Why wont people fold a buggy when the bus comes

dandruff_ie

I have seen it so many times so why wont men and women fold there buggy when the bus arrives that has a buggy on it - they would rather spend time arguing with the driver where they would have had it folded in half the time

when my kids were small no buses were low floor and we had to fold buggy while holding child and shopping

but now a days all you see is stops full of people waiting for a bus without a buggy on it

Ruu_Old

Ah but what about poor little Johnny!?!? :eek::mad:

ALL men and women with buggies are bastards.

JohnDee

Unfortunately it stems from the horrid sense of entitlement that seems to be endemic in this country of ours.

So it seems to me at any rate...:rolleyes:

ironictoaster

Laziness.

IvySlayer

Cos there's usually a baby or a child in it.

NoHornJan

Looking for attention.

I know a lot of women who won't open their purse until they are at the top of the queue ,
with a long queue behind them and then they start looking for coins. It makes me mad. That includes buggies..

oppenheimer1

The people in wheelchairs are worse. You have to wait for the driver to lower the ramp, them to wheel themselves on, find a spot and then lift the ramp. Same craic getting off too. Takes forever.

wolfpawnat

Several reasons for this :

1. there may not be a buggy on it and they dont want to fold the buggy unnecessarily.

2. They may have a large awkward buggy that is difficult to fold, not easy to do with a newborn!

3. They may be a ballsy person who thinks regardless of whether or not there is a buggy they should be allowed to get on anyway (these are usually certain nationality women and skobies with a 4 year old in a buggy for some unknown reason!)

4. It may be a twin buggy, thats a nightmare on several levels!!!!:eek:

5. I have seen bus drivers tell a women to fold a buggy, and when she is folding it outside the bus, he then proceeds to close the door and drive off leaving her at the side of the road.

I myself think that anyone with a easy fold buggy with a child old enough to walk safely should fold their buggy anyway, there may be a woman with a very young child just down the road that should be allowed on.

orourkeda

IvySlayer wrote: »

Cos there's usually a baby or a child in it.

And is there the possibility that said baby could be removed from same.

biko

Let's ask the parents.
From After Hours.

metrovelvet

Before my son could walk I avoided the bus for this reason.

Because its impossible, for me anyway, to fold a buggy and hold a baby at the same time. Plus if the bus is crowded, you have to hold the baby and the buggy and manage not to kill yourself and the baby, not get pick pocketed, not fall on people, while the bus is in motion.

So...i imagine that's why they dont fold the buggy.

lynski

dandruff_ie wrote: »

I have seen it so many times so why wont men and women fold there buggy when the bus arrives that has a buggy on it - they would rather spend time arguing with the driver where they would have had it folded in half the time

when my kids were small no buses were low floor and we had to fold buggy while holding child and shopping

but now a days all you see is stops full of people waiting for a bus without a buggy on it

tell you what, why dont you get try it? Take a squirming 12 mth old who weighs over a stone, hold them under one arm and try to fold a pushchair, hold on to your nappy bag - cause some skanger could steal it while you are folding, then try to climb 3 steps, pay a driver and carry said squirming child and buggy to a part of the bus that you can fit.
when you have tried it you might have a little bit of insight.

irishgrover

back in the day, when I were a young lad, a buggy was used to transport your babies/toddlers....
kind of like a mini deckchair with wheels, basically a bit of canvas material with a folding mechanism. To fold, one would remove the child, and then the buggy would collapse in an instant, removing any digits left in the way...

These days, people push their kids around in integrated travel systems, with independent suspension, trays, cup holders, integrated car seats, breakdown kits, with pump, tyre gauge, multiple storage solutions for child and parent.
In order to fold these f*(kers down you need to have

• a 2nd person to hold your child as you attempt to fold the fecking thing
• a 3rd (and possible 4th person) to hold all of the phones, mp3 players, groceries, baby cups, shopping, baby bags etc, that you need to take out of the the buggy before it will fold
• a degree in mechanical engineering
• extreme dexterity and strength, to simultaneously release the footcatch, pull of the level on the left hand side, and push and rotate the safety lever on the right had side, in order to get it to fold
• Then once the folding procedure is complete you realise that these frigging things weight > 25kg and when folded is impossible to move

Knine

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The people in wheelchairs are worse. You have to wait for the driver to lower the ramp, them to wheel themselves on, find a spot and then lift the ramp. Same craic getting off too. Takes forever.

