Exclusive Bottle Feeding

Ayla

Ok, so here's a question that I've been wondering...

For those out there who decide to bottlefeed from Day 1, can I ask why? I know there are all sorts of reasons why people may try breastfeeding then stop, but I am curious why new parents decide - sometimes even before the child's birth - to bottle feed exclusively.

Please note, I am in no way judging or critising (to each their own). This is always just something I've wondered.

crazy cat lady

My friend never breastfed with her first or second child as she was taking warfarin and wasn't sure if it would affect the baby.

She considered it with her third but then had such an awful time at delivery (emergency C-Section under general anaesthetic) that it just went out the window.

She also said that she didn't want to feel like a cow being milked and that she always saw her breasts as sexual objects.

I think for a lot of people its a social thing tho. They know they wouldn't feel comfortable breastfeeding in public or around friends and family. I also think you are more likely to breastfeed if your mother breastfed.

bubbaloo

I b/fed for 4 days on my little man and if I were to ever have another I would go straight to bottle. I was extremely ill (seriously) after 4 days so had no choice but to bottle feed him. But the next time I wouldn't even try to breastfeed. It means that the responsibility can be shared, and that Mum might actually get a night' sleep every so often when Dad or someone else can share the burden. It also means that Mum (and Dad) can have some time away from the baby and leave him/her with a babysitter/family member. I've heard all the stories about the health benefits of breastfeeding etc but honestly I don't think it has made any difference to my son. If you build up their immune systems in other ways - not wrapping them up in cotton wool - they will be strong and healthy and hopefully live a happy life.
I think a lot of people try to breastfeed because they feel pressured into it - I know I did, but I wouldn't let anyone pressure me again.
Just my opinion - based on my own experience.

metrovelvet

I tried for a few days but couldn't so i had to use the bottle.

While my boobs are still in great shape, if you dont mind me saying so, I wish I could have.

It meant whenever the baby was asleep I was up cleaning and sterilizing.

As a single parent, bottle feeding did not mean sharing the work, but doubling it.

MrsA

I never even attempted to breastfeed. Bottle was the right choice for us as a family and I have no regrets or no guilty feelings (unlike others who made the same choice)

I always wonder why other people care about how people feed their babies, what does it matter to anyone else how I or any other random punter feeds their child, as long as they are being fed surely that is the main thing?

There were many reasons for our decision, but, at the end of the day it was a decision that my husband and I made, and I don't feel I need to explain it to anyone.

Ayla

MrsA wrote: »

I never even attempted to breastfeed. Bottle was the right choice for us as a family...There were many reasons for our decision, but, at the end of the day it was a decision that my husband and I made, and I don't feel I need to explain it to anyone.

Ok, MrsA, I completely respect this decision that you & your family made. You're right, it is each parent's decision how they feed their children, and as long as the babe's healthy & fed I suppose it doesn't really matter.

Maybe my query just stems from a larger, broader question...maybe I should explain. As an example - research undeniably shows that reguarly smoking/drinking/taking drugs is unhealthy, but so many still do it. Stats show that wearing a helmet or seatbelt can save your life, but many don't bother. Education can open career paths & opportunities, but many parents don't encourage their kids to study. And the examples go on...

My question is just...why? Why do people chose against research & advice? And specifically with the bottle vs. boob issue...is it purely a modesty/convenience/social norms issue that makes people opt for the bottle? Do people believe the bottle can be physically better (not just "as good as", but actually better) for mom & babe? And if they don't think it's better, how does the convenience of bottle feeding make it worth it?

Please understand I'm not critizing or judging anyone...at the end of the day we're all here & our kids are alright, so I'm just trying to understand the "other side of the coin."

bulmersgal

I would of loving to breastfeed but as I had split with my partner I wanted him to be able to go off with baby and bond so I kinda had to bottle feed. I'm glad I bottle fed though as she was a very hungry baby was drinking 5oz bottles 6 times a day from week 2.

Ayla

bulmersgal wrote: »

I would of loving to breastfeed but as I had split with my partner I wanted him to be able to go off with baby and bond so I kinda had to bottle feed.

Did you consider expressing?

gowayouttadat

I bottle fed from day one. My son was unplanned and unexpected. I wasn't planning to have a baby but once it happened we were happy he'd come along. I thought about breast feeding but went for bottle feeding instead. I don't 100% agree that breast is best.
In my own head, and this is just a total me thing, i'd be much more confident feeding a baby from a bottle rather than from the breast. I honestly don't know why but the idea of breast feeding scares me a small bit. Once the mom is happy the baby will be happy too. A stresesd mom trying to breast feed when she feels it doesn't come particularly naturally to her is not going to be good for either herself or the baby.
The other side of it is I think it REALLY helped my other half to bond with our son. He had never even held a baby before Jack arrived and within an hour was feeding him his first ever bottle in the delivery room. I firmly believe that if I was breast feeding he wouldn't have had as much time on his own with the baby and wouldn't have gotten as confident handling him as quicly as he did. I know you can express but that doesn't work for everyone either.
Just my opinon. If I was to have another one I might try breast feeding now that I have one under my belt and am more confident with babies etc but I wouldn't have any hesitation going for the bottle again.

implausible

gowayouttadat wrote: »

I don't 100% agree that breast is best.

