Diary: I'm buying a house. Offer accepted.... now what!? :)

DeVore

Just got the word that the seller has accepted my offer on a 3 bed on the Northside. I offered a little over 270,000 (I'm being coy for paranoias sake!)

So, I havent done this before and being single I dont have anyone to check my head with so I thought I'd keep a diary here and also ask for advice!

So, today I got The Phonecall. Offer accepted, need to move to the next phase. The agent tried to play a bit of poker with me over the price including telling me 2 weeks ago that they were going with someone else. Bad move on a guy who used to play for a living I stuck to my offer and the other buyer mysteriously melted away. Fair enough, thats his job and if it was me selling, I'd want to see him try for the max.

Now he has asked me for contact details, solictor/surveyor details and also a deposit of more then 5K made out to his company (a company thats not unknown in the area and agents for several properties I had seen before this one).

I've got a lawyer, I've got a surveyor and I have the approval from the bank for the mortage.

What I dont have is any idea of what happens next!! Buying a house is something OTHER people do in my world, I'm 40 and this is my first time (I'm a property virgin more or less!)



How long should I expect before I get the keys? Is that deposit usual? Any advice for a first timer?

DeV.

messrs

hey i bought a house last year, paid my deposit 2nd week in august and got my keys Fri 13th November:eek:
i paid my deposit to the estate agent - mine took a while to get sorted as house i was buying belonged to a couple who were splitting up so was bit more complicated but prob would only take 8 weeks max
just keep pressure on ur estate agent and solictor coz they mite not be as keen to get sorted for you now that you have actually bought it!

Piriz

congrats, welcome to the northside!
would it not be wise to get the property surveyed next before any deposit is paid? a contract might be binding even if the outcome of a survey changes your mind, you could lose your deposit or be committed to the sale...(this is possible i would imagine)..
also are you sure you know your future neighbours are decent...lets just say i've recently heard a horror story...tragic i tells ya!
one last thing..are you content with the price of this property? baring in mind that property value in Dublin is falling at an alarming rate..(i apologise for bringing this up if you have done your homework and are aware of the market economics, i hight light it in case you are not).

DeVore

Did you get a survey done before sending in the deposit?
Was there anything legal that said you would get your money back if something went wrong (other then you changing your mind) ?

6-8 weeks is what I am hoping but the EA said he wants to wrap it up fast, in 4-5. The house is unoccupied and I'm not selling anything on my end so hopefully it will be quick enough!


DeV.

messrs

yeah i got mine surveyed before i paid deposit and he came inside house and checked all over, attic ect - just aswell coz the ppl that lived here before me had the attic full of junk!! so it was put into contract that the attic had to be cleared before full balance was paid over - deposit was paid at this stage, but if agreements in contract had not been met then i could have got deposit back
defo reccomend getting it surveyed first and add anything that your not happy with into contract

DeVore

Piriz wrote: »

congrats, welcome to the northside!
would it not be wise to get the property surveyed next before any deposit is paid? a contract might be binding even if the outcome of a survey changes your mind, you could lose your deposit or be committed to the sale...(this is possible i would imagine)..
also are you sure you know your future neighbours are decent...lets just say i've recently heard a horror story...tragic i tells ya!
one last thing..are you content with the price of this property? baring in mind that property value in Dublin is falling at an alarming rate..(i apologise for bringing this up if you have done your homework and are aware of the market economics, i hight light it in case you are not).

Fair questions!

I will be following my lawyers advice on everything relating to money, so if he says its usual to get a survey done before the deposit then thats what I will be doing! Personally, I think thats the best coarse of action.

I dont know the neighbours but its a semi-detached so I guess I only have to know one side Its a settled area.

As for the price, yes, I'm content. I know prices might well fall further and I am ready for that but this also seems like a really good property for the price and has potential (the attic can be converted for example and the neighbours all have extensions out the back so I'm thinking of that too).

I wouldnt have paid more then I am, but I do feel its a decent price for the house (when I have something legal in my hands, I'll link it up!). The way I look at it is, I'm happy to convert the work that will be required to pay for this, for this structure. After that, the rest of the world can do as it sees fit and if someone else gets a similar house for half the price next year, well... bully for them.

Thanks for the feedback though, its all good!


DeV.

Head The Wall

Congrats first off, could you renage on the offer as the other buyer has now vanished. Play their game and offer a few k less. (I don't know is this legally possible at this stage) Bear in mind they didn't have a problem trying to get more sheckels out of you.

Treehouse72

OP, what was the original asking price? It's harder to make sense of the €270k agreed price without knowing.

Head The Wall wrote: »

Congrats first off, could you renage on the offer

Yes. I believe the deposit is just a refundable booking deposit, not an actual deposit on the property.

DeVore

The original asking price was 285,000 so its not a great deal less then they asked for, but from having looked at the market a lot lately and seen whats out there and compared it to this house, I am convinced that if it is structurally sound, its a good buy. I'm sure I could probably push and get it for 260k maybe but at the risk of leaving it on the market and ending up in a real bidding war, plus there are personal reasons to favouring a quick deal.

