This city (Dublin) is so broken

markpb

<rant>
Q: In what city can you travel home at walking speed?
A: Dublin in the rain
</rant>

I left Sandyford at 5.40pm and got to Oscar Traynor road (between Santry and Coolock) at 8pm. The Luas was it's usual reliable self but the 7km trip from O'Connell St to Santry Stadium took an hour and then my next bus was cancelled resulting in a 30 minute wait. A kind gent in DB central control told me that a crash on the M1 near the airport was disrupting every outbound northern route this evening and apologised profusely but it didn't help my mood any.

How can one crash cause so much disruption? Most of my trip is covered by bus lanes so whatever impact there is on normal traffic, the impact on buses should be minimal.

Rant over

the_monkey

Cos Ireland is a sh*thole run by a bunch of spud munching inbred rednecks, look at our "leaders" - a f*cking embarrasment....

Brian Cowen looks like he'd attack a live pig for food ffs, probably left school at 14 and got in to politics through "the boys club" .

Heart

Ah, I didn't know about that crash!

I got a 41c from Abbey St. this evening. Going grand with bus lanes until Drumcondra Road, took about 25 mins to get from the end of the bus lane on Dorset St. to the next bus lane section after Clonliffe Road! Not that long of a section in realty, traffic was just mental! That accident probably explains it.

H

Zaph

the_monkey wrote: »

Cos Ireland is a sh*thole run by a bunch of spud munching inbred rednecks, look at our "leaders" - a f*cking embarrasment....

Brian Cowen looks like he'd attack a live pig for food ffs, probably left school at 14 and got in to politics through "the boys club" .

Why does every post complaining about something in Ireland have to prompt rubbish like this? It's a post about commuting in Dublin, not the government, not where they're from, not their eating habits and not their educational qualifications (Cowen is a qualified solicitor btw, and before you ask no, I'm not a fan of his either). Really if you have nothing intelligent to offer why bother posting?

runway16

Well said. These boards are littered with these kinds of responses, and its getting tiring.

If I hear NAMA mentioned in a transport thread one more time, I will not be responsible for the hurt I inflict on myself!!! ;-)

Take your anger out in the ballot box next time you get a chance. We all the got the government we deserve. We vote them in, and we did so in droves when things were good. I guess that makes all of us just as stupid / uneducated / red-necked etc. Food for thought....

A crash caused traffic mayhem on the major artery serving the thread starters destination. In any other city I know of, exactly the same thing would have happened. The difference is, those other cities would have had an alternative. Rail. Which is why we need more rail.

Maybe the good people of this city will think of that next time they go bitching about Metro North / Dart Underground / Luas, whatever.

jack presley

I blame the vikings. What were they thinking putting the port there? had they no foresight?

Judgement Day

runway16 wrote: »

Well said. These boards are littered with these kinds of responses, and its getting tiring.

If I hear NAMA mentioned in a transport thread one more time, I will not be responsible for the hurt I inflict on myself!!! ;-)

Take your anger out in the ballot box next time you get a chance. We all the got the government we deserve. We vote them in, and we did so in droves when things were good. I guess that makes all of us just as stupid / uneducated / red-necked etc. Food for thought....

A crash caused traffic mayhem on the major artery serving the thread starters destination. In any other city I know of, exactly the same thing would have happened. The difference is, those other cities would have had an alternative. Rail. Which is why we need more rail.

Maybe the good people of this city will think of that next time they go bitching about Metro North / Dart Underground / Luas, whatever.

Agree with most of your post except when you slip into the 'We all got the government we deserve' claptrap. I haven't voted FF in 30 years and I voted Green to get them out - there was no indication prior to the election that the Greens would put them back in.

markpb

jack presley wrote: »

I blame the vikings. What were they thinking putting the port there? had they no foresight?

Who mentioned the port? What are you on about?

