The moral high ground...????

LegacyUser

So I'm female, late 30s and single.

I've had a few long term relationships, but always knew they were going nowhere from the start. But I stuck around, because they were nice guys and made me happy at the time. I knew there was no future though.

So now I find myself out there, and 'dating', have tried some internet stuff, tried joining a club, tried to make contact with friends 'single male' friends etc. I have been 'successful' in that I have always gotten a few dates etc. So I don't feel like my problem is in attracting men.

I don't think this is a relationship issue either, which is why I've posted in PI. I feel that I am a very normal, down to earth, 30something year old female who has no standards when it comes to how men look or what their job is. Or even if they have a job. I am always attracted to personality. But there are things that really annoy me about recent boyfriends - 'I'll ring you tomorrow at 6...' (he rings at 9)....'we'll go out thursday night'..(have to cancel because I'm working late)...'I don't want a serious relationship'...(goes on to find a serious relationship with the next woman) and the list is endless.

I feel like I take the moral high ground all the time. I feel like my standards about how I should be treated are normal, but apparently (according to married friends) they are unrealistic. If he says he'll ring at 6, that means 7, they say. Of course he has to work late, sure it's a recession they say. I get pretty p!ssed off when I'm let down for a date, to the point where I have broken up with blokes who have rang 4 hours later than they say they'd ring, even though in every other way, they are pretty nice guys.

Am I just getting old? See, I put up with all this stuff from men in my 20s...and I've really had enough. But I find myself walking away from more and more men in the past few years, over stuff that they, or my pals, would consider pretty trivial stuff.

I am very, very far from a demanding woman...in fact, I've been walked all over by my family most of my life. But I think it's the little things that make a relationship work, the being on time for a date, the doing what you said you would do stuff....and when I'm let down with the smaller stuff, I'm gone.

And here I am. Single, late thirties with no sign of a bloke. Am I one of those women who just hasn't met the right man yet??? Or should I loosen my standards and accept the smaller stuff (even though it p1sses me off) so that I am IN a relationship with a bloke I like?

metrovelvet

Well...

I appreciate the same things. Doing as you say you will do. And I could see myself rejecting people for their lack of punctuality. Ive gotten ruthless with friends about this stuff too. I was on the phone with one and she had another call coming through on call waiting. She said she'd phone back. Do you know when she phoned back? Three years later. I just have no patience for it.

Saying that, you could meet someone who is always on time, who calls when they say they will, are hyper reliable and turn out to be vicious.

LighterGuy

basically op you are just sick of all the crap that comes with people.

As for what your married friends said - thats just excuses. Living unrealistic in this world. Half of the excuses we get in our lives are bs. "I'm working late" - "somethings come up" - "sorry i was out of credit" etc etc. The majority of such excuses are lies sadly.


I dont think you're demanding. Not one bit. You're just burned out with all the crap.


As for what you should do?
The sad thing in life is we have to put up with certain crap to a certain point. To find a balance. If we react on every BS thing we hear, we wont have much in life. Thats the messed up thing. Find your balance. Between things you will let slide. And things you just wont accept.

your average persons balance is letting it slide once, then not again. But the problem with that is one can let stuff slide that should of been acted upon. (just look at half the threads on here :P )

LegacyUser

Thanks for that.

Of course, I've just split up with someone which is what has prompted my question. He was everything a girl could ask for - attentive, loving, caring, affectionate etc. But he was the most unreliable guy I've ever met. So he was all of the above things when we were in company. But he constantly didn't ring when he said he would, changed dates ten minutes beforehand, said we'd go places/do things that we never got round to (he never got round to) and the list goes on. He always had a perfectly good reason or excuse why he didn't follow through with stuff.

My (married) friend who I would confide in most about men would forever tell me that her hubby was worse and that she had found a compromise for herself - a long time ago, she stopped depending on him or believing anything he said (about times/meeting up etc) which meant that she got less stressed, and also meant that if she had no expectations of him, everything they actually did, was a bonus. She said she wrote down his good and bad points and that the good far outweighed the bad, so she decided to stick with him because there are far worse men out there.

