" SHINE A LIGHT ON POACHING "

jwshooter

Last year ( just at the end of the season ) a drive to stop poaching started "again" .

why not restart this now a few weeks before the season .


last year has to be one of the worse on record .

A few tips ..
keep a log book ,a small pocket note book ,record all numbers of dodgy jeeps/cars etc build up a data base with your mates .

if you see them parked take a pick with your phone/camera .keep a eye out for quad tracks ,crows on remains , etc .

have your local garda/wildlife rangers number on your phone .

if you have a small camera bring it ,you dont have to approach them just take pictures .
keep a eye out for so called deer stalkers that go out a few hours to early and home a few hours to late .

if your in a deer group see what there going to do .

there is enough stalker in the nargc,cai,ids,wdi ,ifa,wdg,lds to put a stop to this .

dont be shy in following up your report ,make it in writing or a e mail is best as there is a paper trail .

one stray shot some nite will bring us back to the 80s all the DOJ is looking for is one excuse to tighten up again .

its our sport lads , its up to us to look after it

J. Ramone

Chances are that there will be extra poaching activity in the first week or two of the season as the unspooked deer will be much easier. Remember poachers are poachers because they are lazy greedy basterds.

landkeeper

J. Ramone wrote: »

. Remember poachers are poachers because they are lazy greedy basterds.

now i'm playing the devils advocate here ,!!!!or possibly because they have been priced /pushed out of the ground they used to shoot for whatever reason

bunny shooter

This could get good anyone for some popcorn

I know a vigiliant watch in my gun clubs areas has restricted the activities of those who operate outside the law :cool:

J. Ramone

I know where you're coming from but the lamp men don't come into that category. Personally, I'm satisfied with a few head per year. If a guy gets his kicks from lighting nitro he should consider a different quarry.

Tackleberrywho

landkeeper wrote: »

now i'm playing the devils advocate here ,!!!!or possibly because they have been priced /pushed out of the ground they used to shoot for whatever reason

People might shoot more if ther family is not well off, happened a lot in the 80's.

Shooting to feed the family.
Desperate times. Like all lawbreaking; it ramps when the country is in poor times.

pajero2005

I think Tack could be right on this one. Crime rises is times of economic depression. I'm not saying people didn't poach before but I think it will become more wide spread in the coming years.

Not necessarily lads who were on leases in previous years and can't afford it now, more like guys with smaller calibers throwing caution to the wind and trying to fill the freezer. I've had loads of people asking for rabbits now who 2 years ago laughed at the idea of eating them!!

landkeeper

i was thinking more of the local lads who have shot an area for years then someone from miles away comes in pays for the lease or pays a farmer then brings in paying shooters from outside the state and gets all arsey and legal with the local lads claiming they are poaching

Alchemist2

I know it goes on in most counties or prob all but i see nothing wrong with someone gettin one for the pot i release adult birds every year onto ground that lots of ppl shoot and the way i see it is if i get a few over the dog im happy.. i am aware there is the commercial end of poaching but hell they cant all be painted with the one brush maybe im just being silly but as tack has pointed out harsh times and all that i guess if i was in that boat id do the same i have a young family and they come first.But i know your situation JW and it is frustrating

jwshooter

first off , i have never refused any one a animal or part of .

any stalker will give a animal or part of to most any one who would put to good use .

i have lost some very good ground over the years and i work hard on the ground i have ,but i never was compelled to shoot every animal i see and sell it on my lost or present ground .

we would give away a fair few animals every year .a man shooting a few to feed his kids is never a worry

THATS NOT THE PROBLEM .

large scale commercial poaching is . again this what is expected form irish stalkers .

what the eye dont see the heart will not miss . more poor excuses .:(

kildare.17hmr

ya'll have to forgive my ignorance here because i genuinly dont know, is the problem actually that bad?

landkeeper

if it's commercial poaching your worried about then thats the npws that need a kick in the arse/polite suggestions offered !!!! what you are talking about is the multiples that end up in game dealers shot god knows where, stags bucks hinds does all shot indescriminately , simple solution is a tagging system for deer that are legitamately shot and sold each stalker gets an allocation and can reapply for more when needed anyone selling deer to a game dealer without a tagg gets dealt with accordingly
or go the whole hog and make the sale of wild venison illegal
there used to be a major problem in scotland with the wholesale slaughter of greylags and pinkfeet the sale of wild geese was made illegal problem diminshed !!!
i think indeginous wildlife should be carefully managed not prostituted by those looking for a quick buck, the letting of deer shooting and the subletting for trophies disgusts me, the same as those bringing in flocks of italians shooting anything that moves , pheasants and mallard that can be reared and stocked is different but wild native game should not be a saleable comodity

pachey100

A fare amount of poaching goes on around here. It seems to happen mainly at christmas. If they ever come near my land god help them:mad:

johngalway

Do they be after a specific species of deer, or just anything with a hoof? No deer locally to me so I'm not familiar with them - yet!