Now that I've calmed down (and eaten), let's see how this could have been avoided:

* My commute should be ideal for the Dart but because the feeder buses are poor (17a) and atrocious (116), it's not an option.

* The Gardai could have been on traffic duty at critical city centre junctions and bus lanes ensuring that they weren't blocked. In Madrid, the Traffic Corp do this all day long. They could also have been used as part of an integrated traffic plan to divert traffic away from the M1 (where possible).

* The Gardai could have been on traffic duty ensuring entries to key outbound bus corridors were kept clear. There's no reason for a crash outside city limits should affect city bus services in bus lanes many miles away.

* Metro North should have been built so I wouldn't have been stuck in the traffic above :-)

coco0981

the_monkey wrote: »

Cos Ireland is a sh*thole run by a bunch of spud munching inbred rednecks, look at our "leaders" - a f*cking embarrasment....

Brian Cowen looks like he'd attack a live pig for food ffs, probably left school at 14 and got in to politics through "the boys club" .

No need for that crap, Brian Cowan has family and friends who for all we know frequent boards.ie as well. Attack him for the policies that have got us into the hole we are in not his weight, too easy to be a keyboard warrior :mad:

sorry for dragging thread off topic just had to reply

-Chris-

the_monkey wrote: »

Cos Ireland is a sh*thole run by a bunch of spud munching inbred rednecks, look at our "leaders" - a f*cking embarrasment....

Brian Cowen looks like he'd attack a live pig for food ffs, probably left school at 14 and got in to politics through "the boys club" .

Take it to Ranting and Raving (you may need to request access). This type of post has nothing to do with Commuting &Transport and isn't welcome here.

Cookie_Monster

I've heard it said many times a broken down truck or crash anywhere within the M50 at rush hour will bring the entire city to a stand still

That username is already in use.

markpb wrote: »

the 7km trip from O'Connell St to Santry Stadium took an hour

Metro North goes straight from O'Connell Street to Santry, does it not?

Stonewolf

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I've heard it said many times a broken down truck or crash anywhere within the M50 at rush hour will bring the entire city to a stand still

I was going to the shops the other day, my usual route up the M1, swing onto the N32 and over to Clarehall ... there was a truck jacknifed well up the M50S sliproad so of course the Gardai closed off the whole thing, slip up the roundabout and all :mad:

the_monkey

Cowen probably bought his "qualification" from the Big Boys club he's in ...

mikemac

the_monkey wrote: »

Cowen probably bought his "qualification" from the Big Boys club he's in ...

Have you attempted the FE1's, solicitor exams? All eight of them?
Passed the Irish exams they held in the past?

No? Then STFU or take it to politics forum, the thread is on a crash delaying commuters in North Dublin.

dermo88

Insulting politicians won't get us anywhere, even though I dislike them intensely. The reality is, its no better in Manila, Bangkok, Rio De Janeiro, Mexico DF, Dubai, Cairo....Athens.....its much worse there.

Hold on a minute, thats what the establishment and those in charge want us to say. All the above cities are in developing nations and have dire traffic problems. The problems are that Dublin is a low rise city, with sprawl, and that much of its construction is from the 19th to mid 20th century. Fortunately we did'nt have the Luftwaffe to level the place, so we could start again from scratch, and build a soul-less town with concrete boxes as an excuse for a city. Thats its charm, its also a curse.

Where on earth do we get a situation where 3 LRT (Luas) lines are planned in 1994, and brochures posted to every household, telling us that it will cost 300 Million Pounds for the 3, including the Luas line to the Airport. Then we get two lines, not linked, and somehow they cost twice as much, even though the consumer price index barely changed by 30% over that period. The Northside of the City has not been provided for adequately by public transport, and that its dependency on buses leads to the very problems that the OP mentions, as in 1 hour to cover 7 measly kilometers.

