Tractor Watch (tractors on motorways thread)

Amtmann

I saw a combine harvester last night on the M8 Blackwater viaduct drawing its turbine behind it. It was unlit (at dusk!) and was taking up the emergency lane plus part of lane one on the main carriageway.

I called Fermoy Garda station and gave them a piece of my mind about fools who bring combines onto motorways. They agreed. When they called me back today it transpired that the Guards had given permission for the combine to use the motorway under escort, but had failed to tell the driver of the escorting vehicle (a white van with a flashing orange light) that he should drive behind, rather than in front of, the combine. In the end they were just cautioned.

mickydoomsux

More 'ah shoore it'll be grand' policing.

Why have a list of vehicles that are banned from the motorways if you just let them on if they ring you and then don't do anything serious about it when they don't do it properly?

whyulittle

Have encountered that loads of times on motorways. A wide load transporting plant machinary or prefabs, and the warning vehicle is driving in front of it. :rolleyes:

Stinicker

Encountered a Tractor and grain trailer myself yesterday on the M7 southbound between J10 & J11 south of Naas, I was coming into a bend doing about 120km and had to brake sharpish as a traffic jam appeared out of nowhere because of it. I was tempted to report it but didn't bother because this seems to be a regular occurance up there and nothing ever seems to be done about it.

NFD100

The guards really couldn't care less.

gmale

NFD100 wrote: »

The guards really couldn't care less.

In the first example the guards gave permission and then cautioned the drivers for not doing it properly! What would you want them to do? Arrest them, charge them, send them to court and prison? How much would that cost?

In the second example the guy didnt report it so how could the guards know? If there was a speed check or a checkpoint or a squad car on the road and the tractor was allowed just drive by then I would agree with you...but was there?

Whats the protocol for giving these types of vehicles permission for driving on Motorways?

Amtmann

gmale wrote: »

In the first example the guards gave permission and then cautioned the drivers for not doing it properly! What would you want them to do? Arrest them, charge them, send them to court and prison? How much would that cost?

Fine them for (1) driving in the emergency lane and (2) not having their lights on at dusk/dangerous driving. That wouldn't cost anything; in fact, it would generate money for the state.

scudster

Its not illegal to drive a tractor on a motorway once it can travel above 50km/h. Alot of fairly new tractor can achieve 50km/h or above so they are entitled to use motorways.

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/motorways/general-rules.html

Amtmann

scudster wrote: »

Its not illegal to drive a tractor on a motorway once it can travel above 50km/h. Alot of fairly new tractor can achieve 50km/h or above so they are entitled to use motorways.

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/motorways/general-rules.html

It is illegal to drive in the emergency lane though, which is what always ends up happening.

Plus, just because it is legal to drive some types of tractor on a motorway, that doesn't mean it's a good idea - least of all when perfectly good alternative routes are practically always available.

scudster

I agree with you on the driving on the hard shoulder bit. Its not smart at all. Your second point could be applied to L plate drivers. Theres far more of them using motorways than tractors. Tractors have same right to use motorways but I do see where the speed difference between them and cars would make them a hazard. Maybe they just need to be lit up better for motorway driving.

Redsoxfan

See it every so often on the M4 (between Maynooth and Celbridge). Have reported it once or twice. Can't recall which motorway I was on recently, but there was a tractor and trailer using the emergency lane/hard shoulder, travelling very slowly, sure enough, there was a van broken down/parked in the lane further up the road. Traffic was heavy and the tractor and trailer would have had to move out into the traffic to avoid the van. I didn't stick around to see the outcome...

Amtmann

scudster wrote: »

I agree with you on the driving on the hard shoulder bit. Its not smart at all. Your second point could be applied to L plate drivers. Theres far more of them using motorways than tractors. Tractors have same right to use motorways but I do see where the speed difference between them and cars would make them a hazard. Maybe they just need to be lit up better for motorway driving.