I hope you never find yourself having to use a wheelchair with that attitude. If I was using the bus with my child and didn't fold the buggy it would be because my child who looks normal can't walk ie she has special needs and can't be held on my lap either so never judge a book by it's cover.

Davidth88

Knine wrote: »

I hope you never find yourself having to use a wheelchair with that attitude. If I was using the bus with my child and didn't fold the buggy it would be because my child who looks normal can't walk ie she has special needs and can't be held on my lap either so never judge a book by it's cover.

To be fair , that was posted while the thread was in AH...


I agree with lynski..... it ain't easy .

We had a very simple Maclaran , still not easy

Knine

I guess some of these experts in childcare should wait until they actully have a child themselves and use public transport before they preach about why people don't fold buggies on a bus. It us one of the main reasons I have a car!

dandruff_ie

lynski wrote: »

tell you what, why dont you get try it? Take a squirming 12 mth old who weighs over a stone, hold them under one arm and try to fold a pushchair, hold on to your nappy bag - cause some skanger could steal it while you are folding, then try to climb 3 steps, pay a driver and carry said squirming child and buggy to a part of the bus that you can fit.
when you have tried it you might have a little bit of insight.

I guess you did not read all that I said

" when my kids were small no buses were low floor and we had to fold buggy while holding child and shopping "

been there have a few T shirts and it is very easy it can be done getting into a car or a house

How Strange

I'll prob avoid using the bus with my baby for these reasons. I saw one mum with her baby try to get her baby, her folded buggy and a change bag off the bus. Everyone stood around, watched and wouldn't even step out of her way never mind offering to help her. Prob because I'm pregnant now so more aware of these things I carried the buggy off the bus for her. It weighed a ton.

Tabnabs

Luas FTW!

scorpioishere

NoHornJan wrote: »

Looking for attention.

I know a lot of women who won't open their purse until they are at the top of the queue ,
with a long queue behind them and then they start looking for coins. It makes me mad. That includes buggies..

I totally agree with u. They like to get attention.

scorpioishere

Knine wrote: »

I guess some of these experts in childcare should wait until they actully have a child themselves and use public transport before they preach about why people don't fold buggies on a bus. It us one of the main reasons I have a car!

Good, one less on the road but still.....

Chuchoter

I hate buggys. Everywhere. Especially horribly crowded places like Ikea: carry the kid or don't bring it! One day I'm going to invent a really tiny really lightweight buggy for small babies and make a killing.

lynski

dandruff_ie wrote: »

I guess you did not read all that I said

" when my kids were small no buses were low floor and we had to fold buggy while holding child and shopping "

been there have a few T shirts and it is very easy it can be done getting into a car or a house

apologies, i was more replying to some of the replies. couple of things have changed in the last decade or so - more traffic making letting go a toddler, even for a second a lot more dangerous; people less willing to help strangers; impatient bus drivers; i am not sure if this is a change, but the city is filthy in a lot places, so you would not put down a non-walking child; also you would not put your shopping down in a lot of places either, cause it would get robbed;
I have only done public transport in Dublin 4 or 5 times since having children, first couple of times no bother at all, walked on and off buses then after one particularly hellish trip I have not been inclined again. A sleeping 2yr old weighing over 2 stone and folding a pushchair, with a handbag and nappybag (cause you got to have nappies, food, change of clothes etc for a day out), and noone offering any assistance, just getting ticked off, was not my idea of how to travel.
London and the tube was far more enjoyable and we got a lot more help!

Bill2673

JohnDee wrote: »

Unfortunately it stems from the horrid sense of entitlement that seems to be endemic in this country of ours.

So it seems to me at any rate...:rolleyes:

Everything, at the end of the day, boils down to "....and its just typical of this bloody country"....

dandruff_ie wrote: »

I guess you did not read all that I said

" when my kids were small no buses were low floor and we had to fold buggy while holding child and shopping "

been there have a few T shirts and it is very easy it can be done getting into a car or a house

Our buggy doesn't fold up.....what ya want me to do.....so you had a foldeable buggy and you could fold it up, well done here's a medal to pin on your teeshirts.