I just couldn't put up with his behaviour any more though and having left him to go home on a thursday with his words 'I'll call you saturday and we'll do something ok?' (he rang on sunday!!), I finished with him. Yes, I could have phoned him myself but I don't think it's too much to ask for someone to ring when they say they will, do you?

metrovelvet

That would absolutely drive me up the wall. I would consider it screwing around with my time.

I know I know the fashionable thing to do these days is "adjust your expectations" but there has to be a limit to this.

mood

Do you just jump the guy or do you try to take to them about it first and give it a chance?

Getting annoyed because a guy rings at 9pm instead of 8pm is OTT I think. But getting annoyed at a date being cancelled 10 mins before hand when you have already got ready etc is understandable.

LegacyUser

Ah I'd always stick with it for a while - I wouldn't just run at the first sign of this behaviour. But then it all gets too much for me, and I'm outta there.

I don't want to be single forever,no way, but does everyone just 'put up' with stuff while in relationships? Like seriously, this last guy who I was seeing for 6 months was just wonderful when we were actually together - if we had weekends away or if he stayed over and we had a few days together, things really couldnt have been any better. But then when we'd be leaving each others company, I would almost always know that the plans we were making to see each other again would either be cancelled at the last minute, or he'd 'forget' about our plans and make other plans.....It got to the point with me that I just stopped making any plans with him but then I didn't know if I was going out on a certain night or not!

My friend reckons I take the moral high ground (hence the title) and that I'm high maintenance when it comes to this issue. I reckon she's just a complete walk-over having decided it's ok to let her husband treat her the way she does.

Is there a happy medium?

mood

unregistered wrote: »

Ah I'd always stick with it for a while - I wouldn't just run at the first sign of this behaviour. But then it all gets too much for me, and I'm outta there.

I don't want to be single forever,no way, but does everyone just 'put up' with stuff while in relationships? Like seriously, this last guy who I was seeing for 6 months was just wonderful when we were actually together - if we had weekends away or if he stayed over and we had a few days together, things really couldnt have been any better. But then when we'd be leaving each others company, I would almost always know that the plans we were making to see each other again would either be cancelled at the last minute, or he'd 'forget' about our plans and make other plans.....It got to the point with me that I just stopped making any plans with him but then I didn't know if I was going out on a certain night or not!

My friend reckons I take the moral high ground (hence the title) and that I'm high maintenance when it comes to this issue. I reckon she's just a complete walk-over having decided it's ok to let her husband treat her the way she does.

Is there a happy medium?

I didn't ask if you stick around. Asked if you tried talking about it, actually telling the guy that it upsets you etc. Just sticking around and not talking about it will give the guy the impression his cancelling last minute etc is ok. Communication is key and if you don't try to communicate about important issues how can things work!

28064212

unregistered wrote: »

Ah I'd always stick with it for a while - I wouldn't just run at the first sign of this behaviour. But then it all gets too much for me, and I'm outta there.

But do you actually take it up with him at some stage? Do you make it absolutely crystal clear that this is something that really annoys you? If you do, then fair enough, everyone has an issue that's a dealbreaker for them, ignore the next paragraph.

But If not, are you just expecting them to read your mind? It's obviously not something that they feel strongly about. Maybe they wish you were more flexible and spontaneous (from their point of view), rather than always running to a rigid timetable. It's fine wanting people to be reliable, but everyone gives different weightings to different personality traits

unregistered wrote: »

I don't want to be single forever,no way, but does everyone just 'put up' with stuff while in relationships?

Almost everyone compromises to some degree. It's unlikely you're going to find someone who is absolutely in sync with you in every way. But you seem to be ignoring the fact that the guys you have been with have no doubt been 'putting up' with some of your personality traits/habits too.

LegacyUser

Look, I'm not saying I'm perfect, far from it! I know I have my issues too - as we all have. But I think the most simplest of arrangements can be stuck to in most cases, see you at 8 on friday for example...