In any major city, with so few motorways, the moment one artery like the M50, M1 or M2 has an accident, you can forget about moving.
________________________________________________________________

- Chris, I have'nt had a chance to welcome you on board as a moderator, so may I take the opportunity to do so. Welcome to the zoo, and I'll try and behave myself.

murphaph

runway16 wrote: »

A crash caused traffic mayhem on the major artery serving the thread starters destination. In any other city I know of, exactly the same thing would have happened.

Disagree. I have seen how slowly the Guards move vehicles blocking the M50, even when there are no injured people in them. In Britain, the motorway cops quickly stop traffic, attach a chain to the wreck and pull it to the HS themselves to get traffic moving again asap. In Ireland the Guards tend to wait for a tow truck.

But I agree with the rest of your post.

Mister men

the_monkey wrote: »

Cos Ireland is a sh*thole run by a bunch of spud munching inbred rednecks, look at our "leaders" - a f*cking embarrasment....

Brian Cowen looks like he'd attack a live pig for food ffs, probably left school at 14 and got in to politics through "the boys club" .

Is the right answer. Lol at people giving out about this post. You seriously think Brian Clown gives a **** about you or yours ffs. Not enough anger in this country towards the government that's the problem most of our population are a bumch of fu*king lemmings who get what they deserve.:mad:

corktina

markpb wrote: »

Who mentioned the port? What are you on about?

its called " a joke"

-Chris-

-Chris- wrote: »

the_monkey wrote: »

Cos Ireland is a sh*thole run by a bunch of spud munching inbred rednecks, look at our "leaders" - a f*cking embarrasment....

Brian Cowen looks like he'd attack a live pig for food ffs, probably left school at 14 and got in to politics through "the boys club" .

Take it to Ranting and Raving (you may need to request access). This type of post has nothing to do with Commuting &Transport and isn't welcome here.

I don't think I could have made that post any clearer.

the_monkey wrote: »

Cowen probably bought his "qualification" from the Big Boys club he's in ...

Mister men wrote: »

Is the right answer. Lol at people giving out about this post. You seriously think Brian Clown gives a **** about you or yours ffs. Not enough anger in this country towards the government that's the problem most of our population are a bumch of fu*king lemmings who get what they deserve.:mad:

the_monkey banned for 3 days for ignoring mod warning on-thread.

Mister men infracted for ignoring mod warning on thread.

Take it to Politics or Ranting & Raving.

Polar101

markpb wrote: »

I left Sandyford at 5.40pm and got to Oscar Traynor road (between Santry and Coolock) at 8pm.

That's insane.. how long would it normally take? About an hour?

markpb

Polar101 wrote: »

That's insane.. how long would it normally take? About an hour?

1h in the morning, 1h15 in the evenings. Maybe a little slower during school term.

Alun

murphaph wrote: »

Disagree. I have seen how slowly the Guards move vehicles blocking the M50, even when there are no injured people in them. In Britain, the motorway cops quickly stop traffic, attach a chain to the wreck and pull it to the HS themselves to get traffic moving again asap. In Ireland the Guards tend to wait for a tow truck.

I agree .. there seems to be no kind of coordinated plan on how to react to situations like this, it takes an inordinate amount of time to react and when they do, it all comes across as a bit amateurish compared to the response in other countries.

I came across a small accident on the M50 one day that, judging by the amount of time it took for me to get to the scene had taken place some considerable time ago, and all there was to see when I arrived was a single solitary Garda (not even TC), no flashing lights, no traffic cones, no warning triangle, no hi-viz vest, nothing. And all he was doing was standing there, making vague hand waving gestures to try and get the rubber-neckers to move on.

schemingbohemia

While I sympathise with the OPs plight and I'm all in favour of way more bus lanes leaving a bus lane just for buses when an accident prohibits movement in the normal car lanes just doesn't make sense.

The Garda should obviously have dealt with the problem a lot quicker and removed the obstacle, but part of the problem here is with our insurance system where you're basically told - admit nothing - which leads to punters leaving their cars in the middle of the road for the garda to decide who was at fault (which they never do anyway) so that their insurance premia won't go up.