Nevyn

Please remember civil posting is expected on this forum.

dandruff_ie

lynski wrote: »

apologies, i was more replying to some of the replies. couple of things have changed in the last decade or so - more traffic making letting go a toddler, even for a second a lot more dangerous; people less willing to help strangers; impatient bus drivers; i am not sure if this is a change, but the city is filthy in a lot places, so you would not put down a non-walking child; also you would not put your shopping down in a lot of places either, cause it would get robbed;
I have only done public transport in Dublin 4 or 5 times since having children, first couple of times no bother at all, walked on and off buses then after one particularly hellish trip I have not been inclined again. A sleeping 2yr old weighing over 2 stone and folding a pushchair, with a handbag and nappybag (cause you got to have nappies, food, change of clothes etc for a day out), and noone offering any assistance, just getting ticked off, was not my idea of how to travel.
London and the tube was far more enjoyable and we got a lot more help!

point taken

phasers

I've noticed a recent trend of people putting a second buggy in the space. I don't know why the drivers allow it, it looks really unsafe!

I got on the bus with my nephew a couple of times and it was grand, the buggy's really easy to fold with one hand. Unlike the bloody travel system he used to need when he was smaller, you had to take off the seat, remove the raincover and bag from the back, fold up the wheels and somehow get all that crap on the bus!

I can understand why people wait until the bus arrives to get stuff folded. Plus it's easier to have the child in the buggy at the side of the road than trying to hold everything and keep them under control!

stovelid

I avoid the bus like the plague with a child, shopping and buggy for the reasons mentioned. Some parents don't have the luxury of a car though.

I must confess that I never talked about these things much before I had to do it mysefl though as I would have been far too emabrassed anout not knowing what I was talking about.

katie99

NoHornJan wrote: »

Looking for attention.

I know a lot of women who won't open their purse until they are at the top of the queue ,
with a long queue behind them and then they start looking for coins. It makes me mad. That includes buggies..

It's a pet hate of mine. You patiently stand in line, and the person, usually a woman at the top of the queue waits until she's on the bus before opening her bag, rummaging for her purse, then pulling loose change from her purse and counting the exact amount required before putting it down the shut. She then closes her purse, places it in her bag, and only then takes her ticket while the rest of us get soaking. Selfish, thoughtless.

katie99

How Strange wrote: »

I'll prob avoid using the bus with my baby for these reasons. I saw one mum with her baby try to get her baby, her folded buggy and a change bag off the bus. Everyone stood around, watched and wouldn't even step out of her way never mind offering to help her. Prob because I'm pregnant now so more aware of these things I carried the buggy off the bus for her. It weighed a ton.

Well I did my good deed on Sunday. I was coming out of town on the bus and a lady got on with her buggy and baby, and two bags. I walked down to her and offered to fold her buggy for her. She thanked me profusely.

She was alighting the bus and I did the same thing again, took her buggy for her and opened it. She was delighted and thanked me again. As I got back on the bus, the driver said absolutely nothing. Nor did anyone else. Some able bodied men and women on the downstairs of the bus pretended to be looking out the window rather than acknowledge my charitable act of the day.

katie99

lynski wrote: »

apologies, i was more replying to some of the replies. couple of things have changed in the last decade or so - more traffic making letting go a toddler, even for a second a lot more dangerous; people less willing to help strangers; impatient bus drivers; i am not sure if this is a change, but the city is filthy in a lot places, so you would not put down a non-walking child; also you would not put your shopping down in a lot of places either, cause it would get robbed;
I have only done public transport in Dublin 4 or 5 times since having children, first couple of times no bother at all, walked on and off buses then after one particularly hellish trip I have not been inclined again. A sleeping 2yr old weighing over 2 stone and folding a pushchair, with a handbag and nappybag (cause you got to have nappies, food, change of clothes etc for a day out), and noone offering any assistance, just getting ticked off, was not my idea of how to travel.
London and the tube was far more enjoyable and we got a lot more help!

I think some people are reluctant help mums with babies and buggys in case the mother tells them to get lost.

Nevyn

Nothing wrong with asking "Can I give you a hand?"
I think people just don't do so any more which is sad.