For the baby it is .

Ayla, in answer to your question. I think it is a social thing. Breastfeeding is not the norm in this country, which considering it's the biological norm is mad. Many people have never seen a woman breastfeed and it can make a breastfeeding woman feel like a freak, not because it's unnatural, but because of society's perception.

I'm breastfeeding my 3 month old and when out shopping yesterday, took the little fella back to the car to feed him as I couldn't face going into a café on my own. If I had company, I may have been braver. My brothers leave the room when I feed, a neighbour took her child out of the room the other day! It's things like this that really put women off.

That's my two cent anyway.

Ayla

deemark wrote: »

I'm breastfeeding my 3 month old and when out shopping yesterday, took the little fella back to the car to feed him as I couldn't face going into a café on my own. If I had company, I may have been braver. My brothers leave the room when I feed, a neighbour took her child out of the room the other day! It's things like this that really put women off.

I've heard of some people experiencing this, but can't say I had it myself...I b/fed my 2 girls - both for 7-8 months - and never once noticed anyone looking at me in public. I'd do it (discretly) anywhere and all I can guess is that folks thought the babe was sleeping. Of course, both of the girls reached an age where they'd snort & grope (then, of course, have to come up for air or have a look around). I just laughed about it - what else can you do?

I imagine some women may be hesitant to try b/feeding b/c they imagine they would be stygmatized or stared at. Can't say I had a problem with that though.

CathyMoran

I was advised by my medical team that it would be better for my son to be bottle fed on premature baby milk. My son was delivered by c-section as he was "failing to thrive" and was only 4lb 11oz at birth - I had been very sick for the pregnancy too which did not help. I did give him the colostrum and pumped 2 feeds a day for the first 5 weeks. I felt very upset about it but I had to listen to the medical advice.

MrsA

Ayla wrote: »

My question is just...why? Why do people chose against research & advice? And specifically with the bottle vs. boob issue...is it purely a modesty/convenience/social norms issue that makes people opt for the bottle? Do people believe the bottle can be physically better (not just "as good as", but actually better) for mom & babe? And if they don't think it's better, how does the convenience of bottle feeding make it worth it?

Please understand I'm not critizing or judging anyone...at the end of the day we're all here & our kids are alright, so I'm just trying to understand the "other side of the coin."

People "choose" for exactly that reason, it is a CHOICE! It is worth it for me and my children to be bottle fed, it is not poison, it is baby formula, okay it is not made in my boobs, but, it is a pretty good alternative. Breast milk is designed by nature for babies, no debate, and yes it is "best" but, there are other things to consider.

Regardless of how you word it you do seem to be judging people. You seem to be saying that those of us who bottle feed but, convenience before the health of our children, that is simply not true.

I don't know why I am bothering to reply to this again, you seem to have a nice comfortable spot up there on the high moral ground :rolleyes:

Cat Melodeon

MrsA wrote: »

People "choose" for exactly that reason, it is a CHOICE! It is worth it for me and my children to be bottle fed, it is not poison, it is baby formula, okay it is not made in my boobs, but, it is a pretty good alternative. Breast milk is designed by nature for babies, no debate, and yes it is "best" but, there are other things to consider.

Regardless of how you word it you do seem to be judging people. You seem to be saying that those of us who bottle feed but, convenience before the health of our children, that is simply not true.

I don't know why I am bothering to reply to this again, you seem to have a nice comfortable spot up there on the high moral ground :rolleyes:

It's not a moral point, it's a health point. Breastmilk is not "best" it is normal. The OP has not made any judgement, nor has she any right to. How people choose to feed their children is their own business. However there is a value in knowing why some people choose to feed their children processed food rather than natural food, if only to improve breastfeeding initiatives and public health policies. There is an awful lot of misinformation out there and it is understandable that those who have not breastfed due to poor support, misinformation or for medical reasons may feel sensitive about the issue. However it's only by understanding why bottlefeeding remains so common in the face of all the research and medical advice that the status quo can be shifted. The HSE, in line with WHO research, aims for ALL babies to be breastfed, unless there are medical reasons why that can't be the case. There is a reason for that, and it's not a moral one.

gogo

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

It's not a moral point, it's a health point. Breastmilk is not "best" it is normal. The OP has not made any judgement, nor has she any right to. How people choose to feed their children is their own business. However there is a value in knowing why some people choose to feed their children processed food rather than natural food, if only to improve breastfeeding initiatives and public health policies. There is an awful lot of misinformation out there and it is understandable that those who have not breastfed due to poor support, misinformation or for medical reasons may feel sensitive about the issue. However it's only by understanding why bottlefeeding remains so common in the face of all the research and medical advice that the status quo can be shifted. The HSE, in line with WHO research, aims for ALL babies to be breastfed, unless there are medical reasons why that can't be the case. There is a reason for that, and it's not a moral one.