I think L drivers are a slightly separate issue, but I just cannot see ANY reason to allow tractors onto a motorway unless it is to strim verges as part of highway maintenance. I believe the RSA is planning an outright ban. I've emailed them to find out what the status is, and will post their reply as soon as I get it.

Redsoxfan

They should increase the minimum speed on a motorway while they are at it.

baalthor

Just on the motorway minimum speeds ...

The "Motorway Rules" signs at the M3/N52 junction contradict each other:

The Irish language sign says no vehicles under "30 msu" i.e 30mph - now why are they using mph?

The English sign says no vehicles under 30 km/h - surely the minimum speed is 50 km/h ?

Has any-one else noticed this or am I misreading the signs? I must try and get a picture next time ...

medoc

Has anyone any reason as to why the min speed is set at 50 km/h. Surely a faster speed would be more appropriate eg 65 or 70 km/h. On more than one ocasion I've encountered cars travelling at 50 to 60km/h on the M7 between Monasterevin and Newbridge. They caused large tailbacks due to cars and HVG's having to overtake. The road conditions were perfect at the time. Sorry this is slightly off topic.

There cant be any justification for Tractors to travel on Motorways unless during roadworks. If the road wasn't there they would have to travel through the towns anyway and there are no field accesses on the mothorway.

Stonewolf

I was under the impression there wasn't actually a minimum speed limit but that it was just a ban on vehicles incapable of a certain speed.

Redsoxfan

Stonewolf wrote: »

I was under the impression there wasn't actually a minimum speed limit but that it was just a ban on vehicles incapable of a certain speed.

I'm a bit unsure on that myself-the signs say 'slow vehicles (less than 50 km/h)', but I always thought that as long as the vehicle is capable of such a speed, then it was legal.

Stinicker

Another thing I spotted in a few places on the M8 up along on Wednesday was that alot of the 2" and 3" rock which is used as aggregate at the verge of the hard shoulder had been swept out into the blacktop of the hardshoulder itself. If you were unfortunate to be shoved into the hardshoulder driving over this stuff at >150km/h you would be in serious trouble.

I was doing about 165km/h when I blew a back tyre and had to make for the hardshoulder in a hurry and if this rubble had been there a tyre would have been the last of my worries.

mickydoomsux

Yeah, saw about 3 or 4 seperate patches of that on the stretch of motorway between Waterford and Kilkenny the other day.

Absolutely lethal when you think about it.

absolutegroove

Would this tractor be allowed on a Motorway? :eek:

Fast Forward to about 50 secs in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lmE17Dg23w

-Chris-

Jesus, that's probably even more dangerous than a slower tractor.

That being said, the motorway's probably the safest place for it. It shouldn't be on "normal" roads at that speed.

flazio

Stinicker wrote: »

Another thing I spotted in a few places on the M8 up along on Wednesday was that alot of the 2" and 3" rock which is used as aggregate at the verge of the hard shoulder had been swept out into the blacktop of the hardshoulder itself. If you were unfortunate to be shoved into the hardshoulder driving over this stuff at >150km/h you would be in serious trouble.

I was doing about 165km/h when I blew a back tyre and had to make for the hardshoulder in a hurry and if this rubble had been there a tyre would have been the last of my worries.

Maybe that's why they set the legal limit at 120km/h so that you have a better chance of recovery should something go wrong.
Irish motorways are not being built as unofficial autobahns.

freighter

I am a hgv driver and use the motorways all the time and never drive in lane 2. However I will get one point and a fine if the guards catch me overtaking a tractor on the motorway. What are we supposed to do?? stay behind them or risk losing our licence over these farmers.

-Chris-

I think Niceguyalways said in a Motors thread that the Gardai will normally consider a tractor to be a slow moving vehicle and HGVs are allowed in the outside lane in order to overtake them, as long as they don't cause a major hold up and they try and get back to their normal lane as quickly as possible.

freighter

-Chris- wrote: »

I think Niceguyalways said in a Motors thread that the Gardai will normally consider a tractor to be a slow moving vehicle and HGVs are allowed in the outside lane in order to overtake them, as long as they don't cause a major hold up and they try and get back to their normal lane as quickly as possible.

