Almost forgotten Great Irish dishes

The Sweeper

My mother cooks bacon and cabbage.

She takes a piece of brined bacon and boils it, then boils a shredded york cabbage in the bacon water. Each leaf of cabbage destalked and stacked, then rolled before the strips are cut off it - it goes into the bacon water and is cooked for about five minutes. It still has a crunch to it.

She then boils floury potatoes and mashes them with real butter and a splash of cream. She makes a white sauce and adds fresh chopped parsley. The bacon is served in slices, with just-crunchy cabbage spiced with black pepper, plus spoons of creamy mash and a pouring over of fresh parsley sauce.

There is absolutely nothing whatsoever, at all, in any way, remotely unappetizing, inelegant or in any way wrong with that meal.

CJhaughey

Mellor wrote: »

Same for the fish, you said we (the irish) don't eat much fish. I'd disagree, seafood was always a big part of irish "cuisine" ( ) for may years, but obviously it was only in certain areas that had access to ports and the sea, Galway and Dublin would be perfect examples of this.
Galway Bay Oysters
Dublin Bay Prawns.
It makes perfect sense, that people living in central ireland wouldn't eat a lot of fish out of availability. So when these people or thier families moved to dublin, it also makes sense that they stick with the bacon and cabbage diet.

I respectfully disagree, the Irish eat very very little seafood given that we are an Island nation.
I was told by people that Mullet will poison you, same for mackerel. That fish would be the first to poison you.
All manner of old wives tales about fish and seafood in general.
There is no real traditional dishes involving seafood, either which is very strange. Can you think of many traditional Irish cooked seafoods?
Apart from Coddle which traditionally used Cod roe as part of the ingredient list.
Dublin Bay prawns are a relatively recent phenomenon, with Prawns and Monkfish being discarded up to 30 years ago.
Skate in Dublin would be traditional but given the Irish Sea is largely suitable for the catching of Ray species then it is not surprising.
Even these days finding a good seafood restaurant is not easy, even good fish and chips is hard to find.
It is changing but slowly.

Sparks

Mellor wrote: »

Are you originally from dublin Sparks? I find the way you describe food typical of central ireland, when I was in collage, all my friends were bacon and cabbage men and they all over cooked everything.
Same for the fish, you said we (the irish) don't eat much fish. I'd disagree, seafood was always a big part of irish "cuisine" ( ) for may years, but obviously it was only in certain areas that had access to ports and the sea, Galway and Dublin would be perfect examples of this.
Galway Bay Oysters
Dublin Bay Prawns.
It makes perfect sense, that people living in central ireland wouldn't eat a lot of fish out of availability. So when these people or thier families moved to dublin, it also makes sense that they stick with the bacon and cabbage diet.

It's a nice theory; but I'm from Tralee originally, only a stone's throw from the water and the focal point for anyone coming from any of the small local ports like Fenit; and it wasn't just my mother's cooking I ate growing up, and all of it matched the descriptions I gave, it wasn't just that my mother was extraordinarily bad at cooking.

Nevyn

Little Alex wrote: »

Thanks for that, Thaedydal.

Just one thing... what sort of colour is it? It sounds like it would be quite pale, no?

Yes it's a creamy colour with the 'soup' looking like onion soup.

Nevyn

CJhaughey wrote: »

I respectfully disagree, the Irish eat very very little seafood given that we are an Island nation.
I was told by people that Mullet will poison you, same for mackerel. That fish would be the first to give you poison you.
All manner of old wives tales about fish and seafood in general.

Because only poor people ate fish, given the pasture land and the reverence for the cow in Ireland as the standard unit of value (brehon law speaks of people being worth 3 cows or having to pay a fine of good to the value of half a cow) was a cow, only the islanders who couldn't rear or keep cows or pigs due to space or the poorest of the poor ate fish regularly.

And then there was the catholic prohibition on eating meat on Wednesdays and Fridays and all manner of holy days so that eating fish became a punishment and not something you enjoyed or did willing when you didn't have to.

It's changing slowly but surely but it will take a long time, I reckon.

CJhaughey

Thaedydal wrote: »

It's changing slowly but surely but it will take a long time, I reckon.

Yup the new generation that have enjoyed the delights of fresh seafood cooked well, will be the driving force.
It amazes me that we don't treasure our seafood more.
We have lovely fresh Albacore tuna now, caught by Irish boats around Ireland.
But people don't know and still opt for tinned skipjack, incredible.

farmerval

In our rural household, meat was more for substance than fancy, apart from the occasional treat like a leg of lamb. But for visitors or occasions fancy cakes etc were mor ethe norm. In those days people rarely if ever cane for dinner, dinner being in the middle of the day, they came for tea, which was invariably cold meat, salad etc followed by home baked cakes etc.