I got my folks to come look at it too and they concur. The valuation isnt something I am too worried about as I plan to live there and the mortage is less then my current rent and I could also get a tenant if needs be. I'm not buying for an investment per se.

I'm a bit more excited and nervous now, its begun to settle in that I've gone and done this hahaha...

DeV.

EKRIUQ

Its pretty much out of your hands now and it's up to the solicitors to get the finger out. The deposit you paid to the agent is fully refundable until you get the call from your solicitor to come into the office to sign the contracts thats where you'll have to pay the balance of the deposit usually 10 %. Your solicitor will do the conveyancing of the contracts which is pretty much your solicitor asking the vendors solicitors about 40 standard questions regarding the house and if it's not an acceptable answer its investigated more.

You should get the survey done now it will cost about €350-500 for a good detailed survey but worth it, a good one finds fault in everything so don't be disappointed if there's a load of minor flaws.

Check the BER rating, it's now compulsory to have one when selling the property, this will slow down the sale if one's not done already! Contracts aren't to be issued until this is done

Good title will also have to be established on the property before it can be sold which shouldn't be any problem but if there is a problem it could take months to sort out.

No sale is final until the owners of the property sign the contracts and they can pull out at any time up until then.

And finally get house insurance for the day you move in you can't insureit before then.

That's about it so sit back and wait, I've seen house sales take 3 weeks to 12 months.

DeVore

Thanks! Just to point out, I havent paid a dime yet and I wont until my lawyer says its cool to do so.

Some good things to think about there too, thanks EKRIUQ.

DeV.

astrofool

Deposit is fully refundable for any reason, timeline with regard survey will probably be up to you, do you know and trust someone to do the survey for you? On our first sale agreed, our surveyor found that the house next door had a leaking water pipe, causing subsidence, that may have effected our house, so we pulled out, had the deposit back within the day. You will get a receipt for this.

When you go to sign contracts you'll need to have 10% of the purchase price available to transfer to their solicitor (via your solicitor), this is only refundable if the contract is broken by their side (and even then can drag on and on). Your solicitor should bring you through the deeds, and exact mortgage contract set out by the bank, as well as what your stamp duty requirements are (if any). Getting the deed transferred costs money, I think it was €75 on the old system (ink and paper) and near €1000 on the new system (computerised, go fig). You should also find out about any outstanding bills, and if any loans are secured on the property, and if there's management fees, or if it's been taken in hand by the council.

You'll want to measure for appliances, is it 50 or 60cm, or integrated, what is staying in the house, what isn't (the shed is usually listed on the contract).

Mortgage itself won't be released until the day of the purchase, and interest will build up from that day onwards, sometimes this can put you on the other side of more preferential rates if the hand over date drags on (esp. now as variable rates are heading up).

Bring a hoover and cleaning equipment on the first day, everything will need cleaned

Treehouse72

DeVore wrote: »

The original asking price was 285,000 so its not a great deal less then they asked for, but from having looked at the market a lot lately and seen whats out there and compared it to this house, I am convinced that if it is structurally sound, its a good buy. I'm sure I could probably push and get it for 260k maybe but at the risk of leaving it on the market and ending up in a real bidding war, plus there are personal reasons to favouring a quick deal.

I got my folks to come look at it too and they concur. The valuation isnt something I am too worried about as I plan to live there and the mortage is less then my current rent and I could also get a tenant if needs be. I'm not buying for an investment per se.

It seems you've really thought about it, so best of luck. However, since you came on here looking for opinions, I'm gonna be a pain and give mine. Hope it doesn't piss on your chips, so to speak!

1. Whether you are buying as a residence or an investment shouldn't matter wrt getting the best price. Every penny you shave off the asking price now is time off your working life and is money that could considerably improve your quality of life overall. This is not a minor matter so I am disturbed that you think you could get the property cheaper but aren't even trying to do so. This is imprudent in the extreme. The €10k you aren't chasing down will just go onto your mortgage and you could spend several years of your working life just paying off this portion alone (allowing for interest + capital repayments)! Just think about that for a moment - how hard is 1 year of work? And for what? Because you didn't go after that €10k that was on offer? This is a big, big deal DV and I don't think you grasp that at all. And that is before we even mention any more €10k's you could get off the price. Speaking in which...

2. Paying c.5% below asking in this day and age puts you in a tiny minority of people who are paying anywhere near full asking. Most people are negotiating significantly higher discounts than this. Certainly 10%+, and very often 20%. Only very, very special houses are clearing at asking, so I certainly hope your place is one of these exceptional properties to be paying top whack. Anything less, and you are not getting a good deal.

3. When I hear you talk about a "bidding war", I fear you are somewhat behind the times. How can bubble-style demand - the kind that produces a bidding war - exist after the bubble has burst? The bubble is gone, ended, and it's a whole new ballgame now. People can't get mortgages, are losing their jobs or are leaving the country, they face a tough December budget and possibly a new range of taxes, sentiment is overwhelmingly negative...and yet they'll be out there engaged in bubble-style bidding wars and snapping houses the moment they come on the market? You don't seem to have recognised new realities and thus your fears are likely unfounded.