And you're right, I probably don't make it crystal clear that this stuff annoys me at the start. When relationships begin, I make out that I'm fine with all this cancelling at the last minute stuff. I guess I want the guy to think I have a wonderful life apart from him, and am not waiting around for him to ring/take me out whatever. I do have a good life btw, but my friends are either married or settled, and aren't available to come out at the drop of a hat....
But I guess I pretend that its not a problem (at the start)..and I guess I try to make out I'm quite a relaxed person......to make a big issue of stuff like this at the very start of a relationship, would have the bloke running for the hills I imagine?

mood

unregistered wrote: »

But I guess I pretend that its not a problem (at the start)..and I guess I try to make out I'm quite a relaxed person......to make a big issue of stuff like this at the very start of a relationship, would have the bloke running for the hills I imagine?

I think this is where are going wrong. If a guy (or girl for that matter) think you are fine with it he will continue to do it and not know it bothers you. I don't mean you should nag the crap out of a guy from day one but just letting each other know what you don't put up with in a nice way shouldn't be that much of a problem. Surely it's better things don't go beyond a week rather than be with a guy for 6 months and being constantly let down???

Neyite

unregistered wrote: »

When relationships begin, I make out that I'm fine with all this cancelling at the last minute stuff.

But I guess I pretend that its not a problem (at the start)..and I guess I try to make out I'm quite a relaxed person......to make a big issue of stuff like this at the very start of a relationship, would have the bloke running for the hills I imagine?

see... here it is. you are moving the goalposts a while into the relationship when there is an understanding that you are ok with things. your not ok with it, and hey, its ok not to be, but its not exactly fair that after a few weeks of you being understanding and cool, a guy gets dumped for it.

just because you are a good timekeeper does not mean that you are not relaxed. i wont wait around in a pub on my own unless i know for a fact the person i am meeting is on the way - and i tell them this. in a nice jokey way, but the point still gets across.

if someone is hours late meeting you, go home. if they then ring, say very nicely, 'nah i didnt feel comfortable waiting on my own so i came home, im in my PJs (and no, you cant come over ) so we can arrange some other night' they will know from this, that a) they better call you before you leave the house if they are delayed, or b) send you a text to say they are on the way and give you a specific time to be there. and they will know that you are nicely firm and wont be a pushover.

delays happen in life - and i imagine that you would be ok if you got a timely text to cancel, not the last minute stuff. but if you are not ok with something, you need to speak up before it builds up.

Zen65

unregistered wrote: »

And you're right, I probably don't make it crystal clear that this stuff annoys me at the start. When relationships begin, I make out that I'm fine with all this cancelling at the last minute stuff. I guess I want the guy to think I have a wonderful life apart from him, and am not waiting around for him to ring/take me out whatever.

You are right to have high standards, but you should share them early in the relationship. Men & women can work towards a common accepted set of behaviours to make a relationship work (yes, all relationships involve some compromise) but you cannot compromise with a moving target. So, at your next relationship, start by setting out some ground rules early (by the second or third date, I suggest) and let your partner know that these are important to you.

Be at peace,


Z

LegacyUser

I am flakey about arrangements and getting back to people, and so is my OH. As we are the same, it doesn't bother us about the other person. I think this is just a compatibility thing - my sister and her husband are both total sticklers for punctuality and they are always there when they say they will be. Either way is not right or wrong - it's just about meeting someone who is similar to you. I really think you have to set the benchmark for your own behaviour at the beginning of the relationship.

When the guy rings 3 hrs late, and you are annoyed, then don't answer it, and only text him back when you are either genuinely not annoyed or able to convey your annoyance. This is *not* to change his behaviour - it is to help you to remind yourself that you are in control of *your* behaviour.

The pattern you are playing out is giving yourself no control over the pace or structure of the relationship, acting a victim, and then yanking the control back in the end by breaking it off. If the guy does or doesn't do something that bothers you - make sure you take enough time to think it through before you get in touch with him. Don't rush to reply - it will stop you from feeling that the relationship is all give on your side.

LegacyUser

unregistered wrote: »

Or should I loosen my standards and accept the smaller stuff (even though it p1sses me off) so that I am IN a relationship with a bloke I like?

Your standards are your standards, and don't let anyone tell you that your standards are wrong. Your friends are not in your position, and haven't a clue what it's like to be single when in your thirties. I bet if they were in your position, they'd have the same outlook.