Fixed your post to reflect my views on this. What "value" does the op get out of knowing what/why people feed their babies, or is Ayla representing the HSE now?

bulmersgal

We've all made our choice on how to feed OUR babies. Not like I can start breast feeding now! So dont understand why you are trying to make us feel bad because we didn't breast feed like yourself

Nevyn

Right listen up I am saying this only once.
The parenting forum and it's sub forums including this one have a support and sharing ethos. The charter states:

Please remember that there are many different ways and styles of parenting
and if you disagree with someone then agree to disagree and keep things civil as per the rules.

The rules for the site also say attack the post not the poster, debate their points and questions do not have a go at them personally.

I don't think Ayla started this thread to have a go at mother's who do no breastfeed but to ask about the range of reasons why, which is reasonable.

Any snide or high handed replies to this thread will result in bans from this forum. I am sure you are all well capable to discuss the topic with out resulting to stroppy posting or silly stunts and hopefully both sides will come to a better understanding through the discussion.

Nevyn

Any women who has a child in this country will have gotten the message loud and clear that breastfeeding is an option to consider and that there are suports for those who want to and that from an imune system point of view it is what is best for the baby.

But there are plenty of babies who grow up happy, healthy and thrive with out being breastfed and we are bless as women living in this age that there is the option of forumula for hundreds of years breastfeeding was the only option and if you couldn't you usually had to hand your child over to someone else to nurse them or else the infant
with die.

So we are lucky and so are our children.

Cat Melodeon

gogo wrote: »

Fixed your post to reflect my views on this. What "value" does the op get out of knowing what/why people feed their babies, or is Ayla representing the HSE now?

Why don't you ask her?

Personally, I've been working with local Public Health Nurses to develop resources to support mothers who breastfeed in our area. This involves keeping abridge of current research and best practice, holding baby-friendly coffee mornings and yes, finding out the reasons why some women struggle to breast feed and why some people prefer not to try. There is great value in this work, it aims to normalise breastfeeding, helps people who are breastfeeding and encourages others to support it or even try it themselves. It is not activism, lactivism or boob fascism, it is health policy implementation.

Charlies Angel

I'm the mother of a 3 month old boy and any future children I have will be bottle fed from day 1 for sure.

I had a very difficult and traumatic birth, however I did get some help with bf'ing in the hospital. After that 4 days, I was on my own (in the bf'ing sense ie I had family around me but no-one with bf'ing experience) I paid a private lactation consultant 180 euro to help me... DS and I had difficulty maintaining his "latch" position and I was in agony trying to feed him.

I was in severe pain generally and was suffering a horrific recovery. It got to the stage where nipples were bleeding and sore, DS was hungry, I was dreading feeding him. He was upset and crying as he wasn't getting fed enough/to his satisfaction, I was crying because I was in such pain and poor DH didn't know what to do.. It was bad enough being in pain one end, without suffering it 2 ends! I was crying tears down on top of my child and felt feeding him was a chore and wasn't enjoying him as I should have been.

Day 6 after birth, I gave up and put DS on Formula. Our house turned from house of horrors to the happy home it's remained as such since. I don't regret my decision to give up one little bit and will not consider breastfeeding any future kids we might have. I'm so sorry I even gave it a shot..

Breastmilk is best, but breastfeeding isn't always best in my experience.

implausible

Charlies Angel wrote: »

<snip>
I did get some help with bf'ing in the hospital. After that 4 days, I was on my own (in the bf'ing sense ie I had family around me but no-one with bf'ing experience) I paid a private lactation consultant 180 euro to help me... DS and I had difficulty maintaining his "latch" position and I was in agony trying to feed him.

I was in severe pain generally and was suffering a horrific recovery. It got to the stage where nipples were bleeding and sore, DS was hungry, I was dreading feeding him.

<snip>

I'm so sorry I even gave it a shot..

Your story is quite common Charlie. It's crazy that you are left on your own, that many of the PHNs in this country know feck all about breastfeeding and that two generations of women are unable to help. The women around you should be able to share their experiences and warn you that it will hurt for a while. Only for a friend of mine, I would've quit at the eye-watering, cracked stage too. Nobody should have to hire a lactation consultant, as if they are this big luxury, it should be a standard part of the PHNs skill set.

However, I'm stunned that anyone would say she is sorry that she "even gave it a shot". You did it and didn't continue, the pain is gone now and your baby got the most important stage of breastfeeding - your colostrum. Why would you be sorry about that?