4. I am as certain as it is possible to be that this property will be no less than 10% cheaper this time next year. So a drop in the order of €20,000 +/- on your place. That is not notional or abstract money. That is actual money that would be in your pocket in 52 weeks time. There could well be another 10% the year after that again. I cannot prove this will happen, but if you look at just about every single solitary indicator - rising unemployment, tightening credit, dropping wages, lower demand for housing because of emigration, rising interest rates, rising taxes, negative sentiment, non-viable rental yields - it is impossible to conceive that prices won't keep falling. If we add that €20k to the €10k you say you could get off now, suddenly the numbers start looking substantial.


Ugh, I feel bad saying this since I cannot be 100% sure about it, and because you seem so excited. But every bone in my body is telling me your decisions now are going to cost you north of €50k. Maybe far north. One final thing, on this:

I'm a bit more excited and nervous now, its begun to settle in that I've gone and done this hahaha...

I know you are just having fun here, but I sense a wee bit of hysteria. I think you might have fallen in love with either this specific house or the idea of buying in general and are not thinking rationally. I suffer from this emotional attachment problem when looking at cars I might like to buy...it is extraordinarily powerful and you don't realise it's got you while it's got you. You need to take a deep breath, step back and think clearly. I fear you are too emotionally attached to the whole process that you might not be thinking straight.

EKRIUQ

I'd say your a barrel of laughs at a party Treehouse72

irlrobins

A repost of mine from last year:

1) You pay a booking deposit (this is refundable if you decide to pull out of sale)
2) Find a solicitor and ask what their fees are. Ask friends and family to recommend someone. Or contact the law society who can provide a list of firms in your area.
3) You provide EA with your solicitor's details, they will pass this to the vendor's solicitor.
4) Vendor's solicitor will send contracts to your solicitor
5) You contact your bank and let them know you've gone sale agreed. They will also ask for your solicitor's details so they can send formal loan offer.
6) The bank may also request a valuation and/or a survey on the property, so you need to hire a valuer/surveyor (~€150/€500). They will value the property and send report to bank and to you.
7) Once contracts and formal loan offer is received by your solicitor he will contact you to arrange for you to come in and sign.
8) At this stage you will have to provide 10% of the selling price as a deposit (minus the initial payment in step 1). This is non refundable.
9) You sign contracts (assuming no issues with building, etc), they are returned to the vendor's solicitor
10) You can then snag the building and provide the vendor with the list
11) Once the legal mumbo jumbo is complete, your solicitor will let you know when the deal is ready to be closed. He will handle contacting the bank to arrange drawdown. You might have to provide additional funds as well depending on how much you are borrowing. You will have to get life assurance in place as well. IT's best to do this sooner rather than later as you might have to take a medical. So don't leave it until the last week.
12) get keys!

DeVore

Treehouse, I know where you are coming from. I maybe havent explained myself well. I saw this house 2 weeks ago before going on holidays so I took that time to have a long hard think about what I was doing financially. This purchase will be a mix of cash and borrowings btw.

I find it weird that people talk about 10% off the "asking price", from my experience of looking in the north of the city decent 3 beds with an asking price of less than 300k are hard to find, I have spent hours scouring Daft at night (like many I guess) and I have looked at a few (there arent many to look at to be honest!). The reason I am not too concerned about the money is because I honestly dont think the guy would go any lower (after all, he waited 2 weeks before getting back to me so he wasnt exactly taking the hand off me for the offer and I had to poke him!) and because I think his asking price is actually quite reasonable (unlike many out there who are keeping them high because the buyers are judging a deal by the % below the asking price they get, rather then by absolute amounts).

So, my point on "asking prices" is this, is a house asking 350,000 and selling for 300k a better deal then a house asking 280,000 and selling for 270k? Seems like a bad way to think of it imho.

Surely the question should be: is 270k a good price for a decent 3 bed on the northside? I think it is, from my research.

Your point on the cash saved would be true for most people but I am selling shares to buy this, shares which are at risk too. I could cash them out first and put the money in the bank but if you are watching closely, Eurobanks are not exactly the best place for cash at the moment, they are guaranteed up to sept which is bad timing for me too!!
So there is risk (which has a value) involved too. There is risk that someone else will offer him a better deal and then there is my personal circumstances of renting for 800 a month which is dead money for the year you suggest I wait. All of this on the "bet" that house prices will fall (if you put a gun to my head and made me bet, I would bet they will too, but not by *enough* to justify the risks outlined above).


The price however, is not my question. I wasnt really coming here to ask if people think I should buy it (I have already had a thread on "Should I buy a house now?":)). I'm effectively writing a diary about the process of buying a house and my, uninitiated view of what goes on which might be interesting and useful to other people like me.