Instead of changing your standards, why don't you change the way you react when someone doesn't meet your standards? Instead of breaking up with them, talk to them about it in a non confrontational way. It takes a lot more than a few dates to find out what a potential partner is like, and you can't expect them to conform exactly to your standards. There has to be some compromise for a relationship to get off the ground.

LegacyUser

'The pattern you are playing out is giving yourself no control over the pace or structure of the relationship, acting a victim, and then yanking the control back in the end by breaking it off. If the guy does or doesn't do something that bothers you - make sure you take enough time to think it through before you get in touch with him. Don't rush to reply - it will stop you from feeling that the relationship is all give on your side.'

You've put that really well...and you are perfectly right. You have seriously given me something to think about. That's exactly how I've been behaving, except I couldn't have put it like that myself. I have learned alot from my last relationship, and have made promises to myself abut my behaviour in the next one. I often feel that a relationship is all give on my side, although I wouldn't have thought I was playing the victim...but perhaps I am.
Thanks for that input - I really appreciate it.

Cheap Thrills!

Btw your friend sounds like a doormat with a pita husband so I'd take all her advice with a pinch of salt.

jimmycrackcorm

I'm going to grab the ball of criticism and go long with this just to open the point of view.

Consider it internet therapy questions....

unregistered wrote: »

So I'm female, late 30s and single.

Off to a bad start then

I've had a few long term relationships, but always knew they were going nowhere from the start.

Do I really need to spell out what that says?
- didn't give them a chance
- Fussy?

But I stuck around, because they were nice guys and made me happy at the time. I knew there was no future though.

Treated them like that?

So now I find myself out there, and 'dating', have tried some internet stuff, tried joining a club, tried to make contact with friends 'single male' friends etc. I have been 'successful' in that I have always gotten a few dates etc. So I don't feel like my problem is in attracting men.

So you are attractive like most people, but.

I don't think this is a relationship issue either, which is why I've posted in PI. I feel that I am a very normal, down to earth, 30something year old female who has no standards when it comes to how men look or what their job is. Or even if they have a job. I am always attracted to personality. But there are things that really annoy me about recent boyfriends - 'I'll ring you tomorrow at 6...' (he rings at 9)....'we'll go out thursday night'..(have to cancel because I'm working late)...'I don't want a serious relationship'...(goes on to find a serious relationship with the next woman) and the list is endless.

Now it gets complicated.
you are attracted to personality but you don't give anyone a chance from the start.You have no standards - really? Everyone has standards - which standards are you picking?

I can't figure out the rest between the, simply late phone call, and the rejection of the serious relationship which you rejected from the start.

I feel like I take the moral high ground all the time.

Now we are getting somewhere - self-analysis....

I feel like my standards about how I should be treated are normal,

You had no standards!!!
but you do now.

but apparently (according to married friends) they are unrealistic.

and you have smart firends

If he says he'll ring at 6, that means 7, they say.

I'm a guy - can't argue with that one.

Of course he has to work late, sure it's a recession they say.

And I sure know that one.

I get pretty p!ssed off when I'm let down for a date, to the point where I have broken up with blokes who have rang 4 hours later than they say they'd ring, even though in every other way, they are pretty nice guys.

Hi fussy, nice to meet you.

Am I just getting old? See, I put up with all this stuff from men in my 20s...and I've really had enough. But I find myself walking away from more and more men in the past few years, over stuff that they, or my pals, would consider pretty trivial stuff.

Some time later, you will know what trivial is and trivial isn't - learn to discern it.

I am very, very far from a demanding woman...in fact, I've been walked all over by my family most of my life. But I think it's the little things that make a relationship work, the being on time for a date, the doing what you said you would do stuff....and when I'm let down with the smaller stuff, I'm gone.

Yes and no. In a relationship, the little things don't matter and the important stuff does. It's comparable to other clichés....

But somehow I'm drawn to your point, that it is actually correct - the little things don't matter. Just don't collect them like a knockout competition.

And here I am. Single, late thirties with no sign of a bloke.

I'm being absolutely mischevious writing the question - Are you really wondering why?