Sparks

Sounds like a good idea to me, the only thing that sprang to mind would be to be careful about how you word things. If you had, say, a thread on here for all those photos and reports and you called it "People observed poaching", we'd have a defamation case on our hands inside a week.

jwshooter

i would like to keep this thread open for the season , to read the post above its obvious that people dont know whats going on about them .


the vast majority of poaching is done by licenced stalkers for want of a better word .
so this involves the npws for giving them the deer hunting licence and the gardai for giving them the firearm licence ,also to a small extent the nargc or cai ,ifa for insuring them .

landkeeper .

we used to use tags for deer years ago ,it did not work back then .

Sparks

The problem isn't with the idea of an "Observations" thread jw, but if you have a "poachers" thread, then the minute you post anything identifiable on it (like a licence plate, a photo, or any other kind of information), then boards.ie ltd. will be liable for a defamation case.

Got to change the title and tone of the thread. But there's nothing wrong with the idea of a "Seen while I was out hunting" thread with lots of photos and notes and a neutral tone, and I'm pretty sure the PTB and the NWPS would take a discrete interest.

Dusty87

But i dont think anyone said about posting pic's here under a 'these are poachers', sparks. Whats the story legal wise filming or taking pics of someone without them knowin?

Sparks

Dusty87 wrote: »

But i dont think anyone said about posting pic's here sparks. Whats the story legal wise filming or taking pics of someone without them knowin?

Taking photos in a public place is fine Dusty, you don't need someone's permission to take their photo in public unless you intend to use it commercially (in an advert or a magazine, for example). Recording what they say, I don't know about, and recording of any kind on private property is (so far as I know) right out. We'd want to ask the legal eagles - I only know about the restrictions on photos because of doing PRO stuff.

And I was under the impression jw wanted this thread as some kind of clearing-house, if I got that wrong, mae culpa.

Dusty87

Just wondering thats all. I heard before that if you record sound eg people talkin its illegal but video without sound is ok. Anyway sorry takin thread off topic. Just curious

Sparks

It's not really off-topic, given that it's germane to what jw had in the OP!

jwshooter

so if there was a sign up cctv in operation any where on my ground ,i can use a trail cam .

also whats defined as a public place and whats not

Sparks

CCTV, trail cam, helmet cam, cameras, all grand. Sound, don't think so - check with a solicitor. Filming without permission on private property (OR filming something on private property while you're in a public place) - right out of order.

And private generally means owned by someone other than the state - so someone's house, someone's back garden, the TCD campus, and half of the IFSC - all private property (and people have been stopped from taking photos in the IFSC on those grounds in the recent past btw).

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

CCTV, trail cam, helmet cam, cameras, all grand. Sound, don't think so - check with a solicitor. Filming without permission on private property (OR filming something on private property while you're in a public place) - right out of order.

And private generally means owned by someone other than the state - so someone's house, someone's back garden, the TCD campus, and half of the IFSC - all private property (and people have been stopped from taking photos in the IFSC on those grounds in the recent past btw).

so if a poacher is on property other that there own there fair game ,if you have the rights.

i know coillte are giving permission for the use of trail cams to help stop poaching .

some wild deer ireland members are using them on there grounds also . it would be interesting to see one get to court .

the county councils are using them and the like to catch dumpers ,looks like there the way forward

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

so if a poacher is on property other that there own there fair game ,if you have the rights.

Nope. You need the permission to film as well as the shooting permission. Just because you suspect someone's breaking the law doesn't give you leave to break it yourself.

I mean, see it from the landowner's point of view - some stranger walks up to them and hands them a photo saying "I photographed this lad in your back yard, I reckon he's poaching". Unless you know the landowner and have their permission (and you might not if you're in the local gun club and he just signed permission over to the club without knowing everyone in it), you're going to wind up doing a bit of explaining and possibly in hotter water than that if the landowner's not happy with the idea of being watched...

i know coillte are giving permission for the use of trail cams to help stop poaching .

I think that might just be a formality - Coillte land isn't private land, it's state land. I don't think taking a photograph on it would require permission (though being there might). But, like I said earlier, ask a solicitor...

the county councils are using them and the like to catch dumpers ,looks like there the way forward

Yup. Next thing you know, we'll be in the UK, with more CCTV cameras than people and no idea who has access to the footage and living in a panopticon...