How Strange

Interesting article in today's Irish times about how child and buggy unfriendly our society is. I can't post a link because I'm posting from NMR phone but maybe someone else could put it up.

Nevyn

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2010/0812/1224276629981.html

This is no country for young kids

Plenty of places in Ireland pay lip service to child-friendliness, but the reality is often very different. Parents from around the country share their experiences with Edel Morgan

I WAS kneeling on the hard, cold toilet floor of a gastropub in Dublin city centre changing my one-year-old’s nappy. I hadn’t noticed any “children not particularly welcome” sign, but that seemed to be the general message. Apart from the lack of a baby-changing table, the kids’ menu was “just sausages”.

On the way home from a previous day out with my three small children, a succession of buses refused to let us on board because they already had their quota of buggies. When we finally got on one it was packed, and the designated seat was taken, so I spent the journey warning my live-wire sons, aged five and three, to hold on to the handrail. All day I’d been dependent on the kindness of strangers to open doors and help negotiate steps. By the time I got home I was so exhausted I just wanted to lie down in a dark room.

If you’re thinking it all sounds a bit dramatic, and an example of the insular concerns of someone in the parent bubble, then I’m guessing you’ve never had to deal with the logistics of taking small children out in an urban setting. Many of the parents I spoke to said they tend to stick to places they know are easy to negotiate. All but one have had bad experiences travelling on public transport with their children.

Galway parent Barbara Dunne, who is co-ordinator of Steiner na Gaillimhe parent and child group says it can be tough getting around the city with a double buggy on bad footpaths, with cars parked where footpaths are lowered, and narrow doorways. “You quickly get a sense of where it’s okay to go and where it’s not,” says Dunne, who has three girls aged 11, four and two. She says she’s had difficulty getting a double buggy through the doors of Galway City Museum, and she wouldn’t even consider going into certain shops. Members of her parents’ group have seen buggies abandoned outside clothes shops. “Most of the group have some sort of backpack or carrier, which they use 80 per cent of the time. It’s also a lifestyle choice and helpful for breastfeeding. The buggy is a secondary option.”

There are a lot of places that pay lip service to being child-friendly but show an astonishing lack of imagination or thought. Hotels and restaurants that assume Irish children eat only chicken goujons and sausages – or, if they are really adventurous, pasta Bolognese. Shops, public amenities and restaurants that target families but don’t provide a buggy store or baby-changing table – or if there is one it’s only in the ladies’ toilets, because it’s assumed men don’t change nappies.

You get to know the subtle, insidious signs that children aren’t welcome: aisles in shops that are too narrow for a baby buggy; stools that are too high for toddlers; tables pushed so close together there’s no space for a buggy.

Ireland’s level of family-friendliness has improved, but largely on the back of legislation requiring access for disabled people. John Graby, director of the Royal Institute of the Architects of Ireland, says that while we’ve come a long way in the last decade, people’s attitudes towards children often depend on where they are in life. “I have a two-year-old grandson, and suddenly I don’t mind toddlers and babies any more, but I did five years ago. It’s also about being a child-tolerant society, but I’m not sure we are yet. In the past 10 years we’ve focused on things such as ramps, kneeling buses and bigger toilets, and people with children have benefited from that, but we need to make buildings accessible across the board, which is the aim by 2015.”

MOTHER OF THREE Marie Keating, who is a member of the Parents Network, a voluntary group based in Waterford who discuss issues affecting parents, says we need to work harder at being an inclusive society. She says Irish cities are built for adults – “and children are expected to fit around that”. She believes the planners think more in terms of sustainability than family-friendliness. “I’m still hauling my six-year-old daughter over sinks to wash her hands, to the detriment of my back, because they are set at quite a high level. I find very few shopping centres have sinks or toilets for children.”

Keating, whose youngest child is two, says there has been a huge increase in the number of public buildings providing baby-changing facilities around Waterford, “but the idea of having a baby-changing area only in the ladies’ toilet is totally discriminatory.”

Dave Dunne from Dublin has two boys, aged three and 20 months. He won’t go into a baby-changing area in a ladies’ toilet to change a nappy. “I’d go to the gents and try to do it in the pushchair. A lot of places assume it’s going to be a woman changing the baby.” He says that where facilities are provided, the public sometimes misuse them. “Last night I went shopping in the local supermarket, and there was one parking spot left for mother and babies and a 50-something woman with no kids took it.” When she was tackled on it she said, “I’m having trouble with me neck”.