AlekSmart

And all he was doing was standing there, making vague hand waving gestures to try and get the rubber-neckers to move on.

Alun`s post brings me neatly to a spin off on this topic.

What form of training is given to members of the Gardai in manual signaling ?

The standard of Hand Signals to motorists given by Gardai is appaling,worse still it`s a force-wide problem.

The entire issue is at the very core of Traffic Policing and is covered very effectively in the old Rules of The Road booklets.

The norm now is for a series of highly ambiguous,half-hearted wrist movements which might mean something or then again,might not.

Nowhere is this carry-on more apparent than on a big-match day at Croke Park where at the junction of Drumcondra Road and Clonliffe Road one could see up to 12 Gardai "Controlling" the junction (With the Traffic Signals remaining ON).

Quite often each of these Garadai will have taken a different interpretation from their reading of the day`s orders and will act accordingly,even if their instruction is in direct conflict with one given by a colleague on the other side.

Added to this is a peculiarly Irish requirement for Gardai to lean in through the windows of vehicles to engage the occupants in friendly banter whilst behind them other lesser motoring mortals attempt to manouvere around the stalled car...all of this in the context of a major public event which has a "Traffic Management Plan" in effect....:o

It is total and absolute chaos.

But it also appears to represent Garda Training in these matters...

A five minute spell under the control of a PSNI member or for that matter a rural UK Constable will reveal an ability to straighten the arm and give clear direct unambigious directions which can be seen by all concerned.

Alun

AlekSmart wrote: »

Alun`s post brings me neatly to a spin off on this topic.

I've mentioned this before over in Motors in the past, but it doesn't seem to bother many others apart from me (and yourself of course!).

Apart from not making vague gestures that even vaguely resemble those expected by motorists from reading the RotR, the biggest mistake they make in my mind is in making it very ambiguous which particular car or row of cars is being signalled to.

If you see someone doing it properly (and I've seen Traffic Wardens in the UK at large events do a better job than the Gardai) they first make eye contact and when that is made they point in a very obvious way at the driver in question and then give the instruction. Here they seem to be gesticulating towards one driver while aimlessly staring into the distance in another leading to ambiguity and a "Who ... me??" from the motorist in question.

In fact there was a thread over in Motors recently about someone that was done for not stopping at a Garda checkpoint because she genuinely thought she was being waved through, whereas in fact they wanted her to stop.

Fratton Fred

The only thing wrong with Dublin transport is that the powers that be seem to spend more time talking about it and trying to keep everyone happy than actually doing it.

There are a dozen or so underground lines needed in Dublin to take it into the 21st century, the meto north is the most traight forward one. stop talking about should the entrance be built outside No 24 uffington road or no. 28, or should it stop near the gas works or the power station and just build the ****ing thing.

Look at the Luas Green line, christ almighty, it will be obsolete by the time any trams ae running down it.

and as for bus lanes, how about a bit automatic monitoring like in London. keep some of the scum bags out of them, bung in a load of automatic penalties and free the damn things up. the same applies to yellow box junctions and bus stops.

Stop fannying around, get tough and make some tough decisions, although I fear no one in authority has the cajones to do this as it may upset their voters.

What's Ken Livingstone doing these days, lets make him mayor, or president or something.

Cookie_Monster

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Look at the Luas Green line, christ almighty, it will be obsolete by the time any trams ae running down it.
.

you do know trams have been running on it for years, right :P:D

But you are right. Public consultation should be done away with altogether for transport. All it does is cause unnecessary delay and stupid reworks to suit the few militant enough to turn up.

Fratton Fred

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

you do know trams have been running on it for years, right :P:D

But you are right. Public consultation should be done away with altogether for transport. All it does is cause unnecessary delay and stupid reworks to suit the few militant enough to turn up.

in the midst of my rant, i forgot to include the bit about Cherrywood:o

mickydoomsux

Another thing that is nesscessary on public transport, particularly in Dublin: transport police.