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

Nope. You need the permission to film as well as the shooting permission. Just because you suspect someone's breaking the law doesn't give you leave to break it yourself.

I mean, see it from the landowner's point of view - some stranger walks up to them and hands them a photo saying "I photographed this lad in your back yard, I reckon he's poaching". Unless you know the landowner and have their permission (and you might not if you're in the local gun club and he just signed permission over to the club without knowing everyone in it), you're going to wind up doing a bit of explaining and possibly in hotter water than that if the landowner's not happy with the idea of being watched...


I think that might just be a formality - Coillte land isn't private land, it's state land. I don't think taking a photograph on it would require permission (though being there might). But, like I said earlier, ask a solicitor...


Yup. Next thing you know, we'll be in the UK, with more CCTV cameras than people and no idea who has access to the footage and living in a panopticon...

rights thats all rights to film etc .

coillte was state land not any more .

yup , would that be a bad thing

cavan shooter

I Know many lads that shoot deer, and the problem with poaching is real in certain areas including around me in Cavan, However I also lamp foxes at night and last year there was a hint floating around that anyone out with a lamp is up to now good and this started to annoy me:mad:

The problem you have with noting suspicious cars people etc, your into the area of guilty until proven innocent approach, and now you have brought the law into it who tend to react first then think. The last so called poacher around me was a lad who was refused permission to hunt deer on certain land but did it anyway (without the lamp BTW)

There are better ways to deal with it, local knowledge is key and, as we have done a quiet word with the guards and the ranger works a treat.

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

rights thats all rights to film etc .

If you have them, you're sound - I'm just saying make sure you have them, a photo of your back yard from someone is enough of a shock to get someone acting irrationally.

coillte was state land not any more .

Different ball of fish so.

yup , would that be a bad thing

Very much so. Compared to the controls in the UK, few as they are, we're even more exposed.

It wasn't me!

cavan shooter wrote: »

The last so called poacher around me was a lad who was refused permission to hunt deer on certain land but did it anyway (without the lamp BTW)

See, that's still poaching. Nothing "so-called" about it.

johngalway

cavan shooter wrote: »

However I also lamp foxes at night and last year there was a hint floating around that anyone out with a lamp is up to now good and this started to annoy me:mad:

That's been circulated over this way as well, and if memory serves me it may have been commented on in one publication or another.

cavan shooter

It wasn't me! wrote: »

See, that's still poaching. Nothing "so-called" about it.

fixed and removed so called maybe should use term "damn poocher":D

custom 7mm08

hello to all this may be a stupid question but what do you need to report a person to the relevant powers that be. i know of a person that has said he is going to shoot ground that i am a member of in the munster area. what can be done. all advice would be appreciated

Tackleberrywho

custom 7mm08 wrote: »

hello to all this may be a stupid question but what do you need to report a person to the relevant powers that be. i know of a person that has said he is going to shoot ground that i am a member of in the munster area. what can be done. all advice would be appreciated

If he has permission nothing, if not report to landowner. If you see a crime being commited you are duty bound to report it.

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

........If you see a crime being commited you are duty bound to report it.

Please expand on this statement for me

jwshooter

i e mailed some of the groups involved with deer yesterday .

wild deer ireland got back to me , i had a long conversation with there chairman last nite .

there is some links on there web site that might be of interest ,they look like there getting the ball rolling with regard to commercial poaching .

http://www.wilddeerireland.com/report-crime.html

they also have a page on facebook

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

Please expand on this statement for me

If I saw someone robbing your car, and I said or did nothing, I am as guilty as the thieves.

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

If I saw someone robbing your car, and I said or did nothing, I am as guilty as the thieves.

Guilty of what? under what law? Where does it state I'm duty bound to report/prevent a suspected crime?

reddeer1

In the process of prosecuting 2 chancers from last years season. Would gladly prosecute more. These people are dangerous with their action to the wider community and law abiding hunters. Poaching for the pot my ass, poaching for the pocket more like it. And too tight to pay even a small fee to enjoy their sport legitamitly. Good advice from JW. Prepare yourself to keep potential discrepancies regarding proof of illegal activity to a minimum.