A mate of mine got done by the traffic corps. He was on the M8 and stuck behind a jcb fasttrac doing 60kmh. He had his indicator on for ages tryin to change lanes and no one would let him out. The traffic corps car then came along in the fast lane and strarted flashing him so he he moved out to overtake him. When he passed out and and moved back in the guard pulled him in and went mad. He said he was flashing him to stay there behind the tractor. He got fined anyway. He never stopped the tractor btw that day..:(

-Chris-

freighter wrote: »

A mate of mine got done by the traffic corps. He was on the M8 and stuck behind a jcb fasttrac doing 60kmh. He had his indicator on for ages tryin to change lanes and no one would let him out. The traffic corps car then came along in the fast lane and strarted flashing him so he he moved out to overtake him. When he passed out and and moved back in the guard pulled him in and went mad. He said he was flashing him to stay there behind the tractor. He got fined anyway. He never stopped the tractor btw that day..:(

That seems very unfair alright...

aujopimur

Tractors, learners, pedestrians, cyclists,all regular users of the M8 between Dunkettle and Watergrasshill.
Does anyone know why there is not signs prohibiting such users on this strech motorway.

NFD100

aujopimur wrote: »

Tractors, learners, pedestrians, cyclists,all regular users of the M8 between Dunkettle and Watergrasshill.
Does anyone know why there is not signs prohibiting such users on this strech motorway.

That is madness! There is going to be a horiffic accident.....................

Stinicker

NFD100 wrote: »

That is madness! There is going to be a horiffic accident.....................

Yeah especially coming the down the hill into Dunkettle, that could be nasty.

L1011

I phoned a cyclist in to Glanmire cop shop and the garda on the phone said "sure, thats not motorway when it goes to 100km/h".

If thats the level of knowledge of the local constabulary you're not going to see any enforcement!

Stinicker

MYOB wrote: »

I phoned a cyclist in to Glanmire cop shop and the garda on the phone said "sure, thats not motorway when it goes to 100km/h".

If thats the level of knowledge of the local constabulary you're not going to see any enforcement!

My undestanding was that the section down along there was still Motorway just with a 100km/h speed limit imposed. On Thursday at about 50 yards after the speed limit there was guards there shooting fish in a barrel as most cars came barrelling down into the 100km/h zone at about 130km/h.

Cookie_Monster

Just to make the point.

Any tractor that can go above 50 is allowed on the motorway so the likes of Fastracs should be allowed. However if it can go over 50 it's not entitled to be run on agri-diesel and should be paying for normal diesel. As no farmer is going to do this it effectively rules tractors out of using the motorway

cooltown

I saw a farmer that would have being aged about 70 driving down the Cashel bypass wait for it in lane 2! Everybody coming up behind him had to slam on their brakes! Very near accdient! He then moved into Lane 1 and stoped in between the hard sholder and lane 1! It was quite scary! He nearly caused a few crashes!

baalthor

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Just to make the point.

Any tractor that can go above 50 is allowed on the motorway so the likes of Fastracs should be allowed. However if it can go over 50 it's not entitled to be run on agri-diesel and should be paying for normal diesel. As no farmer is going to do this it effectively rules tractors out of using the motorway

Pretty much every modern tractor can go over 50 - and I'm sure they all use agri diesel !

donvito99

Combine Harvester on N11 Northbound short of the Bray/Fassaroe exit at 15.30 this afternoon. He looked as if he was taking a nap, half in the exit lane.

bazzachazza

I hate seeing Tractors on motorways they are generally poorly lit and in most cases travel at a speed significantly less than other road users. I have reported them to trafficwatch but generally by the time you finish your call they are off the motorway.

Use of your indicator is a signal of "INTENT" not a signal of "RIGHT". The phrase is MIRROR SIGNAL MIRROR MANOEUVRE. You shouldn't sit in a lane for ages with your indicator on, you watch in your mirror for a gap, then signal, then check you mirror, then change lane. Your basically telling people I AM changing lane, not I WANT to change lane please let me out.