The amount of knackerish behaviour and pickpocketing on the Luas the few times i've been on it is unreal. The saddest thing i saw was an auld lad who looked about 90 having his umbrella stolen off the seat beside him by some scummer who swiped it as he was exiting the train.

The threat of an extendable baton across the teeth would have made this scrote think twice about pulling that kind of **** and it'd make everyone elses journey a bit more enjoyable if they didn't have to be constantly on high alert because Anto and Damo are knocking about. Might even increase the amount of paying customers on the Luas.

Cookie_Monster

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Another thing that is nesscessary on public transport, particularly in Dublin: transport police.

Absolutely and zero tolerance at that. The Luas is particularly bad and needs something done about all the scum, instead of throwing them off without fines only for them to get the next one

mickydoomsux

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Absolutely and zero tolerance at that. The Luas is particularly bad and needs something done about all the scum, instead of throwing them off without fines only for them to get the next one

Indeed. When i was in New York a couple of years ago i saw a skaterish looking fella jump one of the turnstiles leading into a subway station only to see him caught and flung to the ground and put in handcuffs by two plain clothes transport cops that he obviously hadn't noticed.

No warning. No talk. They just dealt with the problem the way it should have been dealt with. You'd never get that over here, but we can dream.

patrickbrophy18

Stonewolf wrote: »

I was going to the shops the other day, my usual route up the M1, swing onto the N32 and over to Clarehall ... there was a truck jacknifed well up the M50S sliproad so of course the Gardai closed off the whole thing, slip up the roundabout and all :mad:

Yeah, I never understood why they block off an entire area as opposed to blocking off the one bit of land where the jackknifing had occurred. Unfortunately, there isn't more rail lines in the capital.

Bray, Greystones, Howth and Malahide are the termini for the DART system which is a fantastic system most of the time. After that Drogheda, Dundalk, Maynooth and Adamstown have a somewhat decent rail system in place. However, those areas are far from being ideally located (railway wise) as the frequency on these lines isn't meeting the levels of demand on these lines. Sometimes the gap between trains on the Maynooth line is an hour which is ludicrous given that the belt of land by this line has a massive population upwards of 200,000. However, DMU's seem to be quite expensive to run which might explain the poor frequency. The sooner they have the DART, the better.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Having tailbacks from Drumcondra to the M50 over a broken down vehicle is absolute tripe. I never understood why there isn't an emergency vehicle on the M50 which shifts the broken down, crashed or damaged vehicle aside to minimize blockage. I often see bays on the M50 which would be perfect for an emergency vehicle to be put on stand-by. I know that they are for Gardai vehicles. However, most of the time when I see these bays, they are empty. While I was carpooling out to Damastown, there a good few break downs on the M50 per week. Surely then, the ends justify the means for an emergency stand-by vehicle.:mad::D:mad::D

Cookie_Monster

Scene generally has to be left in place until it is determined whether or not its a crime scene and whether evidence needs to be gathered

Fratton Fred

dermo88 wrote: »

Hold on a minute, thats what the establishment and those in charge want us to say. All the above cities are in developing nations and have dire traffic problems. The problems are that Dublin is a low rise city, with sprawl, and that much of its construction is from the 19th to mid 20th century. Fortunately we did'nt have the Luftwaffe to level the place, so we could start again from scratch, and build a soul-less town with concrete boxes as an excuse for a city. Thats its charm, its also a curse.

