centre than in the actual city of Limerick. Think about it, there is no cinema in Limerick city, no shopping centre that is actually worth going into for over 2 hours in Limerick city, and all the reasonably large retail shops are located in suburbs almost as big as Limerick city itself.
If there was a boundary change, that would put Limerick city's population over the 150k Mark, with about 200,000 people in the urban area with a catchmenr if about half a million people.
I live in Limerick city, I like it, but tbh I sent most of my time in Dooradoyle in the crescent shopping centre.

by gum he's right!!! How did none of us ever think of this?!

One council to run the lot, only way to solve it.

dave 27

i totally agree, these suburbs of Limerick outside the boundary are so big they now have to be seen as suburban TOWNS, as opposed to suburbs, dooradoyle/raheen and castletroy have a population bigger than the city itself..they are totally dependant on themselves having at least 2 big shopping centress, restaurants, pubs, cinemas, even a university..

these TOWNS are taking from the city and the focus needs to be reversed (while facilitating for these people with police stations and fire stations), so that these huge numbers will come back into the city again like it was 20 yers ago

LoganRice

Castletroy has more people than Ennis lol

dave 27

ya castletroy has around 32,000 and the dooradoyle/raheen area has anywhere between 22-30,000 depending on how far out you go so you could say two of them are bigger!