good post training drink supplement ?

Seres

since traning started For HM ,i notice that my joints seem to be aching alot more and for alot longer , have been trying to do more stretching , core work etc , however feel i need some supplement to add recovery , repair muscle and replace trace elements , between powerbar and high 5 ( the ones i checked ) there seem to be so many overlapping products , would appreciate recommendation here on what is the best one ?

apologies if this sort of question has been asked before

woodchopper

A cup of tea. If its good enough for the Kenyans its good enough for us.

Sport101

Double chocolate protein shake. Its like a daily 4th meal.

Seres

woodchopper wrote: »

A cup of tea. If its good enough for the Kenyans its good enough for us.

dont know if my joints will last too well on a cup of tea as a recovery drink , try it out yourself and let me know how your body is holdin up in 20 yrs ( thats assuming you keep up a rigourish enough training regime )

tunguska

Ive found maca to be amazing stuff for recovery. Been using it for a couple of months now and Ive been able to bounce back from very hard sessions immediately.

http://www.macaguru.com/maca-sport

Although it does have other, eh, benifits..........

Heres the brand I use

http://www.evergreen.ie/saras-choice-maca/p-199313pd.aspx?gclid=CNXs6cK2wKMCFd392AodHgrGeQ


If you decide to try it get the gelantized form, its way easier to digest.

MrCreosote

Milk. Half a litre straight after the long runs, then get the next half down over an hour. Seriously! Protein, sugar, fat, fluid and not too expensive.

And you'll support our local farmers as opposed to some evil multinational food corp!

Sport101

MrCreosote wrote: »

Milk. Half a litre straight after the long runs, then get the next half down over an hour. Seriously! Protein, sugar, fat, fluid and not too expensive.

And you'll support our local farmers as opposed to some evil multinational food corp!

Are you Paul O'Connell by any chance?

frankeee

http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/runrr.htm

menoscemo

Mars Refuel perfect ratio of carbs- protein. Barring that (it can be difficult to find) any chocolate (or strawberry/banana) milk you can find such as yazoo or avonmore...

Krusty_Clown

frankeee wrote: »

http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/runrr.htm

I'd be the same. Chocolate slim-fast made with low fat milk after a long or very intensive run, followed by a home-made sports isotonic drink (70% water, 30% fruit juice, tablespoon of chia seeds, pinch of salt, 1/2 teaspoon of sugar), soon followed by a proper meal. I don't lose much weight, but that's not really the point.

I guess the OP is looking for something different though, e.g. cod-liver oil, Glucosamine/chrondoitin, to aid with sore joints etc.

RacoonQueen

Do you take any joint supplements seres? Maybe you could look into the ones like KC mentioned.

I generally use either provon revive or mars refuel.

gerard65

Beer:)

Seres

frankeee wrote: »

http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/runrr.htm

thought you were joking first bout the slim fast , will try that as a recovery drink so

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Do you take any joint supplements seres? Maybe you could look into the ones like KC mentioned.

I generally use either provon revive or mars refuel.

hey racoonqueen , have started takin the jointace clondrotin and glucosamine , anything else i need to watch out for , omega 3 probably ?

HardyEustace

Chocolate milk has the perfect ratio of carbs to protein. I heard that it's what the irish rugby team has after training but I stand to be corrected on that.

If you've sore joints then I'd consider a cod liver oil supplement or maybe a tablespoon of walnut oil in the morning (if you can stomach it, after throwing up in my mouth three times, I decided it wasn't for me).

Otherwise a lot of people swear by glucosamine. You can buy it in Aldi

Seres

HardyEustace wrote: »

Chocolate milk has the perfect ratio of carbs to protein. I heard that it's what the irish rugby team has after training but I stand to be corrected on that.

If you've sore joints then I'd consider a cod liver oil supplement or maybe a tablespoon of walnut oil in the morning (if you can stomach it, after throwing up in my mouth three times, I decided it wasn't for me).