Cat Melodeon

Charlies Angel wrote: »

...
I had a very difficult and traumatic birth, however I did get some help with bf'ing in the hospital. After that 4 days, I was on my own (in the bf'ing sense ie I had family around me but no-one with bf'ing experience) I paid a private lactation consultant 180 euro to help me... DS and I had difficulty maintaining his "latch" position and I was in agony trying to feed him.

I was in severe pain generally and was suffering a horrific recovery. It got to the stage where nipples were bleeding and sore, DS was hungry, I was dreading feeding him. He was upset and crying as he wasn't getting fed enough/to his satisfaction, I was crying because I was in such pain and poor DH didn't know what to do.. It was bad enough being in pain one end, without suffering it 2 ends! I was crying tears down on top of my child and felt feeding him was a chore and wasn't enjoying him as I should have been.

Day 6 after birth, I gave up and put DS on Formula. Our house turned from house of horrors to the happy home it's remained as such since. I don't regret my decision to give up one little bit and will not consider breastfeeding any future kids we might have. I'm so sorry I even gave it a shot..

Breastmilk is best, but breastfeeding isn't always best in my experience.

I also think that lack of family support or experience of breastfeeding by other family members can be a crucial missing link for many people. I also 'hit the wall' on Day 4 and would probably have introduced the bottle had I not had my sister staying with me for the week after the birth. She had breastfed her two, and remembered our mum breastfeeding our younger siblings. She knew the course that breastfeeding typically takes and I was very lucky that she stayed with me and was able to reassure me that the discomfort would soon pass. Very few people have that kind of support.

I think a lot of people, especially those who have never observed a close friend or family member breastfeeding, simply don't know what to expect when they begin to nurse. They don't always know that the first week can be sore (but that it passes) or what a good latch looks like (leading to sore nipples and an inefficiently feeding baby) or how to deal with blocked ducts or cracked nipples or whatever. There also seems to be an idea that breastfeeding is supposed to happen naturally or instinctively when in reality it has to be learned, either with lots of support or by observing other women doing it from when we are young. The latter isn't really an option in today's Ireland. Add to all that the stress of having your baby weighed every couple of days and being judged on the results by very patchily trained PHNs (a few are good and up to date in their training), it is no wonder that so many parents give up before they really have had a chance to get started, or that people who have had one bad experience prefer not to bother next time.

Nevyn

I am sure we had a breastfeeding support thread I am sure it can be dug up for those who want it.

I can also understand why those who choose to bottle feed may feel that they can't post in this thread to share their experiences as they will be pounced on with questions and an attempt made to re educate them, and doing that goes against the supportive ethos of the forum.

metrovelvet

cat melodeon-

There is a fine line between support and pressure.

I honestly believe that the nurses, the lactation consultants, the breasstfeeding classes in the hospital put so much pressure on me that I was inhibited.

I think if I were left alone with a six pack of beer and a comfy chair the let down would have come.

Instead I was handed breast pumps and manhandled by nurses, [I could even see the baby was inhibited by it too], swamped with info about compresses and do this and do that and do this, and no dont do that and.... well you get the picture.

Charlies Angel

deemark wrote: »

Your story is quite common Charlie. It's crazy that you are left on your own, that many of the PHNs in this country know feck all about breastfeeding and that two generations of women are unable to help. The women around you should be able to share their experiences and warn you that it will hurt for a while. Only for a friend of mine, I would've quit at the eye-watering, cracked stage too. Nobody should have to hire a lactation consultant, as if they are this big luxury, it should be a standard part of the PHNs skill set.

However, I'm stunned that anyone would say she is sorry that she "even gave it a shot". You did it and didn't continue, the pain is gone now and your baby got the most important stage of breastfeeding - your colostrum. Why would you be sorry about that?

Yes, you're right of course. It was best for baby, even for the few days to get the colostrum.

However for me I feel I we will always look back on the first few days of DS life as a time of misery, pain, and upset. I wish it wasn't the case. I wish I'd been able to enjoy him more at that time, and that baby had been more content/satisfied in that time... I'd hate for me and my family to go through all of that again.

Charlies Angel

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

I also think that lack of family support or experience of breastfeeding by other family members can be a crucial missing link for many people. I also 'hit the wall' on Day 4 and would probably have introduced the bottle had I not had my sister staying with me for the week after the birth. She had breastfed her two, and remembered our mum breastfeeding our younger siblings. She knew the course that breastfeeding typically takes and I was very lucky that she stayed with me and was able to reassure me that the discomfort would soon pass. Very few people have that kind of support.