Finally, my comment about realising what I have done is because I deal with reasonable sized deals a lot of times in business. I do the financial equations and consider the risks etc and consult with companies about big IT projects etc. I'm very comfortable with the idea of spending a million quid on something. Its just not usually MY money. So today was just another day for me and a deal done that I would consider sound. I still think its sound and the fact that its my money doesnt change that (why would it!) but its still a bit weird not to even be excited about it. (which I admit, I am now... a bit )
So it wasnt that I suddenly regretted it or came down to earth (I haven't signed anything yet remember and there is "many a slip" etc) it was more a realisation "woah, that was quick".... as I woke up today presuming my offer was just too low for him to accept.

Anyway, next up: Lawyers, and Titles and Surveyors, Oh My!

DeV.

the_syco

DeVore wrote: »

Thanks! Just to point out, I havent paid a dime yet and I wont until my lawyer says its cool to do so.

Reason why you don't sign the contracts before getting an engineer in: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055990754

Heck, you may be able to knock some off depending on what the engineer says, but ensure that if there's a big ass f**k-up in the house, your heart doesn't tell your head "ah, it's grand"; get someone to have a 2nd look at the engineers report to ensure you're not missing anything.

Two things I would look at is

1) If there's no internal insulation in the house, look into it, and look for mould in the house.

2) Put on some tunes, and see how much noise comes though from nextdoor.

Finally, congrats.

seamus

DeV, don't sweat the deposit too much.

It's a deposit and doesn't form any part of the buying agreement. As you have not signed any contract, you are entitled to withdraw from the sale and get your deposit back at any stage. This is different to purchasing any other asset where a contract is formed once an offer has been made and accepted. In land sales, a contract must be in writing and signed before it's legally binding.

It's a standard holding deposit which basically shows that you're serious. Consequently it also doesn't stop the seller from accepting a later offer, known as "Gazumping". This used to be common in the tiger era, but it's *very* unlikely to happen to you.

What happens now is that you notify your solicitor and your bank. The bank will send out a surveyor, who will tell the bank whether or not you're buying a complete lemon. You can get your own surveyor in if you like. Many people recommend this, however be aware that most surveyors are only looking at major items - structural integrity and so forth. A surveyor will not tell that kitchen needs to be refitted or that the bathrooms are going to need to be repainted. Any surveyor is simply looking for things which will affect the material value of the property.
So from that point of view, the bank's surveyor should be sufficient. You can hire your own for peace of mind though.

Your solicitor in the meantime will be talking to the seller's solicitor. He will do all forms of legally-fangled things in the background to make sure that the property has a proper deed, doesn't belong to someone other than the sellers, etc etc. The contracts of sale will go back and forth between the two solicitors as queries are raised and resolved.

Once your solicitor is reasonably happy that the contracts are solid, he will call you in and go through them with you, to make sure that you're aware of anything which will affect you - management company fees, preservation orders, whatever - and to check that there's nothing missing from the contracts. In our case, the EA told us that the washing machine and dishwasher were part of the sale. They weren't on the contracts because the EA didn't mention this to the sellers. So we had to get those items specifically added to the contracts.

Something to watch out for in that regard is fixtures and fittings. Some people, believe it or not, will remove everything from the house which isn't part of the building - remove curtain rails, towel rails, shelving from the walls, take all the light bulbs, pull up the carpets, etc. I'm not kidding, some people are that bloody crazy.

When everyone is happy with the contracts, the seller signs it, then your solicitor receives it, you sign it and provide a further deposit - usually 10% of the purchase price of the property.

At this stage, you're locked in, no way out, and so are the sellers. So it's crucial that you are 100% happy with the property before this stage and that you have made clear *everything* that you want out of the sale. Once the contracts are signed, your chips are down, you can't make any more demands.

The contracts will have a date on which the full sale is to take place. It also usually states penalties if the contract is not fulfilled by either party on that date. You're in the better position, since you don't have another property to sell. On that date, your solicitor and the seller's solicitor will be furiously communicating and sending stuff back and forth. Your solicitor will contact your bank to draw down your mortgage, send all of the documentation over to the seller's solicitor, who uses that cheque to clear the seller's mortgage and fulfill the contract. Your solicitor should then receives the keys and you collect them. Congrats, the house is yours. This last day is a bit of a pain because it relies on both solicitors and everyone communicating efficiently. Otherwise you may get stuck and not get your keys till the next day. So if you can, arrange to make your purchase on a Monday.

The_Conductor

DeV- well done on taking the leap- do keep us appraised of all the happenings up to when you're in the front door.

I'd be inclined to spend the extra money on getting a private survey done- the cursory survey the bank do isn't worth much. Its unlikely to uncover anything major- but you never know. I'd also ask about a BER (energy rating certificate) and look at the recommendations on it. Depending on when the property was built- it might perhaps be advisable to get some additional insulation installed.

Outside of that- if you're happy with everything- I'd start looking into service providors- if you're anything like us here- decent broadband is a requisite, and if you can get some CAT cabling done prior to moving in, you'll get most benefit from it (most of your neighbours probably have wireless routers- so wired connections would have much better speeds).

Note: you pay a refundable booking deposit on the property- you do not pay any fees to the estate agent- the seller pays all fees.

S.

Grawns

Not being nosey but how much are you borrowing towards the purchase? The bank may very well ask for another survey\valuation and if the price has dropped they may refuse to honour the original mortgage approval.

