Poll - Ivana Bacik vs Idon'tvanna Bacik

Morlar

Poll

Simple poll question -

would you support the introduction of gender quotas for political candidates in general elections in Ireland ?


'Ivana Bacik' - yes I support introducing quotas

'Idon'tvanna Bacik' - No I do not support quotas


Ivana Bacik's justification for this :

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0805/1224276242523.html


Personally i think the best person should get the nomination fairly and squarely based on merit and not selected on the basis that they are female.

There is a serious thread on this in both politics and ladies lounge so this is just a quick poll for ah.

I thought about this as a policy when I was creating the poll and I was tempted to include only one choice to illustrate the fact - ie if I had only included one option in the choice - ie 'Vote No to quotas' that would not force you to vote that way it would just remove your choice to artificially increase the numbers.

WindSock

Filling quotas only harbours resentment. I would rather they just looked at the bigger picture offered some solutions as to why there is an under representation of women to be honest.

Morlar

Let's all be mature here and just ignore that little typo in the poll question. Ahem.

Cheap Thrills!

NO I do not support quotas, we have enough useless politicians as it is. The best person for the job gets the job. End of.

Survival of the fittest and all that, if they aren't strong enough to get the position by themselves then they shouldn't be doing the job. It's a meritocracy or at least it should be.

The only reason we have that stupid cnut Mary Cockup in the position she's in is because in his warped wisdom Clowen thought it would bring the female vote. Quite the fcuking opposite, she's an embarassment to women everywhere. That is an example of what will happen if quota's are brought in.

We need radical reform to reduce the bloated Governmental system NOT further complicate it. We have enough bureaucracy.

seamus

It would be basically the same as telling private companies that their appointees to the board must be 50/50. Companies will suffer because the best candidates (male or female) may be blocked soley due to their sex.

Likewise, if we have a 50% quota, then it's perfectly conceivable that in a two-seat constituency you will have a woman (or man) appointed who was not democratically elected.

I would be in favour of experimentally implementing this at the local level for a single term to see what happens. I think our economy's still too screwed though to be implementing experimental political changes.

Trashbat

Morlar wrote: »

Personally i think the best person should get the nomination fairly and squarely based on merit

Not a possibility with the nepotistic nature of the major political parties in Ireland.

In fact, I think birthright is far more of a hinderance to entering politics and being a representative in Ireland than Gender will ever be.

How about a quota to saying a certain percentage of TD's must not be related to the person who previously held the seat?

In regards to gender, positive discrimination is never a good thing, but it only exists because there is a problem with equal representation in society.

fontanalis

No, a person should be a politician based on their surname.

ejmaztec

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

The best person for the job should get gets the job. End of.

fixed.

Tabnabs

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

The best person for the job gets the job. End of.

Oh, how I laughed!

If it put an end to the cronyism, expected entitlement due to lineage and parish pump politics then I would warmly welcome it.

Kasabian

Morlar wrote: »

Let's all be mature here and just ignore that little typo in the poll question. Ahem.

Sorry I can't ignore it. Makes a mockery of the Poll.

ejmaztec

Ivana's a scary one.:eek:

http://ireland16days.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/ivana-bacik.jpg

Degag

I personally agree with gender quotas..... about 0% would be just fine!:D

I joke!

Sykk

Doesn't she have something better to do, like make me a sandwich?

Chuchoter

Yes, although I don't agree with the idea of someone getting a spot for their gender, our level of women TDs is so bad something needed to be done about it. If we were any other country with a reasonable number of female politicians I'd disagree with it.

Morlar

Kasabian wrote: »

Sorry I can't ignore it. Makes a mockery of the Poll.

Could have been worse I suppose - I could have used a quota principle in the 'poll question selection' so that people would have to make the correct choice or none at all. That would be democratic right ? ?

Kasabian

Morlar wrote: »

Could have been worse I suppose - I could have used a quota principle in the 'poll question selection' so that people would have to make the correct choice or none at all. That would be democratic right ? ?

as democratic as what is up there

Biggins

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

NO I do not support quotas, we have enough useless politicians as it is. The best person for the job gets the job. End of.

Survival of the fittest and all that, if they aren't strong enough to get the position by themselves then they shouldn't be doing the job. It's a meritocracy or at least it should be.

The only reason we have that stupid cnut Mary Cockup in the position she's in is because in his warped wisdom Clowen thought it would bring the female vote. Quite the fcuking opposite, she's an embarrassment to women everywhere. That is an example of what will happen if quota's are brought in.

We need radical reform to reduce the bloated Governmental system NOT further complicate it. We have enough bureaucracy.