Sparks

CJhaughey wrote: »

It amazes me that we don't treasure our seafood more.
We have lovely fresh Albacore tuna now, caught by Irish boats around Ireland.
But people don't know and still opt for tinned skipjack, incredible.

Can't find anywhere locally to buy it - and can't shake the notion that you have to be able to trust your fishmonger (which is a bit hard in a nation where fish hasn't been well treated for the last few centuries). Wouldn't mind getting some though - nothing quite as nice as seared tuna loin and sesame seeds...



Only downside is that you really do need a BBQ grill for that one

Nevyn

There are very few fish mongers and the van and stall at the side of the road on a friday never inspired much confidence tbh. There are some but generally it's too far to travel and due to the lack of demand more costly then it should rightly be given we are an Island nation so most people are left looking at the 4 foot counter wedges in beside the butchers counter in the supermarket and that rarely inspires any one.

Which is daft considering how easy fish is to cook, esp in a tin foil packet with some herbs, a bit of butter and maybe a squeeze of a lemon in the oven for a short ammount of time.

john hanrahan

its up to chefs to create the cuisine, our ingredients are very good
we don't appreciate our ingredients here, i am just back from france where the food varies from stunning to horrendous.

but in france they celebrate the quality of there cuisine , on the 'route de fromage' i ate celebrated cheese but i would find better in cork or clare, yet we don't make enough of what we have.

the ingredients are there its up the chefs to create the cuisine and for it to be supported by customers who want better food.

food in ireland is or has been about sustenance not enjoyment

Sparks

Thaedydal wrote: »

There are very few fish mongers and the van and stall at the side of the road on a friday never inspired much confidence tbh. There are some but generally it's too far to travel and due to the lack of demand more costly then it should rightly be given we are an Island nation so most people are left looking at the 4 foot counter wedges in beside the butchers counter in the supermarket and that rarely inspires any one.

Too damn true

mathepac

Mellor wrote: »

... cuisine is an english word ...

Ah well, "C'est la vie" as they say beyond in Tuamgreaney.

These recipes are for scones, pronounced to rhyme with bones. If you want recipes for scones that rhyme with another word, sorry, these ain't it .

White Scone Version

Pre-heat your oven to 220 deg C (temperature and time work with my smallish fan-oven, but you may need to experiment with your own for optimum results)

Dry Ingredients
225 grams of white, self-raising flour
2 tablespoons of white sugar
tiny pinch of salt

Wet Ingredients
1 beaten egg
3 tablespoons of fresh whole milk
50 grams of margerine cut into small cubes

Method
Mix flour and salt in a large mixing bowl, then rub the margerine pieces into the flour, adding the sugar after the last of the margerine is mixed in.

Add the beaten egg gradually, mixing all the time, followed by the milk, again mixing constantly.

This mixing should produce a soft dough, to be kneaded quickly on a lightly floured table / board.

Roll out the dough until it is 1.5cm thick and cut into 5cm circles using a dough-cutter or a small cup / glass

Put the scones on a lightly greased baking tray and bake for 12-15 mins. Remove from the oven and let the scones cool on the tray before finally cooling them on a wire rack / trivet.

IME, these are best eaten cold with butter and jam / cream and jam. I've tried serving them hot but annoyingly they crumble too easily.

This little beauties have excellent green credentials; as the cooking time is so short, prepare them in advance and pop them in the oven after your casserole / roast has finished.


Brown Scone Version

Pre-heat your oven to 230 deg C (temperature and time work with my smallish fan-oven, but you may need to experiment with your own for optimum results)

Dry Ingredients
125 grams of plain flour
125 grams of wholemeal flour
0.75 teaspoon of bread soda
1 dessertspoon of white sugar
tiny pinch of salt

Wet Ingredients
115 mls of buttermilk

Method
Mix dry ingredients in a large mixing bowl, then add the buttermilk, mixing constantly.

Knead the dough to an elastic consistency on a lightly floured table / board.

Roll out the dough until it is 1 cm thick and cut into 5cm circles using a dough-cutter or a small cup / glass

Put the scones on a lightly greased baking tray and bake for 15 - 17 mins.

IME, these are best eaten warm with butter. Unlike the white scones, they tend not to crumble (coarser flours, buttermilk, no fat??)

Mellor

CJhaughey wrote: »

There is no real traditional dishes involving seafood, either which is very strange. .

There are, put they are typically "Irish", and not only found here. But the first two I thought of was Fish pie and Cockles and Mussels.