Fiona Hanaphy, also from Dublin, says spaces in car parks are usually so tight it’s an ordeal getting her girls – aged five and two – in and out of the car without hitting cars either side. Several parents commented that unless it’s a designated family space, there’s often no room between parked cars to put a baby buggy when you are trying to take a small child and their things out of the car. Hanaphy doesn’t use public transport and says Dublin Bus “is not really child-friendly. You can’t guarantee the times they are going to turn up. You could be standing a long time, and you won’t get people standing up to let you sit down. So if it’s packed you have to fold down the buggy and leave it downstairs and then try to find a seat upstairs. The Luas is easier because it’s on one level.”

In Ireland she only goes to places she knows she can get around easily, such as Dundrum Town Centre, which has a dedicated baby-changing and feeding room and “a fantastic creche”, and Ikea for the creche and “good cheap meals”.

Meanwhile in Finland, where she travels regularly for work, “they are very child-focused and really rate quality of life very highly, and the attitude is that if something needs to be changed then it is changed”.

WEXFORD-BASED Sinéad Fortune has three girls, aged six, four and two. She believes we are far ahead of some continental European countries in terms of lift access in buildings and baby-changing facilities, but agrees the Scandinavians have a lot to teach us.

She also has a Finnish connection – her brother lives there with his wife and two children. “The train system there is fantastic, and they have play carriages with miniature playgrounds, miniature libraries and slides. They think nothing of travelling for five hours on a train to see his wife’s relatives in the North Pole. Even dining carriages have places children can play. The beaches there have changing rooms and shower facilities, and every garage along the road has a toilet. The footpaths are really wide, so they are great for a buggy and you feel very safe. In Wexford some areas are pedestrianised but when they’re not you can be up and down off the footpath.”

She has had mainly positive experiences in restaurants here but says Ireland is “so not breastfeeding-friendly – people just don’t want to know. I was feeding one of mine in Shaws restaurant, and was being very discreet, when a middle-aged man got up and left his food on the table. I suppose if I was confident I’d ignore it, but that just put me off.”

For us to catch up with the Scandinavians, Marie Keating says the Government will have to do more than just pay lip service to being pro-family.

“It makes it look like it’s supporting families, but our political system is so male-dominated we’ve lost out on certain things. They don’t see the things women see who are at the coalface, and there’s a disconnect between community and what is going on in Dáil Éireann.”

LittleBook

On the way home from a previous day out with my three small children, a succession of buses refused to let us on board because they already had their quota of buggies. When we finally got on one it was packed, and the designated seat was taken, so I spent the journey warning my live-wire sons, aged five and three, to hold on to the handrail.

This is exactly the reason I was going to use in defence of people who don't fold their buggies, i.e. because there's a facility on most buses (in Dublin) nowadays so they don't have to fold them!

But the way it's presented in this article makes me see what people are complaining about. There are only a certain number of buggies a bus can take and surely anyone who wants a day out with a child/buggy and all the luggage that that entails would avoid travelling at peak times when the bus would be packed.

Bill2673

I remember once I was struggling to disassemble to buggy with one hand (it breaks down into the carriage part and the wheel & handle part before you fold it up); and hold onto the child with the other; when two very nice, friendly junkies jumped up and said they'd help me. It was a guy and girl, to be fair they were very friendly and good humoured, but they were also high; and when yer man said "she'll hold the baby and we'll fold it up" I was mortified cause there was no way she was holding the baby, but on the other hand they were sound and the only ones who offered to help when I was clearly struggling.....they didn't seem to mind; meself and the bloke ended up folding the thing up while i held the baby.

Bill2673

Thaedydal wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2010/0812/1224276629981.html

Saw the article.....certainly pushing a pram gave me a new appreciation for the difficulties wheel chair users face in getting about. its an interesting point in the end about male-dominated politics.

Bill2673

LittleBook wrote: »

This is exactly the reason I was going to use in defence of people who don't fold their buggies, i.e. because there's a facility on most buses (in Dublin) nowadays so they don't have to fold them!