I think a lot of people, especially those who have never observed a close friend or family member breastfeeding, simply don't know what to expect when they begin to nurse. They don't always know that the first week can be sore (but that it passes) or what a good latch looks like (leading to sore nipples and an inefficiently feeding baby) or how to deal with blocked ducts or cracked nipples or whatever. There also seems to be an idea that breastfeeding is supposed to happen naturally or instinctively when in reality it has to be learned, either with lots of support or by observing other women doing it from when we are young. The latter isn't really an option in today's Ireland. Add to all that the stress of having your baby weighed every couple of days and being judged on the results by very patchily trained PHNs (a few are good and up to date in their training), it is no wonder that so many parents give up before they really have had a chance to get started, or that people who have had one bad experience prefer not to bother next time.

Phn visited me once. I explained my difficulties with bf'ing, she said it was "unfortunate, but keep trying". I haven't seen or heard from a PHN since and thats why I contacted a private LC for help.

Cat Melodeon

metrovelvet wrote: »

cat melodeon-

There is a fine line between support and pressure.

I honestly believe that the nurses, the lactation consultants, the breasstfeeding classes in the hospital put so much pressure on me that I was inhibited.

I think if I were left alone with a six pack of beer and a comfy chair the let down would have come.

Instead I was handed breast pumps and manhandled by nurses, [I could even see the baby was inhibited by it too], swamped with info about compresses and do this and do that and do this, and no dont do that and.... well you get the picture.

I completely understand this and it demonstrates how badly trained staff are and how few resources there are once you've had your baby. Support should not turn into pressure. Some women need someone there to hold their hand through the first few days, others need to be left alone to get on with it. In all cases, the support person needs to know when to offer advice and intervention, when to back off (and provide a comfy chair and a beer if desired!) and how to offer support in a nonconfrontational, kind and unpreachy way. Not every PHN is equipped with the skills to offer that kind of support, many are overworked, seem to have questions to ask and checklists to tick and very little firsthand knowledge of breastfeeding.

Thaedydal, I may across as preachy (not helped by it being a faceless internet forum) when I don't mean to be. It is a topic people are extremely sensitive about and it's a shame that people feel that any enquiry into their experiences is a criticism rather than a genuine attempt to understand the barriers and inhibitions people might have encountered.

Nevyn

This thread started out as a why do people bottle feed and swifty turned into being about breastfeeding, that derailment is exactly why you don't get discussion on the topic of why new parents choose to bottle feed.

implausible

Thaedydal wrote: »

This thread started out as a why do people bottle feed and swifty turned into being about breastfeeding, that derailment is exactly why you don't get discussion on the topic of why new parents choose to bottle feed.

In fairness, it's impossible to discuss one without the other and one of the reasons that Catmelodeon (and I) were offering for women bottle-feeding is the lack of appropriate support for breastfeeding. It's hardly derailment to answer the OP's question.

Nevyn

deemark wrote: »

In fairness, it's impossible to discuss one without the other and one of the reasons that Catmelodeon (and I) were offering for women bottle-feeding is the lack of appropriate support for breastfeeding. It's hardly derailment to answer the OP's question.

It is possible to discuss one with out the other and women who have made up their mind before birth to bottle feed and not to attempt to breastfeed are not going to be effected by that lack of support.

metrovelvet

deemark wrote: »

In fairness, it's impossible to discuss one without the other and one of the reasons that Catmelodeon (and I) were offering for women bottle-feeding is the lack of appropriate support for breastfeeding. It's hardly derailment to answer the OP's question.

Sorry but it is breastfeeding naziism. We all know its better for the child.

But if its going to make the mother crazy then its not better for the child because all that anxiety is going to get transferred to the child.

Did you know that in the US welfare mothers used to get vouchers for formula? But the breastfeeding nazis put a stop to that to force them to breastfeed.

Nevyn

I think that starting a thread about bottle feeding to then question and "educate" those who respond to is not being honest and does more damage then good.

Like I have said before there is a breastfeeding support thread, you'll find it here and if it's active enough it won't need to be sticked it will be on the front page and if people want to share stories and tips and tricks and ask questions then that's wonderful but I won't have parents ambushed for thier choices under the guise of asking why.

CathyMoran

I did feel scared answering that I did not breastfeed, there is a huge stigma when you do not breastfeed and women who do not or can not feel like failures, or at least I did.

Das Kitty

There is so much guilt around the subject of feeding babies, I felt guilty when I was breastfeeding (I hated him being awake because I would have to feed him and endure agony, not a nice way to think about your child). I felt (and still feel) guilty when I stopped. All I ever wanted was to breastfeed my son and I got loads and loads of support and still it never worked out. It took 3 months before I was brave enough to stop and give James the happy mammy he deserves.

To be honest I think no one should have to justify their choice, and honestly that is what this thread feels like. If I didn't have the choice to stop, chances are I would be so traumatised by now that I wouldn't want another child and my relationship with my son might have been permanently damaged.

All that said I probably will try to breastfeed again with another baby, I doubt I'll continue for as long if we can't get past the initial hurdles though. The lactation consultant thought that I might have a physiological problem with my nipples so I'd definitely get that checked out first.