At the end of it all, i can't really comment or know how much fish other ate or are eating. I was roughly a once a week thing in my house. The strange part:

As a child, I loved going fishing (and eating our catch) with my Dad and Uncle, a small trout can feed a family in the eyes of a child.

When I was a teen, I wasn't crazy on fish (except batter smoked cod obviously), never tasted prawns until I was 21.

Since I've move halfway around the world, I'm buying fish every week, and coming up with all sorts. Tonight is prawns with garlic and herbs, tossed with lettuce and mandarin served with a cottage cheese dip. Defo not Irish.


So, back on track and more recipes please

Nevyn

Little Alex wrote: »

Something inside me desperately wants to fry the sausages beforehand to brown them up a bit...

My mam is actually from (County) Dublin. I must ask her how come it was never made.

Blasphemy!
I remember a disparaging remark about one of the neighbours from my granny which had all her cronies shaking their heads and tutting and it was.
"That one, she frys the sausages for the coddle.". She was a Mayo woman who lived off Dorest street when she first moved to Dublin.

Where as my other grandmother my Nana would never cook coddle, her was brought up in Irishtown by the sea and never cooked "tenement dishes".

Coddle is a inner city Dublin dish, would have been a staple around the docks and tenements and the red light district.

Coddle can be kept as a perpetual pot as long as the water is added the next day and more meat/veg added to the basic stock, it was something which could be taken off the heat and put back on with out spoiling, made the morning for later at night or made the night before.

So on certain streets in Dublin there would always be a pot of coddle on the go.

thirtythirty

LoL the "Irish cuisine" people keep talking about.

That would imply there is some sort of culinary art to the abominations of food creations.

Seriously, Irish "cuisine", or "smush" as I like to call it, was not created out of curiosity and experimental food design, but by grabbing whatever was sticking out of the ground, smushing it together whatever dead animal was available, and sometimes adding water to dilute the disgusting taste!

olaola

My two cents on the fish scenario - we don't have a market culture. We go to the large chain supermarket once a week to do a 'shop' and that doesn't lend to getting fresh fish. Other countries where people eat fish more often will pop around to their LOCAL market and get the fish at a decent price, without feeling ripped off.

The Sweeper

spottyelephant wrote: »

LoL the "Irish cuisine" people keep talking about.

That would imply there is some sort of culinary art to the abominations of food creations.

Seriously, Irish "cuisine", or "smush" as I like to call it, was not created out of curiosity and experimental food design, but by grabbing whatever was sticking out of the ground, smushing it together whatever dead animal was available, and sometimes adding water to dilute the disgusting taste!

I don't get how people feel so strongly about something that simply isn't accurate.

If you had shit food at home when you were little, that's because your ma, or your granny, or whoever was rearing you, couldn't cook.

If your memory of bacon and cabbage is slop, that's because you've been eating bacon and cabbage cooked by someone who can't cook bacon and cabbage.

If you've had Irish stew that was slop, that's because you've been eating Irish stew cooked by someone who can't cook Irish stew.

What fabulousness are you hankering for?

A slice of fresh, still-warm soda bread, with real Irish creamery butter, some melted into it and some rich and yellow on top, with a fresh, free-range egg from a chicken that hasn't been tortured in a cage? How good is that?

Native fish, caught and cooked on a pan in a knob of butter? It can be hard to get when you're used to supermarket shopping, but I've had it, I've enjoyed it, it's a memory of my childhood.

The history of Irish food is complicated. Yes, it's peasant food, because we were colonised and some things were denied to us. Something I learned from Darina Allen's books - and love her or hate her, the woman most certainly did her research - include the following:

The population of Ireland was eight million people before the famine. Bolstered by the extremely rich diet of potatoes and buttermilk - high in vitamin C, high in fat, and rich in everything else you need to make you healthy - there was a population explosion. When the staple crop failed, people died in their millions - but if you get your hands on a list of exports from Irish harbours in a single day at the height of the famine, you realise it was a famine of one crop.

Some shellfish are still scorned in areas of the west of Ireland and the islands, because they were 'famine food', the shores covered with starving foragers at low tide picking cockles, periwinkles, so on.

These are the historical facts of the origins of Irish cooking. However, this is a country that has a climate and soil that lends itself to fantastic dairy, and fantastic pig products - and trust me if you travel, you'll soon learn how difficult it is to get cuts of pork brined and cured the way they are in Ireland, and the flavours simply aren't as good. Butter, milk, cheese - they really, really are fabulous in Ireland - you just don't get the grazing in other countries. I have to drive 45 minutes out of the town I live in to find a shop that stocks a creamery butter made in Tasmania to get anything that tastes like Irish butter - and other butters aren't as good, they're slightly sour, almost rancid out of the packet. I make the drive because there's a difference to my baking and cooking when I use better butter.

Milk, butter, cheese, buttermilk, sodabread - these are store cupboard basics that are way ahead in quality in Ireland than they are in other areas. These are comfort foods, basic ingredients, and they are star quality - and spend a little time with the lastest trendsetters in modern cuisine and they will show you and tell you how important it is to be able to appreciate the basics; simplicity, local produce, quality, flavour, freshness. If you cannot recognise and appreciate these things, you will continue to miss the point on more complex dishes.

I guess I'm actually disappointed by the sheer tone of scorn, belittlement and begrudgery from some posters on this thread. If you can see no good in anything, it's little wonder the country's in the toilet tbh.

Qualitymark

kylith wrote: »

Very true. That's why the French invented so many sauces; to hide the tast of the meat. England was so famous for good beef that the only sauce the needed was the meat's juices; i.e. gravy.

True - English restaurant food of the Edwardian era was famous for being hearty and delicious.

I'd love to know about the Irish yogurts and cheeses that were famous in mediaeval and pre-mediaeval times. Bog butter is sometimes found buried in crocks, perfectly preserved, but I don't suppose yogurt or cheese could be preserved for thousands of years in the same way.

I wonder if skyr and viilli, for instance, were originally brought from Ireland northwards by Irishwomen who were traded as slaves or captured by piratic northmen. They (the yogurts) are now firmly ensconsed in their Scandinavian persona, but maybe they were originally Irish.

(When the Scandinavians went to America in the 19th century, they used to bring a kerchief that had been soaked in their local yogurts with them. When they got to where they were going, they soaked the kerchief in boiled, warm milk and kept it warm overnight, and got a first batch of yogurt, and continued to make it from that first batch.)

The Hill Billy

I've moved some off-topic posts to a new thread. Please stick to discussing Great Irish Recipies here.

Thanks,

HB

Kimia

spottyelephant wrote: »

Nope, I had amazing food and never had to suffer the likes of a cabbage and bacon dinner. Braised pork loin with homemade stuffing, potatoe gratin, and endless sidedishes were the norm (well not the norm, but frequent!).

In my opinion "Traditional" irish food is shi//te. Just varying degrees of shi//te depending on how it's cooked. There's no two ways about it. BUT having said that, I have zero problem with people disagreeing with me, or who love it, each to their own.

FYP

Excellent post Sweeper, I agree. My mother unfortunately was of the type who overcook everything and mash everything together (bless her, and she loves it), but my grandmothers (both of them) are talented traditional cooks, and I as a result am a HUGE foodie fan and amateur myself.

Home made bread, beautiful savoury mashed potato with real butter and softened onions, delicately flavoured fish and the richest and most delicious desserts of all shapes and sizes is a staple when I go home. mmm

Acoshla

The Sweeper wrote: »

I don't get how people feel so strongly about something that simply isn't accurate.

If you had shit food at home when you were little, that's because your ma, or your granny, or whoever was rearing you, couldn't cook.

If your memory of bacon and cabbage is slop, that's because you've been eating bacon and cabbage cooked by someone who can't cook bacon and cabbage.

If you've had Irish stew that was slop, that's because you've been eating Irish stew cooked by someone who can't cook Irish stew.

This is exactly what I was going to say. My Nan's bacon and cabbage, her warm soda bread, or my mother's fresh scones or Irish stew are to die for, because they are cooked well. Don't blame the ingredients if your mother couldn't cook them properly!

Irish food might not have the same tradition of certain spices or flavours as some other countries, which to some people can mean it has no pros and all cons, but a well cooked traditional meal of fresh veg, potatoes and fish or meat with herbs, etc (and skill!) is absolutely gorgeous, and I hate that some people are slating Irish food based on bad home cooking or a lack of what they see as exotic tastes and flavours used abroad.

Qualitymark

Good Irish cooking usually relies on ingredients which are spectacularly pure in flavour - delicious, tender grass-fed beef, mouthwatering spring lamb, succulent pork, flavoursome chicken.

The potatoes are so sweet in Ireland that diabetics are sometimes advised to avoid them. Irish potatoes are floury, drinking in the butter and salt that's traditionally served with them.

The vegetables - well, my French nephew couldn't believe how gorgeous Irish vegetables were; "Poor France," he kept saying on his first visit! (This doesn't include hot-weather vegetables like tomatoes, or hot-weather fruits like peaches, which are much nicer on the continent, of course.)

The milk and cream and butter are exceptional too, and Irish baking is beyond compare, as are the traditional jellies like apple jelly with cloves or rhubarb jam with ginger.

And the fish - when you eat freshly-caught Irish fish and freshly-gathered Irish shellfish, it's incomparable.

leahyl

dh0661 wrote: »

Corned beef & cabbage - My Dad's from Cork originally and it's his specialty any time he has to cook dinner.

MMMMM I know it well...being a proud corkonian an all:D

The Sweeper

Okay this is really starting to irritate me.

Could anyone who has nothing but bitter begrudgery to contribute to this thread, stfu and go post a separate thread entitled "Why I think all things to do with Irish food are a crock of shite" and have their little rants there?

Either that or briefly rename the forum 'Cooking and Recipes for Miserable Bastards', that might fit nicely.


/edited to add that since Hill Billy's much appreciated editing, the post I was reacting to is no longer here - in case anyone reads the above and thinks 'wtf? was that at me??'

The Hill Billy

Euskadi wrote: »

Hello All,
I've just finihed an absolutely delicious typical Dublin coddle from a recipe my granny gave me over 20 years ago,it tasted great. There really are some great traditional irish dishes out there,when I say traditional I MEAN traditional and not something new with a "traditonal irish" tag assigned to it which is the case on countless restaurant menus.
Another one that comes to mind is tripe boiled in milk with onions,like coddle it doesn't look like much,but its delicious and what about crubeens,or boiled pigs feet as they are to us Dubs

any more?,well,lets wait and see

Thanks for listening.

I've delete yet more off-topic posts & have reposted the above to remind you all what this thread is about.

It is not an opportunity to slag off your Mammy's cooking or whatever. That's probably worthy of a separate thread.

The OP is looking for your opinions on what are great Irish dishes.
Keep it positive, keep it on-topic.

Thanks,

HB

cathy01

Just done my sons 18 bithday party.I served a huge pot of coddle, with big becon peices.Went down a treat.cathy

Drake66

Cool thread. A lot of people would be surprised at the range of traditional Irish culinary dishes; not including "traditional Irish Breakfast" or other bastardisations. Regina Sexton down in Cork is a fantastic culinary historian and food writer who has written on the subject. Her book "A little history of Irish food" is a great read I think.

Her recipe for Stampy is very good

225g of Raw Potato
225g of cooked mashed potato
25g of butter
55ml of double cream
2 teaspoons of caraway seeds
110g caster sugar
225g of self-raising flour

Peel and grate up the raw spuds. Put them in the centre of a clean teatowel; hold it over a bowl and wring to extract the starch liquid. Allow the liquid to settle so that the starch rests at the bottom of the bowl; it takes around 2hrs.

Transfer the grated spuds to a bowl. Mash the cooked spuds with the butter and the cream. Sit the mash on top of the grated spuds in the bowl. When the starch has settled pour off the surface liquid and add the starch to the bowl with mashed and grated spuds. Season well.

Mix the caraway seeds with the sugar and add to the bowl. Sieve the flour into the bowel now and make dough. Knead the dough on a floured board. Cut it into farls and bake them for 30-40 mins.

Drake66

Traditional irish fritters described by oscar wilde's dad.

Finely slice up some waxy potatoes and allow them to dry. Steep in brandy for 2 hrs to absorb the flavour. Dip them in a well seasoned batter and fry to a light brown. Dust with powdered sugar and serve

username123

In my house it wasnt bacon pieces used in the coddle but rashers of streaky bacon - very tasty!! I tried to make coddle myself years later but it was never quite the same - I will give the recipie here a bash (with the streaky rashers though for nostalgia!!) - my mother would allow it to cool and skim the fat from the meat off it, then heat up to serve.

We also used to have a very nice lamb stew made with lamb skirts and a lot of lentils.

Pigs feet were also common in our house as was bacon and cabbage - we kids would fight over who got to drink the cabbage water (clever mother had made it to be a huge treat - when I 'won' I would drink it grimacing but happy I got the treat).

Ray deep fried in batter was another popular favourite in our home, I remember it would make your lips itchy.

I was only commenting recently to our local butcher how times have changed and whats for sale in the butchers is vastly different from what used to be there when I was a child.

Minder

Drake66 wrote: »

Traditional irish fritters described by oscar wilde's dad.

Finely slice up some waxy potatoes and allow them to dry. Steep in brandy for 2 hrs to absorb the flavour. Dip them in a well seasoned batter and fry to a light brown. Dust with powdered sugar and serve

Have you tried these? I want to make these. I WILL make these....:D