Signalling

Signals are an indication of intent - they do not confer a right of way. The law requires you to signal your intention of doing things on the road. This means signalling properly before moving off, turning right or left, changing lanes, overtaking, slowing down or stopping. You must signal clearly and in good time. If you are not certain that your direction indicators or stop lamps, for whatever reason, are giving an adequate signal, use clear decisive hand signals as well.

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/traffic-lights-and-signals/motorists-cyclists-signals.html

L1011

Stinicker wrote: »

My undestanding was that the section down along there was still Motorway just with a 100km/h speed limit imposed. On Thursday at about 50 yards after the speed limit there was guards there shooting fish in a barrel as most cars came barrelling down into the 100km/h zone at about 130km/h.

Your understanding is completely correct, and the local Guards is wrong.

veryangryman

I think you will need to have a big fatal accident on one of the Motorways before this crap is stopped. Has anyone heard of any yet

Furet, can you change the thread title to include HQDCs/Motorways. Athlone bypass full of Roscommon farmers.

I never get it. With the speed they go, they might as well go through town - its less distance physically and probably quicker. Why do they do it? Any farmers on this thread, can you please advise the logic

Great idea for thread Furet.

Davidth88

Its one of the major differences between motorways here and in the UK

Any vehicle that can do more than 50km can join , however in the UK agricultural vehicles are banned.

I must admit the things I have seen on Irish motorways are incredible including.
push-bikes ( common between Lucan/Celbridge )

The amount of stopped cars is incredible , if people knew how dangerous the hard shoulder is they would not stop to , take a leak, make that phone call , have a nap or whatever.

I have seen a car stopped on the M7 near Kildare with kids playing in the hard shoulder , AND abut 300m behind with his ' ray gun ' out a Garda clocking people ......he must have seen these people , but there you go.

Pedestrians are common , esp on M4 towards Celbridge

Guys jumping of the bridge into the river between Celbridge/Lucan ( danger to them selves and motorists who were slowing down to have a gawk )

In the UK , if you stop , you are almost certainly on camera , within a short time a motorway cop/ or one of the pretend ranger-rovers will be there to see what is occuring

Please people DO NOT STOP ON THE MOTORWAY unless its a genuine emergency ( ie breakdown or something ) the hard shoulder is just about the most dangerous place most of us will ever be ( a combat zone may be more dangerous )

mickydoomsux

The other day (Saturday i think) at dusk i saw a convoy of six oldschool Vespa's riding along in the hard shoulder at maybe 40mph on the bit of motorway between Kilkenny and Waterford. Of course none of them had their lights on and one set of them was riding two abreast. They would have been scattered like bowling pins if someone had to pull in with a brake failure or something of that nature.

I see at least one example of easily lethal stupidity on the roads every day on my way to or from work. We really are very poor drivers as a nation.

trad

M 50 tractor004.jpg

M50 in Dublin, so it's happening on every motorway

mickydoomsux

Nice. Half in the left lane and half in the hard shoulder.

How does anyone do that and not realise how pig-**** thick it is?

Cookie_Monster

trad wrote: »

M50 in Dublin, so it's happening on every motorway

pity there no front plates, so can't even report it

trellheim

SI182/1997 IIRC

33. (1) A driver on a motorway shall not—


( a ) drive a vehicle against the direction of traffic flow;


( b ) drive a vehicle on or across any part of the motorway which is not a carriageway;


( c ) stop or park a vehicle on any part of a motorway;


( d ) drive a vehicle of a class for which an ordinary speed limit of not more than 50 mph is prescribed by regulations under section 44 (1) of the Road Traffic Act, 1961 in the traffic lane nearest the right hand edge of a carriageway having more than one traffic lane except where it is necessary to proceed in that lane due to an obstruction or because another lane or lanes is or are for the time being closed to traffic.