Nevyn

CathyMoran wrote: »

I did feel scared answering that I did not breastfeed,

No one should feel that about posting in this forum, ever.
It is the exact opposite of the founding ethos of the forum.

CathyMoran

The forum is brilliant, it is just that everywhere there is a stigma against not breast feeding - sorry if I did not make that clear. If you say that you do not breastfeed people in general will be very preechy and give out to you for not doing it.

metrovelvet

CathyMoran wrote: »

The forum is brilliant, it is just that everywhere there is a stigma against not breast feeding - sorry if I did not make that clear. If you say that you do not breastfeed people in general will be very preechy and give out to you for not doing it.

After I just had my baby and I had a really hard time with a lot of things, a friend of mine said about women who dont breastfeed "there really is no excuse for it."

Well, there are plenty. Mine being a baby who lost too much weight and milk that just wouldn't come down for a woman who just had a c section and no support and on her own dealing with all of it.

Some people are just mean.

CathyMoran

metrovelvet wrote: »

After I just had my baby and I had a really hard time with a lot of things, a friend of mine said about women who dont breastfeed "there really is no excuse for it."

Well, there are plenty. Mine being a baby who lost too much weight and milk that just wouldn't come down for a woman who just had a c section and no support and on her own dealing with all of it.

Some people are just mean.

I got it from parents and I had a sister in law who was doing it...people also look at you when you produce a bottle instead of brestfeed...it is horrific. Our son was also too small and born by c-section, he was born around Easter so none of the "lactation consultants" were there and I did not have a clue, I also was recovering from the pregnancy which took a lot out of me and as soon as my husband went back to work I did not have help to pump (it is better of you look at your child while doing it), I would have loved to have done it and if there hopefully is a next time I will go to classes to learn now to do it. I was lucky if I got to eat myself (he cries if I eat, he still does that). Sorry for the rant. I should state that I really love my son, he is a great little boy.

metrovelvet

CathyMoran wrote: »

I got it from parents and I had a sister in law who was doing it...people also look at you when you produce a bottle instead of brestfeed...it is horrific. Our son was also too small and born by c-section, he was born around Easter so none of the "lactation consultants" were there and I did not have a clue, I also was recovering from the pregnancy which took a lot out of me and as soon as my husband went back to work I did not have help to pump (it is better of you look at your child while doing it), I would have loved to have done it and if there hopefully is a next time I will go to classes to learn now to do it. I was lucky if I got to eat myself (he cries if I eat, he still does that). Sorry for the rant. I should state that I really love my son, he is a great little boy.

People can be so insensitive about it. Like you, I hardly had time to eat. My mother said to me "Even cows can give milk."

implausible

Thaedydal wrote: »

women who have made up their mind before birth to bottle feed and not to attempt to breastfeed are not going to be effected by that lack of support.

I beg to differ. The lack of support is one reason why women choose to bottle-feed. That is the point I was trying to get across, in answer to the OP's question. If you bottle-feed, the PHN knows all about it, the doctor checks your baby's weight against formula-fed charts and your sisters, aunts and mother can offer advice and help.

metrovelvet wrote: »

Sorry but it is breastfeeding naziism. We all know its better for the child.

But if its going to make the mother crazy then its not better for the child because all that anxiety is going to get transferred to the child.

I 100% agree - a mother's sanity shouldn't suffer for it and no woman should be forced to do it. But I think the term Naziism is completely ott, it implies not allowing another point of view, forcing people to do things and denying people their rights. Why on earth would this term be used in relation to what is a health issue? Non-smokers aren't referred to as non-smoking Nazis, I've never heard anyone described as a five-a-day Nazi, a driving carefully Nazi. I really resent that term. Breastfeeding women aren't allowed to say how they enjoy it or talk about the benefits for fear of being labelled or making others feel guilty.

CathyMoran wrote: »

I did feel scared answering that I did not breastfeed, there is a huge stigma when you do not breastfeed and women who do not or can not feel like failures, or at least I did.

Cathy, I know your situation and after trying so hard there is no need to feel like a failure. I sincerely hope that nothing I said made you feel that you were.

Das Kitty wrote: »

There is so much guilt around the subject of feeding babies, I felt guilty when I was breastfeeding (I hated him being awake because I would have to feed him and endure agony, not a nice way to think about your child). I felt (and still feel) guilty when I stopped. All I ever wanted was to breastfeed my son and I got loads and loads of support and still it never worked out. It took 3 months before I was brave enough to stop and give James the happy mammy he deserves.

To be honest I think no one should have to justify their choice, and honestly that is what this thread feels like. If I didn't have the choice to stop, chances are I would be so traumatised by now that I wouldn't want another child and my relationship with my son might have been permanently damaged.

All that said I probably will try to breastfeed again with another baby

Again, you tried and are willing to do so again, so what is there to feel guilty about? The lack of support wasn't an issue here. I don't know the OP, but I believe she genuinely wanted to know the reasons for the popularity of bottle-feeding in this country - convenience, stigma against breastfeeding, marketing, health reasons....whatever.

