Run in with neighbour

ronn

My brother rang a farmer that has land leased to let him know we were going out for woodies and crows. He said belt away dont park in the yard park on the side road, Off we set off belted a few birds for a few hours, Arrived back to the jeep to see a note on the windscreen "Land preserved no shooting" by order and signed by the owner of the land,
So the brother rang the farmer that has the land leased, He said bring down the note,
So it turns out a man living next to the field put the note on the jeep,
the land is beside a small shoot and pheasants stray onto the land and the man in question has feeders is his back garden to hold the birds there for himself and doesnt want anyone else shooting HIS pheasants come november,

The farmer told us to park in the yard in future and keep banging away,

The brother has been shooting vermin on the land for 3 years and has shot 2 pheasants if even that,
Debating now to put up hoopers and go out as much as we can come november. Not to shoot every or any pheasants just to piss your man off,:D

Dusty87

I dont know what id do. Id be pissed alright and immediate reaction would be to piss him off but i dont think it be the best move. Edit, did landowner actually sign the letter or did he forge signature or what?

homerhop

Might be worth your while just getting the farmer who has the land leased to pass comment to the actual property owner that he has lads in shooting crows and woodies for him.

ronn

the neighbour forged the signature, the farmer that leased the land told us that, the owner of the farm has nothing to do with the land just wants to see the rent in his bank, dont think he even lives in the same county,,

jap gt

if it was the land owner that signed the note, he has every right to put ye off the land, the man leasing the land wouldnt have many rights regarding the shooting i would imagine

edit just saw your second post. shoot away so, he has no rights

johngalway

This is rather confusing.

Does either the farmer who leases the land OR the man who wrote the note actually own the land? Or does a third party own the land?

If the land owner told me to go, I'd go for a chat and try to change their minds. If it's some busy body who has no rights to the land ye shoot what so ever I would ignore the note, ignore the person, not escalate the situation and carry on as ye always have.

landkeeper

just tread carefully the lad who has the land leased dosn't have the right to give you permission to shoot on the land unless he has taken the shooting rights too
you could find yourself in deep water on that one if the landowner Has given the lad who wrote the note the shooting rights , you could actually lose your gun liscence unless you have that land listed on your permissions

4gun

He probably had no right to put note on car, might have assumed you were a couple of chancers there with out permission,
If he's feeding the birds and keeping a good stock in the area of course he wants to keep them for him self.....wouldn't you
why not explain to him your doing him a favour by keeping controll of the vermin in the area
If he refused to listen, call your mates on the 1st Nov and head down....:P

ronn

johngalway wrote: »

This is rather confusing.

Does either the farmer who leases the land OR the man who wrote the note actually own the land? Or does a third party own the land?

If the land owner told me to go, I'd go for a chat and try to change their minds. If it's some busy body who has no rights to the land ye shoot what so ever I would ignore the note, ignore the person, not escalate the situation and carry on as ye always have.

3rd party owns the land but has no interest in what goes on,, he ll go with what the leasee says on the matter,,

ronn

4gun wrote: »

He probably had no right to put note on car, might have assumed you were a couple of chancers there with out permission,
If he's feeding the birds and keeping a good stock in the area of course he wants to keep them for him self.....wouldn't you
why not explain to him your doing him a favour by keeping controll of the vermin in the area
If he refused to listen, call your mates on the 1st Nov and head down....:P

No he doesnt have any hoppers on the land only in his back garden which joins onto the field, he has no gate/entrance into the field. he doesnt rear birds just relys on strays for the local shoot,

bunny shooter

As I read it .....................

1. The landowner obviously doesn't care so he's out of the equation for now.

2. The lad who is leasing the land doesn't mind/wants the vermin shot and we can assume doesn't mind the game being shot either.

3. The lad who's raising the pheasants obviously doesn't appreciate someone else shooting the birds he's spent time & money on (*Edit: the cheap-skate feeding 'em once someone else paid for 'em). He doesn't seem to be shooting the vermin though? He's leaving notes and kind of forging owners signature :eek:

4. The O/P and his friend are shooting the vermin and have shot a few pheasants with leasees permission.

So who's right & who's wrong

Typical situation replicated all over the country in my experience :rolleyes:

*Edit: In light of further posts ................ shoot vermin & any pheasants !

johngalway

ronn wrote: »

3rd party owns the land but has no interest in what goes on,, he ll go with what the leasee says on the matter,,

OK, does the fella who put the note on your window have any rights to the shooting on the land? He doesn't own it, and if he doesn't have the shooting rights then he can't say diddly to ye about what and what not to shoot, to my thinking anyway. That said, I wouldn't go out of my way to piss him off, people can be funny and pissing off works both ways.

johngalway

bunny shooter wrote: »

As I read it .....................

1. The landowner obviously doesn't care so he's out of the equation for now.

2. The lad who is leasing the land doesn't mind/wants the vermin shot and we can assume doesn't mind the game being shot either.

3. The lad who's raising the pheasants obviously doesn't appreciate someone else shooting the birds he's spent time & money on. He doesn't seem to be shooting the vermin though? He's leaving notes and kind of forging owners signature :eek:

4. The O/P and his friend are shooting the vermin and have shot a few pheasants with leasees permission.

So who's right & who's wrong

Typical situation replicated all over the country in my experience :rolleyes:

Think the question is, who own's the pheasants once they stray off the land of the person who's reared them?

I'd likely stay away from shooting someone elses pheasants TBH, though I CAN see the temptation if the lad rearing them doesn't do any vermin control.

landkeeper

well if it were me i'd be contacting the OWNER of the land and asking him rather than taking someone elses word for it as i said before you could come very unstuck on that one IF the landowner has given the shooting rights to the neighbour or even told him no-one else has permission to shoot there

4gun

ronn wrote: »

No he doesnt have any hoppers on the land only in his back garden which joins onto the field, he has no gate/entrance into the field. he doesnt rear birds just relys on strays for the local shoot,

he don't own wild bird! so any one can shoot them once the have game permission
Also remember sometimes the owner might not necessary have the game rights, they might belong to local club or whatever..

ronn

johngalway wrote: »

OK, does the fella who put the note on your window have any rights to the shooting on the land? He doesn't own it, and if he doesn't have the shooting rights then he can't say diddly to ye about what and what not to shoot, to my thinking anyway. That said, I wouldn't go out of my way to piss him off, people can be funny and pissing off works both ways.

dont think he has any rights to shoot the land, we only use the land to shoot woodies and would be lucky to get out on the land during pheasant season. so we could just walk away and shoot elsewhere, but dont want to be run off the land by him either and dont want to cause any hassles either, catch 22:D

he doesent rare the birds they stray onto the land from a driven shoot 2 miles away,

landkeeper

you don't think he has any rights but don't want to be run off the land by him either :rolleyes:
then find out who the landowner is and talk to him would seem like the sensible thing to do , i'd go see the lad involved too might just save a bit of hassle in the future

jap gt

landkeeper wrote: »

you don't think he has any rights but don't want to be run off the land by him either :rolleyes:
then find out who the landowner is and talk to him would seem like the sensible thing to do , i'd go see the lad involved too might just save a bit of hassle in the future

i think the op said the land owner is out of the country, but i agree that you should go and talk to the man he could be a reasonable lad once he knows ye arent after 'his' birds

ronn

landkeeper wrote: »

you don't think he has any rights but don't want to be run off the land by him either :rolleyes:
then find out who the landowner is and talk to him would seem like the sensible thing to do , i'd go see the lad involved too might just save a bit of hassle in the future

well dont want to leave my jeep parked up and return to 4 flat tyres or worse,that sort of thing would cause hassles:D

we were shooting 150 yards from jeep, so why didnt he come into the field and see what we were up to,,,, this is what im thinking in my lil grey matter,

landkeeper

county ;)the telephone is a wonderfull invention

landkeeper

put your self in his shoes two lads park up on the side of the road and go off and are banging away , would you go walking over to them to confront them on your own ?, anyway if it were me i'd allways get permission from the LANDOWNER not anyone else then you know you are in the right rather than thinking you are it's rather embarrasing standing there saying joe bloggs gave me permission to shoot here and then you find out he had no right to even let you in the gate
been there got the t shirt

kieran1141

landkeeper wrote: »

put your self in his shoes two lads park up on the side of the road and go off and are banging away , would you go walking over to them to confront them on your own ?, anyway if it were me i'd allways get permission from the LANDOWNER not anyone else then you know you are in the right rather than thinking you are it's rather embarrasing standing there saying joe bloggs gave me permission to shoot here and then you find out he had no right to even let you in the gate
been there got the t shirt

landowner is right, i shoot a few thousand acers of corn for farmers and on land that is leased have to get permission from landowner aswell and in one case the land owner rings the local gunclub [of which i am not a member] to tell them i will be shooting crows and pigeons, but does not entitle me to shoot pheasants or ducks on stubble, as gun club have it for that,,,,, shooting rights belong to the landowner not the the farmer who has lease 99% of the time.

Dusty87

Does it depend on contract though? I wouldn know but how many lads leasin actually ask for shootin rights? Is it common?

kieran1141

Dusty87 wrote: »

Does it depend on contract though? I wouldn know but how many lads leasin actually ask for shootin rights? Is it common?

well i can onely speak for around north tipp around a 30 mile radius none of the farmers give up the shooting rights, anyway farmers are not usually interested in the shooting rights when leasing, the 6 or 7 i deal with that are leasing land have there own land aswell and would not even give it to a club, if you shoot pigeons and crows over standing corn for them dont usually have a problem with what you shoot after that. few of the farmers that i would be friends with feel a bit bullied by some clubs, 1 young farmer told me if he did'nt let club put signs up his parents who are in there 80's would get eyes thrown at them at mass on sunday, sounds stupid but that goes on, not saying that clubs are like that but a few small parish clubs can make things akward for people, another farmer told me if was not left alone he would put up no shooting signs and keep everyone out.

kieran1141

kieran1141 wrote: »

well i can onely speak for around north tipp around a 30 mile radius none of the farmers give up the shooting rights, anyway farmers are not usually interested in the shooting rights when leasing, the 6 or 7 i deal with that are leasing land have there own land aswell and would not even give it to a club, if you shoot pigeons and crows over standing corn for them dont usually have a problem with what you shoot after that. few of the farmers that i would be friends with feel a bit bullied by some clubs, 1 young farmer told me if he did'nt let club put signs up his parents who are in there 80's would get eyes thrown at them at mass on sunday, sounds stupid but that goes on, not saying that clubs are like that but a few small parish clubs can make things akward for people, another farmer told me if was not left alone he would put up no shooting signs and keep everyone out.

and before i get attacked by every club in ireland, iam onely talking about my experience i a small area with 7 clubs where 1 or 2 of them are loosing the run of themselves.

bunny shooter

kieran1141 wrote: »

and before i get attacked by every club in ireland, iam onely talking about my experience i a small area with 7 clubs where 1 or 2 of them are loosing the run of themselves.

You will find it is usually a small percentage of a club's membership that are the problem but the whole club and/or all shooters will/may suffer for it

kieran1141

bunny shooter wrote: »

You will find it is usually a small percentage of a club's membership that are the problem but the whole club and/or all shooters will/may suffer for it

sorry about that, but that what i meant to say its usually onely 2 or 3 and there the very 1's that dont turn up for vermin shoots or even meetings, just cause trouble for the club, i think clubs are a good thing, cant go the club myself to much fighting over stupid things and when you have a clay shoot or vermin shoot onely the same few turn up to help thats just where i am anyway. there is a few wounderful clubs here but closed doors to anyone now, suppose i dont blame them in a way .

hurley267

Your dead right man belt away. maybe not putting your own hoppers own breeding birds is alot of work! every clubman knows that! but you would be well within your rights to belt away with the dogs at 8 o clock on the first of november id do the same!

He made the first move with that not so you make the second with a 32g 7 up one of the pheasants arses!lol!

And put a tail feather under the wiper of his car just to piss him off!:D

cavan shooter

Go have a chat with him or have the farmer you know have a chat...do you really want to fall, he might be sound you wont know untill you meet him I remember 2 years ago shooting on land I have permission to shoot and am a member of the club and came back to find a message on my Jeep saying "Go back to Cavan"

Unfortunately in life your always will meet Gob****€s, you may have met one but untill you talk to him you dont really know

Sometimes I cry when i hear some of the gems of diplomacy you hear from Lads

LordDorington

Our neighbour who has an aviary built at the end of his garden has threatened to shoot my cats if they go into his garden. I tried being reasonable and telling him that unlike dogs, cats cannot be trained to not go into someone elses garden. I have also said to him in the past that I dont mind im throwing a ball or something at them if they climb on the aviary, to deter them but the other day he started screaming that he would shoot them if they came in again. I live in a rough area and I woudl not be surprised if he has a pellet gun, or if he put down poison for them.

What I am wondering is, do you need a license to keep birds (he has about a hundred racing pigeons)? He is in a council house so would he be allowed to construct an aviary down the back of his garden? Its a big concrete outhouse type thing.

Police as usual were useless, telling me they wouldnt come out in case he became agitated when he saw their car!

diveshark

LordDorington wrote: »

Our neighbour who has an aviary built at the end of his garden has threatened to shoot my cats if they go into his garden. I tried being reasonable and telling him that unlike dogs, cats cannot be trained to not go into someone elses garden. I have also said to him in the past that I dont mind im throwing a ball or something at them if they climb on the aviary, to deter them but the other day he started screaming that he would shoot them if they came in again. I live in a rough area and I woudl not be surprised if he has a pellet gun, or if he put down poison for them.

What I am wondering is, do you need a license to keep birds (he has about a hundred racing pigeons)? He is in a council house so would he be allowed to construct an aviary down the back of his garden? Its a big concrete outhouse type thing.

Police as usual were useless, telling me they wouldnt come out in case he became agitated when he saw their car!