Stinicker

Davidth88 wrote: »

Please people DO NOT STOP ON THE MOTORWAY unless its a genuine emergency ( ie breakdown or something ) the hard shoulder is just about the most dangerous place most of us will ever be ( a combat zone may be more dangerous )

I got a blowout last week on the M8 and had to stop but even then I moved the car off the hardshoulder onto the grass median inside it. This proved to be good as it put extra separation between myself and other traffic, however because I was on the soft ground my jack sank into the ground and failed to lift the car enough to change the wheel. Thus I had to call my Breakdown Assistance (Quinn Direct) and they had a guy out to me in an hour.

I sat there for a few minutes in the car but still felt unsafe even though my warning triangle about 200 metres back was slowing them but the amount of rubber neckers was unbelievable. Two friendly lads in small vans pulled in to see if we needed help, (Guinness Van drivers are dead sound!).

My man arrived and complimented me on having the sense to get in off the hard shoulder, even though I could have managed to change the wheel had I left the car there, but as the blowout was on the drivers side I would be facing traffic myself and just hadn't the balls or lack of intelligence enough to chance it.

Davidth88

Stinicker wrote: »

I sat there for a few minutes in the car but still felt unsafe even though my warning triangle about 200 metres back was slowing them but the amount of rubber neckers was unbelievable. Two friendly lads in small vans pulled in to see if we needed help, (Guinness Van drivers are dead sound!).

My man arrived and complimented me on having the sense to get in off the hard shoulder, even though I could have managed to change the wheel had I left the car there, but as the blowout was on the drivers side I would be facing traffic myself and just hadn't the balls or lack of intelligence enough to chance it.

The advice is that you get out of your car and get up as far up the verge as you can ... of course if it's pouring rain then you are less inclined to do this

People are actually drawn into the hard shoulder by stationary cars , and the next thing you know .... bang crash ......

whyulittle

Absolute torrential shower came down on the M4/6 this afternoon. A couple of cars pulled into the hard shoulder, and would have been wiped out had anyone else decided to do so.

Empire o de Sun

I hate tractors on the motorway.

Better to have the entry regulations as pictorial rather than as text. And the minimum speed should be at least 70 km/h

-Corkie-

I love your thinking Empire but I see a problem... Youll get some thick redneck that will travel the Motorway even with the above sign up. He will tell the Guard that the tractor in the picture is only a 2 wheel drive and his is a 4x4 tractor so hi is allowed.........:rolleyes:

Empire o de Sun

Or probably thinks the sign allows him on.:rolleyes:

Amtmann

I got this from the RSA today:

Dear Shane,

Thank you for your email regarding the use of agricultural vehicles on motorways.

An extensive review was prepared by the Road Safety Authority on the Use of Agricultural and Works Vehicles on Irish Roads. Among the issues raised as part of this review was the issue of banning agricultural vehicles from driving on motorways. Please see below an extract from the consultation document:

6. MAXIMUM SPEED AND MOTORWAYS

ISSUE TO BE ADDRESSED
We need your views on introducing a maximum speed limit of 40 km/h for all agricultural tractors and to review the need to have all agricultural and work vehicles prohibited from driving on motorways.

POSSIBLE SOLUTION
A maximum speed limit of 40 km/h could be introduced for all agricultural tractors, similar as to that which applies to works vehicles, and by enforcing current regulation that prohibits vehicles that travel at less than 50 km/h from driving on motorways this would in turn prohibit agricultural vehicles from travelling on a motorway.

The findings of this review are currently with the Minister for Transport for his consideration, however unfortunately we cannot divulge any further details until the Minister has approved our recommendations. Once this has taken place, it is planned to publish an Information Note for stakeholders outlining our future proposals before drafting any new legislation governing the use of agricultural vehicles and it is expected that we will publish this document in the coming weeks. We will add you to our Stakeholder List to ensure that you receive future updates in this area via email.

Trusting this answers your query.

Regards

Vehicle Standards