Thanks. You said what I was thinking too.
I Agree.

oppenheimer1

Poll is confusing. I don't support quotas in any shape or form. Ivana the TCD senator, for all she has come out with in the past, is one I cannot take seriously anymore.


Gets popcorn, awaits Degsys reply.

fontanalis

Ivana Bacik supporting it is the best reason not to.

Stinicker

No I am against quotas, a woman should make her own career in politics on her own two feet not by some archaic quota system.

ejmaztec

Stinicker wrote: »

No I am against quotas, a woman should make her own career in politics on her own two feet not by some archaic quota system.

...and then, only as far as being Minister for Cakes.

Biggins

ejmaztec wrote: »

...and then, only as far as being Minister for Cakes.

:pac:

...I think your crusin' for brusin' :pac:

Morlar

ejmaztec wrote: »

...and then, only as far as being Minister for Cakes.

Some day we will have a thread that doesn't mention mary harney. . . . Some day . . .. . .

ejmaztec

Biggins wrote: »

:pac:

...I think your crusin' for brusin' :pac:

I was going to say Current Affairs, but some people like their cakes neat.:P

Biggins

ejmaztec wrote: »

I was going to say Current Affairs, but some people like their cakes neat.:P

Doh! :pac:
Very good.

ejmaztec

Morlar wrote: »

Some day we will have a thread that doesn't mention mary harney. . . . Some day . . .. . .

I was thinking of giving her a mention, but you beat me to it.:pac:

Morlar

ejmaztec wrote: »

I was thinking of giving her a mention, but you beat me to it.:pac:

About the quota system - if it was introduced and we were aiming at 50% women then I think harney should count for at least 5 x female td's anyway. Green party female td's should count for x 7 for being doubly annoying as well.

Anyway looks like the people have spoken and the jury is in.

9-1 opposed to quotas.

This just leaves the question of when they are to be introduced.

billy the squid

bacik is a thread to democracy with crazy ass ideas like this.

Could it be that the low numbers of women in politics might have something to do with the fact that fewer women are interested in politics.

All a quota might do is increase ms bacik's chances of getting her arse on a seat in the Dail.

ElaElaElano

It's discriminatory action against discrimination- in other words stupid. There are enough excellent female politicians in Ireland for this to be completely unnecessary- in my home constituency two of four seats routinely go to two women, why, because they've built up a reputation over the years as hard working politicians, not hard working women.

It opens too much opportunity for patronising and belittlement of women. A quota such as this could conceivably be a step backward for 'gender equality'.

Biggins

I think any decent hard working female would prefer to get a job/role on the back of their own hard work/efforts.
Not just only because she might just fill a quota.

Lord knows an adoption of a quota system as mentioned by the OP, would lead to breathing a general felling of bitterness, resentment amid fellow peers and would possibly formulate into outright lashing out acimony at one another.

Morlar

Biggins wrote: »

I think any decent hard working female would prefer to get a job/role on the back of their own hard work/efforts.
Not just only because she might just fill a quota.

Lord knows an adoption of a quota system as mentioned by the OP, would lead to breathing a general felling of bitterness, resentment amid fellow peers and would possibly formulate into outright lashing out acimony at one another.

I wonder if we will see this trickle down to other areas of society, for example would boards.ie follow suit if this is introduced for politicians ?

A quote on the number female posters in soc-politics ?

ie men can only post there if an equal number of women post.

So one post by a male poster can only be followed by a female poster until a woman posts there men will be locked out. If the population is roughly 50% female and 50% male then this is surely the fair way to do redress this unfair imbalance ?

SeaFields

Policial representatives should be there on merit. Becasue of a proven ability and aptitude for the work involved and the ambition to make it a better society for all citizens.

They should not be there on the basis that they do or do not have a penis, are from an ethnic minority, are a certain age, etc etc.

And most especially, and most relevant to todays Dail, they should not be there because of who daddy is. :rolleyes:

Kiwi_knock

Maybe a quota would be a good idea if we had good decent women politicians that can not get into the Dáil. I do not think that this is the case. Any of the good women politicians are in the Dáil already so there is no need to pollute the Dáil with average politicians. Some of the women that are in local politicians are only suited for that and would struggle to adapt to serving a larger number of constituents nationwide.

ejmaztec

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Maybe a quota would be a good idea if we had good decent women politicians that can not get into the Dáil. I do not think that this is the case. Any of the good women politicians are in the Dáil already so there is no need to pollute the Dáil with average politicians. Some of the women that are in local politicians are only suited for that and would struggle to adapt to serving a larger number of constituents nationwide.

Which one is she?

Biggins

ejmaztec wrote: »

Which one is she?