Why do you think its ok to have cats, that hassle/kill birds and as you said yourself can't be trained to stay out of someones garden (where they normally shi*e too!). Why not get rid of the cats!?

kildare.17hmr

diveshark wrote: »

Why do you think its ok to have cats, that hassle/kill birds and as you said yourself can't be trained to stay out of someones garden (where they normally shi*e too!). Why not get rid of the cats!?

Id imagine because their his pets and he might feel attached to them!! I dont care much for cats myself but seriously thats not helpful advice to the lad!!!

josh79

would cats in your garden or on your land not be fair game ???

diveshark

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Id imagine because their his pets and he might feel attached to them!! I dont care much for cats myself but seriously thats not helpful advice to the lad!!!

But seriously why does he feel thats it ok of going down the root of getting his neighbours "pets" removed. Just pointing out that he could have a look at the trouble his cats are causing rather than blaming the birds next door!
Takes 2 to tango!
Miles off OP at this point!

diveshark

josh79 wrote: »

would cats in your garden or on your land not be fair game ???

I hope so!:D

Dusty87

diveshark wrote: »

I hope so!:D

no they're not. They have to be a certain distance from nearest dwelling to be considered feral. And they are in an estate.

LordDorington

diveshark wrote: »

Why do you think its ok to have cats, that hassle/kill birds and as you said yourself can't be trained to stay out of someones garden (where they normally shi*e too!). Why not get rid of the cats!?

Thanks for the very helpful information.

kildare.17hmr

josh79 wrote: »

would cats in your garden or on your land not be fair game ???

Defo not, feral cats yes(on land obviously not your garden in a housing estate) but domestic pets would be a big no no!

LordDorington

diveshark wrote: »

But seriously why does he feel thats it ok of going down the root of getting his neighbours "pets" removed. Just pointing out that he could have a look at the trouble his cats are causing rather than blaming the birds next door!
Takes 2 to tango!
Miles off OP at this point!

First off, I am not talking about randomly taking shots at his pets.

Secondly, I am perfectly within my legal rights to own cats and I am acting within the law - if he is in a council house and does not have permission to have a concrete aviary constructed at the end of his garden then he IS breaking the law. End of.

diveshark

Dusty87 wrote: »

no they're not. They have to be a certain distance from nearest dwelling to be considered feral. And they are in an estate.

fair point. disappointing though.

jap gt

diveshark wrote: »

fair point. disappointing though.

why

LordDorington

Quick update: I contacted an animal rights group as well as the Dublin City Council and they advised trying to negotiate with him first so my housemate called around to him and basically said that they are cats, they cannot be trained not to enter his garden but we would be willing to supply him with cat repellent. He apologised for his threatening behaviour and said he was pissed off about something else and said no need for repellent. Situ now is that if they do climb on his aviary he is allowed to throw a ball or something at them or use a hose to get rid of them (I have no problem with either tbh if the cats are making a nuisance of themselves but I do draw the line at shooting!) He also realises that he is very much in the minority and in an estate where nearly every second house has cats, it's not feasible to threaten to shoot them all! All quite for now so, no thanks to the advice on here

kildare.17hmr

jap gt wrote: »

why

Im guessin he doesnt like cats much:p

kildare.17hmr

My father has an avery out the back full of caneries and the likes, he also has a big supersoker water pistol which works a treat, simple solution

jap gt

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Im guessin he doesnt like cats much:p

i guess your right, but its no excuse to shoot a house cat just cause he doesnt like them, comments like that give us all a bad name, if the cats feral id have no trouble shooting it but a house cat is very different

5live

With that attitude its no wonderhe miffed. Have land preserved due to sheep grazing and neospora abortion but shooters dont give a damn. May have to get angry on nov 1

LordDorington

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

My father has an avery out the back full of caneries and the likes, he also has a big supersoker water pistol which works a treat, simple solution

Exactly, and the thing about cats is, once you do that once or twice they learn, cats stay away from birds, cats dont get shot, neighbour doesnt get ratted out for building an aviary without consent...all happy.

patsat

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

My father has an avery out the back full of caneries and the likes, he also has a big supersoker water pistol which works a treat, simple solution

With a supersoaker at hand I'd be delighted to see on the avery! That would brill crack!

kildare.17hmr

patsat wrote: »

With a supersoaker at hand I'd be delighted to see on the avery! That would brill crack!

oh it is! and they do learn after a while as its not much of a problem anymore. super soaker remains full of water tho for passers thru;)

diveshark

jap gt wrote: »

i guess your right, but its no excuse to shoot a house cat just cause he doesnt like them, comments like that give us all a bad name, if the cats feral id have no trouble shooting it but a house cat is very different

Read the post, I said get rid of not shoot.
Like other people have pointed out there are lots of ways to get rid of them.

Micky Dolenz

May i ask about shooting rights. So lets say I am a land owner and I don't mind the local club shooting on my land, is it a casual/verbal agreement or are there contracts?