CathyMoran wrote: »

The forum is brilliant, it is just that everywhere there is a stigma against not breast feeding - sorry if I did not make that clear. If you say that you do not breastfeed people in general will be very preechy and give out to you for not doing it.

To be honest, I find the stigma goes the other way - my brothers leave the room when I feed, a neighbour took her child out the other day and very few shops have a place for it. My mother is amazed my baby is gaining weight like a bottle-fed (i.e. "normal") baby, my mother-in-law often suggests topping him up with formula and friends constantly ask me how long I'm going to keep it up, as if it's a diet or something awkward I'm on.

metrovelvet wrote: »

After I just had my baby and I had a really hard time with a lot of things, a friend of mine said about women who dont breastfeed "there really is no excuse for it."

Now, there'sa Nazi! That's just tactless and uncalled for.

I'll finish on this: if a woman makes an educated decision to bottle-feed for lifestyle reasons and is happy with her decision, nobody should be able to make her feel guilty. Likewise, it is illogical to feel guilt if a woman tries, but cannot. Or maybe it's just a female thing - we feel guilty about everything!

CathyMoran

metrovelvet wrote: »

People can be so insensitive about it. Like you, I hardly had time to eat. My mother said to me "Even cows can give milk."

I am so sorry that you went through that too. You really have no time in the first few months at least for anything but your child - they are wonderful and I want more but you will never stop worrying about them or caring for them - it is one of the most fulfilling things that I have ever done though

Nevyn

Like I said there are lots of posters and leaflets publicising breastfeeding and we have threads about it here and there are lots of other sites and forums which have the same and there are support groups out there so anyone who is interested and wants to can learn a lot.

Those who don't want to will get the information and if they choose not to then that is their choice. I am happy to see those who wish to breastfeed being supported but I won't tolerate those who choose not to be condemned for it, or being told they are ignorant.

I was lucky that my Mother encouraged me as she had breastfed 4/5 of us and it was "normal" with in the circles of family and friends. But I know there are intolerant ignorant twits of both sides of topic and extremists never help their causes.

I know mothers who bottle feed and mother's who breastfeed both get people making comments thinking they are entitled to do so cos it's either for the good of the baby(either way) or reflecting that society is obsessed with what we do with our bodies and telling us what we should do with our bodies for our good and the good of others. TBH they can all go suck a lemon, and let mothers and fathers choose what is best for their family.

Swizzles

I breastfed for the first three days..On the day i was due to come home i had not slept the night before as i had a 10lb baby and she wanted to feed constantly..She didnt like the aptimal top up and just wanted the comfort..I was shattered ..I came to the conclusion that baby would benefit from a healthy mom more and aswell as that i was a bottle fed baby and im still alive...I also felt breastfeeding made me more emotional..The guilt i felt afterwards was unbelievable,Mainly due to the media and the breast is best campaign..I have to say i wouldnt judge anyone who chose not to breastfeed as it is natural but not easy...
I had a baby who was extremely keen but unfortunately i didnt want to hear her screams for hours because she was still hungry to me baby benefited from me not being selfish and forcing something that was clearly distressing us both...

Cat Melodeon

Thaedydal wrote: »

Those who don't want to will get the information and if they choose not to then that is their choice. I am happy to see those who wish to breastfeed being supported but I won't tolerate those who choose not to be condemned for it, or being told they are ignorant.

I really don't think anyone anywhere on this thread has condemned anyone or told them they are ignorant, Nazi name-calling aside.

Nevyn

I said it won't be tolerated, I have seen this discussion polarise too many other on line communties, this hasn't been a flash point until now and if everyone keeps in mind the charter and rules of the forum we won't ended up with people pissed off on both sides.

metrovelvet

Thaedydal wrote: »

Like I said there are lots of posters and leaflets publicising breastfeeding and we have threads about it here and there are lots of other sites and forums which have the same and there are support groups out there so anyone who is interested and wants to can learn a lot.

Those who don't want to will get the information and if they choose not to then that is their choice. I am happy to see those who wish to breastfeed being supported but I won't tolerate those who choose not to be condemned for it, or being told they are ignorant.

I was lucky that my Mother encouraged me as she had breastfed 4/5 of us and it was "normal" with in the circles of family and friends. But I know there are intolerant ignorant twits of both sides of topic and extremists never help their causes.

I know mothers who bottle feed and mother's who breastfeed both get people making comments thinking they are entitled to do so cos it's either for the good of the baby(either way) or reflecting that society is obsessed with what we do with our bodies and telling us what we should do with our bodies for our good and the good of others. TBH they can all go suck a lemon, and let mothers and fathers choose what is best for their family.

This is absolutely true. Once you're pregnant it's like your body is public property.