But the way it's presented in this article makes me see what people are complaining about. There are only a certain number of buggies a bus can take and surely anyone who wants a day out with a child/buggy and all the luggage that that entails would avoid travelling at peak times when the bus would be packed.

Regarding the quota of buggies......the issue here isn't really about what is the peak time for commuters in general; rather what is the peak time for people travelling with buggies. If there is one other person with a buggy, even if the bus is empty, you are not getting on. And there is no peak time, parents travelling with their kids can be going any time of the day.

LittleBook

Bill2673 wrote: »

Regarding the quota of buggies......the issue here isn't really about what is the peak time for commuters in general; rather what is the peak time for people travelling with buggies. If there is one other person with a buggy, even if the bus is empty, you are not getting on. And there is no peak time, parents travelling with their kids can be going any time of the day.

Sure, but I was more referring to the contributors to the article who are talking about the bus being packed (as well as the "quota" being full) and the people who can't understand why a parent would expect to be able to fold their buggies.

Bill2673

Thats fair enough and i agree with you. For example, you wouldn't catch me jumping on the luas at 5pm with a buggy in tow.....I don't think you'd be able to get on.

LittleBook

Bill2673 wrote: »

Thats fair enough and i agree with you. For example, you wouldn't catch me jumping on the luas at 5pm with a buggy in tow.....I don't think you'd be able to get on.

Exactly. I understand completely that there are parents who must rely on public transport to get from home to creche to work, but that's a journey that would be so well practiced and utterly streamlined, I'm not sure it would fall into the current discussion.

Next on the list ... people who STAND in the buggy area when there are seats available and won't move if a buggy gets on!

Moonbeam

I have experience with wheel chairs and buggies and have notice an improvement in recent times for both.
I commute with the child but we get the train which is a lot more pleasant then the bus and I find even when we could drive we take the train just for the convenience .
Irish rail are changing for the better with both.
It does really annoy me when the disabled toilet is the baby changing area though as changing a baby takes ages and not all disabled people have good bladder control.
I have only been on the bus twice with the buggy and both times were very pleasant,there were no wheel chairs and no other buggies so I was able to leave it up in the wheel chair area (huge buggy)
What really annoys me is when people have small children in strollers (light easily folded buggies) and take them out,leave the stroller up and don't move it for another buggy with a baby that would be less easily folded or with a sleeping baby or a wheelchair which of course you can't fold and then are rude when you ask them to.

BostonB

Theres lots of valid (and non vlaid) reasons not to fold a buggy. Thats like asking how long is a piece of string.

Being practical. If the time taken to get onboard is that critical, perhaps you need a different form of transport. Public transport in Ireland IMO is not known for its precision timing.

wolfpawnat

Moonbeam wrote: »

What really annoys me is when people have small children in strollers (light easily folded buggies) and take them out,leave the stroller up and don't move it for another buggy with a baby that would be less easily folded or with a sleeping baby or a wheelchair which of course you can't fold and then are rude when you ask them to.

Something like this happened me the other day. A buggy the same as mine (my choice mothercare one, they are quite big) was in the disability spot as is the norm, but mummy, baby and daddy were at the back of the bus, the driver looked around and saw this and refused to move the bus until the father came down and folded the buggy to make room for ours, as the rule is only an occupied buggy can take that spot, he was like a pitbull but hell, we live ages from town and with an irregular bus service so I was not going to fold my buggy and put my son on my lap unless I really had to!

BostonB wrote: »

Being practical. If the time taken to get onboard is that critical, perhaps you need a different form of transport. Public transport in Ireland IMO is not known for its precision timing.

No buses are not really well timed here (partly because they are taking unregisitered breaks to talk to their mates that are driving on other buses but thats for a different thread, but some of us have no choice but to take buses, I live 40min from a DART station and the Luas is not reaching where I live for at least a few more months and I am lucky to have that coming, not everyone gets that. So really if there is a reason for you to be going around in a bus at peak times, you are in for the time from hell!

What I tend to do leaving town with my buggy, is I go to the first stop of the bus route I am on, it is the only way to guarantee even getting the buggy on, because trying to get it on in the middle of O'Connell street is madness!

BostonB

I kinda assumed the people with buggies wouldn't be stressing over the time it takes someone else to fold a buggy. Thus my comment wasn't really directed at those with buggies.