The one popping in and out to do the baking and check on the oven?

Degsy

She's a cnunt that one.

Minstrel27

A great idea for women everywhere who cannot get elected.

Michael Doherty

Quotas but just for a while...

ejmaztec

Degsy wrote: »

She's a cnunt that one.

There's no need to hold back.



:pac:

Biggins

ejmaztec wrote: »

There's no need to hold back.

:pac:

I got that impression too that he was a bit reserved to say what he feels. :pac:

johngalway

It's a stupid and undemocratic idea. If there were women candidates with a good enough rapport with the electorate they would get the votes enabling them to enter the Dail. Obviously there aren't.

Suck it up Ivanna.

Terry

First off this is sexist. It promotes women ahead of men, even if the men are more qualified.
It's also a form of affirmative action, which tends to end badly with militants using it as a power base.

The sad thing about politics is that a lot of getting elected depends on smooth talking. You only need to look at Bertie to see that.
With the smooth talking, the better person for the job may be the one to lose out to the charmer. It's just unfortunate for their competitors that the sleazy fecker can so easily fool the electorate.

ejmaztec

Biggins wrote: »

I got that impression too that he was a bit reserved to say what he feels. :pac:

Probably got a restraining order.

johngalway

Terry wrote: »

The sad thing about politics is that a lot of getting elected depends on smooth talking. You only need to look at Bertie to see that.
With the smooth talking, the better person for the job may be the one to lose out to the charmer. It's just unfortunate for their competitors that the sleazy fecker can so easily fool the electorate.

Which is why I said "rapport" and not "policies"

Biggins

ejmaztec wrote: »

Probably got a restraining order.

I think if he runs into her, he'll be getting his marching orders! :pac:

biko

Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Iceland, Netherlands and Germany had all reached the 30% goal of parliamentary seats taken by women by the end of 2002 along with Argentina, Costa Rica, South Africa and Mozambique. According to UNIFEM's report 'Progress of the World's Women 2002' these states had met the target through quota systems. Despite these gains, however, women still accounted for only about 14% of members of parliament worldwide in 2002.

Despite the fact that women constitute 51 per cent of the population, they make up just 13 per cent of the Dail and 16 per cent of local councils.

Ireland = Scandinavia in the 50s.

Morlar

biko wrote: »

Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Iceland, Netherlands and Germany had all reached the 30% goal of parliamentary seats taken by women by the end of 2002 along with Argentina, Costa Rica, South Africa and Mozambique. According to UNIFEM's report 'Progress of the World's Women 2002' these states had met the target through quota systems. Despite these gains, however, women still accounted for only about 14% of members of parliament worldwide in 2002.

Despite the fact that women constitute 51 per cent of the population, they make up just 13 per cent of the Dail and 16 per cent of local councils.

Ireland = Scandinavia in the 50s.

Where does it say that 50% female population mean 50% of TD's shoudl therefore be female ?

50% female population - do you think that 50% of the posters in politics forum are female ?

If not do you think we need a quota system to redress that imbalance ?

No one has explained how 50% female population ought to translate into 50% female TD's. Nor have they explained how the non 50% female is a problem or a bad thing or how increasing the levels of female participation will necessarily be a good thing.

sron

fontanalis wrote: »

No, a person should be a politician based on their surname.

Beverly? Sure wasn't her father great. She'll get my first.

MonkeyDoo

Ivana Penis! She even studies Penology! She seems very uncomfortable being a woman and wants to collectively punish males for her inadequacies.

orourkeda

Morlar wrote: »

Poll

Simple poll question -

would you support the introduction of gender quotas for political candidates in general elections in Ireland ?


'Ivana Bacik' - yes I support introducing quotas

'Idon'tvanna Bacik' - No I do not support quotas


Ivana Bacik's justification for this :

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0805/1224276242523.html


Personally i think the best person should get the nomination fairly and squarely based on merit and not selected on the basis that they are female.

There is a serious thread on this in both politics and ladies lounge so this is just a quick poll for ah.

I thought about this as a policy when I was creating the poll and I was tempted to include only one choice to illustrate the fact - ie if I had only included one option in the choice - ie 'Vote No to quotas' that would not force you to vote that way it would just remove your choice to artificially increase the numbers.

Women are either elected on their merits or they shouldn't get elected at all. Their gender is irrelevant

I'd very much like to think that the irish electorate are intelligent enough to look beyond something like gender.

Captain_Generic

ejmaztec wrote: »

Ivana's a scary one.:eek:

http://ireland16days.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/ivana-bacik.jpg

http://www.yourtownisnext.com/vigo.jpg