I also find it amazing that ppl that have been found in breach of the wildlife act will still get a licence issued in the next season. I spose NPWS look at it, not guilty until proven in a court of law. A joke if you ask me.

bunny shooter

reddeer1 wrote: »

In the process of prosecuting 2 chancers from last years season. Would gladly prosecute more. These people are dangerous with their action to the wider community and law abiding hunters. Poaching for the pot my ass, poaching for the pocket more like it. And too tight to pay even a small fee to enjoy their sport legitamitly. Good advice from JW. Prepare yourself to keep potential discrepancies regarding proof of illegal activity to a minimum.

I also find it amazing that ppl that have been found in breach of the wildlife act will still get a licence issued in the next season. I spose NPWS look at it, not guilty until proven in a court of law. A joke if you ask me.

Come on :rolleyes: So you're in the "give 'em a fair trial and then hang 'em" school of justice

If they are convicted by a court of law revoke their firearms & hunting licences. Otherwise we end up in a vigilante situation. NPWS are not judge & jury

Sparks

bunny shooter wrote: »

Guilty of what? under what law? Where does it state I'm duty bound to report/prevent a suspected crime?

It doesn't, Tackleberry's wrong from the legal viewpoint as we don't have good Samaritan laws in Ireland - you have to take an active part in abetting the crime to be charged with it.

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

they look like there getting the ball rolling with regard to commercial poaching .
http://www.wilddeerireland.com/report-crime.html

Hmmm.

We will only accept completed and signed questionnaires, and on the basis that a suspected Wildlife Crime has taken place against a protected species. The Wild Deer Association of Ireland of Ireland, will forward the questionnaire on your behalf to the relevant authorities. Having done so, we will not enter into any further discussion, correspondence or representation on the complainants behalf or their representatives. We do not accept liability or make any judgement, on the contents of any questionnaire received. In addition, after submitting the questionnaire we strongly advise you still contact the relevant authority, if you suspect a Wildlife Crime has taken place.

That's not much use. All you're doing is sending them a copy - you're still doing the legwork (and taking on the legal liability) yourself. They won't even accept the responsibility of forwarding on your complaint. They might as well just put up the questionnaire as an example of how to fill out a report and then abandon it.

It wasn't me!

Sparks wrote: »

Hmmm.



That's not much use. All you're doing is sending them a copy - you're still doing the legwork (and taking on the legal liability) yourself. They won't even accept the responsibility of forwarding on your complaint. They might as well just put up the questionnaire as an example of how to fill out a report and then abandon it.

To be fair, if you take it as being such, it's pretty handy. A limited initiative, but a useful one.

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

Tackleberry's wrong from the legal viewpoint

:eek:

Sparks

It wasn't me! wrote: »

To be fair, if you take it as being such, it's pretty handy. A limited initiative, but a useful one.

If the people using it understand how exposed they are from the get-go, that'd be one thing; but I don't think they would. Send a report to the WDI like that and it's arguable that you've defamed the subject of the report because you didn't go to the police, but told a third party who's stated openly that they're not taking any active role in the proceedings.

If they were taking an active role, then the complainant would be following a set procedure; but here, they're injecting themselves into the proceedings as an eavesdropper, in effect, and I think they're exposing the complainants to unnecessary liability as a result.

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

:eek:

Be fair - he's perfectly right from the moral and ethical standpoint, according to most ethics codes...

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

It doesn't, Tackleberry's wrong from the legal viewpoint as we don't have good Samaritan laws in Ireland - you have to take an active part in abetting the crime to be charged with it.

I know that but he doesn't obviously

Sparks

bunny shooter wrote: »

I know that but he doesn't obviously

So stop being snarky and "setting traps" and just spit it out allready :rolleyes:

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

So stop being snarky and "setting traps" and just spit it out allready :rolleyes:

Little trick I picked up from you

Sparks

bunny shooter wrote: »

Little trick I picked up from you

Moi?
Subtle?
Puh-lease.

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

If the people using it understand how exposed they are from the get-go, that'd be one thing; but I don't think they would. Send a report to the WDI like that and it's arguable that you've defamed the subject of the report because you didn't go to the police, but told a third party who's stated openly that they're not taking any active role in the proceedings.

If they were taking an active role, then the complainant would be following a set procedure; but here, they're injecting themselves into the proceedings as an eavesdropper, in effect, and I think they're exposing the complainants to unnecessary liability as a result.

sparks , i keep a log of vehicles i seen on patrol or stalking as do some others ,info is passed on to the gardai/npws .A data base of names is built up .so much so when one was seen heading out ,a call is made and men watch out .this works well ,but if every stalker did the same it would make life easy .

the hole idea is to be pro active .

stalkers in the seleve bloom have started doing the same ,a group has been formed .

jwshooter

bunny shooter wrote: »

Little trick I picked up from you

never :eek: