GPU help (HD 6000 series problem)

Icyseanfitz

hey guys ive just found out that the adi hd 6000 series will be releasing around November,so im going to hold off buying a hd 5970, so i guess my question is will a gtx 460 1gig keep me going till the 6000 series release? and if so which one should i buy as there is so many of them . Also do ye think that the 6870 will be one of the first cards released and if so take a guess at how much ye think it will cost.

Overheal

Someones got a hole in his pocket..

Why not indulge in the high-fidelity DirectX-Reality graphics afforded in a Gentlemen's Lounge if you're going to be pissing away money on a bleeding edge card you'll only use for a couple months? My goodness.

If I spent 3 years gaming on an 8400M GS, you can wait for the 6 series. I think it would be an absolute waste of currency to buy an interim card. Lets not forget that theres how many major game releases planned before then? 2?

To answer your question bluntly, a GTX460 would last you till the HD 7xxx series. So yes, it would last you till the HD 6xxx series, if cost was no issue in the world.

Icyseanfitz

sorry if im coming off as having a ton of money because i dont im a student who doesnt get grants but i just turned 21 so i got a little bit of money and im also selling my laptop for around €650 (it is worth easily that btw:)), but i figure i could probably sell the gtx 460 again when i go for a 6870 as it will only be in a couple of months. This will actually be my first true gaming pc so im kinda going all out with it (i dont count my laptop as it wasnt upgradeable).

Icyseanfitz

also a question regarding say this gtx460, could i run three screens off of the one card or do you need to get more than one card

Overheal

it should run 3 yes.

I think you really need to think about this though, either buy And Stay with the 460 or wait for the unreleased HD 6xxx line. You won't get the money back out of the 460 you put into it.

Monotype

You can't use current nvidia cards with three monitors without a second card or adapters.

Icyseanfitz

eh might get around €100 for it if i sell it later and i might have a bit of money at xmas so il see, im thinking im going to go buy a multiscreen setup right now specs:

ASUS Motherboard
HAF 932 Limited Edition
Antec PSU (a bit overkill but i want to buy good now so i can use it for a long time with maybe some overclocking)
HDD
AMD x6 Processor
RAM 2x2gig
DVD Burner
GTX 460 1 gig
Speakers
3 x 23 inch LG screens

and if the 6870 turns out to be a great card il upgrade to that can anyone see any problems with RAM compatibility or any other problems?

Icyseanfitz

Monotype wrote: »

You can't use current nvidia cards with three monitors without a second card or adapters.

what do you mean adapters? could you please link one if you dont mind

Overheal

just balls to the wall huh. are you suuuure you dont have money?

uberpixie

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

also a question regarding say this gtx460, could i run three screens off of the one card or do you need to get more than one card

3 screens doing what exactly?
For Nvidia surround gaming (gaming of 2-3 screens) you need x2 cards in SLI

For displaying windows probably will work: But you would need to check it up with a little research. Some cards in the past have some with 3-4 outputs but were only able to run x2 of them at a time due to their design.

Overheal

http://forums.pureoverclock.com/showthread.php?t=9095



if you look at the release schedule, Antilles (aka Caribbean??) isn't coming out until 2011; so in the meantime theres to be no successor to the 5970

Icyseanfitz

Overheal wrote: »

just balls to the wall huh. are you suuuure you dont have money?

sure dont currently have a job that gives me about 7 hours a week on minimum wage :rolleyes: my hopes for my first build are solely relying on selling my gaming laptop, its a pretty good deal actually just seems like people dont have the money they once had come onnnn sell you thing sell

Monotype

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

what do you mean adapters? could you please link one if you dont mind

Expensive adapters like this which costs as much as another card.

Your options are:
1. The adapter/splitter
2. ATI card - in this case you MUST have one monitor with displayport (unless you can get a €100 displayport adapter - the cheap ones won't do.
3. Get two nVidia cards.

Icyseanfitz

Overheal wrote: »

http://forums.pureoverclock.com/showthread.php?t=9095



if you look at the release schedule, Antilles (aka Caribbean??) isn't coming out until 2011; so in the meantime theres to be no successor to the 5970

well i wouldnt buy the successor to the 5970 anyway as it will be priced like crazy when it first comes out id actually buy the 6870 and then buy another later on down the road (probably the same as what the 6970 would be anyway) when they get cheap. As for Nvidia not supporting multi screens, doesnt that seem a bit odd it would seem fairly common place to be able to do that these days??

Icyseanfitz

Monotype wrote: »

Expensive adapters like this which costs as much as another card.

Your options are:
1. The adapter/splitter
2. ATI card - in this case you MUST have one monitor with displayport (unless you can get a €100 displayport adapter - the cheap ones won't do.
3. Get two nVidia cards.

damn seems more complex than i thought it would be (cant anything be easy )

Icyseanfitz

ok would this ati 5850 card be a better choice for 3 screens
Would you be able to link me a 20-24 inch screen with a display port as i cant seem to find any

Monotype

Overheal wrote: »

Roadmap

You know a company are feeling comfortable when they release their lower end products first.

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

As for Nvidia not supporting multi screens, doesnt that seem a bit odd it would seem fairly common place to be able to do that these days??

It's only started appearing this generation of cards with eyefinity on the 5000 series and nvidias alternative. Before that it didn't really have much of a presence in gaming, requiring the splitter or a specialist card.

ATI's eyefinity needs one of the monitors to have displayport. Here's some monitors available with it. http://www.displayport.org/consumer/?q=content/devices#pcmonitors
The problem with it is that they are a good bit dearer (like at least an extra €50) than a lot of other monitors and not as big a selection.

nVidia's solution doesn't need display port, but two cards like that generates its own problem.

Also keep in mind the resolution of three monitors. That needs considerable GPU power behind it. Not trying to dissuade you, there's people managing with 5770s, but I'd say you'd really want a 5850.

Icyseanfitz

damn it cannot find any monitors with displayports on pixmania.ie you would think this wouldnt be so damn complicated

#014917

Also just to give in my two cents, from what I've heard Intel's quad cores are supposedely better for gaming the AMD's hexacores for now. Game don't rely on the six cores as much and at the moment only a few fully utizile quad cores. You may want to look into an i5 750 or 760 (basicly the same I think, just the 760 has a slightly higher stock clock).

Here's a useful guide if you want to look at alternitives and compare your components so your gpu isn't limited by your cpu and vice versa:
http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/The_FalconO6/CurrentLogicalPCBuyingGuide/Guide.png

Also since you seem to be having trouble with finding a display port moniter, 460s in SLI are very good performance/price according to that link, "significantly better" than the performance-price ratio of the 5870, altough it seems slightly more powerful. Although this may be troublesome if you require a display port moniter later if you do decide to upgrade to the 6xxx series, altough with two 460s i think you'd be perfectly fine if not overpowered enough for the next few years.

Monotype

I was trying to find some LG display port monitors to go with the ones you had picked out, but I discovered that LG don't seem to have any display port monitors at all!

Any of the screens can be displayport. Usually you want three the same size, but I've seen some setups where the screen in the centre is slightly bigger and it looks pretty good, so one of the side ones could be display port. But I suppose you have to be very careful that they look similar etc.

Maybe the 6000 series will make it easier.

lmimmfn

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

damn it cannot find any monitors with displayports on pixmania.ie you would think this wouldnt be so damn complicated

You are completely underestimating the power you need for 3 screens
Just use the Sapphire eyefinity adapter( about 120 euro, i got mine off pixmania.ie, you can get cheaper active DP adapters but youll be taking a chance, some work some dont and loads have flickering screen issues ) and you dont need a Displayport screen, however:
1. If you want bevel management for games you NEED to have 3 of the exact same screens otherwise you have to faff around forcing it to think theyre all the same
2. For gaming a 5850 is not good enough to max games out, im running 3840x1024 resolution max overclocked at 980/1100 and overvolted( beats a stock 5870 by a good 5% ), not being able to max games out is due to both vram limitation and lack of grunt for the res, Bad Company 2 needs some settings on medium, GTA IV nearly runs max, Mafia 2 demo runs on max with physx on medium( ive an 8800GT for that ), SF IV doesnt support eyefinity properly, DMC4 runs fantastically well as does Dirt 2, Grid, Dragon Age, Burnout Paradise and Just Cause 2.

If you dont care about DX11 or maxing out games, just get 2xNvidia 260's, prob about 100euro each, wont need an eyefinity adapter, but i guarantee you if you do that you'll be pissed off and want better gfx, i.e. im looking at getting another 5850 to drive my res( and hopefully go 3x24" screens sometime next year )

Also waste of time waiting for Southern Islands( first 6000 cards due november according to todays Fud article ), its the same architecture with slight improvements but on a 28nm process so performance isint going to be that great compared to existing ATI cards, Northern Islands should change that though

One other thing, if youre ok using DX9, you can just use any 2 nvidia cards in windows XP and use extended display. Or if using Windows Vista or Windows 7 you can use SoftTH to run a tripple display( needs 1 good video card and another crappy gfx card just to display one of the 3 screens ). Its a pain to configure, but works, heres my cheapo 3 screen setup using my old Nvidia 260 and Grid - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlp0-pbijjM

Solitaire

lmimmfn wrote: »

Also waste of time waiting for Southern Islands( first 6000 cards due november according to todays Fud article ), its the same architecture with slight improvements but on a 28nm process so performance isint going to be that great compared to existing ATI cards, Northern Islands should change that though

Link plz, that doesn't match with common sense nor what everyone else is saying! No-one has a new process node ready yet, hell ATi just switched theirs from 32nm to 28nm so if you're right there'll be big delays on HD6000 anyway! Much more likely that Southern is going to be the new GPU on the existing 40nm node because ATi really want to redress the tessellation issues in DX11

lmimmfn

Solitaire wrote: »

Link plz, that doesn't match with common sense nor what everyone else is saying! No-one has a new process node ready yet, hell ATi just switched theirs from 32nm to 28nm so if you're right there'll be big delays on HD6000 anyway! Much more likely that Southern is going to be the new GPU on the existing 40nm node because ATi really want to redress the tessellation issues in DX11

Sorry N.I. is purported to be the 28nm process( the rumours are all conflicting, read an article yesterday saying S.I. was to be 28nm ), but rereading id be sure youre right. If they stick with 40 S.I. will be rubbish, if they go 32nm, it could be a nice improvement.

Either way, Northern Islands is the one to wait for but its not due for sometime next year.

Todays Fud article is - http://www.fudzilla.com/graphics/graphics/graphics/southern-islands-reportedly-coming-in-november
Google ati southern islands for lots of conflicting info

Monotype

I had a look around and displayport monitors are still thin. It might be worth considering just getting 2 GTX 460s. That should work out on average to be a bit better than a 5870. A little more expensive than the 5870 but you can pick your monitors easily and cheaper.
That motherboard can be patched to take SLI, but the 460 isn't supported yet so don't run straight into it.

Overheal

Mini DisplayPort adapters do not exist for the older component video, S-Video, or composite video connectors. Connectivity can be achieved by converting the Mini DisplayPort digital signal first to VGA, DVI, or HDMI, then to the appropriate signal type.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_DisplayPort

Icyseanfitz

Monotype wrote: »

I had a look around and displayport monitors are still thin. It might be worth considering just getting 2 GTX 460s. That should work out on average to be a bit better than a 5870. A little more expensive than the 5870 but you can pick your monitors easily and cheaper.
That motherboard can be patched to take SLI, but the 460 isn't supported yet so don't run straight into it.

Damn it completely forgot about the mobo not supporting sli, was going to just go with the 2 x gtx 460's to keep me going for two years (would they be able to handle the 3 screens properly under gaming?). Could someone link me a good sli board for amd processors please , also i heard on another forum that you have to buy a nvidia 3d vision kit in order to get multiple screens working in games this is false right?
and to the above poster that said i should go with intel well my reasoning behind not going with them is that they change their sockets far two quickly and they also turn out to be more expensive with mobo's and RAM i mean with AMD there is a fair chance il be able to use some of their new bulldozer processors next year on an AM3 socket, also a six core isnt really going to bottleneck any GPU on the market il maybe lose 1-3 fps in high cpu intensive games

Icyseanfitz

will this support sli/crossfire? i see that it has 2 x PCI-Express 2.0 x16 slots but doesnt mention whether it can sli/crossfire or not

Overheal

Why not just suck it in and get the 5970 then? ATI's Eyefinity will support up to 6 monitors per card.

Icyseanfitz

but will i need to get a monitor with a display port in order to use multiscreen with a 5970?

Monotype

No that's an a crossfire board. I think the third digit in Asus' name tells if it's nvidia or ATI (i.e., whether it's an A or N).

M4N98TD EVO - It's not on pixmania.

Overheal

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

but will i need to get a monitor with a display port in order to use multiscreen with a 5970?

No. you can use displayport adapters.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=displayport+to+dvi&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=9923238192836032208&ei=uWtlTJf2JYKBlAeF35WTDg&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDQQ8wIwAA#

and actually on the cards its MiniDisplayPort so http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=minidisplayport+to+dvi&cid=4801236161875149936&ei=GGxlTJ2HNYLWwAWF7dilBQ&sa=title&ved=0CIEBEPMCMAk4AA#p

Monotype

Be careful. Most of those adapters won't work. You need the active/powered one like the sapphire one mentioned by lmimmfn. These are about €100.

Also most cards don't have the mini display port. They have one of each HDMI, displayport and DVI (if I recall correctly), but check out whatever one you choose before you by to be sure.

Solitaire

Those ports are DisplayPort, not multiport! You can't receive a DVI signal through them, so you need an active converter, not a passive adaptor! That's an extra €100!

ninja'd by Mono

Overheal

Solitaire wrote: »

Those ports are DisplayPort, not multiport! You can't receive a DVI signal through them, so you need an active converter, not a passive adaptor! That's an extra €100!

ninja'd by Mono

Yet it says directly in the description of the adapter:

This DisplayPort to DVI (M-M) Video Converter Cable lets you connect a DVI capable display to a DisplayPort video card/source. The cable provides a connection distance of 6ft and features a male DVI connector and a male DisplayPort connector. The DisplayPort/DVI video converter cable supports high bandwidth video transmissions, easily delivering monitor resolutions up to 1920x1200 or HDTV resolutions up to 1080p - allowing you to take full advantage of your DVI capable display, while using a cutting edge DisplayPort video source.

Also most cards don't have the mini display port

The standard HD 5970 Has 2 DVI outs, a Mini-Displayport, and supports Eyefinity Technology, up to 3 displays; With some eyefinity-edition cards supporting 6, and even 12.

Icyseanfitz

eh so confusing i think it would just be simpler to go with two gtx 460's compared to a 5970 where id need to be buying cables and converters that cost a bomb wouldnt it be much easier to put three dvi connectors onto the card and all you have to do is simply plug them in :eek:

Overheal

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

eh so confusing i think it would just be simpler to go with two gtx 460's compared to a 5970 where id need to be buying cables and converters that cost a bomb wouldnt it be much easier to put three dvi connectors onto the card and all you have to do is simply plug them in :eek:

Because manufacturers are begining to phase into Displayport.

And seriously? A $600 card is nothing to you, but having to drop $20 on a Displayport to DVI adapter is a bomb to you?

This is the same discussion we had 2 years ago when people had to use 2 DVI displays, but only had a VGA and a DVI on the card. The solution was a cheap VGA to DVI dongle. Not really that complicated. This is the same deal, with newer tech. Im not sure why you find this confusing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort

DisplayPort is designed to replace digital (DVI) and analog component video (VGA) connectors in the computer monitors and video cards, as well as replace internal digital LVDS links in computer monitor panels and TV panels. [1]

DisplayPort is capable of directly emitting single-link HDMI and DVI signals. Its effectively a Port that can automatically switch between a DVI signal and an HDMI signal, without requiring a DVI and an HDMI port on the card. Mini-Displayports as such are an excellent successor to both: I suspect all the next gen cards will pretty exclusively use displayport, with included adapters in the box.

Icyseanfitz

so if i connected a 5970 to one of my monitors with say this i would be able to use eyefinity? or do i have to buy one of the more expensive ones that the rest of the lads are on about?

Overheal

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

so if i connected a 5970 to one of my monitors with say this i would be able to use eyefinity? or do i have to buy one of the more expensive ones that the rest of the lads are on about?

Yes that would work. Depending on which 5970 you buy (XFX, Sapphire bla bla) they should all say on the store page what they have in the box: I saw a Diamond HD 5970 that came with a Mini-Displayport to Displayport adapter, for instance. Some might already have that mini-Dsiplayport to DVI in the box: check

Icyseanfitz

well this is the one i was looking at and i think it comes with a mini displayport to displayport adapter but i could just plug that apple one into the mini port and connect a dvi cable to the other end of it correct? also if i buy the 5970 would i be able to just use 2 screens for a while as i would have to try and save up for the third screen (im not rich )

Monotype

Overheal wrote: »

Yet it says directly in the description of the adapter:

This DisplayPort to DVI (M-M) Video Converter Cable lets you connect a DVI capable display to a DisplayPort video card/source. The cable provides a connection distance of 6ft and features a male DVI connector and a male DisplayPort connector. The DisplayPort/DVI video converter cable supports high bandwidth video transmissions, easily delivering monitor resolutions up to 1920x1200 or HDTV resolutions up to 1080p - allowing you to take full advantage of your DVI capable display, while using a cutting edge DisplayPort video source.

I think it's that you're ok if you're using it on just one monitor and you total resolution is less than 1920x1200. But most eyefinity users will be going for 5760x1080 total resolution. I haven't had any personal experience with it but there's loads of reports around about it.

The standard HD 5970 Has 2 DVI outs, a Mini-Displayport, and supports Eyefinity Technology, up to 3 displays; With some eyefinity-edition cards supporting 6, and even 12.

Yeah, I know there's the ones with 6, but I didn't know there was a 12 one. :eek:
I was thinking more of the 5870s which nearly all have 2 DVI, 1 display port, and 1 HDMI. But yeah, there's a lot more editions around now. But stop tempting us with your newegg prices. :mad:

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

also if i buy the 5970 would i be able to just use 2 screens for a while as i would have to try and save up for the third screen (im not rich )

Yes.

Overheal

yeah it'll gladly run on 2 screens. Windows does that natively. You only need the ATI Driver to kick in Eyefinity when you are ready to run 3+ displays.

Yes if you get apple's mini-displayport to DVI that will work.

I think it's that you're ok if you're using it on just one monitor and you total resolution is less than 1920x1200.

Valid concern. But eyefinity works by using Individual chipsets (think of a memory controller on a typical processor die) for each display adapter supported: so on the 5970 there's (at least) 3 Individual Display adapters on the card that can each output its own resolution and refresh rate, seperate of the other 2. Actually I think the entire 5-series supports Eyefinity 3 at the minimum. The 5970 is actually 2 GPUs in 1 so it should have 6, but I believe on the standards only 3 of them are wired up to outputs. And if theres a 12, hell maybe theres 6 on each die. Madness.

