protein intake

newby.204

firstly ill apologise for this thread as im sure it was covered before, i used the search function and cant seem to turn up any usefull results

Im 206.8lbs/94kg

I have found to different protein requirements
1-2g per lb of lean mass
or
1-2g per kg of lean mass

now naurally these are vastly different amounts

say we take it as 1.5g/lb

that means
per lb its 310.2g
or
141g

can anyone clarify which it is, obviously i dont want to take in too little ill get nowhere fast and too much and ill be pissing my money away!!

Khannie

What is your goal?

1g per lb of bodyweight or 2g per KG is what I'd recommend for most active people. I aim for around 120-140g a day give or take and I'm around 64-65KG most of the time.

edit: For you I'd say around 180-200g a day is probably good, again depending on what you're after.

newby.204

sorry shoulda put that up, wana hit 15st! Id like to get there as leanly, if thats a word, as possible or hit 15st7lbs and shave off the fat with hiit.

The Guvnor

1.5g per lb is a nice average to go for IMO.

Not too high and not too low either.

Bottom line is most people will not hit the protein target daily so if you aim for 1.5g you may average around the 1.25 which is still plenty etc.

Best of luck with it mate but expect to gain some cheese as you go - not possible any other way.

dave80

1 gram per pound is enough for me, I weight 250 getting tat amount of protein is hard enough

Big Ears

1.8g per kg of bodyweight is the most you'll need to take(that's on days of intense workout), anything more than that is wasted by the body and turned to fat.

On days of rest or relaxation, 0.8g per kg should be enough and 1.2 on days of moderate exercise.

Khannie

Big Ears wrote: »

anything more than that is wasted by the body and turned to fat

Pretty sure that's not true.

Cipher

Khannie wrote: »

Pretty sure that's not true.

Excess protein in anyones daily intake doesn't serve as a problem by turning to fat as long as your calorie intake ratio to calorie burn is correct.

Basically, in theory if you were to consume large amounts of either proteins/carbs or fats, whatever is leftover will be sent to the fat cells.

If you don't burn it off or discard it, no matter what is, it will be stored at fat.

Will Heffernan

Big Ears wrote: »

1.8g per kg of bodyweight is the most you'll need to take(that's on days of intense workout), anything more than that is wasted by the body and turned to fat.

That's completely false...you should refrain from saying that ever again.

Will Heffernan

Khannie wrote: »

Pretty sure that's not true.

Now this is true.

Will Heffernan

Cipher wrote: »

Excess protein in anyones daily intake doesn't serve as a problem by turning to fat as long as your calorie intake ratio to calorie burn is correct.

Basically, in theory if you were to consume large amounts of either proteins/carbs or fats, whatever is leftover will be sent to the fat cells.

If you don't burn it off or discard it, no matter what is, it will be stored at fat.

Can't leave you guys here alone for a minute.

sharky86

Will Heffernan wrote: »

That's completely false...you should refrain from saying that ever again.

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Now this is true.

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Can't leave you guys here alone for a minute.

Off Topic but man I like the way this guy works

hardtrainer

I would recommend 1.5-2g/kg protein per day for those who are training intensely. For the average joe the protein requirement is probably closer to 1g/kg or slightly less.

If muscle building is the aim though, it's very important to get sufficient carbohydrate and fats in the diet. High protein at the expense of calories from fats and carbs is counterproductive for building muscle.


Protein cannot be turned to fat. It must be used as a source of amino acids or for energy. Anything left over gets removed via kidneys.

Will Heffernan

sharky86 wrote: »

Off Topic but man I like the way this guy works

I hope you mean that in a good way?

Will Heffernan

hardtrainer wrote: »

I would recommend 1.5-2g/kg protein per day for those who are training intensely. For the average joe the protein requirement is probably closer to 1g/kg or slightly less.

I'd go along with that.

If muscle building is the aim though, it's very important to get sufficient carbohydrate and fats in the diet. High protein at the expense of calories from fats and carbs is counterproductive for building muscle.

That's where the debate starts...with the 'what's sufficient'.

Protein cannot be turned to fat. It must be used as a source of amino acids or for energy. Anything left over gets removed via kidneys.

Not exactly true.

There is a pathway for protein to be turned to fat but it rarely happens to any significant degree.

The whole protein debate in most cases lacks perspective because people talk in absolutes...like the grams per kilogram recommendations...most of them are framed with regard to skeletal muscle when the bodies requirements for protein are far more numerous and complicated than that.

Magic Eight Ball

Big Ears wrote: »

anything more than that is wasted by the body and turned to fat.

Please disregard.

Khannie wrote: »

Pretty sure that's not true.

That right there is the politest way possible of telling a someone their statement was full of ****. :pac:

TKD SC

Been thinking about protein recently as it happens...
I'm trying to figure out how I can get up to that much protein!
I'm roughly 85kg x 1.5 say = 130 grams of protein per day.