Otherwise a lot of people swear by glucosamine. You can buy it in Aldi

was doin the choc drink but with drinkin choc and milk , prob not the right carb to protein ratio , regards glucosamine , do they sell in lidl too and does it have clondrotin too in it ?

nerraw1111

I've tried in Sports in Sciene Re Go, chocolate favour.

It's not bad. Felt good afterwards but such things are very hard to quantify. Tastes ok as long as you make it with milk

Sport101

HardyEustace wrote: »

Chocolate milk has the perfect ratio of carbs to protein. I heard that it's what the irish rugby team has after training but I stand to be corrected on that.

If you've sore joints then I'd consider a cod liver oil supplement or maybe a tablespoon of walnut oil in the morning (if you can stomach it, after throwing up in my mouth three times, I decided it wasn't for me).

Otherwise a lot of people swear by glucosamine. You can buy it in Aldi

You'd want to be drinking a lot of milk, 100mls of milk has only 3g of protein or thereabouts and as an endurance athlete, per day, you should be taking on at least 1 times your kg weight in terms of grammes of protein.
Whey protein (best powder) is absorbed far easier by the muscles than cow's milk protein. Of course you can get this from other sources- meat, veg, fish etc as well, although after watching Hugh Fearnely Whittingstall examine the actual protein content of chicken breasts in supermarkets I wouldn't bank on them either.

HardyEustace

Sport101 wrote: »

Whey protein (best powder) is absorbed far easier by the muscles than cow's milk protein. Of course you can get this from other sources- meat, veg, fish etc as well, although after watching Hugh Fearnely Whittingstall examine the actual protein content of chicken breasts in supermarkets I wouldn't bank on them either.

Thanks for that.

In terms of the protein content of the chicken breasts, I know HFW normally shows the bad quality of cheaper meat. I presume that if you buy free range chicken breast that the protein content would be far superior.

opus

Chocolate soya milk is my drink of choice after a run, not really a fan of ordinary milk despite coming from a farming background.

jfh

another from a farming background who doesn't like milk.paul o connell would not be happy! altought that maca certainly sounds interesting, tunguska where do you get it?

woodchopper

Seres wrote: »

dont know if my joints will last too well on a cup of tea as a recovery drink , try it out yourself and let me know how your body is holdin up in 20 yrs ( thats assuming you keep up a rigourish enough training regime )

I stand to be corrected but I would have thought that if the Kenyans think tea is a good recovery tool than maybe it would be good enough for everybody else. I could be wrong plus maybe the Kenyans dont train as hard as the runners on boards ie.

ecoli

woodchopper wrote: »

I stand to be corrected but I would have thought that if the Kenyans think tea is a good recovery tool than maybe it would be good enough for everybody else. I could be wrong plus maybe the Kenyans dont train as hard as the runners on boards ie.

The Kenyans also are training on trails compared to paths / tarmac, have built up the muscles used for running from the early years as opposed to many boardies (and other runners) who only take it up in there teens and later. And come to think of it can remember any article when a Kenyan has said that they drank tea for its recovery attributes as opposed to just liking tea (could be wrong on this)

AdamAntsy

I found that an ice bath after long runs helped ease muscle and joint pain - just pick up a bag of ice in the off-license on the way home and jump in, wear a jumper and the aforementioned cup of tea to ease the chill. Sounds harder than it is, and it's mighty refreshing especially if you run at this time of year. Lovely once you're in

Trick is to get the water level right, not too high!

Seres

AdamAntsy wrote: »

I found that an ice bath after long runs helped ease muscle and joint pain - just pick up a bag of ice in the off-license on the way home and jump in, wear a jumper and the aforementioned cup of tea to ease the chill. Sounds harder than it is, and it's mighty refreshing especially if you run at this time of year. Lovely once you're in

Trick is to get the water level right, not too high!

when are you suppose to take an icebath/warm bath in terms of training ?

tunguska

jfh wrote: »

another from a farming background who doesn't like milk.paul o connell would not be happy! altought that maca certainly sounds interesting, tunguska where do you get it?