The Luftwaffe didn't flatten any part of Paris, that was built in the 19th and 20th century and is a huge sprawling city. They have a superb transport system.

it doesn't matter what your city is like, if you dig big holes underneath it and put trains in them, the city can look like whatever you want and the trains can run wherever they like.

dermo88

Fratton Fred, a good point about Paris, thank you. It is easy to fall into the comparison trap while forgetting that

Dublin never had the industrial base.
Dublins population only began expanding after the 1940s, prior to which it was relatively stagnant for almost 200 years at around 450,000 people. This is not the kind of population level that sustains underground railway networks.
Ireland was not a wealthy country until recently. Its wealth levels and economic development patterns bore more similarities with Southern Italy, Greece, Spain and Portugal.

Cookie_Monster

not to mention the tearing up of one of the worlds best tram networks...

dcr22B

OP, would you not consider driving to Sandyford?

patrickbrophy18

dermo88 wrote: »

Hold on a minute, thats what the establishment and those in charge want us to say. All the above cities are in developing nations and have dire traffic problems. The problems are that Dublin is a low rise city, with sprawl, and that much of its construction is from the 19th to mid 20th century. Fortunately we did'nt have the Luftwaffe to level the place, so we could start again from scratch, and build a soul-less town with concrete boxes as an excuse for a city. Thats its charm, its also a curse.

Paris, London and New York are some of the best cities in the world due to the fact that it is so easy to get from A to B without a car as there is an underground railway linking most of their suburbs to each other. Also, they have skyscrapers. These cites are also major hubs for international transport and are also a feature in many a-list movies due to their iconic status. They also show what cities are like when they embrace the requisite changes needed to move forward and fulfill their potential. It is 2010 and our poor excuse for a capital is only in the planning stages for it's first underground railway system. The pathetic thing is that Dublin city is one of the oldest in Europe predating 900AD. These "concrete boxes" as you describe them is a typical description from a typically backward Irish person. This is probably the result of a long-lasting jealous grudge that a lot of Irish people still have due to the fact that other cities in the world are progressing at many times the rate of Dublin. Let's just face it, while we were still in tatters in the early half of the 1900's, other nations where miles ahead of us. I am Irish born and bred and in matters like this were we can't even manage traffic in a capital city properly, I am embarrassed to be Irish. Are you implying that you take pride in the fact that our country isn't fulfilling it's potential? If so, you can only take pride in something you accomplish and not in something you are. People don't accomplish when they aren't fulfilling their potential. I think that the over-sentimentality that plagues this country has prevented it from fulfilling it's potential and is therefore very regressive. We need to press on in this country.

syklops

dcr22B wrote: »

OP, would you not consider driving to Sandyford?

I used to live in Coolock and work in Sandyford, and used to get a lift with one of my friends, and the journey used to regularly take 2 hours to get there or get home.

Maybe things have improved, but this wasn't 30 years ago or anything.

markpb

dcr22B wrote: »

OP, would you not consider driving to Sandyford?

syklops wrote: »

I used to live in Coolock and work in Sandyford, and used to get a lift with one of my friends, and the journey used to regularly take 2 hours to get there or get home. Maybe things have improved, but this wasn't 30 years ago or anything.

A few people in work commute from the same area - it's definitely a lot faster than it was before but driving out of Sandyford at rush hour is still slow so they end up coming in very early or leaving very late to avoid it. They also pay the toll each day which gets quite expensive. In comparison, my annual bus/luas ticket costs me €11 a week and lets me go for drinks in the evening

Propellerhead

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Indeed. When i was in New York a couple of years ago i saw a skaterish looking fella jump one of the turnstiles leading into a subway station only to see him caught and flung to the ground and put in handcuffs by two plain clothes transport cops that he obviously hadn't noticed.

No warning. No talk. They just dealt with the problem the way it should have been dealt with. You'd never get that over here, but we can dream.

I could suggest that the lack of grip in dealing with this and other transport matters could be laid at successive governments, but I might get banned..

Fratton Fred

What i would do (and I admit to having a vested interest here) is build the Metro North and then take if all the way down to Dun Laoghaire, or maybe even Bray so you have a sort of RER/Crossrail type set up.