(I do martial arts 3/4 times per week and training for triathlon at moment, so possibly the 1.5 times should be 2, but let's stick with 1.5 anyway)

I'm a vegetarian too. Even still, I just googled that a 6oz steak has 40 grams of protein. It's hard to figure out how people get up to e.g. 130grams.

I've porridge for breakfast (protein in milk plus some seeds I throw in?)

Brown bread sambo for lunch (filled with cottage cheese, tomato, onion, leaves), with natural yogurt, orange and low fat king lite crisps.
So, protein in the cottage cheese and yogurt.

Dinner can depend and varies a lot. But, I reckon the most protein filled meal I have is one of the quorn burgers (roughly 18grams) plus linda mc cartney sausages (9grams maybe, can't remember just now).

I've now started for the last few weeks having a soya protein shake every day - being 20grams.

From the above, I reckon I'm probably only getting half way at best to the 130 grams...what do people do? What can I do??

Thanks very much
Simon

newby.204

right thanks for all the input, i reckon ill go with 1g/lb instead of 2g/kg, as its the higher of the two.

Big Ears

Will Heffernan wrote: »

That's completely false...you should refrain from saying that ever again.

Well yes protein is an energy source, and the excess protein past 1.8g per KG can be used for energy so it won't necessarily turn to fat but it's not going to be of benefit in terms of recovery/muscle growth. But if unused as an energy source excess protein can turn to fat(although some may just be excreted)

I suppose I should of said there is little benefit to consuming more than that amount and elaborated.

sharky86

Will Heffernan wrote: »

I hope you mean that in a good way?

Straight talking and knows when to tell people to go stick a fruit up there A**. Whats not to like eh. Bloody pity its a bloody hour and half drive to your gym!

Will Heffernan

Big Ears wrote: »

Well yes protein is an energy source, and the excess protein past 1.8g per KG can be used for energy so it won't necessarily turn to fat but it's not going to be of benefit in terms of recovery/muscle growth. But if unused as an energy source excess protein can turn to fat(although some may just be excreted)

I suppose I should of said there is little benefit to consuming more than that amount and elaborated.

You are still miles off I'm sorry to say.

You are either just plain wrong or just very confused. Either way I'm sorry to say this isn't a topic you want to be giving advice on.

You can have another go at clarifying your statements but I hope it'll be a lot better than this one

grimloch

TKD SC wrote: »

From the above, I reckon I'm probably only getting half way at best to the 130 grams...what do people do? What can I do??

Thanks very much
Simon

Throw in another shake for starters. Eggs, peanut butter, more milk. Do you eat fish? Tuna is a decent protein source.

Lentils are a decent source of protein for a veggie too I reckon, maybe buy a large bag of nuts aswell, a handful every now and again will provide you with a bit more protein.

The Guvnor

newby.204 wrote: »

right thanks for all the input, i reckon ill go with 1g/lb instead of 2g/kg, as its the higher of the two.

I'd aim higher as in all probability you will fall a bit short.
A good idea might be to note down what and when you eat for a week or so and work out on average what you are getting.

I'm miles short atm but will try and heed my own advice and aim for 1.5g per pound - 380g per day ad hope to average in around the 300g.

I've started eating a good bit of tuna again and in a wrap with some sweetcorn, red onion and mayo it's very tasty and something which 3 weeks in I have yet to tire of.

Tuna from memory is 27grams of protein per 100g drained weight so 300g (3 wraps) a day and you are at 81g, throw in two shakes of say 80g (75% protein) and that is another 120g so only 99g left to get - 300g chicken for dinner should get me up there.

Went a bit OT there!:)

Cipher

Will Heffernan wrote: »

You are still miles off I'm sorry to say.

You are either just plain wrong or just very confused. Either way I'm sorry to say this isn't a topic you want to be giving advice on.

You can have another go at clarifying your statements but I hope it'll be a lot better than this one

Will, can you clarify your statements. I not being smart, I'd just like to know your view on it.

My understanding was that excess calories don't just disappear.

Example:
So in 1 day I consume say 500/600g of just protein.

Each gram being 4 calories so 2000/2400 calories in that day.

Now say that my BMR is 1750 cals with no exercise on that day, what are you saying happens to the remaining unused cals?

Regardless to what it is broken down to, amino acids/glucose, won't excess carlories eventually get stored as fat.

Mellor

Cipher wrote: »

Will, can you clarify your statements. I not being smart, I'd just like to know your view on it.

My understanding was that excess calories don't just disappear.

Example:
So in 1 day I consume say 500/600g of just protein.

Each gram being 4 calories so 2000/2400 calories in that day.

Now say that my BMR is 1750 cals with no exercise on that day, what are you saying happens to the remaining unused cals?

Regardless to what it is broken down to, amino acids/glucose, won't excess carlories eventually get stored as fat.

He already clarified above, via correcting another post.