For example - if you borrow €216,000 and sell shares and pay GGT to realize the other €54,000 ( 20% deposit) and the valuation/survey comes back at €250,000. They might only lend you €196,000.

That's been happening a lot lately but the bigger the deposit the less chance it will happen.

Best of luck, this is a very stressful time but it's worse for the seller

JoeyJJ

Quick question on the 10% what happened back in the Celtic tiger days when lots got 100% mortgagues, this 10% seems to be needed before the mortgague is drawn down on, did they need a bridging loan? and what about 92% people now do they need to come up with a little more initially?

Thanks and sorry for the slight hijack Dev, and congratulations and I agreee with your discount arguement, if the owner is realistic the discount will be lower. I hope to be in your position in 6-8 months.

seamus

JoeyJJ wrote: »

Quick question on the 10% what happened back in the Celtic tiger days when lots got 100% mortgagues, this 10% seems to be needed before the mortgague is drawn down on, did they need a bridging loan? and what about 92% people now do they need to come up with a little more initially?

My understanding is that the bank provided this 10% or a guarantee on the contract in lieu of the 10%.

Dunno about the 92% people. In reality you don't *need* the 10%, it's just a common & easy figure. If you only have 8% then I imagine most sellers will accept that.

The_Conductor

Most mortgage providors are now insisting on 15% being saved by the prospective buyer (even 92% mortgages are now a rarety). Presumably you would use some of this towards the deposit?

JoeyJJ

smccarrick wrote: »

Most mortgage providors are now insisting on 15% being saved by the prospective buyer (even 92% mortgages are now a rarety). Presumably you would use some of this towards the deposit?

When did the move to 15% occur, I see the main 2 are still advertising 92%? I got verbal acceptance a couple of months ago but would not draw down near what the top figure was, I know since then there was a interest change but also my salary increased so should be in more or less the same boat unless they want to keep their ads correct by accepting 100 a day but in reality having a small portion drawing down on the loans.

Treehouse72

EKRIUQ wrote: »

I'd say your a barrel of laughs at a party Treehouse72

Don't get invited to any mate.

Moonbeam

If it is an old house get a structural survey done as well as the survey,it is more expensive but so worth it.
We learned this when buying last year and it paid off.

DeVore

Dont mind them treehouse, a dissenting voice is good too!

The bank wont be a problem. I'm slightly embarrassed because of the economic climate we are in but during the silly years I refused to buy into the mass delusion and saved like a squirrel. I also worked my ass off and built up 4 different companies (Boards being one of them but in this case I'm selling out of my others, primaraily poker related), so I will only be asking the bank for about half the cash or less. I dont think I would get the loan as a single, jobless entrepreneur otherwise . So that side of things doesnt really enter the picture, my value-to-loan is pretty much off the scale.


--- Lawyers and titles and surveyors, oh my!---
Today I retained the services of a solicitor and a surveyor. The solicitor is one who has worked with the family before and is a golf buddy of my dads, so I know he will take good care of me. The surveyor was recommended by BOI as being good but I could chose my own if I liked. I took their suggestion and contacted him. He was very clear and very good and took me through the whole process and what it would cost and what I would get and a vague timetable depending on other parties. He seems like a really nice, experienced professional.
I dont know if I should name them now or when its all done, I havent thought that through but if they do a good job I would like them to earn the plaudits (cos if they dont, I'll name and shame hahha).

So, I'm still feeling like all of this will fall through somehow but I'm setting wheels in motion. This isnt something I have just dived into without thought, thats not my style. I've thought about this for 18 months and ensured my lifestyle wont be affected. All the same, it seems surreal somehow. I think the most expensive thing I owned 2 years ago was my laptop. I dont drive and I dont have a wife and kids etc so this is still a big enough step for me. I've thought everything through and it makes logical sense and its working out as I planned but its still a weird feeling.

The surveyor quoted 315+Vat for a comprehensive survey and said he would throw in the bank report for free.

Havent got a quote from the solicitor yet as he is away until next week.

onwards and upwards!

DeV.

the_syco

smccarrick wrote: »

I'd be inclined to spend the extra money on getting a private survey done- the cursory survey the bank do isn't worth much.

Some people swear by engineers. I don't really know is there a difference: is there?

Victor wrote: »

If you are buying a house and you don't think there is anything particularly wrong with it, you could use either. If you think the house is "tired" (damp, ventilation, etc.) the building surveyor might be best. If you think its in need of remodelling, e.g. the kitchen and bathroom are too small, go for an architect. If you really don't like the look of the crack in the gable wall and the slope on the floor, go for an engineer. Any of them should be able to do the job, but pick one who's strengths match the property's major problems.

Some surveyors will also be able to do the valuation.