What kind of annoys me in this thread, even the pro breastfeeders who with the best of intentions are trying to educate those who bottlefeed, and who say things like "there's no need to feel guillty" is that it is quite patronising. We know breastfeeding is immumilogically better and nutritionally better for the baby. Everybody knows that. I heard nothing but that for the majority of my pregnancy. Shut up already.

It's like if I went on the pregnancy boards and started lecturing them about not drinking milkshakes or eating seafood and to stop smoking.

They know that. They dont need me to tell them.

Ayla

gogo wrote: »

What "value" does the op get out of knowing what/why people feed their babies, or is Ayla representing the HSE now?

This is always a hot topic, but for the life of me I can't understand why. I thought I made it pointedly clear in my posts that I was really just trying to learn about other people's point of view.

It's been said a thousand times, but once more won't hurt. How you feed your child is your choice, and as long as they're thriving & you're happy than all's well. My question purely stemmed from the fact that I can explain several reasons why I *chose* to breastfeed, and I was interested to know of the reasons why other people may *choose* to bottlefeed. Pure & simple. No hidden agendas, no criticism, no opinions.

Through some of the posts I've heard the reasons being: convenience (including sleep) and the opportunity for bonding b/w dad & babe. Are there any other reasons or should we close this thread before everyone gets their noses outta wack?

lonestargirl

One issue that hasn't really been raised yet, probably because it doesn''t affect too many Irish people, is the length of maternity leave. I have no entitlement to paid leave, my employer doesn't have to hold my job for me for more than 12 weeks. I'm very lucky as a PhD student in that one of my supervisors is due 4 weeks before me and the other has 2 kids himself so they are both supportive of me taking a whole semester off. In Ireland if you are self-employed you may have a situation where you are back in work in 4-6 weeks and breastfeeding may not be a practical option.

I was chatting on the phone with my mum the other night and we were discussing breastfeeding. I am planning on doing it for the first few weeks at least, she was warning me not to put too much pressure on myself to be the 'perfect' mother and that there are far worse things I could be doing to my child (she herself breastfed all 3 of us).

As a doctor my husband would like me to try and breastfeed for at least a week but again he doesn't think I should put too much pressure on myself - after all he was bottlefed and he turned out ok!

Chuchu

I've dipped in and out of this thread and thought I 'd throw in my few cents without quoting from other posts but just to give the OP some other answers if that's what she wants...

I decided to bottlefeed from day one long before I ever got pregnant.

I am 120% happy with my decision.

I do not feel guilty.

My husband and my close family (including his mother who breastfed) are 120% happy with the decision, especially as both sets of Grandparents are caring for her since I went back to work and both got to bond with her early on (not to mention my husband.) I have had experience of friends whose husbands felt 'left out' early on, but this is just anecdotal and not why I chose not to breatfeed. I know you can express. This argument would not influnce me as I had already decided not to breatfeed.

I am a bit of a worrier and I was happier knowing how much my baby had consumed and not a guestimate, this was a major factor FOR ME.

But this is what I think is the cruncher for me, I was bottlefed, I am healthy, I have a fantastic relationship with my mother, I did what I AM comfortable with knowing that my mother did a bl**dy good job.

I do not believe that I have altered my child's immune system or capabilities by not breast feeding her, again anacedotal, but two friends of mine's children who were breastfed have had more infections in the first year than mine, coincidence possibliy but there you have it. I don't get sick often and don't belive that my health NOW or when I was younger has anything to do with whether my mother breastfed in the first few months or years of my life or not. Diet after the first year is much more important in terms of raising a healthy child in my mind.

mohawk

CathyMoran wrote: »

I did feel scared answering that I did not breastfeed, there is a huge stigma when you do not breastfeed and women who do not or can not feel like failures, or at least I did.

It goes both ways. I breastfed for 10 months and my family were not one bit supportive about it. I got constant comments about it and I had to go to a seperate room to BF.
I can see how some breastfeeders become militant about it but it causes a backlash. attacking people who choose to bottle feed gets you nowhere it probably makes people even less likely to breastfeed.
We are now in a situation where no matter how you feed your child there are people who don't agree with you and you have to defend yourself. At the end of the day its your choice how to feed you baby you are the parent. If you are happy with your choice then there should be no guilt.

metrovelvet

mohawk wrote: »

It goes both ways. I breastfed for 10 months and my family were not one bit supportive about it. I got constant comments about it and I had to go to a seperate room to BF.
I can see how some breastfeeders become militant about it but it causes a backlash. attacking people who choose to bottle feed gets you nowhere it probably makes people even less likely to breastfeed.
We are now in a situation where no matter how you feed your child there are people who don't agree with you and you have to defend yourself. At the end of the day its your choice how to feed you baby you are the parent. If you are happy with your choice then there should be no guilt.

Because there is still a culture out there which says women are not to be trusted with their own bodies.