Protein can be turned to fat, in that the body's mechanism for this exists, but this rarely happens.
Excess protein, not used for energy or otherwise, is normally excreted by the kidneys.

TKD SC

grimloch wrote: »

Throw in another shake for starters. Eggs, peanut butter, more milk. Do you eat fish? Tuna is a decent protein source.

Lentils are a decent source of protein for a veggie too I reckon, maybe buy a large bag of nuts aswell, a handful every now and again will provide you with a bit more protein.

Thanks for reply. Yeh, think a second shake might be worthwhile.
Love milk and do drink a fair bit anyway. No, don't eat fish, or nuts! When I was in my teens I used to have a shake of raw egg in with orange juice, which was actually quite tasty, maybe getting an egg into me like this every day could be good? Googling an egg there shows about 6.5g protein in an egg, not great but ok. Actually, I could do a super shake of the proten mix, milk and an egg?!
Do eat lentils, but prob only once a week depending what's being cooked for dinner etc...
It just seems v tough to get enough protein...

Thanks
Simon

ps - sorry, don't mean to be hijacking the thread op!

Will Heffernan

Cipher wrote: »

Will, can you clarify your statements. I not being smart, I'd just like to know your view on it.

My understanding was that excess calories don't just disappear.

Example:
So in 1 day I consume say 500/600g of just protein.

Each gram being 4 calories so 2000/2400 calories in that day.

Now say that my BMR is 1750 cals with no exercise on that day, what are you saying happens to the remaining unused cals?

Regardless to what it is broken down to, amino acids/glucose, won't excess carlories eventually get stored as fat.

Like a lot of threads and lots of posters here you suffer from the 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing' syndrome which is cool...that's what forums are all about...I'm not trying to be a internet policeman...it'd be a full time job trying to correct all the stuff that is written here that was wrong or misinformed and that'd just be stuff written by personal trainers and gym instructors.

I'll try to find the time to write you a super short summary on protein metabolism today and hopefully that'll answer your question or clarify things.

rocky

Interesting articles on the bodyrecomposition site, for example this one:

Lyle McDonald - Excess Protein and Fat Storage

Will Heffernan

rocky wrote: »

Interesting articles on the bodyrecomposition site, for example this one:

Lyle McDonald - Excess Protein and Fat Storage

Thank you Rocky and thank you Lyle McDonald for saving me 30 mins of my day that I really didn't have to spare.

hooplah

TKD SC wrote: »

Been thinking about protein recently as it happens...
I'm trying to figure out how I can get up to that much protein!
I'm roughly 85kg x 1.5 say = 130 grams of protein per day.

quorn chicken pieces in salad
eggs for breakfast
ommelttes made with whole egg and cartons of egg white
a ball of mozzarella contains about 20g protein
whey shakes (I think eating soya in food like tofu or veggie burgers is ok but I wouldn't go overdosing on it if you're male - google soya and hormones if you want to read up on this. Some of what you'll come accross is mad anti-veggie ranting but theres some science stuff too ...)

Theres protein in lots of things - kidney beans, lentils etc but the bioavailability of the protein can be low. i.e. if you geat 20g of protein from kidney beans your body may only be able to use 10g. theres a handy pdf online showing this in a table but I can't find it now...

Personally i'm veggie and think eating enough protein can be easy enough - can be tough to do it while keeping calories down though

TKD SC

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/no-joy.html

pretty worried about my soya protein shake now!!
is it really true?

dmrs

Sorry to jump on this thread. I have been told to up my protein intake for the next few days and advised to drink milk - this is unrelated to fitness.

I don't like drinking milk on its own, but am happy to drink hot chocolate, porridge etc - if milk is heated, does it affect it's protein content?

I have no problem eating yogurt, cheese, nuts, seeds etc but I will force myself to drink milk if it has a considerably higher protein content.

hooplah

ah to be honest that site hardly looks like a reputable source of information does it?

I think I remember that theres some fairly well regarded study that suggested that soy could mimic progesteroone. Can't find and links to it now though .. On the upside I did find this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20378106

This article seems to cover some of the issues: http://www.healthyfellow.com/310/soy-guide-for-men/

To be honest I don't have the expertise to judge how good or scientific any of these studies are. I figure eating tofu and tvp containing processed foods occasionally won't do me any or much) harm. I never really considered soy shakes since I find whey works well in terms of cost and taste.

Ruu_Old

dmrs wrote: »

Sorry to jump on this thread. I have been told to up my protein intake for the next few days and advised to drink milk - this is unrelated to fitness.

I don't like drinking milk on its own, but am happy to drink hot chocolate, porridge etc - if milk is heated, does it affect it's protein content?

I have no problem eating yogurt, cheese, nuts, seeds etc but I will force myself to drink milk if it has a considerably higher protein content.

No, not really. It should retain its nutritional value. You can read a little more about denaturation at the bottom of the article linked here.

dmrs

Thanks for that Ruu - I'll check it out.