I get mine from nourish on wicklow street in the city centre. But you can also order it from peru(where its grown):

www.urpimaca.com

Seres wrote: »

when are you suppose to take an icebath/warm bath in terms of training ?

Ice baths after training. Theyre very good for stiffness and soreness in muscles.

MisterAdam

I'm a big fan of going to the sauna after a run. Whenever bad weather forces me to the gym, I always pop in for a bit and follow it up with a cold shower. Not sure about the health benefits but theoretically it could aid recovery by increasing circulation to your peripheries without taxing them. Mainly though it's nice and relaxing.

Seres

tunguska wrote: »

I

Ice baths after training. Theyre very good for stiffness and soreness in muscles.

thanks tunguska , are warm baths not good for athletes any more , god we are suckers for punishment , striped of all our comforts

does ice bath really mean with loads of ice or will cold do the trick ?

how long are you expected to stay in for ?

tunguska

Seres wrote: »

thanks tunguska , are warm baths not good for athletes any more , god we are suckers for punishment , striped of all our comforts

does ice bath really mean with loads of ice or will cold do the trick ?

how long are you expected to stay in for ?

Im not sure about warm baths, maybe they are beneficial. All I know is that ice baths really do the trick. I take them after a long run or a really hard speed session. Run a cold bath, then throw in 2 big bags of ice, sit in it for 20minutes(summertime) 15minutes(winter). My local Dunnes stores sells the bags of ice for 90cent so its a fairly cheap way to relieve muscle soreness. I'll admit in winter the ice baths can be tough going but at this time of the year, after a long run, I'll look forward to a nice sit down in the ice for a while. As for comfort, well you're allowed wear a wolly hat in winter........

TFBubendorfer

Seres wrote: »

thanks tunguska , are warm baths not good for athletes any more

I definitely remember reading a few times that taking a warm bath immediately after an intensive training session increases the recovery time.

Hasn't stopped me from jumping into the bathtub on occasions, though. Sometimes you just need that.

Seres

tunguska wrote: »

Im not sure about warm baths, maybe they are beneficial. All I know is that ice baths really do the trick. I take them after a long run or a really hard speed session. Run a cold bath, then throw in 2 big bags of ice, sit in it for 20minutes(summertime) 15minutes(winter). My local Dunnes stores sells the bags of ice for 90cent so its a fairly cheap way to relieve muscle soreness. I'll admit in winter the ice baths can be tough going but at this time of the year, after a long run, I'll look forward to a nice sit down in the ice for a while. As for comfort, well you're allowed wear a wolly hat in winter........

how long after session do you need to do that ?, for me i wouldnt get time till bout three hours after

tunguska

Seres wrote: »

how long after session do you need to do that ?, for me i wouldnt get time till bout three hours after

Im not 100% sure how soon after training is the optimal time to have an ice bath. Most of the time I'll jump in straight away as soon as I finish the run but sometimes thats not possible and Ive only gotten around to it hours later. Still does the job though, better late than never.

Heres an article from runnersworld about them:


http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-241-285--12810-0,00.html

Seres

tunguska wrote: »

Im not 100% sure how soon after training is the optimal time to have an ice bath. Most of the time I'll jump in straight away as soon as I finish the run but sometimes thats not possible and Ive only gotten around to it hours later. Still does the job though, better late than never.

Heres an article from runnersworld about them:


http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-241-285--12810-0,00.html

thanks , good article , too valid questions they had at bottom by some people reading that i thought about while reading , can you get benefits from an ice bath a day after hard session ? and are their similar benefits from cold water ? freezin or gettin big bags of ice after training could be tricky if you have a time contraint

Krusty_Clown

Seres wrote: »

thanks , good article , too valid questions they had at bottom by some people reading that i thought about while reading , can you get benefits from an ice bath a day after hard session ? and are their similar benefits from cold water ? freezin or gettin big bags of ice after training could be tricky if you have a time contraint

I use cold tap-water (it's definitely a lot colder in winter though!) and find it aids recovery, though I doubt it's quite as useful as a proper ice bath. If you have a local lake or sea, that'll do the job, any time of year.

tunguska

Seres wrote: »

thanks , good article , too valid questions they had at bottom by some people reading that i thought about while reading , can you get benefits from an ice bath a day after hard session ? and are their similar benefits from cold water ?

I think the only way you'll find out if you get the benefits of an ice bath the day after or several hours after training is to try it out for yourself, see what happens.

Seres wrote: »

freezin or gettin big bags of ice after training could be tricky if you have a time contraint

Buy them in advance and store them in the freezer of your fridge(if your freezer compartment is big enough of course). I buy 2 bags at a time, chuck them into the freezer and use 'em when I need 'em.

A foam roller would do a good job on sore muscles aswell so you might not have to go down the road of ice baths at all.

shels4ever

Seres wrote: »

thanks tunguska , are warm baths not good for athletes any more , god we are suckers for punishment , striped of all our comforts

does ice bath really mean with loads of ice or will cold do the trick ?

how long are you expected to stay in for ?

I was talking to one guy before who avised me on the benifit of warm baths, he was an irish internationl so must have worked for him.

gerard65

shels4ever wrote: »

I was talking to one guy before who avised me on the benifit of warm baths, he was an irish internationl so must have worked for him.

Is the theory behind the ice bath to stop the 'pooling' of blood around the micro damage in muscle fibers which allows for more rapid healing? I'd say a warm bath would do the opposite.

woodchopper

ecoli wrote: »

The Kenyans also are training on trails compared to paths / tarmac, have built up the muscles used for running from the early years as opposed to many boardies (and other runners) who only take it up in there teens and later. And come to think of it can remember any article when a Kenyan has said that they drank tea for its recovery attributes as opposed to just liking tea (could be wrong on this)

Mark Kiptoo stated in an audio interview that tea is the best drink to take after a run. He also only took up running when he was twenty nine so he had not the years of training behind him and the last time I checked most trails in Ireland are of soft surface. Again could be wrong.

MisterAdam

I don't know whether taking a certain drink will help you recover more quickly but I do know that tea is almost certainly a bad idea. The reason being that tea and to a lesser extent coffee are pretty good at decreasing the amount of iron absorbed from the gut.
Now usually that isn't a problem. For most people, nutritional iron deficiency is next to impossible. Unless you're a vegan, a modern western diet contains more than enough iron to keep you choc-full of red cells. However serious runners have higher iron requirements that most. And coupled with poor absorption, this could easily cause iron deficiency.
Apparently iron deficiency is quite common among high mileage runners. This is super true for female runners who, for some reason, decide to aggravate matters by bleeding from their vaginas for one week in every month. Sheesh!
So unless you know that you have good iron stores and that you're not anaemic, tea isn't a sensible recovery drink.

Krusty_Clown

woodchopper wrote: »

Mark Kiptoo stated in an audio interview that tea is the best drink to take after a run. He also only took up running when he was twenty nine so he had not the years of training behind him and the last time I checked most trails in Ireland are of soft surface. Again could be wrong.

Can you provide a nutritional breakdown of the benefits of tea? You do realize that the Kenyans may not have anything more beneficial available in terms of recovery, than tea?

Most Irish people don't spend most of their time on trails.

thirtyfoot

People are poo pooing the idea of tea but not questioning ice baths. The sports science wisdom is that they have no effect on recovery and have more of a placebo effect. So if you feel tea helps or ice baths help, go for it. Good warm down, eat within 30-60mins usually do the trick for recovery. Same as usual, simple and wisdom that has been around for years and doesn't cost money. Key to warm down: Finish your warmdown the way you want to feel when you start your next session.

Good balance diet will help too. If you are an old fart maybe a few pills for the joints with glucosamine.

If I was given the choice of tea or an icebath, I'd take tea unless I was allowed drink the water in the bath.

AdamAntsy

Its a good point Tingle, as with many things in Sports Science there is anecdotal or just plain wrong 'facts' out there and should always be taken with liberal salt. If they were as proven as, say, interval training, then it would be pretty standard and every running club would have the old wheelie bins with ice after hard or long sessions.

I just always viewed it as the same as a large ice-pack applied to sore joints and muscles to relieve swelling and damage. I guess if you have a separate shower you could have a cycle of ice-warm-ice-warm in order to try and pump blood in and out of the muscle to remove metabolic wastes, again no idea if there is proof that is any better than your regular circulation.

I agree its kinda funny that it's more acceptable than the cup of tea though!! Your warm down sounds like the best advice if not being done already.

dna_leri

Tingle wrote: »

If you are an old fart maybe a few pills for the joints with glucosamine.

eh, where's the scientific evidence that glucosamine is good for joints and any better than a placebo ?
I think the jury is still out.

But if a few Keynans take it, then it must be good, mustn't it ?

thirtyfoot

dna_leri wrote: »

eh, where's the scientific evidence that glucosamine is good for joints and any better than a placebo ?
I think the jury is still out.

But if a few Keynans take it, then it must be good, mustn't it ?

Do Kenyans take Glucosamine?

As I said for ice baths and tea, if it works for you, go for it. Glucosamine stops me from waking my wife up in the morning with clicking joints when walking to the bathroom across the wooden floor. When I don't take it, she wakes up to the noise of my knees and ankles clicking. The placebo helps her sleep.

Its a case of whatever works for you. Tea could work. Ice baths could work. A raw egg when you hop out of bed could work. Blessing yourself when you are called to the line could work. Wearing the same socks for the big race could work. Sitting in the same place in the dressing room before every training session could work. Warming down properly could work. Eating in the golden hour could work. A rub every week could work. Going out hard could work. Going out easy could work. A kebab every friday could work. Staring the bejaysus of your rivals could work. Keeping the head down and focussed could work. If it works for you, go for it.

Thing is a cup of tea versus an ice bath. An ice bath sounds much more hardcore so that must be better.

Krusty_Clown

Tingle wrote: »

People are poo pooing the idea of tea but not questioning ice baths.

The suggestion of an ice-bath is not an alternative to a post training drink supplement, but in fact is complimentary, whereas tea is an implied alternative. So even if the ice bath is doing you absolutely no good at all, at least it doesn't come at the cost of carbohydrates, protein and essential fats that you might otherwise have ingested.

Sorry to bring science into the discussion, but:
Black tea, made with tap water (237g serving size):
Calories: 2
Total fat: 0%
Cholestrol: 0%
Sodium: 0%
Carbohydrate: 0%
Protein: 0%
Vitamin A: 0%
Vitamin C: 0%
Calcium: 0%
Iron: 0%
You could add a bit of milk to your tea, which would definitely improve the stats, but then you might as well skip the tea and just have the milk.

Tea does contain beneficial anti-oxidants, however, you are better off sticking to green rather than black tea. It is absolutely a case of 'what works for the individual' but there's no harm in letting a few facts into the discussion.

thirtyfoot

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

The suggestion of an ice-bath is not an alternative to a post training drink supplement, but in fact is complimentary, whereas tea is an implied alternative. So even if the ice bath is doing you absolutely no good at all, at least it doesn't come at the cost of carbohydrates, protein and essential fats that you might otherwise have ingested.

Sorry to bring science into the discussion, but:
Black tea, made with tap water (237g serving size):
Calories: 2
Total fat: 0%
Cholestrol: 0%
Sodium: 0%
Carbohydrate: 0%
Protein: 0%
Vitamin A: 0%
Vitamin C: 0%
Calcium: 0%
Iron: 0%
You could add a bit of milk to your tea, which would definitely improve the stats, but then you might as well skip the tea and just have the milk.

Tea does contain beneficial anti-oxidants, however, you are better off sticking to green rather than black tea. It is absolutely a case of 'what works for the individual' but there's no harm in letting a few facts into the discussion.

I thought people might be suggesting an ice bath as an alternative to hydrating properly post-training. If not, then ice bath away while sipping away on a hot cuppa.

tunguska

Seres wrote: »

thanks , good article , too valid questions they had at bottom by some people reading that i thought about while reading , can you get benefits from an ice bath a day after hard session ? and are their similar benefits from cold water ? freezin or gettin big bags of ice after training could be tricky if you have a time contraint

Actually I forgot about these...........


http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/clothing/tights-longs-and-leggings/product/sport-long-tights-32274

I started wearing these a few months ago and they really work. I used to be taking literally one ice bath/day until I got these, now Im only in the ice once or twice a week(although during the summer the ice baths are very welcome for cooling purposes alone).
You just put them on after training and thats it. You can wear them under your regular clothes, theyre breathable and very cooling, you wont overheat with them on under a pair of tracksuit bottoms or jeans(Dont know about wearing them under a dress though, that might look a little strange......but what do I know about fashion).
They cost about 90-100euro, worth it though, they'll last you for ages.

woodchopper

I have noticed from the posters on here the problems that their running careers are causing. Too many gadgets and sports science nonsense going on here. Garmins, protein shakes, ice baths, pacing, bla bla bla. The concept of running is to just go out there and run, listening to your body not the bleedin garmin. Same with recovery good warm down, stretch and good quality meal within an hour simply. No need for this magic protein shake that will transform you into a sub 13 5k guy. Some perspective is needed.

Krusty_Clown

Much the same as Tingle's glucosamine and chrondoitin (which I used to take until my supply ran out; let's face it, I'll take any old witch-doctor medicine at all, as long as there's some promise of faith healing at the end of it (just added green tea to my list ) I take cold baths after a long run (20 miles+). I think the benefit may be akin to pinching your wrist when you cut your finger (heading off the pain receptors further up the message chain?).

While there seems to be little by the way of science, applying ice to injuries, swellings and niggles is so generally accepted (remember when you bumped your head when you were a kid?) that you can't help but think that it's a fundamental truth, like avoiding staring at the sun as it's not good for your eyes. Maybe someday ice packs/baths will prove to have been just an embarrassing and uncomfortable waste of time, but until then, i'll continue to ice my knee and achilles, and hop into a cold bath after 20 miles of running.

Krusty_Clown

woodchopper wrote: »

I have noticed from the posters on here the problems that their running careers are causing. Too many gadgets and sports science nonsense going on here. Garmins, protein shakes, ice baths, pacing, bla bla bla. The concept of running is to just go out there and run, listening to your body not the bleedin garmin. Same with recovery good warm down, stretch and good quality meal within an hour simply. No need for this magic protein shake that will transform you into a sub 13 5k guy. Some perspective is needed.

Tea not on your recommended list any more?

Sport101

Yeah feck science, not a thing to be learnt from it.

tunguska

woodchopper wrote: »

I have noticed from the posters on here the problems that their running careers are causing. Too many gadgets and sports science nonsense going on here. Garmins, protein shakes, ice baths, pacing, bla bla bla. The concept of running is to just go out there and run, listening to your body not the bleedin garmin. Same with recovery good warm down, stretch and good quality meal within an hour simply. No need for this magic protein shake that will transform you into a sub 13 5k guy. Some perspective is needed.

I used to be of the same opinion woodchopper but unfortunately Ive found that the harder I train and the more volume I add, the more it takes a toll on my body. Id love to go out, just run, do a few stretches, eat a good meal and leave it at that. And I tried it that way, but it just didnt work out, I was constantly exhausted and suffering from sore muscles.
Theres no hard scientific evidence to support the use of ice baths, compression gear etc but like Krusty said, when something works you just know. I can only speak for myself and my direct experience and for me I tried it the old school/low tech way but it just wasnt enough, the extras like icebaths, recovery gear, nutritional supplements, have made a difference.