Shop around, plenty of people out there these days.

www.scs.ie
www.ipav.ie
www.riai.ie
www.iei.ie

Grawns

DeVore wrote: »

The bank wont be a problem. I'm slightly embarrassed because of the economic climate we are in but during the silly years I refused to buy into the mass delusion and saved like a squirrel. I also worked my ass off and built up 4 different companies (Boards being one of them but in this case I'm selling out of my others, primaraily poker related), so I will only be asking the bank for about half the cash or less. I dont think I would get the loan as a single, jobless entrepreneur otherwise . So that side of things doesnt really enter the picture, my value-to-loan is pretty much off the scale.

It's nice to hear some good news for a change. Hope - and I'm sure it all goes well for you. Where on the NS? Have had my eye on Clontarf/Raheny Saint Annes Park area myself. Someday maybe...

Slydice

So, yah caved eh?. Maybe there was more to it than what you posted earlier.

DeVore wrote: »

there is my personal circumstances of renting for 800 a month which is dead money for the year you suggest I wait.

Even if you spin it like this, what Treehouse says is pretty reasonable in my opinion.

You're pretty much guaranteed to be down 20k next year. So let's look at the figures:
Rent at 800/month = 9,600. So, essentially, you'll have saved yourself 10,400 by staying renting. So that's 800 a month dead money and I guess about 860 a month ... eh.. living money or whatever you'd like to call it

Any chance you're able to share how much you make per year and how much your repayments will be? That would be useful to see how comfortable you might be when you have this house.

Also, the address would also be useful to help figure out if you're in an area whose prices are falling faster or slower than others.

What EKRIUQ said about checking for a BER cert is spot on.
Getting the Survey done is spot on.
Have you checked floodmaps.ie to make sure it's a decent area in that respect?
Have you checked the area out at different times to make sure there isn't any anti-social behaviour you might like to avoid?

Next up from the seller might be a gazump. As you're renting and not tied to selling another house, you're in a good position. Just tell them to f**k off . Also, I think a good reply in the form of saying you want to take some time to have a think seeing as how they decided to try it and that you want to go to the bank to see if you still have approval. Then also ask for 10-20k off the asking price again (hell... if they show you such contempt by gazumping, you might aswell gazunder them)


All that said, if:
- you really like this place
- you got the money
- you don't mind being down the bit of money
- you don't mind staying there for the rest of your life

then go for it, cos it sounds like somewhere that makes up for the other issues and best of luck!



p.s. might be worthwhile asking for advice over on the pin

mkahnisbent

DeVore wrote: »

Finally, my comment about realising what I have done is because I deal with reasonable sized deals a lot of times in business. I do the financial equations and consider the risks etc and consult with companies about big IT projects etc.

Just because you do something doesn't mean you're any good at it.

Honestly it sounds like you don't fully understand that you haven't got the best deal for yourself, but if money isn't an issue then who cares.

Enjoy the house, the next 12 months will be a lot fun (making the house your own).

DeVore

Our Survey Says!

So I got the survey done... He arrived looking like he might need a house himself and my initial reaction was "I hired this guy?!" but he went to work and I began to admire his approach. He was extremely thorough and had a pre ordained check list and a decidedly set way of doing things. he wouldnt talk to me or the R.E.A. until he had done things his way and then he would come back to our questions and points. He took over 90 minutes and seemed to poke in every nook and cranny.

When he was done, he and I walked the house and he pointed out things and I asked questions (like, can I knock this wall through, can I have an extension? can I convert the attic etc...)

My admiration for his work approach soared as he spoke knowledgeably about construction techniques, issues I might face and advice on best ways to do certain things.

He was loath to say anything formally at that point as he said there is a report on its way to me and a letter to the bank but he took me aside and said it was a fine little house and apart from a outside shed which had a roof made from asbestos which would need careful disposal of when I wanted to knock it down, there was nothing wrong with the house. It has a BER cert which I requested from the REA.

So, thats that then, another hurdle over. I have to say I was a bit nervous about the results which I dont understand as if there was anything wrong, I would just have walked away. Perhaps I have settled "emotionally" on buying this house but I do actually think its a genuinely good house for the price and its in a decent enough area at the right point between Malahide (my folks!) and the city. All windows have new double glazing, all floors are new (wood or carpets), kitchen is new, back garden is huge...
maybe I'll be down 20k next year, but I aint buying to sell. Maybe I could get it cheaper but realistically, compared to other houses I've seen.... this is a good price. Perhaps I could push for another 5k off but I did offer that at first and didnt hear back from them for 2 weeks...

Anyway, I'm content and I'm moving forwards. Next stop, solicitors. I have to confess... I have no idea what the solicitor is going to cost me. Thats probably not a good thing... I really must ask him!


So, in summary, surveyors... not as scary as you might think. Very handy too. Apparently now it takes 2-3 weeks to get documents over to my solicitor and about 2-3 weeks to get them signed sealed and delivered. So, 4-6 weeks to go.

DeV.

knuth

I was in the same both with the surveyor, considering him an enemy if he reported anything bad

I started in February and finalized the purchase in August, 6 months in total. Landed a 4 bed in Dublin 7 for €270,000.

I needed a 2k "booking" deposit followed by a 10% deposit when the contracts arrived.

I was granted a 92% mortgage so I got my 2% back once the deal was done from the bank cheque.