So with 3 in conjuction you could have a maximum workspace of 5760x3240 (1920x1080x3)

Monotype

Connectivity Requirements: ATI Eyefinity technology is supported by graphics cards in the ATI Radeon™ HD 5400 series and higher. These cards can support up to six monitors (depending on the model), subject to the following restrictions:
• A maximum of 2 legacy monitors (VGA, DVI or HDMI) can be enabled simultaneously, provided that each monitor is connected either directly or via a “passive” DisplayPort™ adapter/dongle. “Passive” adapters/dongles will NOT support more than 2 legacy monitors.
• To enable support for more than 2 monitors, “active” DisplayPort™ adapters/dongles are required (or monitors with direct DisplayPort™ connectivity must be used).
• Approved “active” adapters have no general connectivity restrictions with ATI Eyefinity technology.

http://support.amd.com/us/eyefinity/Pages/eyefinity-dongles.aspx

---

Overheal wrote: »

Valid concern. But eyefinity works by using Individual chipsets for each display adapter supported: so on the 5970 there's (at least) 3 Individual Display adapters on the card that can each output its own resolution and refresh rate, seperate of the other 2. Actually I think the entire 5-series supports Eyefinity 3 at the minimum.

So with 3 in conjuction you could have a maximum workspace of 5760x3240 (1920x1080x3)

OK, I'll try to dig us some reviews on this so. I hadn't really considered the 5970.

Overheal

Does that mean a single passive Displayport plug can Y-cable to 2 DVI monitors?

Anywho, Powered Displayport adapters just draw juice from an attached USB cable.

Overheal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZAkCoaq384

Okay.... Just make sure your 3rd Monitor, when you buy it, has a Native Displayport Input on it. But That shouldn't be too difficult to find, when/if you're ready.

On the 5970:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA0kWQeoKas

Gravity appears to be a concern-able factor...

Monotype

I had a good read into it. You can have two monitors that are DVI. 3 and above have to have displayport with all the remaining monitors (or active adapters). So if you had an eyefinity 6 card, you'd still need at least 4 DP monitors or active adapters.

Solitaire

I'm amazed that premium cases still don't include any adjustable support brackets to grab the far corner of an oversized PCIe card...

Monotype

IMO, just get something like
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dell-P2310H-inch-Professional-Widescreen/dp/B0031U1AGO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1281725293&sr=8-1
(there's one sold by amazon £215.00 @ UK VAT)
for your display port monitor and two of these
http://accessories.euro.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=ie&l=en&s=dhs&cs=iedhs1&sku=288706

I haven't looked at reviews for these but they look similar and it's better than paying for 3 displayport monitors.

Icyseanfitz

damn it anyway i cant afford all that (my limit is just around €2000:() i think im just going to go with dual gtx 460's seems much more straight forward as i cant find any monitors that are reasonable that have a displayport on pixmania.ie but then i have to try and find a mobo that will support amd and sli sigh

Overheal

well you said you werent going for triple screens right now anyway. You're not thinking 6 months forward: These displayport Monitors are already begining to roll into the market.

AMD + SLI = GLHF

Icyseanfitz

supose you right il just go with one screen right now and get the best gpu setup i can get and then around xmas i can start looking at making it better so the best gpu setups i can get right now are ati - 5970 or Nvidia-gtx 480 or dual gtx 460's (was also looking at dual gtx 480's but that is a bit crazy ) could anyone link me a AMD Am3 mobo that i can buy in ireland that supports sli just in case i go nvidia

Overheal

dont know if these are available in ireland and neither supports sata 6gbps or USB 3

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007625%20600007943%20600008309&IsNodeId=1&name=NVIDIA%20nForce%20900

But again my advice is a thousand times the 5970.