Am I one of those women who just hasn't met the right man yet??? Or should I loosen my standards and accept the smaller stuff (even though it p1sses me off) so that I am IN a relationship with a bloke I like?

Well, well, well.
Here we are at the epitome of your analysis.

one by one...
Yes, you are one of those one of the women who hasn't met the right bloke yet.
Yes you are one of those women who will never meet the right bloke.

Should you loosen your standards?

I am a very normal, down to earth, 30something year old female who has no standards

But I think it's the little things that make a relationship work, the being on time for a date, the doing what you said you would do stuff....and when I'm let down with the smaller stuff, I'm gone.

A relationship is characterized by the important stuff. Otherwise India and Pakistan would have nuked themselves to bits over a volley of shots in Kashmir.

There is nor perfect partner - there is give and take. You have only listed your expectations. try posting where you have given...

Moomoo1

jimmy, you are taking her out of context. She says that she has no standards regarding looks and a job but high standards regarding reliability and punctuality. There's no contradiction there.

jimmycrackcorm

In fairness to you op, I am going to continue you PI analysis rather that doing a simple post analysis.

Let us beign your therapy - sorry - the internet post therapy...

unregistered wrote: »

Thanks for that.

Of course, I've just split up with someone which is what has prompted my question. He was everything a girl could ask for - attentive, loving, caring, affectionate etc.

So, you are superwoman except, according to you, not sexy, otherwise you would have mentioned it...?

But he was the most unreliable guy I've ever met.

Scooby doo says "yikes"

So he was all of the above things when we were in company. But he constantly didn't ring when he said he would, changed dates ten minutes beforehand, said we'd go places/do things that we never got round to (he never got round to) and the list goes on. He always had a perfectly good reason or excuse why he didn't follow through with stuff.

Ok, I'm just going to go for whine here.

My (married) friend who I would confide in most about men would forever tell me that her hubby was worse and that she had found a compromise for herself - a long time ago, she stopped depending on him or believing anything he said (about times/meeting up etc) which meant that she got less stressed, and also meant that if she had no expectations of him, everything they actually did, was a bonus. She said she wrote down his good and bad points and that the good far outweighed the bad, so she decided to stick with him because there are far worse men out there.

There ARE no Worse men out there.
This is what us men are.
You're expectations are not our expectations. When you have a "headache" when we want to have sex - do we start a new thread on PI?

Tell me, did you even pause for a second when she paused to medtion - that horrible word: compromise.

That horrible word - horrible because, for you, me and everyone, it does all mean: - To give in.

I just couldn't put up with his behaviour any more though and having left him to go home on a thursday with his words 'I'll call you saturday and we'll do something ok?' (he rang on sunday!!), I finished with him. Yes, I could have phoned him myself but I don't think it's too much to ask for someone to ring when they say they will, do you?

If you are a hot chick then, I'm getting a bit stuck.
If you aren't, move on.

jimmycrackcorm

Moomoo1 wrote: »

jimmy, you are taking her out of context. She says that she has no standards regarding looks and a job but high standards regarding reliability and punctuality. There's no contradiction there.

I don't think so. I'd bet most women would identify with what the op is saying and with my points.

How is there no contradiction - do you, actually, really, feel any contradiction in your own relationship? There wont be because the contradiction you point out does not exist normally.

Your point is interesting though.


If, you are talking about standards regarding reliability and punctuality, then,
define these standards.

And tell us why standards should be different.

Moomoo1

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I don't think so. I'd bet most women would identify with what the op is saying and with my points.

How is there no contradiction - do you, actually, really, feel any contradiction in your own relationship? There wont be because the contradiction you point out does not exist normally.

You've lost me here. I've said that the contradiction you point out isn't there. It's very possible to not be choosy about looks and jobs, but be picky about punctuality.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Your point is interesting though.


If, you are talking about standards regarding reliability and punctuality, then,
define these standards.

And tell us why standards should be different.

Why should I define those standards? It's up to the OP to do that: they are her standards after all.

LegacyUser

Thanks for that jimmy. Not sure why you think I have to be a hotchick or I should move on though??????

I have standards when it comes to how I feel I should be treated in a relationship.

I don't have standards when it comes to looks/finances etc.