Where did you buy by the way?

the_syco

lordlame wrote: »

Where did you buy by the way?

Don't think he'll say until he has written ownership fo the house, but I'm guessing Portmarnock.

Wotzit

OP, I've just bought my first house (on my own) and found it to be equally exciting and terrifying! Sale agreed 25th June and got keys 3rd Aug so a little over 5 weeks and that included getting a full structural survey.

My advice is to be as organised with your documentation as possible, write down your list of questions before you call anybody ie solicitors so as to ensure each of your queries are addressed and be as clear and consise about what you want as possible.

As I was a FTB I got a good deal with a solicitor who charged me €1k plus VAT plus registering and searching fees. They're in Killester so might suit you. All in it came to € 1,800 - I was very pleased with how quickly he handled things, there was no unnecessary delays and he explained everything to me so I knew exactly what and why I was signing a document. The offices also sent me flowers after the deal was done which I thought was a nice touch!

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions:)

Slydice

DeVore wrote: »

maybe I'll be down 20k next year, but I aint buying to sell.

DeVore wrote: »

Anyway, I'm content and I'm moving forwards.

Good. Once ye have a decent idea of what yer getting into (and could end up with) and yer still ok with it, then ... sure what more could you ask for

Best of luck with the house.

latenia

DeVore wrote: »

maybe I'll be down 20k next year, but I aint buying to sell. Maybe I could get it cheaper but realistically, compared to other houses I've seen.... this is a good price. Perhaps I could push for another 5k off but I did offer that at first and didnt hear back from them for 2 weeks...

Without knowing anything about this house other than its size, price and vague location I can guarantee you you're about to flush €100k down the toilet. If you're borrowing this money then we're talking about €200k. That's probably more than your stake in boards.ie and poker winnings put together wasted because you can't hold out for another 24-36 months.

The price might seem like a good deal compared to 3 years ago but those prices were not just high, they were the most overinflated property bubble in the history of the world. I wouldn't consider buying at anything less than a 70% discount off peak prices.

At the very least you should be coming back with a substantially reduced offer following the asbestos discovery.

Damie

latenia wrote: »

Without knowing anything about this house other than its size, price and vague location I can guarantee you you're about to flush €100k down the toilet. If you're borrowing this money then we're talking about €200k. That's probably more than your stake in boards.ie and poker winnings put together wasted because you can't hold out for another 24-36 months.

The price might seem like a good deal compared to 3 years ago but those prices were not just high, they were the most overinflated property bubble in the history of the world. I wouldn't consider buying at anything less than a 70% discount off peak prices.

At the very least you should be coming back with a substantially reduced offer following the asbestos discovery.

Need a bigger hammer lat? :pac:

DeVore

Hurry up and wait!

So we have done the survey, I've applied for life insurance (14 euro a month it will be) and kicked everyone into as high a gear as possible, which seems to equate to..... first gear. His solicitor is supposed to have sent over the papers this week (and hasnt afaik), my solicitor is waiting to do some sort of deeds and titles check which will take 3-4 weeks!

Bizarrely my bank (BOI) has asked me to supply them with a history of my bank account. I have pointed out that they have it already and they want proof of earnings...

So, mostly i'm just waiting now. Started looking in IKEA brouchures but stopped myself.

DeV.

RasTa

Need a lodger?

Theboinkmaster

latenia wrote: »

Without knowing anything about this house other than its size, price and vague location I can guarantee you you're about to flush €100k down the toilet. If you're borrowing this money then we're talking about €200k. That's probably more than your stake in boards.ie and poker winnings put together wasted because you can't hold out for another 24-36 months.

The price might seem like a good deal compared to 3 years ago but those prices were not just high, they were the most overinflated property bubble in the history of the world. I wouldn't consider buying at anything less than a 70% discount off peak prices.

At the very least you should be coming back with a substantially reduced offer following the asbestos discovery.

Fully agree DeVore - that is NOT a good price. You may as well burn €100k as you're basially throwing it away IMO.

You may not believe it but look at similar houses in 2 years time - i guarantee they'll be asking €200k or probably alot less...

snowey07

Im delighted for you and have enjoyed reading this thread. Im also looking and cant wait to be sitting in my own home contemplating what i can do to it

best of luck and keep posting

meglome

When did you get so broody Tom?

As always lots of great advice in here, gonna hold out a bit longer before I'd buy anything but good luck with yours.

And let me be the first to invite myself to the house warming party. I've been around nearly as long as the furniture after all.

stepbar

There's 6 houses in Dublin North which match the criteria you have set (obviously one is yours )

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=545472

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=535284

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=518743

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=513556

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=507998

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=452850

IMO all of them are overpriced. The first one is about the only one I would consider (given location). But not at 285k.... maybe closer to 185k The money you would have to spend to turn that house into a home could be upwards on 40k - 50k. A good kitchen and accessories could set you back 10 - 12k. New bathroom another 2 - 3k. Plumbing? God knows... Decent Furniture? What ever you want it to cost....