KC61

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What i would do (and I admit to having a vested interest here) is build the Metro North and then take if all the way down to Dun Laoghaire, or maybe even Bray so you have a sort of RER/Crossrail type set up.

With respect if there is an area that ought to be served by a Metro North extension it is the Rathmines/Terenure/Rathfarnham/Knocklyon areas that have far less quality public transport than Dun Laoghaire or Bray which both have the railway line and the strongest QBC in the city.

Fratton Fred

KC61 wrote: »

With respect if there is an area that ought to be served by a Metro North extension it is the Rathmines/Terenure/Rathfarnham/Knocklyon areas that have far less quality public transport than Dun Laoghaire or Bray which both have the railway line and the strongest QBC in the city.

i would agree with you 100%, if i lived in any of those areas

seriously, you're right, an extension of the Metro north down to maybe Sandyford would be handy as it opens up a lot of the south when the Green Line gets running.

Live Drive

Just for the record the collision mentioned by the thread starter was on the M1 inbound and caused minimal delays to the inbound route. The delays on the M1 outbound were down to commuters rubbernecking at the collision while passing. The collision itself was cleared about 5.20 but by then the damage had been done and the M1 outbound queue was back before the Port Tunnel.

Stonewolf

Fratton Fred wrote: »

i would agree with you 100%, if i lived in any of those areas

seriously, you're right, an extension of the Metro north down to maybe Sandyford would be handy as it opens up a lot of the south when the Green Line gets running.

The Luas Green Line is already running to Sandyford for several years and will conveniently connect with Metro North at Stevens Green when the latter is built. For extra convenience there will also be a Dart link at the same location. There is no need to extend the project South unless it goes somewhere other than where the Luas goes.

KC61

Fratton Fred wrote: »

i would agree with you 100%, if i lived in any of those areas

seriously, you're right, an extension of the Metro north down to maybe Sandyford would be handy as it opens up a lot of the south when the Green Line gets running.

Again you're missing the point.

Why extend it somewhere that already has a light rail service.

If it was ever to be extended it would be in the south central area that has no rail services whatsoever and chronic traffic congestion.

Cookie_Monster

Stonewolf wrote: »

The Luas Green Line is already running to Sandyford for several years and will conveniently connect with Metro North at Stevens Green when the latter is built. For extra convenience there will also be a Dart link at the same location. There is no need to extend the project South unless it goes somewhere other than where the Luas goes.

Sandyford will become (is) the high rise centre of Dublin so I think it warrants the extra link for the density alone, the Luas can barely cope as is at rush hour.

Fratton Fred

Stonewolf wrote: »

The Luas Green Line is already running to Sandyford for several years and will conveniently connect with Metro North at Stevens Green when the latter is built. For extra convenience there will also be a Dart link at the same location. There is no need to extend the project South unless it goes somewhere other than where the Luas goes.

KC61 wrote: »

Again you're missing the point.

Why extend it somewhere that already has a light rail service.

If it was ever to be extended it would be in the south central area that has no rail services whatsoever and chronic traffic congestion.

But if it doesn't go somewhere the Luas or Dart already is, then you just have another point to point unconnected rail line. because it ends near the Luas, doesn't mean it has to follow the same route.

Stonewolf

Except that there are connections at Stevens Green, with the Green Line and Dart. Furthermore, because Green Line goes to Sandyford and serves the areas in between it is not necessary to build a line to Sandyford when there's so much more of the city that lacks a rail service (be it light or heavy) at all. Those places are currently stuck with slow buses winding their way along Georgian streets layed out mostly for foot and horse traffic which struggle to cope with modern traffic.

Not that this discussion is in any way relevant given that MN is in no way meant, designed or envisioned as going anywhere South of Stevens Green unless it's by tying into and replacing the Green Line in Ranelagh. If that were to happen I suspect all the businesses on Harcourt Street might just explode out of sheer rage.