Anyhow.... my point is.... if it doesn't meet the rent yield rule walk away.

barrackali

OP, either you have shed loads of money to piss away..or you simply don't care how much money you are going to lose. It may well be 100k...I really can't understand your view that "maybe I'll be down 20k next year"...it will be shed loads more!

Slydice

barrackali wrote: »

OP, either you have shed loads of money to piss away..or you simply don't care how much money you are going to lose. It may well be 100k...I really can't understand your view that "maybe I'll be down 20k next year"...it will be shed loads more!

I will admit that I worry about saying how much prices could drop and that I thought 20k is conservative. So even though I did out the figures to show you'd save money by staying renting... I was thinking that only a 20k price drop was unlikely.

Shoulda said it earlier but again... I worry about saying how much prices could drop.

barrackali

Slydice wrote: »

I will admit that I worry about saying how much prices could drop and that I thought 20k is conservative. So even though I did out the figures to show you'd save money by staying renting... I was thinking that only a 20k price drop was unlikely.

Shoulda said it earlier but again... I worry about saying how much prices could drop.

TBH, any basic analysis of the economy suggests we are in very serious trouble. Rising debt levels, unemployment and net emigration will naturally lead to further serious drops in house prices. Anybody thinking of buying property now seriously needs to press the pause button.

mckildare

This is a very interesting thread (and not the only one!). As a potential first time buyer I've been watching the markets from a distance since the start of the year.

Just seeing how the economy/peoples financial issues have been divebombing since then has told me that no matter what daft (or whoever else) say about the market hitting the bottom, I think prices will have to drop a lot more and for a good while still. Especially the 2nd hand market I think.

It's nice to know that there are more potential buyers holding out as well and I hope that they keep holding out until prices reach reasonable values again

noclue1

Posted this on another thread but bears repeating

What would make you think buying a house now would be a good investment. Look at the situation the country/world economy is in.

Property prices are still falling!!!!
Double dip recession in the global economy looking more likely each day
Unemployment @ nearly 14% and rising
Not to mention all those kept off the live register doing Mickey mouse FAS courses bringing unemployment to c.500,000
Falling public/private sector wages
Mass emigration in the 20-35 age category (these are the FTBs folks)
C.300,000 empty property nationwide
Previous migrant workers returning home, these previously made up a significant proportion of tenants available to support rental prices
New capital requirements for banks meaning less credit availability
Rising interest rates on new and existing mortgages
Numbers in mortgage arrears growing alarmingly each month
Property taxes in the short to medium term
Water charges on the way also
Rent supplement has effectively put a floor in rents the exchequer cannot continue to pay at this level a reduction in the RS will lead to further rent falls and consequently house prices
Inevitable increases in other taxes to pay for our ballooning deficit(reducing net income)
1 In 4 or 25% chance of Ireland defaulting on it's debt(as priced by the markets) along with a possible exit from the eurozone into a new eurotrash zone made up of us and the other pigs

mckildare

noclue1 wrote: »

Posted this on another thread but bears repeating

What would make you think buying a house now would be a good investment. Look at the situation the country/world economy is in.

Property prices are still falling!!!!
Double dip recession in the global economy looking more likely each day
Unemployment @ nearly 14% and rising
Not to mention all those kept off the live register doing Mickey mouse FAS courses bringing unemployment to c.500,000
Falling public/private sector wages
Mass emigration in the 20-35 age category (these are the FTBs folks)
C.300,000 empty property nationwide
Previous migrant workers returning home, these previously made up a significant proportion of tenants available to support rental prices
New capital requirements for banks meaning less credit availability
Rising interest rates on new and existing mortgages
Numbers in mortgage arrears growing alarmingly each month
Property taxes in the short to medium term
Water charges on the way also
Rent supplement has effectively put a floor in rents the exchequer cannot continue to pay at this level a reduction in the RS will lead to further rent falls and consequently house prices
Inevitable increases in other taxes to pay for our ballooning deficit(reducing net income)
1 In 4 or 25% chance of Ireland defaulting on it's debt(as priced by the markets) along with a possible exit from the eurozone into a new eurotrash zone made up of us and the other pigs

Saw that just now in the other thread, bit doom and gloomy but it is the harsh reality. I wonder is there an figures on the emigration so far...?

quozl

Irish ten year bonds at new record highs (again)! Go us! And this is with the ECB buying un-disclosed quantities of PIIGS bonds to prevent massive spikes.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=GIGB10YR:IND

Personally, I would not be buying a house currently. I'm renting and saving, so that if things go the way I think they will then I will be able to either leave the country if necessary, or if things aren't so bad, buy a house at a reasonable multiple of irish salaries.

I see no way we won't default as a country, even if it's in the greek style of default, where they're being held up by the EU, their debts are being restructured and they're suffering through major fiscal reforms. I can't see anything better than long-term high levels of structural unemployment for Ireland, and that's my optimistic view.

I wouldn't buy a house this side of all that. Even if I felt I was getting a reasonable deal.

Only saying this is as you have yet to sign, Dev. If you do, then best of luck with the place, I'm sure you'll be grand either way. I just think one way is safer and easier. This is a fantastic time to be renting!